Author Topic: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3  (Read 2601 times)

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Offline DavidP

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Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« on: October 03, 2020, 01:03:30 pm »
It's been a while coming but at last here is episode 3.

You will be glad to know that despite being three songs, it is not going to consume many more minutes of your life than watching my rendition of American Pie did  ;D

I shall resist my urge to lead in with a bunch of put-me-down comments.  I don't need to ask forgiveness for all the mistakes, I know that is given unconditionally.  I will also not provide my own critique here and now.   

But for context sake, the video was shot with a cheap webcam, which does not deliver the same quality visual as my phone.  The audio is recorded direct into the Video Capture software via a Scarlett 2i2 interface and TC Helicon Play Acoustic pedal. Getting exactly what I am looking for from the pedal is an ongoing learning process. But it does make the video post production a quick and easy process.




Offline RC23

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2020, 01:30:09 pm »
Thanks for that David, it was great.

I’m nowhere near knowledgeable enough to offer much but I really enjoyed it and this is just inspiring me.

Coincidentally I’ve been working on Wonderful Tonight today, there’s no way I can sing it and do the picked pattern at the same time. Really enjoyed your interpretation, you sang it well. I’m going to have to work on mine a bit more.

Good stuff.

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Offline embishop

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2020, 02:42:59 pm »
Nice and chilled set, David, perfect for a Saturday morning cup of tea. It’s tough to match the vocal phrasing of the originals but I quite enjoy a bit of a different take on it anyway. Eleanor Rigby was great, I’m wondering why we’ve never played that one in my household actually! Love is All Around made me smile, I’ve heard you play that one before too :) . And for #3, I didn’t know what was coming so didn’t recognize it yet at the beginning but I thought wow that is sure some lovely playing, and then of course it was EC. Glad you figured out a way to play and sing, we used to bring that one out every time someone pulled out a guitar but it’s been quite awhile since it’s been in rotation for some reason. Time to play that one again!

Thanks to you and the others I’ve had the pleasure of listening to this morning, headed out to start my day now :)

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Offline CT

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2020, 03:00:05 pm »
That just made my morning, DP right there on my YT feed up on the big screen. No nits, no clams, no errors. Huge praise from me all the way around. I've come to enjoy your banter, and chatty videos are not something I generally like.

I'm really digging the one take Wednesday/Wonder mode of late. Play, record, release and move on to the next project. It's fun sometimes to "dwell in the DAW", but playing straight through really conveys a higher level of musicianship, IMHO. Very inspirational! 

Offline J.W.C.

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2020, 03:26:06 pm »
A lovely set, David; just the thing as I sit here sipping coffee. :)

Completely agree with you on the community: full of positivity, encouragement, and inspiration.

Thanks for sharing!


Offline brianlarsen

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2020, 05:36:18 pm »
Thanks for sharing David  :)

First impressions:
Wow- that's a big step- throwing away your lyrics sheet 'crutch' and performing not one, but three in a one-take session. Vibes for that alone. I know some of us have suggested this to you before, and it does raise the connection you make with the listener.
You took the right path, paying attention to the audio rather than picture quality (which was fine!). i LOVE the full rounded sound you are getting especially at the bottom end.
Smooth patter and playing alike, frogs can be friends if you incorporate them into your show like you do (and can be turn-ons for princesses ;))

I was wondering why this 1-take phenomenon was taking hold, as so many of us have been doing it, presumably since the forum started. I'm sure it's partly down to Alex's willingness to share his insecurities and receive nothing but positivity. I am reminded of Johann's song-a-week marathon, but instead of everyone just cheering him on, this time the spectators are jumping off the fence and keeping him company for part of the course. Participating is always more fun  :)

I wonder if having a live section detracts from the number of views you get?
It's a good idea, but the popularity of the main AVOYP section is impossible to compete with and caters for such a broad range.
I found that was the case with the music critique section, and ended up posting in AVOYP instead.

Only suggestion: In the past, you have often stated that singing was not what you were interested in. It's been a while since you said that and singing/playing has been the centre of your recent output (not to mention the song-writing). It might be a good exercise to carefully listen to the originals and your versions of the first two songs, identifying the differences in melody notes. (I think you may have a tendency to revert to root notes at the end of a line, but am way out of my depth here.) It sounds good and they all work, as long as that is your intention.

Rock on  \m/


Offline Alex6strings

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2020, 10:46:24 pm »
What a great way to start my day thank you my friend.   That was so enjoyable.   I'm really digging Wonderful Tonight!   I might have to throw my hat in the Wonderful Tonight ring soon. 
.
Your confidence speaking and in front of the camera I'm so jealous of!  You are a very talented wordsmith and I wish i had a pinch of your 'stand and deliver' confidence.  Well done mate, I could sit enjoying a cold beer listing to you speak, play, sing all night!    I recognize Neils work with you mascot!


My favorite David quote in this video... 'ok so that's not the ending that I rehearsed but it's an ending never the less'   
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On D/F#  - brother, brother, you've made that chord your b...uddy.   Excellent work!    I think your guitar playing here is smooth dynamic and full of feel.. I really do.   Thanks for sharing this David.   Sunday morning listening at it's best!   
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Offline CT

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2020, 02:33:45 am »
I was wondering why this 1-take phenomenon was taking hold, as so many of us have been doing it, presumably since the forum started. I'm sure it's partly down to Alex's willingness to share his insecurities and receive nothing but positivity. I am reminded of Johann's song-a-week marathon, but instead of everyone just cheering him on, this time the spectators are jumping off the fence and keeping him company for part of the course. Participating is always more fun  :)
BL, always saying what I'm thinking. :)

I was going to say a little something/something, but I held back. Yes, I am capable of self-restraint at times. Many of us have been doing one takes for a while now. I'm fully on board with anything that get us out of a once a month multi-track cover production, with extra compression and reverb  of XYZ band/performer. I'm as guilty as anyone of one-take releases after multiple takes. Until I start live streaming my one-takes, I am just a poser in this regard. Hats off to anyone doing truly one-take performances (a live stream seals the deal).   

Offline DavidP

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2020, 09:20:01 am »
Rod, Mari, Clint, JWC, Brian, Alex

Thanks for watching and commenting. While I am more self-aware in my own performance quality and progress, the affirmation, encouragement, and suggestions from the Community are beyond appreciated. Every comment is invaluable in building up self-confidence and belief, tops up the tank of motivation to keep putting the time in, knowing that I am not deceiving myself. 

I do know from my own playback and observation, those aspects that can be improved, especially where the recording of the live performance is poorer than the rendition the evening before when playing the songs on my patio without that darned camera rolling.

A few further specific replies, where necessary ... I do try and keep it short, cause as you all know, I can talk and type at length ...

Coincidentally I’ve been working on Wonderful Tonight today, there’s no way I can sing it and do the picked pattern at the same time. Really enjoyed your interpretation, you sang it well. I’m going to have to work on mine a bit more.

Same here, Rod, same here ... one day I would like to come back and play the whole song finger-style, but lots more practice hours lie ahead to achieve that.  You are making good progress on the song, having looked at your video in the Guitar Challenges - Songs area (anybody reading this who missed Rod's, go find it and check it out)

Love is All Around made me smile, I’ve heard you play that one before too :)

Yup, this is the third time.  First time to practice the hitting of the bass note when strumming and second time to apply the basic finger-picking pattern taught in the classic BC. This time I wanted to use the simple alternating bass note pattern taught in the first lessons of the Folk Finger-style Module. I also wanted to add in a little walk down lick/riff to transition back into a verse/outro after the chorus.  Under recording pressure those notes were not played with as much confidence and clarity as when practising, didn't come out as well as I'd like.

Wow- that's a big step- throwing away your lyrics sheet 'crutch' and performing not one, but three in a one-take session. Vibes for that alone. I know some of us have suggested this to you before, and it does raise the connection you make with the listener.

i LOVE the full rounded sound you are getting especially at the bottom end.

I wonder if having a live section detracts from the number of views you get?
It's a good idea, but the popularity of the main AVOYP section is impossible to compete with and caters for such a broad range.
I found that was the case with the music critique section, and ended up posting in AVOYP instead.

It might be a good exercise to carefully listen to the originals and your versions of the first two songs, identifying the differences in melody notes. (I think you may have a tendency to revert to root notes at the end of a line, but am way out of my depth here.) It sounds good and they all work, as long as that is your intention.


I have performed songs, even at an actual Open Mic, without the crutch ... which I think of more as a safety net.  Though I have figured what is the difference that makes a difference that sometimes the words stick and I learn them and other times not so much.  The way I can still quote Moty Python sketches near verbatim years after listening to them tells me I can remember words, so something to keep at.

The other thing I think that made a difference, was trying to connect with songs and express some of the song's emotions in the playing and performing. Probably tru that knowing the song from memory and being more on auto pilot will help that.  But I was consciously trying to perform with feeling, especially the second two.

If the comment on the sound relates to the guitar then that is great news and a confirmation that the pedal is doing its job to improve the recorded sound quality when using the built-in electronics.

You are probably right about the sharing of this series in the Live area rather than AVOYP.  There is a part of me wishing I'd not decided to post in that area. Because without becoming pathologically narcissistic, having posted, I do look forward to the comments.

As for my singing, a good suggestion.  And probably what I could/should do is invest some time in Justin's ear-training course and take the first baby steps into transcribing.  Because to be open, my intention in the singing is not to mess up and at least sing in reasonable pitch.  I am not trying consciously to sing in particular melody.  It comes out the way it comes out based on the playing and I suppose memory of I have of listening to the songs.

What a great way to start my day thank you my friend.   That was so enjoyable.   I'm really digging Wonderful Tonight!   I might have to throw my hat in the Wonderful Tonight ring soon. 
.
Your confidence speaking and in front of the camera I'm so jealous of!  You are a very talented wordsmith and I wish i had a pinch of your 'stand and deliver' confidence.  Well done mate, I could sit enjoying a cold beer listing to you speak, play, sing all night!    I recognize Neils work with you mascot!

On D/F#  - brother, brother, you've made that chord your b...uddy.   Excellent work!    I think your guitar playing here is smooth dynamic and full of feel.. I really do.

Alex, I look forward to hearing you play Wonderful Tonight, your way, if it is a song you love.

On the speaking, I guess what you tell me about guitar playing is what I can tell you about the speaking and word-smithing ... 14 years as an active Toastmaster invested in developing the skills and delivering many, many prepared speeches, impromptu speeches, and speeches to give other people feedback.  I also was an avid reader for many many years.

My brother will appreciate your comment when I share it this afternoon

I am stoked to have been able to play through a song with D/F# ... another step and will keep working at it ... need to find another song that I love that makes use of it.


Offline DavidP

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2020, 09:29:52 am »
Thought I'd respond separately on this point ...

I was wondering why this 1-take phenomenon was taking hold, as so many of us have been doing it, presumably since the forum started. I'm sure it's partly down to Alex's willingness to share his insecurities and receive nothing but positivity. I am reminded of Johann's song-a-week marathon, but instead of everyone just cheering him on, this time the spectators are jumping off the fence and keeping him company for part of the course. Participating is always more fun  :)

And

BL, always saying what I'm thinking. :)

I was going to say a little something/something, but I held back. Yes, I am capable of self-restraint at times. Many of us have been doing one takes for a while now. I'm fully on board with anything that get us out of a once a month multi-track cover production, with extra compression and reverb  of XYZ band/performer. I'm as guilty as anyone of one-take releases after multiple takes. Until I start live streaming my one-takes, I am just a poser in this regard. Hats off to anyone doing truly one-take performances (a live stream seals the deal).   

I think you both make excellent points.

If I was to allow my word-choice obsession to come out, I reckon an even more accurate title would be "First Take Friday" (yeah, I changed the day of the week to get that alliteration, but don't think the day of the week is important).

And without any doubt, committing to share the first take come what may adds some pressure/stress.  And learning to master that stress and not fall apart is invaluable, irrespective as to whether you ever want to perform live, be it on a stage or a live stream.

But I wouldn't use words like "guilty" and "poser" if what is being shared is the best take of a number of one-takes.  While the stress is less because you can always start again and pick the best, there is still lots to be said for being able to play through a song or an improvisation, from start to finish.

I also think there is a lot of merit in improving your play through trying to produce an authentic, full band, cover song. Lots to learn through doing that, especially if your aspiration is to play in a live cover band or produce full band original songs.

Offline close2u

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2020, 09:42:45 am »
Wow. It's getting hot and crowded in here!
I'll just pop in and say to David .. .well done good sir. A hat-trick of goodies. :)

Offline sairfingers

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2020, 12:38:39 pm »
Hi David, just caught up with your post this morning as it’s in a different section from usual. Three songs in a row! I take my hat off to you as 5 minutes is difficult enough never mind 12 or so with 3 different chord, lyric, rhythm and timing combinations. Even more difficult than one long song like American Pie where you can get in a groove, repeat the chords and only need to concentrate on the lyrics. I know you’ve done it before for your open mic nights but still quite a challenge.

Some lovely guitar playing there, your audio system sounds great and the visual seemed perfectly good to me although of course less important. You looked confident and relaxed throughout.

I enjoyed the package you put together, the banter, the playing and singing. Regarding phrasing and melody to match the original, it depends if a near as you can copy or your own version is what you are trying to achieve. Both are valid approaches to my mind although a copy is clearly more difficult. A bit of originality is much better which is what you achieved so to my mind well done. 

I agree about the 1 take thing. Everything that is not tinkered with in a DAW is 1 take. It could however be 1 take out of a dozen takes. ‘First and only take’ would be a better title for the Wednesday thing and is really what the spirit of that is and that’s certainly my interpretation of the 1 take Wednesday posts. Alex, who started it, wanted to simulate a busking session. I guess honesty comes into it.

Regarding the frog in your throat, what was in your cup? I can recommend several Scottish libations that whilst perhaps not getting rid of the frog can certainly make you forget about it.
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Offline LievenDV

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2020, 12:51:22 pm »
it kept getting better and better!

You might want to work on the itming in the beginning of the verses of Elenor rigby but a lot of respect of taking on that song; it certainly ain't the easiest!
I liked the consistent fingerpicking on the wet wet wet song a lot; good flow there.
The Clapton one was my favourite :)
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Offline DavidP

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2020, 01:54:36 pm »
Wow. It's getting hot and crowded in here!
I'll just pop in and say to David .. .well done good sir. A hat-trick of goodies. :)

Thanks for popping in, Richard, appreciate you taking the time to catch the set and the supportive comment.

Hi David, just caught up with your post this morning as it’s in a different section from usual. Three songs in a row! I take my hat off to you as 5 minutes is difficult enough never mind 12 or so with 3 different chord, lyric, rhythm and timing combinations. Even more difficult than one long song like American Pie where you can get in a groove, repeat the chords and only need to concentrate on the lyrics. I know you’ve done it before for your open mic nights but still quite a challenge.

Some lovely guitar playing there, your audio system sounds great and the visual seemed perfectly good to me although of course less important. You looked confident and relaxed throughout.

I enjoyed the package you put together, the banter, the playing and singing. Regarding phrasing and melody to match the original, it depends if a near as you can copy or your own version is what you are trying to achieve. Both are valid approaches to my mind although a copy is clearly more difficult. A bit of originality is much better which is what you achieved so to my mind well done. 

I agree about the 1 take thing. Everything that is not tinkered with in a DAW is 1 take. It could however be 1 take out of a dozen takes. ‘First and only take’ would be a better title for the Wednesday thing and is really what the spirit of that is and that’s certainly my interpretation of the 1 take Wednesday posts. Alex, who started it, wanted to simulate a busking session. I guess honesty comes into it.

Regarding the frog in your throat, what was in your cup? I can recommend several Scottish libations that whilst perhaps not getting rid of the frog can certainly make you forget about it.

Thanks Gordon, glad you found it tucked away here.  This seems the appropriate place for it, but aware that it might easily be missed.  Appreciate all the positive comments.

LOL all I am trying to achieve is a rendition with as few errors as possible and a vocal in reasonable pitch, that sounds OK.

I was contemplating having a beer on the table but figured that while it would add to the cool factor, it was unlikely to help either my playing or voice.  So it was just plain room temperature water.  But when the music is played and done, I am partial to Scottish libations ... currently sipping either the entry level Glenmorangie single malt or a Monkey Shoulder blended malt.  While I haven't managed to influence my son into learning guitar (he's dabbled a little and shows basic promise), his favourite band is AC/DC and he enjoys joining me to partake in a wee dram ... and two out of three ain't bad (as the song goes)

it kept getting better and better!

You might want to work on the itming in the beginning of the verses of Elenor rigby but a lot of respect of taking on that song; it certainly ain't the easiest!
I liked the consistent fingerpicking on the wet wet wet song a lot; good flow there.
The Clapton one was my favourite :)

Thanks for checking in, Lieven, appreciate it and the encouraging comments.

I tried to play ER along with the original and found it really difficult.  I wouldn't be at all surprised to find I may have lost a strum or two along the way  :o I should actually study the video and check that.

WT was my favourite as well ... such a beautiful song and just delighted to be able to give it a go  :D

Hope you are keeping well and making progress with your musical endeavours.

Offline J.W.C.

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2020, 04:53:51 pm »
I agree about the 1 take thing. Everything that is not tinkered with in a DAW is 1 take. It could however be 1 take out of a dozen takes. ‘First and only take’ would be a better title for the Wednesday thing and is really what the spirit of that is and that’s certainly my interpretation of the 1 take Wednesday posts.

That's how I view the "1 take Weds." thing, too. It seems to me the goal is to make it kind of like a live performance: you get that "first take," with whatever comes with it. In my opinion, mixing such a take in a DAW doesn't change the "first take" nature of it. Nor would applying effects (e.g., compression, reverb) any more than using a compressor or reverb pedal on the input chain would. What *would* violate the spirit of the first-take concept (again, in my opinion) is editing or changing things like timing or pitch of recorded audio inside a DAW.

(For the record, all of my recordings are mixed in the DAW, but none of my recordings -- even the ones that aren't a "first and only 'live' take" -- use any editing of the recorded audio to change timing or pitch or things like that.)

Offline Alex6strings

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2020, 12:08:46 am »
Just on the 1 Take thing.  I really don't mind and personally think it can mean whatever it wants to whoever is uploading the video.   I didn't start it to become anything other than a way for me personally to attempt to recreate an open mic or something.  Hence the chit chat at the start.  I guess I figured I'd do a couple and then I'd see a butterfly and get distracted or something.... :o    But I've been enjoying it.    I'm stoked it's something that others can see the benefit in and want to be involved in, but there's no rules, it's not a competition.   
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On live streaming

...... Hats off to anyone doing truly one-take performances (a live stream seals the deal).   

Here's my thing.   I would absolutely love to livestream my 1 take Wednesdays and think it would be a great next step.  Audio quality!!! If someone can point me to a tutorial on how to use a zoom h5 a windows laptop, a guitar and an android smart phone to get a good sound for a live stream, I'll do it every week!    Also viewers?    Living in different time zones is not ideal and if most people just watched the recorded live stream well..is it worth it?   I don't know.   I get what you mean and that a true one take is a live stream, but in my case at least, I'm not a serious musician and I don't have a lot of gear and I don't have a fan base so I would expect 'zero' watchers.. maybe 1 or 2 if i'm lucky.   I have nothing to prove but if anyone wants me to prove something I will..lol!  I'm kidding but yeah I'd love to do a live stream.   From the live streams i watch of Tommy Emmanuel and all the big guys though, the audio quality is rubbish.   
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Also 1take has never meant to me, no adding reverb and eq in the daw.   That has nothing to do with it from my perspective.  I always add verb and eq and compression to my videos whether 1take or not.   The Rose I played last night took 3 takes in my lounge room and 2 in the sun room hence it was definitely not a 1take.  Nor was it ever meant to be  8)
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edit and as J.W.C.  also said.   All of my videos or audio whether 1take or not are filmed and recorded in a 'single' take and apart from reverb eq, compression what i play in that moment is what you get.  Just in case there was any confusion.   I'm proud of my playing i don't want to change anything just enhance. 
« Last Edit: October 05, 2020, 12:24:10 am by Alex6strings »
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Offline DavidP

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2020, 06:06:00 am »
I'm of a similar mindset. A one-take recording implies a start to finish play through.  Once recorded I used to do some post processing of all my one-take AVOYP covers. What I never did was any editing, no nudging a vocal phrase into better time, no cutting and splicing from many takes. 

Now I am doing the processing up front using the pedal, no post processing.  Though if I were to get really serious YT Stats for Nerds tells me I am about 8dB softer than their normalised volume level, so could amplify the audio before rendering the final video.

Different story when producing a "studio" full-band original song.  Then I have come to be comfortable that anything goes ... there is no such thing as cheating (though I do still struggle with sampling other people's songs to produce the music for an artist's own song) ... cut and splice, tighten up the time, hand adjust volume levels of a recorded track.  All that matters is the final song, how it sounds.

And first-take is just a more intense version of one-take for me. Almost the same as live stream, unless one is also interacting with a live chat while streaming, though of course, if that first-take goes horribly off the rails and becomes a train-wreck, then one can still opt not to post, and rather learn from the experience, how setting it up with a first-take intention changes the performance dynamics.  And as I think I've said before, this is all mind-games, which may be the toughest challenge to overcome in learning to play.

Alex, does your laptop have an integrated camera?  Can the Zoom be used as a USB mic? If the answer to both those is yes then should be just a matter of enabling and disabling devices.  If the laptop doesn't have the camera then you could always use an external webcam, which is what I use to record the videos now. 

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2020, 12:07:59 pm »
Hey guys, sorry to have started something here. I was only expressing my opinion on what I thought a ‘1 take’ is. I didn’t mean to get everyone started in a big discussion. What do I know compared to you all? This was Alex’s idea to start with so his opinion in the one that counts. 😃

Alex has a point about live streaming. With the different time zones involved in the forum it would be pretty pointless if people had to record it to watch later. From the players perspective I suspect it could be pretty exciting if you thought you had an audience out there.
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Offline DavidP

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2020, 12:18:04 pm »
No need to apologise, Gordon.  You never know when something crops up in the conversation that becomes helpful to somebody. And your opinions are as valid as everybody else's. 

Even when it comes mixing/production ... remember the first rule ... if it sounds good it is good.  And that for me means any opinion on how something sounds is fine, even if one doesn't have a lot of experience in producing, playing etc. We all love the music and have listened to plenty that I am sure shapes those opinions.

As long as people are positively intended and respectful, that's what matters to me.

Offline J.W.C.

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2020, 12:41:02 pm »
...I do still struggle with sampling other people's songs to produce the music for an artist's own song...

That's something I've never cared for, either. On the other hand, I'm fine with using things like digital amp models, impulse response models, and digital (i.e. sampled) instruments. After all, I play on a digital piano, and I use digital drums and bass in some of the recordings I've made.

Offline DavidP

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2020, 01:51:25 pm »
That's something I've never cared for, either. On the other hand, I'm fine with using things like digital amp models, impulse response models, and digital (i.e. sampled) instruments. After all, I play on a digital piano, and I use digital drums and bass in some of the recordings I've made.

Totally agree, JWC.  I too use digital instruments. Most often drums, bass, and piano but also like the option to work in strings or brass into the arrangements of my originals.

And I have more than enough challenge to learn how to play guitar so composing the parts for say bass using musical score rather than trying to play the part on a midi controller really enables musical creativity (once you know a little theory ... I only know a little theory). Drums I just used pre-defined grooves.

Neither of which may be quite like being able to play and record the real thing but it's given me opportunities to explore things musically that would otherwise be beyond me.

Offline Alex6strings

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2020, 07:37:15 pm »
That's something I've never cared for, either. On the other hand, I'm fine with using things like digital amp models, impulse response models, and digital (i.e. sampled) instruments. After all, I play on a digital piano, and I use digital drums and bass in some of the recordings I've made.

I remember watching a doco or something on The Police and royalties and sampling.    Andy Summers wrote the riff to 'Every Breath you take' which is everything to that song imo.   However Sting wrote the song and therefore the royalties are his.   Here's the real punch in the guts for Andy.   Everyone and anyone can, have can and do sample that riff and use it in their Number 1 chart toping hit, without paying him a thing.  They sample that part of the song because that is the song!   
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I saw this a long time ago and maybe things have changed but I remember it clearly being about that particular riff. 
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Offline Alex6strings

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2020, 07:41:56 pm »
Hey guys, sorry to have started something here. I was only expressing my opinion on what I thought a ‘1 take’ is. I didn’t mean to get everyone started in a big discussion. What do I know compared to you all? This was Alex’s idea to start with so his opinion in the one that counts. 😃

Alex has a point about live streaming. With the different time zones involved in the forum it would be pretty pointless if people had to record it to watch later. From the players perspective I suspect it could be pretty exciting if you thought you had an audience out there.

No not my opinion only that matters Gordon, the discussion is good, and like David said, no need to apologise, (I know it's Davids thread but like he said, it's usually pretty quite over here in the live section, this is spicing it up). 
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I've released 1TW to the people.  It's not mine.  I'm just saying what it means to me.   Like I said, anyone and everyone is welcome and can upload what they want.  I'm really interested in the live stream thing though and am serious if anyone knows how?  I've done some research but, I think i need an IPad at the least.   
"Hand me a guitar and I'll play the blues, it's the place i automatically go"  EC

Offline DavidP

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2020, 07:04:44 am »
I remember watching a doco or something on The Police and royalties and sampling.    Andy Summers wrote the riff to 'Every Breath you take' which is everything to that song imo.   However Sting wrote the song and therefore the royalties are his.   Here's the real punch in the guts for Andy.   Everyone and anyone can, have can and do sample that riff and use it in their Number 1 chart toping hit, without paying him a thing.  They sample that part of the song because that is the song!   
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I saw this a long time ago and maybe things have changed but I remember it clearly being about that particular riff.

I will quite likely say something totally wrong now, not being at all well informed, regardless ... I understand that how royalties/credits are shared is a matter of choice, rather than hard and fast rule.

From the Queen film and other reading, I understand that at a point they opted to share royalties equally, irrespective of who contributed what to a song.

I also recall reading about Ronnie Wood and some of his ups and downs with song writing credits, royalties in his early years after joining the Stones.

I think if you are a band then sharing seems right. But I guess it will be shades of grey, not black/white.

And hard for me not to have some ill feelings for Sting at that moment if indeed the story is true.  Though maybe that was what they all agreed .... who knows.

No not my opinion only that matters Gordon, the discussion is good, and like David said, no need to apologise, (I know it's Davids thread but like he said, it's usually pretty quite over here in the live section, this is spicing it up). 

LOL thanks Alex ... I confess to some wishfulness that more of the current regular posters and commenters in AVOYP would have commented on this thread, but no need to find ways to spice it up  ;D I think this talk about our approaches to recording, using the DAW etc is a good one in its own right, and happy if it happens to happen here.

Offline RC23

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Re: Songs from the Playroom (not the Wood) - episode 3
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2020, 08:25:42 am »
I've released 1TW to the people.  It's not mine.  I'm just saying what it means to me.   Like I said, anyone and everyone is welcome and can upload what they want.  I'm really interested in the live stream thing though and am serious if anyone knows how?  I've done some research but, I think i need an IPad at the least.

I don’t live stream. But I’m doing all my recording etc. on the iPad because that’s what I have and it’s convenient. It’s quite capable but I’m sure a decent laptop would give greater processing power and more options.
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