Author Topic: amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question  (Read 486 times)

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Offline David.t

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amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question
« on: June 02, 2021, 07:16:24 am »
Hi!

I would like some help with a amp connection/ headphones question :)

I am looking for an amp "metal amp", to use at home. Preferably tubes, and not plugins.

Will mostly listen trough headphones. Maybe in the future i can use speakers but that is not the focus of this purchase.

I have been looking for an amp with Headphones out to achieve this, and even better if it has IR on the unit itself.

Recently I have been looking at REVV g20 which ticks all my boxes, even size.

But then i started to get uncertain. I play besides my computer. I have a good audio interface already.

SO...if i get an amp with XLR out, but without headphones out, is it a good solution to plug it in via xlr out to my interface, and connect the headphones to that instead?

And then use IR in the DAW instead?

As i said, the purpose is not to have an amp which is practical to use for an touring musician, just a home player.

Probably a noon question, but hey thats what I am :)

For example, this is the G20 which has everything included on the unit:

https://www.thomann.de/intl/revv_g20_amp_head.htm

And here another amp, whis has XLR but not headphones out:

https://www.thomann.de/intl/engl_e606_ironball_head_20_se.htm


Offline close2u

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Re: amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2021, 09:27:47 am »
Can I suggest a strong press on the pause button.

You want a 20 watt tube amp for massive saturated metal tones ... but in a small room only through headphones.

Stop.

That is crazy.

That much power is wasted or will shake your head off.

Offline close2u

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Re: amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2021, 10:14:13 am »
I guess more helpful might be a suggestion.

For your uses I reckon a much better option and much cheaper option would be a small multi-fx unit that has built in amp and cab sims which you can take a direct headphone feed out of. Some also have usb to feed direct to a computer. Some also have xlr out to feed in to an AI.

There are are many around, some have a million and one bells and whistles, some are basic, streamlined affairs.

Offline David.t

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Re: amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2021, 05:11:36 pm »
Thanks needed to hear that :)

Do you mean something like a Helix?


Offline J.W.C.

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Re: amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2021, 05:40:42 pm »
I am looking for an amp "metal amp", to use at home. Preferably tubes, and not plugins. Will mostly listen trough headphones. Maybe in the future i can use speakers but that is not the focus of this purchase.

First, I love tube amps, and usually prefer them.

However, for what you describe above, I'd say that you don't need a tube amp. You'd be paying a premium for something that you won't be using.

When a tube amp has a headphone jack (or a line out intended to go into a board/mixer/interface) it usually means that the amp has some soft of software processing and simulation for that output. That could be amp simulation/modelling, or IR speaker/cab simulation, or both. In that case, you don't really need the "tube amp" part of the equation. You simply won't be getting the thing that makes a tube amp special: the interaction of all the parts (guitar/cables/pre-amp/power-amp/speaker).

Even if you do end up getting a speaker cabinet and hooking it up to the amp you're looking at 20w tube amp heads. Those will blow the doors out for bedroom playing. For most people, 20w tube amps aren't viable for home use (although it depends on your situation, of course). Usually you won't be able to work the amp hard enough to enjoy the real benefits of the tubes. Tube amps get loud, and they *want* to be loud -- that's where their sweet spot lives. Playing a tube amp with the volume whisper quiet is like driving a V8 muscle car at walking speed. Sure you can do it, but you're not going to see the benefits of driving a V8 muscle car in that situation.

If you're looking at playing through headphones and direct into a interface/computer, I think you'd be better off with a different approach. You're going to be using modeling and IRs and such in any case, so I'd say go with that. Don't worry about the tube amp part: it doesn't really fit your use case.

I'm not super familiar with the latest modeling and digital options, so I'll leave that for others to suggest. But you could get a modeling amp head, or a multi-fx unit of some sort, or a "desktop" modeling amp with appropriate outputs, or even pure software amp sims through your DAW. Given the prices of the amp heads you listed you have a decent budget, so you should have many options. (Heck, if you stretch the budget some more you could even look at something like a Kemper profiler head, which is pro-level stuff that you won't "grow out of" any time soon, if ever...but that might be overkill and too big of a stretch!)

Offline David.t

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Re: amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2021, 09:02:30 pm »
Thanks for the detailed answer!

I get what you are saying.

The thing is i dont find modelers so inspiring.
But thats something for me to get used to :)

That Said, i just tried a plugin to my DAW. Sounds ok, very practical as you Said for Home use

Thanks for ur feedback!

Offline close2u

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Re: amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2021, 09:21:14 pm »
... The thing is i dont find modelers so inspiring ..
I'm not being awkward, I'm genuinely asking ... not inspiring based on what?

And, as a supllementary, have you hear valve amps being played at (for their capabilities and sweet spots) ridiculously low volumes? Some would describe that sort of underuse of a valve amp as uninspiring.

I have a version 1 Zoom G3.
I have it on my desktop not the floor.
It has many great amp / cab sims.
It has usb and xlr connectivity.
It has headphones out.
You can buy them in good condition and good working order for less than £100.

There are other great multi gx units for either floor or desktop use.
Boss GT units are well regarded.
Vox Stomplab too.
And others.

Offline David.t

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Re: amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2021, 07:43:41 am »
I understand now that tube amp is not suitable for my solution, thanks for the help.

I have previously used a boss katana, its not a modeler but it has many functions and so. What i have noticed is i barely tried all the different combinations.

Thats one of the reason i just thought that maybe it would be better for me just to have one amp and just stumbled across tube amps.

But i understand i need to think again, and maybe try a "real" modeler.

Thanks again, and thanks for the suggestions

Offline LievenDV

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Re: amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2021, 09:01:53 am »
Check this other post by the user wyldelife,

He just posted this pro quality video while using a guitar, 1 pedal and 1 pre-amp/Speaker sim pedal (Strymon Iridium)

https://justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg454230#msg454230

This might be the exact kind of setup that would suit you so check it out! :D
my band: fb: Point Fifty | Instagram: Point Fifty

Offline Majik

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Re: amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2021, 09:27:26 am »
I have previously used a boss katana, its not a modeler but it has many functions and so. What i have noticed is i barely tried all the different combinations.

The Katana has an analogue class A/B power amp, but the pre-amp and effects are digitally modelled.

It's a highly versatile amp (as are similar amps from other vendors). Of course you won't use every single combination because there are almost infinite combinations available.

You may think you wouldn't use these but, if you are still a beginner, then you probably will, because learning guitar properly will require you to learn all sorts of styles and techniques, and you won't be using heavy, high-gain tones for all of them.

That is, assuming you want to become a good metal guitar player.

Half of having an electric guitar and amp setup is learning how to use them, and how to create tones and use effects. It's a learning journey in itself and something like the Katana can be part of that journey.

Quote
Thats one of the reason i just thought that maybe it would be better for me just to have one amp and just stumbled across tube amps.

Tube amps are great but,, as J.W.C. points out, they are also extremely loud, unless you get a load-box (extra expense) or you run them at low volumes (assuming the amp can do that), in which case you really aren't driving the tubes and not really getting the best from the amp.

If you are phased (pun intended) by the versatility and options available on something like the Katana, there are loads of more straightforward solid-state, modelling, and hybrid amps out there which still make sense with headphones.

And, if you don't need an actual amp at all, there's the floor/desk style pre-amp/modelling units.

Quote
But i understand i need to think again, and maybe try a "real" modeler.

What do you mean by a "real" modeller? The Katana is a "real" modeller.

A Helix or a Kemper is no more a "real" modeller than a $100 Zoom, or a Boss GT-1, or a Katana, or a Fender Mustang...

I think you need to stop trying to pigeon-hole things so much and start off with what you need from a functional perspective and then look at solutions which fit those needs, and don't worry about  what category or label it might have on it. Then, if you can, audition equipment that you think might fit that.

If you couldn't get a tone you like on  the Katana, that's probably because you hadn't worked out how to dial in tones on it. Devices like the Helix are not a "magic bullet" for this: they still require tweaking and configuring (unless you are just downloading presets, but you can do that on the Katana too) and still, to a degree, require the user to have some idea what they are doing to get good tones from them.

Don't get me wrong: something like a Helix or a Quad Cortex might be ideal for you, but do the research and look at other options too.

Cheers,

Keith
« Last Edit: June 04, 2021, 12:57:57 pm by Majik »

Offline RC23

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Re: amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2021, 10:24:50 am »
Tube amp with low power settings and headphone out?

You could consider something like the Blackstar HT-1 or HT-5.   They have tubes but also low power settings and headphone and USB out.

Pure tube amps can be incredibly loud. My 5W Champ clone is very loud. And most of the time at home I use the Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb (which is a digital copy of a tube amp) on the 0.2W setting at about Volume 5.


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Offline David.t

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Re: amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2021, 09:06:32 pm »
Check this other post by the user wyldelife,

He just posted this pro quality video while using a guitar, 1 pedal and 1 pre-amp/Speaker sim pedal (Strymon Iridium)

https://justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=49467.msg454230#msg454230

This might be the exact kind of setup that would suit you so check it out! :D

Thanks! never heard of that, going to check it out :)

Offline David.t

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Re: amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2021, 09:11:16 pm »
I think you need to stop trying to pigeon-hole things so much and start off with what you need from a functional perspective and then look at solutions which fit those needs, and don't worry about  what category or label it might have on it. Then, if you can, audition equipment that you think might fit that.

If you couldn't get a tone you like on  the Katana, that's probably because you hadn't worked out how to dial in tones on it. Devices like the Helix are not a "magic bullet" for this: they still require tweaking and configuring (unless you are just downloading presets, but you can do that on the Katana too) and still, to a degree, require the user to have some idea what they are doing to get good tones from them.


Wisdom here :) thank you!

I will try to use what I have better, that is a point taken.

Of course it makes sense when someone else tells you, i just get a little mentally stuck looking at new gear, sounds etc :)

Offline David.t

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Re: amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2021, 09:11:37 pm »
Tube amp with low power settings and headphone out?

You could consider something like the Blackstar HT-1 or HT-5.   They have tubes but also low power settings and headphone and USB out.

Pure tube amps can be incredibly loud. My 5W Champ clone is very loud. And most of the time at home I use the Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb (which is a digital copy of a tube amp) on the 0.2W setting at about Volume 5.

thanks gonna check them out

Offline Majik

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Re: amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2021, 09:16:19 pm »
Yes, the HT-1/5 are what I referred to as "hybrid" amps. They are a combination of solid-state and tube and (sometimes) a little modelling.

I wouldn't say the HT-1/5 are really "metal" amps, but stick an appropriate gain pedal in front of them, and the sky is your limit!

Also, check out the Orange Micro amps as another option.

Cheers,

Keith

Offline Majik

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Re: amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2021, 09:19:43 pm »
Wisdom here :) thank you!

I will try to use what I have better, that is a point taken.

Of course it makes sense when someone else tells you, i just get a little mentally stuck looking at new gear, sounds etc :)

If you still have access to the Katana, here's a few videos which might help:













Cheers,

Keith

Offline David.t

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Re: amp connection/ headphones/ XLR question
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2021, 07:09:34 am »
Thanks! Gonna check them out :)
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 08:21:06 am by close2u »

 

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