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Offline batwoman

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Using rests
« on: February 16, 2021, 04:26:42 am »
I'm working through Justin's Guitar Rhythm Reading. Not exactly PMT, but it is, sort of.

Is there anyone who can explain the following please? It's all 4/4 time and it's from Lesson 3.

QUESTION 1


In the top line, two crochet rests (worth 1 each) have been used. In the bottom line, a minim rest (worth 2) is used and then a crochet rest for beat 4. I notice that in other exercises that the minim rest is always used at the start of a bar in this way.
 
Why isn't a minim rest used in the top line or why aren't crochet rests used in the bottom line? 


QUESTION 2

Why has a minim been used here? I guess it would be messy to put 4 quaver rests?

There must be some sort of system that I can't see here.

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Offline RC23

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Re: Using rests
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2021, 04:45:43 am »
I’ll have a go at this although I’m dredging up memories of when I did piano over 40 years ago.

I believe the minim rest is half a whole rest, so it’s either the first 2 beats (first half of the bar) or second 2 beats (second half of the bar).   
So either Beats 1+2 or beats 3+4. But not for beats 2 and 3.

I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong.

Rod.
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Online tobyjenner

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Re: Using rests
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2021, 08:37:29 am »
Maggie

Very quick reply that I hope is right, just off for walk.
 
Q1 Based on one strum per beat  1/4
Strum miss miss strum
miss strum strum strum
miss miss strum miss

Thinks RC is right minim at start or end crochets in between or first and last

Q2 1/8s
Down Up Down Up miss 3+4+ so minim half bar rest at end half of bar , so expediency I guess

Been a while  8) 
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Online tobyjenner

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Re: Using rests
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2021, 08:44:28 am »
Try this



Here since Mar 2013 Completed BC, RUST 1 & 2, IM, MTMS Still on Blues Rhythm and Blues Lead
https://soundcloud.com/tobyjenner/   
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Offline batwoman

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Re: Using rests
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2021, 12:46:46 am »
Thankyou Rod and Toby.  :) :)

Now I get it.

The video was excellent, I've noted his site.
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Offline skinnyT

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Re: Using rests
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2021, 04:27:31 pm »
@batwoman, whats Justin's book like, how useful is it? thanks

Offline batwoman

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Re: Using rests
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2021, 09:17:39 pm »
@batwoman, whats Justin's book like, how useful is it? thanks

Hi skinny, one thing Justin's book isn't is skinny! It's a big book full of good stuff and I'm getting a lot of value out of it.  I'm finding the combo of these three things is helping my rhythm heaps.

Strumming techniques  https://www.justinguitar.com/modules/strumming-techniques-1-2  It's 2 videos plus .pdf files with all the strumming patterns and explanation of the patterns and tecnhiques.

Backing tracks  https://justinguitarjams.com/collections/guitar/products/jam-chords-vol-i-deluxe-edition  I was getting bogged down playing to a metronome. The tracks make it musical and help me feel the pulse and groove. Both these resources work well with any level of learning including beginner. One of the 12 track uses just D and A, another uses E, A and D. The pdf also gives the barre chord and higher voicing options.

Here's the table of contents for Rhythm Reading. If this is too hard to read let me know and I'll take photos. For some reason my scanner didn't pick this up well at all.




If you were going to choose just one, I'd suggest Strumming Techniques, it's all about PLAYING developing good rhythm and there's enough theory in it to answer any questions you might have. I'm finding the book is reinforcing and deepening what I'm learning with the ST videos.

One other place you might like to look is this thread. https://justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=48605.msg440843#msg440843

Hope this helps  :)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2021, 09:47:01 pm by batwoman »
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Offline skinnyT

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Re: Using rests
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2021, 01:59:59 pm »
Many thanks Batwoman. I have the strumming DVDs somewhere, I will dig them out. I was about to buy the book but halfway through the purchase Andertons website went into meltdown so I gave up, then your thread appeared. I will try what you have done with the three products you mention. My rhythm is awful, I play with a metronome but for some reason I am never in time with it. If I set it to e.g. 100 bpm I play at 100 but its never on the beat, its infuriating.


Online tobyjenner

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Re: Using rests
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2021, 02:52:20 pm »
Many thanks Batwoman. I have the strumming DVDs somewhere, I will dig them out. I was about to buy the book but halfway through the purchase Andertons website went into meltdown so I gave up, then your thread appeared. I will try what you have done with the three products you mention. My rhythm is awful, I play with a metronome but for some reason I am never in time with it. If I set it to e.g. 100 bpm I play at 100 but its never on the beat, its infuriating.

Skinny

RUST will do you the power of good, whatever its called these days. As to the strumming and timing, are you counting or foot tapping even at 100 bpm ? I'd say slow down, count, tap, nod your head to that click, feel the count before you start strumming. Ease into the groove and when you've got it, then start strumming.

Cheers

Toby
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Offline skinnyT

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Re: Using rests
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2021, 03:34:54 pm »
Skinny

RUST will do you the power of good, whatever its called these days. As to the strumming and timing, are you counting or foot tapping even at 100 bpm ? I'd say slow down, count, tap, nod your head to that click, feel the count before you start strumming. Ease into the groove and when you've got it, then start strumming.

Cheers

Toby
 8)

Thanks Toby. I am shortly off to tip a few boxes upside down to try and find the DVDs. I foot tap but  much above 100 my foot starts to object. I have tried slowing my strumming down but it does not seem to matter, if its 60 bpm I will play at 60 but again its not in time with the metronome.  I think I need to concentrate more on the metronome.

Batwoman I hope I have not hijacked your thread.

Online tobyjenner

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Re: Using rests
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2021, 03:40:11 pm »
Thanks Toby. I am shortly off to tip a few boxes upside down to try and find the DVDs. I foot tap but  much above 100 my foot starts to object. I have tried slowing my strumming down but it does not seem to matter, if its 60 bpm I will play at 60 but again its not in time with the metronome.  I think I need to concentrate more on the metronome.

Batwoman I hope I have not hijacked your thread.

Well to pull it back, if you are foot tapping at 100 bpm you will need a REST now and then.  ;) There you go Maggie, sorted.  8)
Here since Mar 2013 Completed BC, RUST 1 & 2, IM, MTMS Still on Blues Rhythm and Blues Lead
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Offline Jamolay

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Re: Using rests
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2021, 04:41:08 pm »
Thanks Toby. I am shortly off to tip a few boxes upside down to try and find the DVDs. I foot tap but  much above 100 my foot starts to object. I have tried slowing my strumming down but it does not seem to matter, if its 60 bpm I will play at 60 but again its not in time with the metronome.  I think I need to concentrate more on the metronome.

Batwoman I hope I have not hijacked your thread.
Sorry to hijack further.
I struggle with rhythm and timing, too. But I find I keep better time if I concentrate on the foot tap hitting the floor and not the metronome and not counting.
My understanding is that the foot tap should be “with” the metronome, not “at” the metronome, if that makes sense. It is finding the timing and if I listen to the metronome, I end up either following it or anticipating it.
My plan, as I get more “with” the metronome, is to eventually learn to let my foot do the tapping on its own, then I can play along with it (in theory...).
Hope that helps!

Offline dan71

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Re: Using rests
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2021, 11:16:15 pm »
I’ll have a late stab at the original question, based on some slightly hazy music lesson memory :)

The rests (and notes for that matter) generally get written on the usual divisions of a bar but not crossing one unless it fills both sides.* In the end this might use more ink, but results in notation that’s easier to scan and sight read while keeping time. It’s a bit like putting spaces between each word in writing.

So in 4-4 there’s 4 beats, 1 being “strongest”, 3 next strongest and 2 and 4 being the “off beats”. If I’m counting along it might be ONE two Three four.
The crotchets occupy their beat, so that’s fine.
A minim at the start or end occupy 1 and 2 or 3 and 4, but don’t cut across the 3 beat. So they’re fine.
A minim in the middle would cut across the three beat, so is usually written separately. A long note might be written tied in that situation.
A four beat rest occupies the whole of the bar, so it’s ok that it cuts across the three beat.

In other time signatures those logical divisions shift.

* that logic breaks down a bit with dotted notes, which will have to cross into their neighbour a bit.

Offline batwoman

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Re: Using rests
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2021, 01:24:06 am »
I’ll have a late stab at the original question, based on some slightly hazy music lesson memory :)

The rests (and notes for that matter) generally get written on the usual divisions of a bar but not crossing one unless it fills both sides.* In the end this might use more ink, but results in notation that’s easier to scan and sight read while keeping time. It’s a bit like putting spaces between each word in writing.

So in 4-4 there’s 4 beats, 1 being “strongest”, 3 next strongest and 2 and 4 being the “off beats”. If I’m counting along it might be ONE two Three four.
The crotchets occupy their beat, so that’s fine.
A minim at the start or end occupy 1 and 2 or 3 and 4, but don’t cut across the 3 beat. So they’re fine.
A minim in the middle would cut across the three beat, so is usually written separately. A long note might be written tied in that situation.
A four beat rest occupies the whole of the bar, so it’s ok that it cuts across the three beat.

In other time signatures those logical divisions shift.

* that logic breaks down a bit with dotted notes, which will have to cross into their neighbour a bit.

Thanks very much Dan, this all makes sense.

I've read the lessons on ties and dotted notes and have a lot more questions. If I can't find the answers I may have to come back here and ask.

I shudder to think of other time signatures  :o

I don't want to get myself bogged down in theory but there's a part of me that's driven by curiosity and has to know. I could spend many hours on this, but that won't do much for strength, dexterity, application of what I've learned and all that goes with playing, so I'm aware of keeping a balance.
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Offline dan71

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Re: Using rests
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2021, 09:44:25 am »
...

I don't want to get myself bogged down in theory but there's a part of me that's driven by curiosity and has to know. I could spend many hours on this, but that won't do much for strength, dexterity, application of what I've learned and all that goes with playing, so I'm aware of keeping a balance.

I was thinking about this last night, and how it’s similar for music and other things. I see three sorts of theory learning:
1. Theory that helps me understand the world at hand. Time signatures, gravity, differential equations and so on.
2. Theory that is just interesting, but doesn’t really change anything I do. Stellar life cycles, how transistors work.
3. Theory that I’ve had to learn for an exam or to realise that I’ve gone beyond what I need for type 1 or 2.
Like you say - a balance.

 

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