Author Topic: So, what are you learning now? 2010  (Read 2797 times)

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Offline Bootstrap

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So, what are you learning now? 2010
« on: January 03, 2010, 03:09:22 am »
I'd played on and off mostly on acoustic for 27 or so years and apart from 1/4 tone curls and a bit of vibrato I never did any bends.

This year I decided I wanted to expand my electric playing skills and found bends a bit of hurdle for a couple of weeks. On .10s I found it physically difficult to push the string the distance required for even a full-tone bend. Other things I had to get the hang of was palm muting whilst bending and also not having the other strings ring out during the bend or getting the string above the one I was bending caught on my finger tip on the release and doing an inadvertant flick-off.

All these things took me a couple of weeks to get the hang of. I remember thinking after the first session of trying "this is impossible" - like so many other things on the guitar - but like with all those other things a bit of work and I've got it now.

Maybe I'm just slow.

B
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mbarrett12

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2010, 09:32:23 pm »
@mbarret12: dude, so the first time you grabbed a guitar, you could bend pitch perfect, both 1/4 step up through 2 notes up, pre-bend, bend-release, add vibrato's to all those,  wide, slow, tight and fast, and do that over most of the neck, and also know where and when to bend good and sound good in all scale positions?  :P well, if you could, good for you, now you know what other people have to practise, if not...well, go practice!  :)
Sorry, I don't really know the names of the bends, but basically I listen to a song, have the tab and it says 10b I can make it sound like whatever it sounds like in the song.  I find scales pretty boring, I know a couple but I don't really see the point of them, they seem to make music less free and more constricted.  But knowing where to bend is found out pretty quick tbh. 

Maybe it's because I grew up playing guitar since I was 8, I never really put alot of effort into it until I was about 13 or 14 but I probably had all the basics down.  Bootstrap I understand what you mean now with the bending, took me a while when I first started to just do the bend and not do anything else.  Thanks for clearing that up.  When do you need to palm mute while bending?

Offline Bootstrap

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2010, 10:07:36 pm »
At the top of the bend before you move onto the next note - there are times you might want to get the reverse sound back to the original note (or partially back) but mostly it sounds awful if you don't mute.

And I LOVE scales.

B
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Offline marcusmarkmus

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2010, 12:13:27 am »
@mbarret12: well...what is the point of scales you say? they make music less free and constricted? Id say, rather the opposite. Knowing scales (at least some basic ones, and knowing them good)  opens the whole fretboard for jamming and making your own music!  :D Less free? who says that if you know a scale, its illigal to go outside it? Ofc we all want to break the rules, but you must know them first. Learning the miner pentatonic and later minor scale all over the fretboard is one of the things im the most glad i put a big effort into when it comes to guitar.  ;)
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mbarrett12

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2010, 12:24:11 am »
@mbarret12: well...what is the point of scales you say? they make music less free and constricted? Id say, rather the opposite. Knowing scales (at least some basic ones, and knowing them good)  opens the whole fretboard for jamming and making your own music!  :D Less free? who says that if you know a scale, its illigal to go outside it? Ofc we all want to break the rules, but you must know them first. Learning the miner pentatonic and later minor scale all over the fretboard is one of the things im the most glad i put a big effort into when it comes to guitar.  ;)
You don't have to know them first, you being a slash fan of all people should know that, his first guitar was a 1-stringed thing he found in his grandma's closet.  He came up with the opening riff to paradise city by playing around.  He didn't know any scales and he came up with some of my favourite music.  If you know scales you'll feel like you have to stay inside them, if you don't, you can go anywhere without thinking "Oh no, am I in the right position for this key?"  If it sounds good, great, if not, oh well.

Offline Bootstrap

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2010, 12:47:25 am »
@mbarrett12

Good for you for having a view but keep your mind open mate.

The theory of evolution tells us "that which survives, survives" - scales - the foundation stones of western music have survived for a mighty long time - and like the crocodile they may seem a little simple to you, but they are uniquely suited to their purpose and also a bit like the crocodile you can ignore them but if you do they might end up biting you on the xx--xx.

Knowing and playing scales isn't just about soloing, it is the foundation knowledge you need to understand chord grips, key changes and a whole bunch of good stuff that can help you be a great player.

Sure there are greats out there who don't know a scale from.... well.... a crocodile - would they have been better had they learned their scales? We will never know so the point is moot.

Frankly anyone who points to a so-called great and says "they didn't so I don't need to" - is either, lazy, arrogant, a fool, or in a very few cases - gifted.

Hope you're one of the latter - me - I'm just a mere mortal trying to make music.

B
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Offline Cue Zephyr

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2010, 01:10:26 am »
I've tried several times to get into learning scales, but I don't know anything more than the maj scale position 1 (E) and 3 (C), maj pent pos 1 (E), min pent pos 1 (E) and 4 (A).
Do I know them well? No.
I just can't make myself stick to it.
Help?
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Offline marcusmarkmus

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2010, 01:12:07 am »
gah, as a slash fan im so tired of people saying that slash doint play scales. ofc he does. ofc he has practiced them. but he is not a slave to them. thats what he means, when he says "im not sitting and going like this" *plays a major scale up and down fast* in this one japanese interview he says this and then shreds up a perfetct normal major scale. so he must have learned it sometime!

 I mean, a guy that never looks up lessons or talk to people, but find a bunch of notes that sound good together in a certain setting (a key and style), memorizes those notes, or patterns of those notes, and later uses them as this, IS USING A SCALE. Even if he dont know the name of it, or hasnt looked it up in a theory book. If you improsvise over something, you are playing a scale that you have memorized. saying you know no scales is the same as saying youll never ever sound good improvising.

and ofc, even if you dont know any scales, if you make a cool lick and gonna add it to a song, and know no scales, how will you make the key of the lick fit the song? impossible, or atleast very hard.

Its also down to how you practice scales.dont just sit there with the scale, make a backingtrack going and learn the scale by playing around!  :) ofc, do as you want. but i dont like it when people tell others not to learn scales, because its so much fun to know.

those gifted people bootstrap speaks of, are merely people who learnt scales very fast imo. thats where their gift is i think.  ::)
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mbarrett12

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2010, 01:32:24 am »
gah, as a slash fan im so tired of people saying that slash doint play scales. ofc he does. ofc he has practiced them. but he is not a slave to them. thats what he means, when he says "im not sitting and going like this" *plays a major scale up and down fast* in this one japanese interview he says this and then shreds up a perfetct normal major scale. so he must have learned it sometime!

 I mean, a guy that never looks up lessons or talk to people, but find a bunch of notes that sound good together in a certain setting (a key and style), memorizes those notes, or patterns of those notes, and later uses them as this, IS USING A SCALE. Even if he dont know the name of it, or hasnt looked it up in a theory book. If you improsvise over something, you are playing a scale that you have memorized. saying you know no scales is the same as saying youll never ever sound good improvising.

and ofc, even if you dont know any scales, if you make a cool lick and gonna add it to a song, and know no scales, how will you make the key of the lick fit the song? impossible, or atleast very hard.

Its also down to how you practice scales.dont just sit there with the scale, make a backingtrack going and learn the scale by playing around!  :) ofc, do as you want. but i dont like it when people tell others not to learn scales, because its so much fun to know.

those gifted people bootstrap speaks of, are merely people who learnt scales very fast imo. thats where their gift is i think.  ::)
Never said he doesn't use them, I said he didn't know them.  I know a scale already, major pentatonic I think, but I just find playing scales boring, it's much more fun to mess around and find something that sounds good than use a scale because everyone using a scale can find the same things, it's only when you think outside of them that you can find unique ideas.

@ Bootstrap, I'm not saying I don't need to learn scales, I'm saying I don't want to.  And I'm not saying that because Slash didn't I don't.  I also really like Matt Bellamy - Plug In Baby is practically a scale in itself, it even sounds like one, although a much cooler one.  I don't shun scales saying they're useless, (I don't think I did earlier, if I did I take it back) but I just find them monotonous and I don't think they're absolutely necessary to make good music.

Offline marcusmarkmus

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2010, 01:59:24 am »
hehe, yeah, i understand that you want to be original, but I bet that if you just mess around and find something thats cool, i can almost promise you that that lick is made up by notes from a certain scale....so everyone will still be making licks from the same notes anyway. Maybe we will understand each other more with time!  :P gonna sleep now, but looking forward to watch your new vid tomorrow!  ;)
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mbarrett12

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2010, 02:05:06 am »
hehe, yeah, i understand that you want to be original, but I bet that if you just mess around and find something thats cool, i can almost promise you that that lick is made up by notes from a certain scale....so everyone will still be making licks from the same notes anyway. Maybe we will understand each other more with time!  :P gonna sleep now, but looking forward to watch your new vid tomorrow!  ;)
Cheers, you can be completely critical on my bending :P

Offline Cue Zephyr

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2010, 02:12:32 pm »
I learned this:
Bronze - Bronze strings, which really aren't bronze but brass alloy over a steel string, give you a medium tone.

Phosphor Bronze - I remember in my incoming inspection quality control days working in factories, specifying phosphor bronze as the material of choice when receiving connector pins because they were denser, harder, and lasted longer than the other pins used.  The same holds true in the guitar string world but you have to know some precautions.  The phosphor bronze strings will probably sound brighter or louder even though they're the same gauge as you used before not only because they are a different material but also because they pull harder on the bridge / sound board due to their greater mass over regular bronze strings.  If you replace say a medium set of bronze strings with a medium set of phosphor bronze strings (same diameters) be aware that they will pull harder on your guitar.  Keep an eye on the face of your guitar after installing them to make sure your guitar can handle them or else when you decide to change over to phosphor bronze, get a gauge a little lighter.  The phosphor bronze strings do last longer than the two previously mentioned types of strings.
I now have Phosphor Bronze's on my Taylor, and I've bought two sets of 80/20 Bronze... uh-oh.
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Offline Bootstrap

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2010, 11:55:00 pm »
I put Phosphor Bronze Elixirs on my Maton Custom on Christmas Eve - they sound great but what I like most is the way they feel - I've been using Elixirs for ages but these feel somehow softer/silkier?

B
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Offline Cue Zephyr

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2010, 12:03:17 am »
You might be using Polyweb coated ones?
I broke my baby's G-string (ha ha) while tuning it up from E back to G (wanted to tune from DAEEAA to DGDGGD). It's fricken 1:02 in the morning here and I don't want to come home from school and have to restring her (ha ha).
Gonna do it now. I hope she's alright though.

Edit:
She's alright, she now sounds better than ever. (L)

What did I learn?
Putting strings from one guitar onto another is a real pain!
I put the old strings from my Taylor onto my dad's old parlour guitar. While changing, the high E also snapped while trying to get it off the tuning peg. Fortunately there was enough left to put it on the little parlour guitar.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2010, 03:04:22 am by Cue Zephyr »
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Offline zkash_guitarist

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2010, 01:29:06 pm »
@mbarret12: well...what is the point of scales you say? they make music less free and constricted? Id say, rather the opposite. Knowing scales (at least some basic ones, and knowing them good)  opens the whole fretboard for jamming and making your own music!  :D Less free? who says that if you know a scale, its illigal to go outside it? Ofc we all want to break the rules, but you must know them first. Learning the miner pentatonic and later minor scale all over the fretboard is one of the things im the most glad i put a big effort into when it comes to guitar.  ;)
  To be frank, I just love fooling around with scales. Everyday I come up with something different, something bluesy, something cool, something like neo classical(lol :D).
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Just using those different scale and chord positions; I learned to fall asleep with a guitar over me.
I stand by that. And I always will. :)
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Offline licksnkicks

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2010, 02:02:54 am »
Went to my lesson tonight and sounded like crap AGAIN.  Why is it I sound half decent when playing by myself in my own room and then go to sounding like garbage in front of my teacher?  I'm so frustrated.  He's very caring and really supportive and not just because I'm paying for the privledge of his teachings.  He said that I may be too over enthusiastic.  I want to know everything there is to know and play like professional this instant.  I'm getting myself all worked up because I'm trying to cram so much theory into my head when the journey takes years or a whole lifetime to learn.  Why do we always want instant gratification?  I come here as you know daily and look at theory stuff constantly.  Stuff I don't know but think I need to know right now.  Some of this stuff is light years beyond my abilities at the moment but I'm so adamant about learning that's it's causing me overloaded brain syndrome!  Maybe I should just take a vacation from here and concentrate on what my teacher gives me.
Don't know what to do.

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mbarrett12

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2010, 02:47:09 am »
LnK, I think I'm sort of the opposite, I don't like theory, I find it boring and it isn't necessary, also I think somewhere I saw people saying they practiced for 9 hours...jaysus that's too much, I practice, don't know how long, just whenever my guitar's beside me.  I had to play in front of an examiner for a music test before, I imagine you're getting embarassed or something in front of your teacher, only thing I think will help you with that, is taking a deep breath, pausing for a second and then say "can I start again?".  Of course, I didn't do that in the test, as it's a test but I would do it in my guitar lesson if I screw up a riff or whatever.  Also, don't strive for perfection, work around small goals.  They all add up.  For the fast ending part in sultans of swing I was gonna just play the starting note once, cos I didn't think it sounded too different, then I just decided I wanted to do it, took me a day or two to get it to speed but like that, just go for small things.

Hope any of that big bunch of words up there helped.

What exactly are you messing up on?  Is it something simple or tough?

Offline Bootstrap

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2010, 03:13:08 am »
Keep aiming high Lnk - enthusiasm and persistence WILL get you everywhere. And only ever look back to see how far you've come :)

And eat this elephant one mouthful at a time.

B
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Offline licksnkicks

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2010, 03:24:44 am »
I'm messing up on everything.  Scales, skipping notes like suggested in one of Justins lessons, just doing songs like Hey Joe with barre chords.  After like a month now I finally get them and had so much difficulty getting them,  for example all the notes of the A major barred chord as well as the G to ring clear.  I sounded like a fool trying to play tonight at my lesson.  I think I feel like I have to perform in front of him or something.  Playing Black Sabbath's Paranoid with the solo. Yes, I redid the song cause I made a mistake and on the second attempt not only made the first mistake but added a lot more to the list.    Not a real brain teaser for me and I sound pretty good at home but I was just scattered just like my last lesson.  My teacher said to concentrate on just a few things and not to spread myself so thin.  I too actually think I'm so embarrassed when I make a mistake and I know how excellently he plays.  I know he's not there to judge me but to help but I just can't get over this stupid "everything has to be perfect" attitude.  If anything this is the one thing that will cause a lot of frustration like it hasn't already.   I really need to get over this as the benefits from the lessons I go to provide me with so vital information, skills and techniques and besides  I love to jam with my teacher.  That' so much fun.

Lnk
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Offline marcusmarkmus

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2010, 12:15:42 pm »
@LnK: I LOVE your attitude! you never stop that, and always keep on like that! like bootstrap said, its gonna get you somewhere! But just be sure to focus on one, or just a few things at the time.  :P I also sometimes are trying to learn everything in a day, and it ends up with just not learning anything properly!  ::)

about bad performance with teacher: my thoughts on this is that all people no matter what they are doing, have their "best" and "worst" level of performance. Footballplayers, pokerplayers, gymnasts, guitarists, runners...you name it. The thing is, younger people or people that have not played very long, (but not just started) have a big difference between their best and worst. Proffesional people, like justin i can imagine, has a very high "worst" level, and most good professional have a worst level that is not very far from their best. So the "worst" level is a bar for how bad you possibly can play, and i think its important to raise this level, so if you find yourself there when with your teacher, thats great, since then he can help you raise that level. am i even making any sense here?  :D anyway, i have kinda felt my worst level raise the whole time. to practice it..well...play for strangers, play for a video cam, play for family members if that make you sweat   :P just my thoughts on this anyway ;D
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Offline Lemming

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2010, 01:42:10 pm »
Licks ..... you need to keep that enthusiasm but wind in the "trying to do too much at one time" part of it. Concentrate on smaller parts rather than the whole picture (I like the "eating the elephant" analogy, it fits really well !?!) ...... are you taking your guitar & your amp to your teacher or are you using his gear, that can make a difference to your feel & sound, but sometimes it really is just the fact that you're playing in front of someone else, I had a riff that I can play with my eyes shut, but I went to a friend (who's a brilliant player) & tried to play it for him & came across like i'd never even picked up a guitar before !?!? Now THAT was embarrassing !?!?  :D
You'll get there, there's more than one person on this board that believes in you  ;D
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Offline licksnkicks

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2010, 11:50:47 pm »
Thanks Lemming and thanks everyone else for your support. I will just concentrate on a little bit at a time and will get excellent in my own time.  I shouldn't compare myself to anyone here as I am always looking at people's vids or audio here and hear how they sound.   

So I was just surfing around on Youtube and came across Joe Satriani
playing with Funtwo.  Funtwo did his interpretation of Canon rock and made a quite a few mistakes in front of the world to see(starts at 1:53) but did he let that stop him.  Hell no!!  I guess I just have to get over these feelings of inadequacy and try my best.  Mistakes are a good thing not to be frowned upon  but they can also be pretty painful when you record yourself and play it back.  They can up your learning curve in a whole new way though

Licksnkicks. 






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mbarrett12

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2010, 12:06:07 am »
There's a pretty funny video of Slash making an absolute mess of the Welcome to The Jungle intro somewhere on YouTube, could be at the Ritz

Offline marcusmarkmus

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2010, 12:14:14 am »
There's a pretty funny video of Slash making an absolute mess of the Welcome to The Jungle intro somewhere on YouTube, could be at the Ritz

its actually not slash making the biggest mistake, as most people seem to believe. the one doing the mistake is Matt Sorum (drummer), which comes in to late, then slash turns around, and counts him in by bobbing his head while still playing that really hard intro riff. ofc, slash is drunk, and missing a couple of notes  :P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdqtxp0xNhc

but slash makes a mistake at the sweet child of mine intro here which is kinda funny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzKRcA8hCns

but I think slash is very good live, he does normally play very solid.
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mbarrett12

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2010
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2010, 01:04:16 am »
Sorry I was thinkin SCO'M, but said WTTJ.  I said Ritz I think, that's the part I was right about  :P

 

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