Author Topic: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)  (Read 1618 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online tobyjenner

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 4048
  • Good Vibes 165
  • You're never too old to Rock'n'Roll
Re: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2020, 10:28:26 am »
Quote
Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan “press on” has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.

– Calvin Coolidge
Arrived here Mar 2013 Since completed BC, RUST 1 & 2, IM and MTMS Now on Blues Rhythm and Blues Lead
My Soundcloud : https://soundcloud.com/tobyjenner/
Roadcase : https://justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=39537.msg339454#msg33945

Online DarrellW

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 3081
  • Good Vibes 160
  • Black country bloke, ijut intollerant 😂
Re: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2020, 10:29:12 am »
There’s a word missing from the discussion, it’s aptitude! Aptitude plus practice and patience equals talent if you’re diligent. The main adjunct that is mandatory is a love for music and the instrument, without this it won’t work.
Still here, still learning - no longer letting Fibromyalgia get in the way, it sucks but doesn’t have to mean your life stops!

Offline Majik

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 2511
  • Good Vibes 189
    • My Road Case
Re: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2020, 11:54:07 am »
I think there's another word missing: luck.

A huge amount of what makes people successful comes down to luck, even going back to when and where they were born and lived, and to what sort of family.

Luck can be good and bad, but it still influences. If Jimi Hendrix had a more stable, happy, comfortable childhood, or a father less encouraging of him playing the guitar, would he have become the Hendrix we know today?

But, a lot of the musician heroes we know today had the luck of being recognized, of getting into the right bands, of getting the opportunities to work as session musicians, getting good record deals., etc.

And, yes, this only comes with aptitude, a lot of hard work, and some risk taking. But luck also plays a bit part: for every superstar musician who is a household name, there's probably countless equally talented, equally hard-working musicians who didn't get the breaks.

Cheers,

Keith

Offline sairfingers

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1131
  • Good Vibes 72
  • 󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿The guitar is the coolest instrument in the world
Re: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2020, 01:08:35 pm »
I think there's another word missing: luck.
The South African golfer Gary Player has a famous quote, “the more I practice the luckier I get.”

But you’re right. There has to be an element of being in the right place at the right time.
BC (classic) completed, now on Intermediate Course, Folk Fingerstyle and Blues modules. Pickin’ an’ lickin’.....😎
Martin D28 : Gibson SG : Boss Katana 50.

Offline DavidP

  • All Time Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 6112
  • Good Vibes 338
  • You're always learning about guitars-Keef Richards
Re: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2020, 01:22:02 pm »
I think once one starts to also talk about success vs just mastery (in terms of the pursuit of plus level attainable and attained) then a whole bunch of other variables come into play... luck, timing, choices made ... in addition to level of mastery.

Offline J.W.C.

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1252
  • Good Vibes 75
Re: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2020, 08:32:39 pm »
There’s a word missing from the discussion, it’s aptitude!

We mentioned aptitude up-thread.  :)

Online DarrellW

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 3081
  • Good Vibes 160
  • Black country bloke, ijut intollerant 😂
Re: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)
« Reply #31 on: October 10, 2020, 09:15:37 pm »
We mentioned aptitude up-thread.  :)
Oops 😬
Still here, still learning - no longer letting Fibromyalgia get in the way, it sucks but doesn’t have to mean your life stops!

Offline DavidP

  • All Time Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 6112
  • Good Vibes 338
  • You're always learning about guitars-Keef Richards
Re: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2020, 07:00:43 am »
And the difference between aptitude and inate ability would be ?

Though maybe I'm flogging the proverbial dead horse now  :o

Offline licksnkicks

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 3122
  • Good Vibes 53
Re: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2020, 03:04:20 pm »
It’s called obsessive passion! I have been playing for 10 yrs and I think I have missed 5 days. I play everyday and all day on weekends. I don’t know if I am talented or not but I am creative and driven to succeed. I am excited everyday to play.
Boss Katana 1X12 100W Vox DA5 CL amp, Gibson SG Standard, Parker Nitefly electric/accoustic guitar,  Parker P-38 SA electric/accoustic guitar,  Academy electric custom guitar,  0 tolerance 4 stupidity

Offline licksnkicks

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 3122
  • Good Vibes 53
Re: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2020, 05:13:59 pm »
It’s called obsessive passion! I have been playing for 10 yrs and I think I have missed 5 days. I play everyday and all day on weekends. I don’t know if I am talented or not but I am creative and driven to succeed. I am excited everyday to play.
Boss Katana 1X12 100W Vox DA5 CL amp, Gibson SG Standard, Parker Nitefly electric/accoustic guitar,  Parker P-38 SA electric/accoustic guitar,  Academy electric custom guitar,  0 tolerance 4 stupidity

Offline Twilight Storm

  • Pub Night Playa
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
  • Good Vibes 6
  • I kinda suck at music, but that doesn't stop me!
Re: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2020, 09:46:30 pm »
Had a passion for music since I was really little. Many, many, events discouraged me from actually playing music, and I knew I'd never make it as a profession because of all the people better then me. I actually even stopped listening to music for over 10 years until 2 years ago. (Music really can die in someone, first hand experience here.)

Passion is definitely #1 most important thing though.

Willingness to put the hard work in towards the passion is equally important. As a kid the experiences I had, outweighed the passion and just stomped my passion to death, but I can't change the past, and i'm doing it now which is making me happy.

As for natural talent, it exists. I surely DON'T have any natural talent in music. Some prodigies quit though, when their natural talent runs out and it turns into work.

On op #1) Yes! I've fallen asleep practicing many times. It's funny to wake up and be in playing position. (Fingerstyle) I also learned NEVER fall asleep recording. I (no joke) needed help removing myself from the cables in the morning I was tangled in the cables so securely I couldn't get free. This amused everyone except me at the time, and it's a great way to strangle yourself or cut off circulation or something.... I can't see this experience doing much towards helping me towards getting "good" but at least I have the box checked just incase! 😂😂 I've also got the "starving artist" box checked, so if that's important as well, i'm ahead in the game lol!

Op #2) Definitely have the passion, and a drive to work at it, especially since the internet opened avenues that just weren't there growing up.

Op #3) I don't set out to challenge myself on purpose, but I haven't found anything yet that wasn't a challenge in music. Honestly I'd freaking love something to just be nice and easy but nothing is. I'm not the brightest bulb in the box though. Never was. However I still have the "I can play that if I try!" Attitude which might just be a phase of learning. I also know I can't physically do some things, but I haven't fully given up trying to find ways around it all yet. I take breaks looking though when my discouragement level peaks.

Now will I ever become "great?" Dunno. I'm still really looking forward to just hitting the learning stage where we THINK we're awesome but we're not. I'll take thinking i'm great for a short time before the bubble bursts. :) If I end up there i'll have hit some kind of personal self imposed minimum level of skill, so it will be like celebrating a milestone. (Just obnoxiously probably, but i'll still take it, and love it, and hug it, and squeeze it, and name it George! 👍)




Just a noob who likes diminished chords and songs that use them.

Electric Guitar - Yamaha Pacifica - 012 DLX. (SSH)

Guitalele - Yamaha GL-1

Offline redrhodie

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1839
  • Good Vibes 91
Re: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2020, 12:46:44 pm »
The thing that always comes to mind when thinking about talent, was an autobiography I read by the Russian ballerina Natalia Makarova. When she was a child in the Soviet Union, some people came to her school and took measurements of all the kids' bodies, looked at their feet, and measured physical things like extensions, turnout, and ability to point their toes. Then they placed kids in ballet school based solely on those measurements, and not whether they were musical or wanted to dance. They physically had to fit. Talent wasn't even considered. They were considered the best dancers, so maybe there's something to that? You might have an easier time becoming proficient if you are built for the thing you are trying to do? Or is that a pile of *¢÷×?

We know of people who don't fit the mold. Maybe the Soviet Union put some great dancers to work in bakeries.

Anyway, we who find the ability to do something we love, whether or not we are good at it, are really lucky.


Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk


Offline Alex6strings

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1153
  • Good Vibes 64
  • Without the guitar, life would Bb
    • Instagram
Re: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2020, 06:20:33 am »
The thing that always comes to mind when thinking about talent, was an autobiography I read by the Russian ballerina Natalia Makarova. When she was a child in the Soviet Union, some people came to her school and took measurements of all the kids' bodies, looked at their feet, and measured physical things like extensions, turnout, and ability to point their toes. Then they placed kids in ballet school based solely on those measurements, and not whether they were musical or wanted to dance. They physically had to fit. Talent wasn't even considered. They were considered the best dancers, so maybe there's something to that? You might have an easier time becoming proficient if you are built for the thing you are trying to do? Or is that a pile of *¢÷×?

We know of people who don't fit the mold. Maybe the Soviet Union put some great dancers to work in bakeries.

Anyway, we who find the ability to do something we love, whether or not we are good at it, are really lucky.


Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

I think with really extreme physical things like dancing or certain sports ie basketball then your physique is probably responsible for a good percentage of your success possibilities.    That sentence was really awkward but you know what I mean.   I think I've seen too many good musicians with the opposite of what would be called 'ideal' physical attributes for that instrument to believe the same result would happen for music students.  Richard Smith is probably the best example I can think of.    Check this out!  If anyone ever says to me, 'I can't learn the guitar cause my fingers and hands aren't big enough I show them this. 



"Hand me a guitar and I'll play the blues, it's the place i automatically go"  EC

Offline DavidP

  • All Time Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 6112
  • Good Vibes 338
  • You're always learning about guitars-Keef Richards
Re: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2020, 07:53:41 am »
I think with really extreme physical things like dancing or certain sports ie basketball then your physique is probably responsible for a good percentage of your success possibilities.    That sentence was really awkward but you know what I mean.   I think I've seen too many good musicians with the opposite of what would be called 'ideal' physical attributes for that instrument to believe the same result would happen for music students.  Richard Smith is probably the best example I can think of.    Check this out!  If anyone ever says to me, 'I can't learn the guitar cause my fingers and hands aren't big enough I show them this. 

https://youtu.be/RCGGG9piAGY

Very true, Alex.

I'd never heard of Richard Smith, that was delightful.

Though I did notice how effectively he used his pinky on the low E string.

That is something I need to work on. And while immediately I might attribute a lack of success to the length of my pinky, hand-shape, I know that there is much to be said for pinky dexterity and strength. For example, initially I could not fret the F# in D/F# with thumb over the top and may have said my physical thumb was to blame. And now I can. 

So much comes from perseverance and then also finding other ways.

Offline Alex6strings

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1153
  • Good Vibes 64
  • Without the guitar, life would Bb
    • Instagram
Re: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2020, 07:54:16 pm »
Very true, Alex.

I'd never heard of Richard Smith, that was delightful.

Though I did notice how effectively he used his pinky on the low E string.

That is something I need to work on. And while immediately I might attribute a lack of success to the length of my pinky, hand-shape, I know that there is much to be said for pinky dexterity and strength. For example, initially I could not fret the F# in D/F# with thumb over the top and may have said my physical thumb was to blame. And now I can. 

So much comes from perseverance and then also finding other ways.

Richard Smith may not be a household name, but he sure has been in my house for a long time!
.
My pinkie does not like fretting anything on the A or low E strings mate so you're not alone.   It's a position that will never come easily for me.   An A/C# chord I use sometimes is a good example.   If you barre the 2nd fret with your first finger to make your A chord, then fret with your little finger the 5th fret low E, then with your ring finger 4th fret A string.   Rather than playing the open A string as the route you have the the 5th fret E string as your route, and of course you add an additional C# note (4th fret A string)    That chord is used quite a bit in fingerstyle by some and wow, it's ridiculously hard to have every note fretted cleanly for fingerpicking purposes.      :o
"Hand me a guitar and I'll play the blues, it's the place i automatically go"  EC

Offline DavidP

  • All Time Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 6112
  • Good Vibes 338
  • You're always learning about guitars-Keef Richards
Re: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)
« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2020, 05:30:30 am »
Richard Smith may not be a household name, but he sure has been in my house for a long time!
.
My pinkie does not like fretting anything on the A or low E strings mate so you're not alone.   It's a position that will never come easily for me.   An A/C# chord I use sometimes is a good example.   If you barre the 2nd fret with your first finger to make your A chord, then fret with your little finger the 5th fret low E, then with your ring finger 4th fret A string.   Rather than playing the open A string as the route you have the the 5th fret E string as your route, and of course you add an additional C# note (4th fret A string)    That chord is used quite a bit in fingerstyle by some and wow, it's ridiculously hard to have every note fretted cleanly for fingerpicking purposes.      :o

Thanks for that, Alex ... my eyes glaze over when I think about all the finger dexterity and strength to play such chords ... maybe next year or next year or next year ....

Offline useDraW

  • Pub Night Playa
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
  • Good Vibes 3
Re: Talent v Hard work (Obsession)
« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2020, 11:15:52 pm »
i even got called a prodigy even though i'm an intermediate 21 yo so people think what they want to think, i have slept while playing guitar a couple of times (one time i remember i was half-asleep playing an obscure tuning or closing my eyes while practicing picking/fret positioning in a standard tuning) but it's obsession, i started by playing guitar hero games and now i've come full circle by playing a bunch of songs/riffs from the very songs i used to play on that GH plastic guitar usually on medium difficulty, lol.
21 yo noisemaker/musician, been playing guitar for 12'ish years... "when you get to a point where you think "wow, i suck at this.. but i don't care" that's when you really improve." -useDraW-

 

Get The Forum As A Mobile App