Author Topic: Multi effects pedal vs preamp pedal - FRFR/studio monitors vs guitar cabinet  (Read 2044 times)

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Offline lectric

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Hi all

I think I'm getting lost a bit in the "amplification" section. As far as I know, one can get a multi effects pedal like e.g. the Boss GT-100 and use it as follows: if you use the amp simulations, you 'd best use it with studio monitors or an FRFR/PA speaker. If you want to use it just as an effects pedal, you can use it via the FX-loop of your normal guitar amp. So far I follow everything.

I 've been looking at the Thomann-store and Youtube lately though and got confused. If you would want to buy a real and cheap amplifier (not a modeling amplifier!) like the HoTone Legacy or the Joyo Jackman, since these are real guitar amplifiers I would think these would need a real guitar cabinet, like the Harley Benton G112. A PA speaker (neither active or passive) would be of no use because as far as I understand, you need a real guitar speaker for a guitar amplifier. You couldn't use studio monitors either, since these are in most cases active speakers, and since they are not guitar cabs either. So far I can follow all too. But...

If one were to buy a preamp, like e.g. the AMT F1, or if you go way more expensive, the AMT SS-11A, what is the purpose of these? Are you supposed to/can you connect these to active FRFR/PA speakers (or passive with a normal amplifier in front) and studio monitors, are you supposed to connect these to the effects loop of a guitar amplifier? Or are you supposed to connect these first to some other kind of (guitar) amplifier?

Thanks for the replies!


lectric

Offline DarrellW

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I have a Hotone Mojo diamond, it’s a great little Fender sounding amp, you don’t have to plug it in to a speaker because it has speaker cab simulation on the headphone output, I use a HB 1x12 vintage celestion cab with mine when I want that option, you can use the headphone output to go into an interface so it should do what you want. Someone else may know better than I do, just wait for some more answers!

Offline Majik

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Welcome to the forums.

Firstly, yes you can use a guitar modelling system like the GT-100 into monitors or FRFR speakers, but it's not generally the recommended way to go. In general, it's normally recommended to have a "real" physical guitar amp of some sort. These are usually more appropriate for all sorts of reasons, but they tend to be easier to use, more convenient, and may sound better.

Roughly speaking, a conventional guitar amplifier approach comprises a preamp circuit feeding into a power amp driving a speaker housed in a cabinet. Every component of this chain is tailored to suit guitar frequencies and to colour the guitar sound in some way. Probably the part of this setup which has the least effect is the power amplifier, which is mainly there to amplify the signal levels so they can drive the speaker(s).

Conventionally there are two approaches:

A "combo amp" which combines all of these into a single unit. This is the most common
A separate "amp head" and "cabinet". The "amp head" contains the preamp and amp and the "cabinet" containes the speaker.

Note that conventional amps can be valve (tube) amps, solid state, digital modelling, or a hybrid (a combo of, for instance, valve and solid state).

To add to this, if you are recording a guitar, you would, conventionally, use a microphone and a mic preamp to record the amplifier. The resulting sound will be what we recognise on recordings, but isn't the same as the sound of an amp in the room with you, as the mic and preamps will colour the sound.

When you use a digital modelling system you are trying to model some or all of this. If you miss a key part of this out, it won't sound right.

For instance, if you plug a modelling system which has amp emulation, but not speaker cabinet emulation, into FRFR speakers it won't sound right. So if you go with this approach you need to make sure you have all parts of the conventional chain modelled (and that you know how to control them).

Alternatively you can put a modelling system such as the GT100 into either the front of a conventional guitar amp/cabinet setup and just use the effects options on the GT100, and use the preamp of the guitar amp to create that sound, or you can bypass the guitar amp preamp by plugging the GT100 into the return of the FX return. As I said, this bypasses the guitar amp's preamp which is the part of the circuit which has the most effect on the guitar tone. You can then use the GT100 amp emulation to get the sound of other guitar amps.

Personally if you really want this sort of flexibility I would suggest getting a digital modelling combo amp, as it's a lot easier than faffing with trying to build it out of individual components.

Cheers,

Keith

Offline Majik

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More specifically...

If you would want to buy a real and cheap amplifier (not a modeling amplifier!) like the HoTone Legacy or the Joyo Jackman, since these are real guitar amplifiers I would think these would need a real guitar cabinet, like the Harley Benton G112. A PA speaker (neither active or passive) would be of no use because as far as I understand, you need a real guitar speaker for a guitar amplifier. You couldn't use studio monitors either, since these are in most cases active speakers, and since they are not guitar cabs either.

Correct. They are missing the speaker and cabinet emulation which means that, whilst you might be able to connect a line out to a PA or monitor/FRFR speakers, they won't sound right. That is assuming they have a line out. Normally they are designed to connect to, and drive, a passive speaker. The speaker output definitely CANNOT be connected to a mixer/PA or FRFR speaker.

Quote
If one were to buy a preamp, like e.g. the AMT F1, or if you go way more expensive, the AMT SS-11A, what is the purpose of these?

These are preamps. They are designed to be used in conjunction with conventional amps either in the front end (chaining the pedal preamp with the guitar amps preamp) or via the effects loop (bypassing the guitar amp preamp).These do have a speaker simulation mode so you could push the output of these into a mixer and onto a PA, or into a FRFR setup.

Cheers,

Keith

Offline Majik

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If you would want to buy a real and cheap amplifier (not a modeling amplifier!) like the HoTone Legacy or the Joyo Jackman, since these are real guitar amplifiers I would think these would need a real guitar cabinet, like the Harley Benton G112. A PA speaker (neither active or passive) would be of no use because as far as I understand, you need a real guitar speaker for a guitar amplifier. You couldn't use studio monitors either, since these are in most cases active speakers, and since they are not guitar cabs either.

EDIT: it looks like some of these do have speaker emulated outputs. The question is how good they are. Historically these haven't been very good and there is no option to change them if they don't work well. Ideally, if you are going this route you should get a decent speaker cabinet emulation capability with loadable IR profiles, else you may be disappointed by the sound.

That is actually the biggest issue with such a setup: it may look good on paper, but there's no way to know what it will sound like (or how much hassle it is to use) until you try it. At least with a conventional amp you can watch reviews, or go and visit a store and try it out.

Cheers,

Keith

Offline lectric

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I have a Hotone Mojo diamond, it’s a great little Fender sounding amp, you don’t have to plug it in to a speaker because it has speaker cab simulation on the headphone output, I use a HB 1x12 vintage celestion cab with mine when I want that option, you can use the headphone output to go into an interface so it should do what you want. Someone else may know better than I do, just wait for some more answers!

The Diamond is one of those ams I seem to like! The Attack appeals to me as well, it's a combination of the Diamond and the Heart Attack.

For some reason I don't really like playing guitar with headphones... the cable does seem to get in the way all the time. I think I would need to try another pair of headphones with a longer cable so I can put it behind my back. The speaker you are referring too is also the one I mentioned. Are these Hotones in combination with that speaker good for bedroom volumes? Or does it get too loud?

Thanks!

Offline DarrellW

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The Diamond is one of those ams I seem to like! The Attack appeals to me as well, it's a combination of the Diamond and the Heart Attack.
For some reason I don't really like playing guitar with headphones... the cable does seem to get in the way all the time. I think I would need to try another pair of headphones with a longer cable so I can put it behind my back. The speaker you are referring too is also the one I mentioned. Are these Hotones in combination with that speaker good for bedroom volumes? Or does it get too loud?
Thanks!
It’s as loud as you want it to be, a 12” speaker does shift more air but it’s quite tolerant of low volumes. The Hotone amp is only 5W solid state so it’s a lot more tolerant of low volume levels than a similar wattage valve amp, so in simple terms yes it will cope quite well at low volume!

Offline lectric

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Keith

Thanks for the deep explanations.

With regards to the GT-100 etc... You say that it's typically not recommended to use them into monitors or FRFR speakers. Can you elaborate on this? I thought that was the whole point of this kind of multi effect systems, because amp & cab sims are built into these units. My initial idea was to get a GT-10 (older version of the GT-100) and for starters use it with headphones, to later use it in conjunction with studio monitors or a monitor wedge (I have a 15" Peavey active monitor wedge, but I can 't get to it right now - long story. More specific a Peavey Eurosys 15PM in case you want to check the monitor). I had read that if you use the amp- & cabsimulations of the GT-10 (and alike), it's not advisable to use these with guitar amps, but rather with FRFR or PA-speakers.

With regards to the Joyo and HoTone amps --> not to be used with PA-speakers/FRFR, but only with guitar cabinets?

"EDIT: it looks like some of these do have speaker emulated outputs. The question is how good they are. Historically these haven't been very good and there is no option to change them if they don't work well. Ideally, if you are going this route you should get a decent speaker cabinet emulation capability with loadable IR profiles, else you may be disappointed by the sound." --> I suppose "with going this route" you mean using one of these in combination with a FRFR speaker?

Thanks!

Offline lectric

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It’s as loud as you want it to be, a 12” speaker does shift more air but it’s quite tolerant of low volumes. The Hotone amp is only 5W solid state so it’s a lot more tolerant of low volume levels than a similar wattage valve amp, so in simple terms yes it will cope quite well at low volume!
OK, thanks! I was a bit affraid of that, since the 15" speaker I have (see my other post) is stacked away somewhere. I bought that a véry long time ago to amplify me e-drums at home and it really didn't sound OK. When used the first time with my band I was in back in those days, I told the guys of my band I was planning on selling it, our guitarplayer said I was crazy if I were to do that because he thougt it sounded só good. I thought it sounded bad because it only goes down to I think 80 Hz, so I thought for drums I needed lower frequencies too. So my guess is (it is a 150 Watt amp) that either it doesn't go low enough, and/or that I just needed to crank it more to allow the 15" woofer to move the air needed... Up till today I still don't know why it sounded bad for home use - as said, it's stacked away somewhere at the moment, and I can't really easy get to it...

Offline Majik

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With regards to the GT-100 etc... You say that it's typically not recommended to use them into monitors or FRFR speakers. Can you elaborate on this? I thought that was the whole point of this kind of multi effect systems, because amp & cab sims are built into these units.

It's mainly because it's not going to sound like an amp in the room. One of the things I forgot to mention is that a lot of the emulated outputs emulate not just the cabinet, but the microphone setup. In other words, the sound you get from them will sound like a recording of a guitar amp, rather than a guitar amp.

This might be fine for you, but be aware that dialing in (for example) a Vox AC30 model into FRFR speakers is not going to sound exactly like playing through an AC30 in the room with you. It will be quite close but different.

The other thing is it's quite a faffy setup and, as I said before, it's not something you can easily test before you commit to it. Standard guitar amps are relatively simple to use and you can relatively easily get a good understanding of what you are going to get when you buy them.

Most of the people I know who use guitar multifx systems for performance use actually use them into either the front or the FX loop of a guitar amp (or a combination of both - 4 cable method). But there again I think most of these people are using them for the multifx capabilities more than anything else, and don't really use the amp emulation. Frankly, in a performance situation, nailing a specific amp tone for a given song is not that important. The only person in the room who will notice or care will be the guitar player. I get the impression most experienced guitar players really only care strongly about emulating specific amps when recording.

And if you really care about emulating amp models, then the far easier and tried/tested route is to get a modelling amp.

Quote
With regards to the Joyo and HoTone amps --> not to be used with PA-speakers/FRFR, but only with guitar cabinets?

Driving guitar cabinets what they are designed for. They include both a pre-amp and a power amp just like any other guitar amp head. They can be used with headphones and have emulated line outputs so they can be used directly into a PA or powered FRFR system, but they are designed primarily to drive a passive guitar speaker, such as the Harley Benton G112.

Quote
I suppose "with going this route" you mean using one of these in combination with a FRFR speaker?

Yes, exactly.

Cheers,

Keith

Offline Joerfe

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I’ll get back to you on this subject as I do have quite some experience with the frfr and modeler route.
Just this short message as a reminder to myself. Not posting a lengthy post on the 31st of December.
/Jesper

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Boss GT-1000, Line6 Powercab 100

Offline Joerfe

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Here is a description of my setup which is guitar>Boss GT-1000>Line 6 Powercab 100.

My reasoning behind this setup is that I like the convenience in being free to select my combination of sound, pre-amp and speaker emulation.

The GT-1000 offer a multitude of pre-amps which, for the most parts, brings the sound in the realm of a lot of classic valve amps, but it also contains unique boss amp sounds which are not emulating specific amps.

But it also has different cabinet/speaker settings to emulate well known speaker types and the ability to load custom ir’s if needed.
This is great with the Powercab 100 which is frfr. The Powercab does contain 6 preset speaker emulations plus the frfr option that I use.

When using the GT-1000 the way I do, it is a big step up from the GT-100 and other previous multi effect units from Boss. The last 3-5 years has really been a huge step in amp and speaker emulation which is also seen in the Helix and similar other systems.
But if you would use it as a pedal board only, the difference is not so big.

When playing cover music which I do, I think this combination is great. It provides the ability to setup individual patches which can take me from cleans in the realm of Dire Straits to the dirty sounds of Guns’n Roses by just changing a foot switch.
I enjoy having a Fender amp in one song, a Marshall for another and a Bogner for another, etc.

“In the realm of” is a key word here.
You can get really really close to “the real deal” by changing parameters, as it offers a plethora of settings. But this doesn’t really interest me, as I like the basic sounds of the unit tweaked just a little.
Other users like to get as close as possible, but as Keith wrote earlier this is not something that the audience would ever notice.

Venues around here often provides a PA system to avoid a loud back line setup. Playing through a PA offers a better sound to the audience and a way to mix the instruments more balanced compared to roaring amps at stage. This way the total sound level can be less loud and at the same time sound better.
The GT-1000 has output to the mixing console as well as output to an amp on stage for monitoring purposes. And, if I wanted to, I can use one output setting to the PA and another to my speaker on stage.

Having all these possibilities in such a small setup requires you to dig into the possibilities and this can be a daunting task compared to your classic guitar>pedal>amp>cabinet setup.
But if you are somewhat technically inclined it really is a powerful tool.
/Jesper

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Offline lectric

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Thanks a lot for the information! I'll sketch my background a bit in order to explain my reasoning with going the GT-10 route...

I'm basically a drummer, learning how to play guitar. And as a drummer, I play an electric kit at home, non amplified at the moment, just with headphones. I 've always wanted to amplify my drums at home too, but circumstances didn't allow me, this will finally change in a few months. So my initial thoughts were to buy a set of studio monitors with a subwoofer (since with the 15" active speaker I have now stacked away, I lacked bottome end), and use the studio monitors for amplifying the drums and using it to amplify my guitar through the GT-10. I really don't like guitar through headphones for some reason (and my headphone cable rubs my strings all the time)...

Also, I've come to learn that it's going to take me some time to learn the GT-10... time I'd rather spend on learning the guitar. So lately I was looking at the Harley Benton G112 cabinet, and thinking about one of the HoTone small heads, or a Joyo small head, thinking that íf one day I'd like to use effects, I can always connect the GT-10 to it because they have an effects loop.

- What would be the advantage of going with amp and speaker (apart from price and being less complicated)?
- What on the other hand would be the advantage of sticking with the GT-10 and studio monitors/PA speaker?
- I have been looking at the Boss Katana 100 MkII as well, would that 've been a better solution than buying the GT-10? I assume the GT-10 is capable of more than the Katana, or am I wrong?
- Is there a reason to use a Katana i.c.w. a GT-10 or something similar?
- Why would one want a 1 x 12, or a 2 x 12 speaker for home use?
- In case one would buy an amplifier, is there a reason to opt for a 1 channel amp instead of a 2 channel amp?

A HoTone Nano Legacy British Invasion can be bought for 69 €, a HoTone Mojo Attack Pedal amp (combination of the HoTone Diamand (81 €) and the Hotone Heart Attack (81 €) can be bought for 175 €.   The Harley Benton G112 speaker cabinet can be bought for 133 €. Is there a reason why one would opt for e.g. the HoTone Mojo Attack + Harley Benton G112 which is +/- 300 € instead of the Boss Katana 100 MkII which costs 359 € when we leave the GT-10 out of the equation? And what would be the reason to go with one of these 2 options when we consider the future use of the GT-10? If I were to buy an amp, my initial thought was to go with the British Invasion one because of the price i.c.m. with the aforementioned speaker cabinet. But I seem to like the Diamond sound and the Heart Attack and since the Attack Pedal amp combines these 2 in one pedal... But then of course the price comes already in the region of the Katana 100 MkII...

Thanks for the explications and thoughts!

Offline Joerfe

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- What would be the advantage of going with amp and speaker (apart from price and being less complicated)?
This is the least complicared setup as you mention.
Connect the cables and you are good to go.
But it is also somewhat of a one trick pony which is fine if you like the Sound and if you do not Care for changing sounds when playing other genres.
To “match” the GT-10 setup you will need a volume pedal and a tuner.

- What on the other hand would be the advantage of sticking with the GT-10 and studio monitors/PA speaker?
The GT-10 has build-in tuner and volume pedal plus a number of effects readily available. Not that you should focus on effects while in the early stages of learning, but they can help your practice motivation quite a bit.
- how well the GT-10 simulates pre-amp and power amp I cannot say. I never used one.
- a little more complicated than the amp/speaker route but you are probably proficient with your electric drums so that may help you along. And it is a good learning platform if you decide to go the multi effect route later on.


- I have been looking at the Boss Katana 100 MkII as well, would that 've been a better solution than buying the GT-10? I assume the GT-10 is capable of more than the Katana, or am I wrong?

The Katana is great. I used to have one until I went frfr.
It does pack a lot of effects but you will need the gf-fc to activate the effects.
It does not offer tuner and volume pedal like the GT-10 does, but the Katana should sound better.

- Is there a reason to use a Katana i.c.w. a GT-10 or something similar?
- Why would one want a 1 x 12, or a 2 x 12 speaker for home use?
- In case one would buy an amplifier, is there a reason to opt for a 1 channel amp instead of a 2 channel amp?

GT-10 could be used as a pedal board for the Katana. That would give you instant access to your effects, a tuner and a volume pedal.

1x12 or 2x12......? It just sounds better to my ears than smaller speakers. 1x12” would be plenty for both home use and smaller gigs....2x12..... My Katana was 2x12 and it was LOUD!!!

1 or two channel amps is a matter of personal preferences.
1 channel is usually clean and the other is a crunch, a lead or a high gain channel depending on the brand/model.
Some like a pedal to create the crunch/lead sound etc on a clean channel. Others use the build-in second channel.
It all comes down to whether you like the sound of the amp or not.
I would personally go with a good clean amp with one channel and get pedals, but that’s me. You can still do this on a two channel amp

I cannot comment on your last questions as I am not familiar with the equipment nor the brands.
/Jesper

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Boss GT-1000, Line6 Powercab 100

Offline DarrellW

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I would personally go with a good clean amp with one channel and get pedals, but that’s me. You can still do this on a two channel amp
Agreed, this was my reasoning behind the Hotone Diamond, it’s a very nice Fender clean amp tone with fx loop, I’ve got a few Donner cheap fx pedals the sound pretty decent especially considering their price and I’m happy as a box of frogs 😂😂😂 The HB vintage 1x12 is unreal for its price, it’s a great inexpensive setup!

Offline Majik

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To echo some of the others, the main reason I would go for a traditional amp over building something with an FRFR is it's a much simpler, "plug and play" setup.

A small head (Orange Micro Terror, Joyo, HoTone, etc.) into a cab like the G112 is one option for this. It will "limit" your tonal options compared to some of the amp modelling solutions but, really, those "limits" are not something you should care about at this point. Millions of guitar players have, managed with the "limit" of having one amp for decades, including almost every band you have ever heard of, and most of them are very happy with it.

In fact adding the versatility of being able to select from dozens of different amp models brings it's own challenges, including complexity of operation and the tyranny of choice. It's a rabbit hole that you can very easily get lost in, when you should be learning to play.

And, frankly, I would put money on you not being able to tell the difference between most of these amp models anyway.

You might think you need all these amp emulation options but, frankly, as a beginner you don't. Personally I think the ability to model dozens of different amps is a big red-herring for beginners, a complete distraction.

The other, slightly more flexible, option is something like a Katana. The Katana is a modelling amp but, unlike many others, it doesn't specifically try to emulate dozens of other amps. The Katana is, basically, an amp in it's own right with it's own set of tones. And whereas many traditional analogue amps have 2 channels (typically "clean" and "dirty"), the Katana basically has 4: Clean, crunch, lead, and "Brown" (high gain). The mkII version also doubles with with a "variation" for each setting. On top of this, it has all of the FX that the GT-10 has and, probably, a few more.

As Joerfe says, you will really need the GA-FX footswitch to make best use of this. You can, also, buy an expression pedal to plug into the GA-FX or to the amp itself to use as a volume control or for controlling wah, pitchbend, modulation depth, etc.

In my view, a Katana 50 or 100 with a GA-FC and, perhaps, an expression pedal and a cheap clip-on tuner would give you everything you need: headphone use, low-volume bedroom use, all the tonal options you will need as a beginner and then some, including all the effects you will need (certainly for a year or two and beyond) without having to buy additional pedals, the ability to use it for band rehearsals or gigs, and all in a convenient, pretty portable package.

Note that the Katana 100 is more flexible than the 50 as it has an FX-loop so you can use that for a looper pedal or, in 2-3 years time when you have developed some skill as a guitar player and some experience of what all this amp tone stuff is all about, if and when you decide you want to  experiment more with amp tones, you can bypass the Katana pre-amp and connect whatever pre-amp/modelling system in you like.

You can also use either the 50 or 100 for band rehearsals or even gigging.

The alternative in your list is the small amp head and cabinet. Out of the box this will work really well for you as it will be easy to use and will offer you some great tonal options. Possibly it will give you all the tonal options you need as a beginner although, depending on the amp head, you may need to supplement it with an drive pedal (e.g. overdrive or distortion) if you want higher gain tones. This could be a simple analogue drive pedal or a modelling system like the GT10.

Note that the vast majority of people plug systems like the GT10 into the front of their amplifiers, NOT into the effects loop. The primary use of these units is to provide stuff like distortion, overdrives, delays, modulations and reverbs. I honestly don't think an FX loop is important for you in such a setup.

The only thing I would say about the small amp-head solution is that it does make the setup slightly messier if you do want to add effects in the future, as you need to worry about individual pedals, cabling, and power supplies and that can be a bit of a minefield. I have done tech support for a gigging band and the biggest technical issues I encounter tend to be external pedal wiring and power.

The beauty of the Katana is it has all that built in. The other thing is most of these smaller amp heads are less suitable for band rehearsals or gigging.

Cheers,

Keith


Offline Majik

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I was thinking about this, and it is interesting to compare this thread with another recent thread on these forums.

I think in both cases the questions come from people just starting out on their guitar journey and who have invested a lot of time and research into the question of what amp solution is best.

In both cases the posters seem to be considering options which assume future requirements.

Both posters seems to have come to different (almost polar extreme) initial conclusions about what they should get:

In this thread the OP start off looking at a solution completely based on modelling with FRFR speakers.

In the other thread the OP started off assuming that modelling=bad, tube=good and that they needed a fairly high-end tube amp even though it would primarily only be used with headphones.

Personally I think both approaches are wrong for a beginner.

I think it goes to show what a minefield this stuff can be to new players, and why forums like this are so useful.

Cheers,

Keith

Offline Joerfe

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I agree with you, Keith.

In the case of a new(ish) player I would recommend just a small modeling amp. The Katana or similar.
It is a great way to get an amp with effects for little money.

This way one gets a feel for the opportunities without having to invest in pedals which is also a rabbit hole.

One thing is for sure. Equipment will be exchanged and upgraded along the path of playing the guitar, there is no chance (imho) that what you buy 1st year in is the same equipment you play after 5 years.

Keep it simple and spend your time learning the basics of the instrument.
/Jesper

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Offline lectric

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Thanks all for the replies and sorry for not getting back earlier, I've been quite busy lately. And the time I had I spent on the guitar... that's the point after all  :).

I see that the GT-10 could be used as a pedal board for the Katana. But that does mean the Katana has way less effects than a multieffects board? Or that the dedicated effects in the GT-x are better than the ones in the Katana?

Joerfe, you said you had a 2x12 Katana and that it was loud. Do you mean you cán play it loud, or you háve to play it loud to get a decent sound?

As you said Keith, I don't need all these options at the moment, right now I just need to play. Just plug the guitar in and play... I opted for the GT-10, thinking about the future already, thinking that I'll immediately have whatever I máy want/need in the future. But I really don't like playing the guitar with headphones...

In case of going the Katana route, one day or the next, I don't think I'll need a volume pedal, since if I'm not mistaken I can use the GT-10's one for that.

If I were to opt for a Katana, it would be the 100 instead of the 50, just because of the FX-loop. I was just thinking about the 100 vs the Head... What is the reason the Head is more expensive? As far as I see, it doesn't offer anything the 100 doesn't so I guess I'm missing out on something... Just thinking out loud, buying the Harley Benton G112 with HoTone Diamond, would leave me the option of buying the Katana Head in the future... Or vice versa, fist the Head and afterwards the Diamond. If I were to buy the Katana 100 MkII and afterwards I would want the Diamond, I would again have to buy seperate speakers. So I'm more inclined to buy the Head instead of the 100.

Joerfe --> "keep it simple and spend your time learning the basics of the instrument". Indeed, that 's why I like the idea of the G112 + Diamond. On the other hand, I'm also thinking future wise (hence the initial purchase of the GT10). If I were to stay with the GT-10 at the moment, what would be the advantage pure home use!) of buying a PA-speaker instead of a pair of studio monitors (see also my plan to amplify my drums). For some reason I 've always seemed to be drawn to studio monitors... they not only can take a beating from an instrument, but also give a high quality sound, you can easily use them on the computer and they don't take up to much space...

I've tested the Adam Audio A7's a very long time ago, I really liked those... When they were discontinued, I was drawn to the A7X's, or even the A77X's - that are most likely overkill, unless used in the living room as well I guess, and still. The last few years I read a lot of very positive things about the Eve monitors and the Hedd monitors. Now recently I saw the Swissonic ASM7 monitors (Thomann's own brand). Anyone have experience with these? How to they hold up against Adam Audio, EVE, Hedd? They are way cheaper, but Thomann's own brand always seems to be very good...

Thanks again!


Edit: thanks for mentioning that other thread, I've been following that one as well.

Offline Joerfe

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Joerfe, you said you had a 2x12 Katana and that it was loud. Do you mean you cán play it loud, or you háve to play it loud to get a decent sound?

The Katana is indeed very loud when it needs to be. But because of the 0.5w setting it can also play surprisingly quiet.
It does change the sound a bit when playing at family friendly levels, but to be honest.... you don't get a 100w 2x12 to play at that low levels....

I often thought to myself that for my use, in the rehearsal space, at gigs and at home that 1x12 100w would be plenty. With the 2x12 I never used the 100w mode, but only the 50w and never at more than halfway up on the master volume. Even in a band setup!

A Katana 100w (due to the added functionalities compared to the 50w) combined with a GT-10 will set you up for a long time. You would even be able to use that setup in a band setting.
For the effects I think the two are quite similar, I think I read that once one the "thegearpage.com" where you will find a bunch of Roland/Boss gear heads. But the GT-10 makes it easier to change and adjust the effects than on the Katana.

The GT-10 provides you with a tuner and a volume pedal which is useful, but I suggest to use the Katanas pre-amps as they are better sounding than the on-board pre-amps on the GT-10 due to newer technology on the Katana.
/Jesper

Sigma SOMR28H, Fender Classic '50s Tele, Tokai Les Paul Reborn 2010, Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded TB 'Slash specs'.
Boss GT-1000, Line6 Powercab 100

Offline Majik

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As Joerfe said, the Katana and GT-10 have similar effects. You would be duplicating a lot by having both.

On the Katana, a selection of the more popular and useful effects are available from the top panel, but to access most of the Katana effects and to tweak them, you need to connect it to a PC and use their Tone Studio app.

The GT-10 you can control all of the effects from the unit itself, although this will involve a lot of diving through menus on a small LCD screen. It's not the most user-friendly thing. The GT-10 is quite old now, and doesn't support the newer Tone Studio software, but there is a PC "Librarian" app you can use to load and save patches, but it doesn't look like it supports editing.

Personally, if you are considering a Katana, I would start with just the Katana and the GA-FC footswitch and experiment with that and the PC app. I wouldn't get an external effects pedal until I had assessed whether the Katana alone does what is needed. That will give you a bunch of effects and footswitch control, easy (easier than the GT-10) editing capability on the PC app, USB direct recording capability, and either headphone or non-headphone use.

Cheers,

Keith

Offline Majik

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I notice somewhere down the line we started talking about the GT-10 rather than the GT-100. I suspect we are talking about the GT-100 as that is the more modern unit. The GT-10 is quite old and limited now.

Cheers,

Keith

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Offline Joerfe

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I notice somewhere down the line we started talking about the GT-10 rather than the GT-100. I suspect we are talking about the GT-100 as that is the more modern unit. The GT-10 is quite old and limited now.

Both units are offering the same functionalities with a few variations. So op will need to do a side-by-side comparison to figure out which one he prefers.
/Jesper

Sigma SOMR28H, Fender Classic '50s Tele, Tokai Les Paul Reborn 2010, Gibson Les Paul Standard Faded TB 'Slash specs'.
Boss GT-1000, Line6 Powercab 100

Offline lectric

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Very interesting responses, thanks! I was a bit surprised to read first that the GT-10 makes it easier to change and adjust effects than the Katana, since on the Katana you can select things on the amp itself... So I was a bit surprised to read that delving into menu's on the GT-10 was easier. But it makes sense indeed, if you are referring to PC and Tone Studio, I think that complicates things...

Keith, you are right, I started the thread with mentioning the GT-100 (as an example), I thought it was best not to start with using the GT-10 in case new guitarplayers would read the thread and start looking for the GT-10 in shops, only to find it's an older pedal. I did however buy the GT-10 (actually kind of new with warranty, although I think in the end I may have paid a bit too much for it). I opted for the GT-10 instead of the GT-100 because I read on a few places that the GT-10 seems to be better... on the other hand, I've read in the meantime other things that say the GT-100 is indeed better (as it actually should be) than the GT-10. I did find a youtube video however where I also found (as is said in the comments as well) that the GT-10 sounds better, and that the GT-100 is dull in comparison. However, the guitar player playing the GT-100 used this fingers, the other one on the GT-10 used a pick... I opted for this unit because it's an old flagship model, ánd it comes with a volume pedal ánd a tuner ánd a looper. The looper was one of the important things for me, since on justinguitar, Justin also mentions the importance of a looper. Since I'm new to guitar playing, I didn't want to spend the money on a GT-1000 obviously.

Offline Majik

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Very interesting responses, thanks! I was a bit surprised to read first that the GT-10 makes it easier to change and adjust effects than the Katana, since on the Katana you can select things on the amp itself... So I was a bit surprised to read that delving into menu's on the GT-10 was easier. But it makes sense indeed, if you are referring to PC and Tone Studio, I think that complicates things...

I'm not sure. You may have misunderstood me...

Controlling basic effects on the Katana will be MUCH easier than trying to control them on the GT-10 as, on the Katana, you just have a knob to twist to select the effect level, and a button to step through the three options. It is a much simplified interface.

However, more complex effects selections and parameters on the Katana just is not possible, whilst on the GT-10 it IS possible. But it will be fairly tricky as the menus are fairly complex to navigate (I have a JS-8 which has a similar interface and the same effects/modelling engine).

On the Katana you have the option of using the Tone Studio software on the PC which makes it very easy to control every aspect of the Katana including which effects, effect order, levels of all parameters, etc. On the GT-10 you do not have this option, so you are forced to deal with the menus on the unit itself.

Overall, I would say the Katana is much easier to control than the GT-10.

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Keith, you are right, I started the thread with mentioning the GT-100 (as an example), I thought it was best not to start with using the GT-10 in case new guitarplayers would read the thread and start looking for the GT-10 in shops, only to find it's an older pedal. I did however buy the GT-10 (actually kind of new with warranty, although I think in the end I may have paid a bit too much for it).

Ah, somehow I missed you had actually already bought one. My posts were mainly considering the situation where you hadn't actually purchased anything yet. You seemed to be considering the GT-100, and then the GT-10.

If you hadn't bought anything at yet, and you were considering whether to buy a GT-10 with a Katana, or just a Katana alone, I would say buy the Katana alone. The GT-10 can be used with the Katana (as it can with any amp) but really as far as effects, the Katana can do most of what the GT-10 can, and the Katana is far easier to use. However, if you wanted a looper you would need to buy that separately (although it then gives you the option to buy a much better looper than the one in the GT-10), and you would need the Katana 100 to give you an FX loop to connect the looper to.

If you already have the GT-10 and want to stick with it, then get a simple amp like the Diamond/G112 combo.

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I opted for the GT-10 instead of the GT-100 because I read on a few places that the GT-10 seems to be better... on the other hand, I've read in the meantime other things that say the GT-100 is indeed better (as it actually should be) than the GT-10. I did find a youtube video however where I also found (as is said in the comments as well) that the GT-10 sounds better, and that the GT-100 is dull in comparison. However, the guitar player playing the GT-100 used this fingers, the other one on the GT-10 used a pick...

Frankly, there's a lot of opinionated chatter and nonsense on the Internet. Every time a new version of any pedal or amp comes out, there will be a dark corner of the Internet that claims it's not as good as the original. Of course, in some cases that is true, but mostly it is not. What I do think is that, with some of these devices, the owners get used to how they sound, and any deviation from that is considered "bad".

But there are also, for instance, rumors that persist on the Internet regarding a change in manufacturing process on a chip in a distortion pedal which some people will swear they can hear, even though the only actual manufacturing change was to change the printing on the IC case.

Frankly, people hear what they want to hear and, it's often said, people hear with their eyes more than they do with their ears. And, of course, the Internet is full of trolls who are just trying to stir up trouble and arguments.

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I opted for this unit because it's an old flagship model, ánd it comes with a volume pedal ánd a tuner ánd a looper.[ The looper was one of the important things for me, since on justinguitar, Justin also mentions the importance of a looper. Since I'm new to guitar playing, I didn't want to spend the money on a GT-1000 obviously.

Personally, I would have suggested the GT-1. It's newer technology which sounds better (it has much of the technology of the GT-100 in it), its cheaper, and has the volume/expression pedal, tuner, and a looper. And if you need to you can add two more foot-switches. It also uses the PC Tone Studio which makes editing patches easy.

Having said that, the GT-10 is pretty good and, combined with a simple amp, should give you plenty to play with.

Cheers,

Keith

 

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