Author Topic: Headphones or Monitors  (Read 2400 times)

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Offline tobyjenner

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Headphones or Monitors
« on: May 20, 2021, 08:16:56 am »
Although this is under the Live Gig sections I guess its more Live @ Home Gigs I am referring to here.

After some success with the live video performances under the Madman Diary banner and our three Open Mic events this year, I have been thinking about how I want to enhance this for the future. What I want to do is do these "performances" standing, like Roscco/Jason and Leieven.

At the moment I sit with headphones on and the PC speaker bar doesn't give me a decent sounds, so I have been considering getting some monitors. I've tried Bluetooth earbuds/running band but again the audio quality is a bit naff.

I think my main concern is bleed from the monitors into the mic when singing. I have enough problems with the mic picking up pick noise and that irritating electro/acoustic sound, that needs addressing, so do not want to introduced another issue.

Anyway thoughts and comments, advice welcome from those "perfrming" or recording in this way.

Cheers

Toby
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Online close2u

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Re: Headphones or Monitors
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2021, 08:29:40 am »
You can get microphone-stand mounted monitors that aim pretty much at your head and are 'behind' the mic as they are near your body.

This type of thing: Behringer B205D


There are others in similar fashion.

Online Rossco01

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Re: Headphones or Monitors
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2021, 08:39:53 am »
If you're using a dynamic mic I think you'll get minimum bleed. I have my monitors at a reasonable volume when playing on those OM and I don't think there is any bleed into the mic (or it's not noticeable in the recording). If it's a condensor then you'll definitely get some bleed
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Offline tobyjenner

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Re: Headphones or Monitors
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2021, 08:42:45 am »
Thanks Richard does "behind the mic" have an impact depending on the type of mic ? I've been using a condenser and have consider trying my dynamics again.

Been looking at Thomann and not sure about stand or wall mounted, given the layout of my "music room" that provides other functions (access to down stairs WC for one), so all to be weighed up. Other half wanted to get me another guitar for our anniversary, so thinking about practical alternative that would make us both happy!

Cheers

Toby
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Offline tobyjenner

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Re: Headphones or Monitors
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2021, 08:44:37 am »
If you're using a dynamic mic I think you'll get minimum bleed. I have my monitors at a reasonable volume when playing on those OM and I don't think there is any bleed into the mic (or it's not noticeable in the recording). If it's a condensor then you'll definitely get some bleed

Jason

Brilliant ! That's where my thought were heading and experiment for my next recording. Thanks.

Cheers

Toby
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Online close2u

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Re: Headphones or Monitors
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2021, 08:45:59 am »
Good point Rossco ... dynamic mics are ideal for that.

You need to get a up close and personal with them of course but they do not really let distant sound sources bleed in.

Don't do this though: https://youtu.be/64G6KTSf8Kc

Online brianlarsen

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Re: Headphones or Monitors
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2021, 09:20:08 am »
What I want to do is do these "performances" standing, like Roscco/Jason and Leieven
errr... aren't you forgetting someone?  ;)

Online close2u

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Re: Headphones or Monitors
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2021, 09:36:35 am »
errr... aren't you forgetting someone?  ;)

You had your knee on a chair - that doesn't count! ;)

Offline adi_mrok

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Re: Headphones or Monitors
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2021, 09:57:09 am »
Jason

Brilliant ! That's where my thought were heading and experiment for my next recording. Thanks.

Cheers

Toby
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With a condenser mic it doesn't really matter if it's front or rear of mic does it? When I did my soundchecks prior OM it really didn't matter when I was turning it around so even putting monitors behind wouldn't make a difference.

I agree with Jason, dynamic mic is what you need here.

Keep on rockin' my friends


Offline tobyjenner

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Re: Headphones or Monitors
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2021, 10:46:11 am »
You had your knee on a chair - that doesn't count! ;)

And controlled by strings no doubt.

Sorry Brain my error in omitting you, it was FAB. 
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Offline tobyjenner

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Re: Headphones or Monitors
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2021, 10:47:32 am »
So monitors and a dynamic mic is the way to go ? Cool my Leivenesque Shure Elvis mic will get more exposure !!

Thanks peeps.

Toby
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Offline Majik

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Re: Headphones or Monitors
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2021, 11:44:59 am »
So monitors and a dynamic mic is the way to go ?

I would say NO!

Unless you absolutely insist on not using any sort of headphones and are happy to put up with, or manage, the audio degradation caused by that approach.

At the moment I sit with headphones on and the PC speaker bar doesn't give me a decent sounds, so I have been considering getting some monitors. I've tried Bluetooth earbuds/running band but again the audio quality is a bit naff.

How do you get on with the headphones whilst sitting? Is there any reason you can't use them whilst standing? I regularly use my ATH-M50x headphones whilst standing with both electric and acoustic guitar. As long as you are careful how you route the cable, then it shouldn't be a problem. Professional musicians gig with wired IEMs all the time.

Using a small monitor speaker is going to be problematic for online live performances. Monitor feedback in real live performances can be an issue, but it's possible to manage it. With an online performance you have, not only the local feedback issues to contend with, but also the echo-cancellation degradation issues you will get with online services.

You can solve/manage this if you can somehow mute the audio from the (e.g.) Zoom session so it doesn't come out of your monitors whilst you are playing/singing, but that might be counter to what you are trying to do, and you will need to remember to mute before you start playing and unmute after.

Personally, I think your best bet is to stick with headphones. To deliver the best audio quality to the other people in an online session, whether that is an online open-mic, an online jamming system like Jamulus, or even just normal everyday Zoom/Meet/Teams type meetings, you should always use headphones.

The question really should be: what are the problems you are experiencing with headphones/earbuds and how best to solve those. I can understand issues with bluetooth headphones/buds as they tend to have quite poor latency.

Cheers,

Keith

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: Headphones or Monitors
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2021, 12:51:53 pm »
Keith

Had a quick whiz through but off to get cvd jab 2, so will ingest later. Guess this is more about vanity (?) when I am recording a video of a performance more than OM. No issue with cans at all and have an extension cable if needed.

BBS

Cheers

Toby
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Offline tobyjenner

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Re: Headphones or Monitors
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2021, 07:52:28 pm »
I would say NO!

Unless you absolutely insist on not using any sort of headphones and are happy to put up with, or manage, the audio degradation caused by that approach.

How do you get on with the headphones whilst sitting? Is there any reason you can't use them whilst standing? I regularly use my ATH-M50x headphones whilst standing with both electric and acoustic guitar. As long as you are careful how you route the cable, then it shouldn't be a problem. Professional musicians gig with wired IEMs all the time.

Using a small monitor speaker is going to be problematic for online live performances. Monitor feedback in real live performances can be an issue, but it's possible to manage it. With an online performance you have, not only the local feedback issues to contend with, but also the echo-cancellation degradation issues you will get with online services.

You can solve/manage this if you can somehow mute the audio from the (e.g.) Zoom session so it doesn't come out of your monitors whilst you are playing/singing, but that might be counter to what you are trying to do, and you will need to remember to mute before you start playing and unmute after.

Personally, I think your best bet is to stick with headphones. To deliver the best audio quality to the other people in an online session, whether that is an online open-mic, an online jamming system like Jamulus, or even just normal everyday Zoom/Meet/Teams type meetings, you should always use headphones.

The question really should be: what are the problems you are experiencing with headphones/earbuds and how best to solve those. I can understand issues with bluetooth headphones/buds as they tend to have quite poor latency.

Cheers,

Keith

Keith

Thanks for the as usual in depth reply. I can understand what you are saying about live online "performances" but do these issues also manifest if I were to be recording a video offline ?
You make a good point about IEM not something I thought about, as not something used by bands back in my youth but that just shows my age. Guess everyone uses them these day. But not an avenue I would pursue for what I want to be doing for sure and the cost would be prohibitive for anything half decent.

Anyway, need to have a ponder. Biggest issue as I say is the condenser mic picking up the un-amped side of the guitar. So that's the priority assuming the jab side effects stay at bay this time.

Cheers

Toby
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Offline Majik

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Re: Headphones or Monitors
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2021, 08:48:16 pm »
I can understand what you are saying about live online "performances" but do these issues also manifest if I were to be recording a video offline ?

Not at all. Of course you still need to be concerned with local feedback and "bleed".

The online issue is because the echo cancellation algorithms are mainly designed for voice and don't work too well with music. It doesn't take that much sound from "the room" to trigger these algorithms which can start to cause distortion. The worst case is when your song get's picked up by someone else's mic from their speakers, which can send a distorted signal back to you.

Of course, if everyone else uses headphones and, preferably, mutes their mic during the performance then it shouldn't be a problem, but in my experience that's rarely the case. It's certainly not something you can rely on.

High-end IEMs are expensive, but there's some decent lower-priced ones around, like the Shure SE215, which are under £100.

Quote
Anyway, need to have a ponder. Biggest issue as I say is the condenser mic picking up the un-amped side of the guitar. So that's the priority assuming the jab side effects stay at bay this time.

Hopefully you don't get side effects and, if you do, they will be mild and will pass quickly. I have my 2nd jab in a few weeks.

Cheers,

Keith

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: Headphones or Monitors
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2021, 09:07:32 pm »
Thanks Keith for the quick response and explanation. Certainly an online phenomena we have experienced during the OMs especially when folks (audience) leave their mics on and don't have headphones on.

May still go the monitor route for video recording. Multi track projects will always be cans but I look into those Shure IEMs (95 euro @ Thomann).

Cheers

Toby
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