Author Topic: Justinguitarjams  (Read 423 times)

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Offline Delcampo66

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Justinguitarjams
« on: April 02, 2021, 05:47:55 pm »
Hello, i ordered some Jamtracks at Justinguitarjams, the tracks are very well for using on the Mac, but when i will copy the tracks to my "Boss JS-10" for playing, some tracks not working because some are in 48kHz and some in 44.1kHz recorded.
Is it possible to reload the 48kHz tracks in 44.1kHz?
;-) Daniel

Online Majik

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Re: Justinguitarjams
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2021, 12:50:58 am »
You need to resample them to 44.1kHz. Therre's a few tools around to do this. My personal preference is sox, although it's not particularly friendly to use: http://sox.sourceforge.net/

Cheers,

Keith


Offline batwoman

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Re: Justinguitarjams
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2021, 03:22:09 am »
You need to resample them to 44.1kHz. Therre's a few tools around to do this. My personal preference is sox, although it's not particularly friendly to use: http://sox.sourceforge.net/

Cheers,

Keith

Keith you are AMAZING. What would we do without you, genius that you are. Thankyou for sharing valuable info and for solving impenetrable conundrums. I say thankyou to you every time I connect my laptop and amp with the cute little 3.5mm TRS cable. I feel so sophisticated knowing about such a thing  ;D

You are a legend.
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Online Majik

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Re: Justinguitarjams
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2021, 11:56:45 am »
That's kind of you to say Maggie, but I was wondering how helpful my, rather terse, instructions were.

So, a bit more info which, hopefully, will help:

SoX is a command line tool. There's actually two tools: sox and soxi, with sox performning manipulations on audio files, and soxi giving information about them.

As an example, I can use sox to create a 1kHz sine wave in a wav file called "example48k.wav" to use:

Code: [Select]
sox -V -r 48000 -n -b 16 -c 2 example48k.wav synth 30 sin 1000 vol -10dB
The file is 48000 Hz, 16 bits, 2 channels, and has a level of -10dB.

We can then check this file with soxi:

Code: [Select]
soxi example48k.wav
This should output something like:

Quote
Input File     : 'example48k.wav'
Channels       : 2
Sample Rate    : 48000
Precision      : 16-bit
Duration       : 00:00:30.00 = 1440000 samples ~ 2250 CDDA sectors
File Size      : 5.76M
Bit Rate       : 1.54M
Sample Encoding: 16-bit Signed Integer PCM

That shows the sample rate as 48000 (which is 48kHz).

To convert this, you can use the following command:

Code: [Select]
sox example48k.wav -r 44100 example44k1.wav
This says to resample the file example48k.wav at 44100Hz (44.1kHz) and store the result in a file called "example44k1.wav". We can check this with soxi:

Code: [Select]
soxi example44k1.wav
Which should give the output as follows:

Quote
Input File     : 'example44k1.wav'
Channels       : 2
Sample Rate    : 44100
Precision      : 16-bit
Duration       : 00:00:30.00 = 1323000 samples = 2250 CDDA sectors
File Size      : 5.29M
Bit Rate       : 1.41M
Sample Encoding: 16-bit Signed Integer PCM

You should be able to use similar commands to resample other audio files, including mp3, e.g.:

Code: [Select]
sox example48k.mp3 -r44100 example44k1.mp3
Cheers,

Keith

Offline batwoman

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Re: Justinguitarjams
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2021, 02:32:59 am »
That's kind of you to say Maggie, but I was wondering how helpful my, rather terse, instructions were.

So, a bit more info which, hopefully, will help:
Keith

Not only are you a bottomless cup of info, you're good at explaining it Keith. Thanks.

Between you and Richard with his Modes extravaganza I think my brain must now have trillions more neural pathways.  :)
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Offline DavidP

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Re: Justinguitarjams
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2021, 06:37:32 am »
Top drawer as always, Keith.

My mind is now tossing around the sample rate, it's implications, how it effects the sound, the consequences of playing things together recorded at different sample rates ... starting to feel brain ache  :o

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Re: Justinguitarjams
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2021, 11:39:19 am »
My mind is now tossing around the sample rate, it's implications, how it effects the sound,

It doesn't.

At least, from a listening point of view, if your sample rate is 44.1kHz or above, it doesn't. 44.1k was chosen as the standard for CDs because it captures every frequency even the most golden-eared human can perceive in normal listening environments, whilst still managing to fit a whole album onto CD media. 48kHz is a common alternative because it aligns nicely with the 24 frames per second used in the film and TV world. The audible difference between the two is zero.

The sampling rate is chosen based on Nyquist's Theorem which, basically, states to fully and accurately sample a signal, you need to sample at slightly over twice the rate of the highest frequency. So 44.1kHz will fully capture all frequencies up to about 22.05kHz. 48kHz will capture up to 24kHz. The practical range of human hearing is around 20Hz to 20kHz and most people are quite a bit lower than this. I bet if we did a test of the forum members, the average would be under 17kHz.

44.1kHz supports up to 20kHz audio with some "wiggle room" that's required for filtering (above 22.05kHz you will get something called "aliasing" which is a quite harsh noise, so this needs to be filtered out).

Note that there is an argument that 22.05kHz is so close to the human hearing range that the aliasing filters have to be quite abrupt, and this could introduce distortion. There is some truth to this, but it really isn't an issue with modern digital filters.

Personally, I prefer 48kHz because of the compatibility with film/TV specs, and because 44.1kHz can be an awkward number to work with. The reasons for having 44.1kHz have largely gone away (who buys CDs any more?).

The problem we have now is that all consumer digital players support 44.1kHz, but not all support 48kHz. There's a similar situation with audio interfaces: whilst many support both 44.1kHz and 48kHz (and, often, many other sampling rates) some only support one or the other. Sometimes the OS drivers for an AI may include internal resampling to make an interface compatible with 44.1kHz for casual desktop use, but this may not work when using drivers designed for audio-production work (e.g. ASIO or native ALSA).

Quote
the consequences of playing things together recorded at different sample rates ... starting to feel brain ache  :o

I think a lot of DAWs will either complain, or automatically resample if you try to import a 44.1kHz file into a 48kHz project (or vice versa). If you do import a file of the wrong sample rate without any resampling, it will simply sound slower or faster than it should, with a corresponding decrease or increase in pitch. It would be equivalent to running a conventional record player faster or slower.

In general, it's best to pick a sample rate for your DAW project and stick with that for the whole project as much as possible. It can be awkward if you have to deal with files or interfaces which have different sampling rates, but it's not impossible. But if you have multiple audio interfaces which support different sampling rates, then it's best to pick one they all support.

Note that most professional recording studios will use much higher sampling rates: 96kHz, 192kHz or above. There are some benefits to doing this if you can, although it will dramatically increase the computing and storage power your DAW uses, so I wouldn't recommend it for home recording. The main benefits are around giving more digital "headroom" to do mixing and to apply digital plugins within.

Once the project is mixed and mastered, there really is no benefit in rendering the project down to a listening format with a sample rate of more than 44.1kHz or 48kHz.

If you are interested in this subject, I direct you to the following video which is presented by Monty at Xiph.org, the authors of various popular audio codecs including the ogg and flac formats, and the speex codec.

https://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml

Cheers,

Keith
« Last Edit: April 05, 2021, 01:24:06 pm by Majik »

Offline sairfingers

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Re: Justinguitarjams
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2021, 11:53:07 am »
Although I’m not into DAWs etc, that was fascinating Keith. This is the type of post that needs its own thread heading and stored in perhaps ‘tips and tricks’ otherwise it gets lost in the ‘I read about this somewhere but can’t remember where’ pile.
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Offline DavidP

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Re: Justinguitarjams
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2021, 02:24:04 pm »
Thanks very much, Keith. That all makes sense.

Offline RC23

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Re: Justinguitarjams
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2021, 10:14:39 am »
Got to love having a Telco background.  I was just skimming through this and thinking “anytime soon Keith will mention Nyquist theorem”. And yep, right on cue.   8)

GarageBand only supporting 44.1khz, on the iPad version anyway, is the reason I stopped using it. Had some problems syncing nicely with video recorded separately at 48khz.

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Re: Justinguitarjams
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2021, 10:41:21 am »
Got to love having a Telco background.  I was just skimming through this and thinking “anytime soon Keith will mention Nyquist theorem”. And yep, right on cue.   8)

I actually had an interest in digital audio from my days at school. A that time I was using a BBC Micro and playing with some pretty low-res sampling tools.

My first real job was working for Marconi Instruments where I spent a few months working in the Spectrum Analyser design team (doing junior stuff, I should point, out, but working with the Design Engineers). During that time I studied signal processing and topics like Nyquist a bit at collage and, later, in depth at Uni doing my EE degree.

Of course, that stuff was also pretty relevent when I eventually moved into Telecoms after leaving Uni.

By the way, this just popped up in my Youtube recommendations, and it seems relevant:





Cheers,

Keith
« Last Edit: April 09, 2021, 11:05:31 am by Majik »

 

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