Author Topic: B2-0902 F chord cheats  (Read 2254 times)

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Offline close2u

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B2-0902 F chord cheats
« on: January 01, 2020, 08:25:25 pm »
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 08:40:57 am by close2u »

Offline Skuilla

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2020, 12:50:13 pm »
Hi guys,
I need some tips on mini F chord, I do not understand how my hand must be positioning behind the neck.
Generally there is some space between hand and the neck, but in order to put pressure with the first finger on the two thinner strings I need to press the hand against the neck of the guitar.
This position seems very weird to me, strangely for me is simpler the complete barrè rather than the mini one.
I started learn this chord just now, but I prefer to know if this is ok before put a lot of hours in wrong positioning.

Offline Ex-Calif

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2020, 12:56:10 pm »
Wow - I was just gonna post this same question.

First for the mini F chord I am finding it goes wrong if I let my palm rest on the back of the neck. I can't get the right finger curl otherwise - this requires lots of finger strength so I have been doing Justin's "Finger gym" for at least 5 minutes a day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDt_4ha9Xjs&list=TLPQMjQxMjIwMjA0vxIdFHHdGg&index=6

I find the mini F starts going bad again when my hand gets lazy and my palm touches the neck.

My parallel question to the group is that is it OK to use the full Bar-F when the mini is called out?  I find it way easier to do the bar F.

Also C, F & G are the first chords with a lot of finger stretch (for beginners) A, E and D so far the fingers are quite close on the fret board. That's probably why they are the first chords - easier.

I am also working on finger stretches every practice - I forget what lesson Justin introduces that but I do them every practice as a warm up.
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Offline Gordon Overkill

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2020, 01:37:04 pm »
For me the positioning works fine if I do it simmilar to the C-chord. This means the hand is not parallel to the frat board, but rather comes from an angle, while at the same time there is almost no angle between the lower arm and the hand. Not sure if that's perfect, but for me it works pretty well.

That's how it looks from above:
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 11:18:08 am by close2u »

Offline adi_mrok

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2020, 12:56:23 pm »
Hi Skuilla and Excalif, I think it is correct to put some pressure behind the neck with your palm for mini, that's sort of Jimi Hendrix way of playing where you hold your neck like a baseball bat to apply more pressure and use thumb over in the future once you become a more advanced player. If you prefer to play a full barre for now that's fine too, you might revisit it in the future depending if songs you want to learn use a mini in order to get some chord changes quicker. For now I shall say full barre is even better as you get more notes sounding out from your chord than from mini :)



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Offline slowguy6288

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2021, 04:15:10 am »
@Gordon Overkill

This is roughly how I'm having to fret this as well.  My fingers just won't bend correctly for the second and third fingers to fret cleanly while the index finger lays flat on B and E strings.  I have a much tougher time with the mini-F than with the Fmaj barre chord.  So I kind of fret the Fmaj7 chord, and then lean the hand over to get the B and E string with the side of the first knuckle of my index finger.  I'll keep working on it, but at 45, there just may be shapes my fingers won't make.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2021, 11:18:40 am by close2u »

Offline Ex-Calif

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2021, 11:06:03 am »
I was mucking about with the song list and came across this - https://www.justinguitar.com/songs/ritchie-valens-la-bamba-chords-tabs-guitar-lesson-rf-004

Justin is clearly wrapping his thumb on the F and C and I have noticed that in a ton of experienced guitar players.  Hand position often changes depending on what chord is before and what chord is after. C to (mini) F should be easy because you can keep the index finger as an anchor.  I have resolved to what Justin is doing - the index finger just "rocks" flat to bar the first 2 strings - the the trick is to get 2 and 3 to hit cleanly.

I am the kind of guy who goes at stuff head on.  The C-F change is in the Christmas challenge (Jingle Bells) and I love La Bamba so I may put that next in my songlist.

What's killing me now is the G to D7 in Jingle Bells - it's about the last bit I need to finish but it's getting there.
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Offline close2u

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2021, 11:20:18 am »
As you work through the New Beginners Course you will find that
a] Justin recommends thumb behind at first as this will build up essential muscle strength in places where your hand is not used to having to work
b] Justin suggests that you can begin to move your thumb up and over to grip differently depending on the need of the chord

Offline Ex-Calif

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2021, 11:40:26 am »
As you work through the New Beginners Course you will find that
a] Justin recommends thumb behind at first as this will build up essential muscle strength in places where your hand is not used to having to work
b] Justin suggests that you can begin to move your thumb up and over to grip differently depending on the need of the chord

Yeah - I forgot to mention that I am not wrapping the thumb - I am doing the "classic" thumb behind.

I am also doing "Finger Gym" for at least 3-5 minutes at every practice - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDt_4ha9Xjs&list=TLPQMjQxMjIwMjA0vxIdFHHdGg&index=6

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Offline Skuilla

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2021, 04:03:30 pm »
Hi,
I'm trying to get used of this new position of my hand, in this days I think I post a photo.
I've a question but in this lesson, i.e. lesson 9, the idea is to be able to change between chords and F cheats or also between the full barrè F chord?
Because all the song use this cheats and seems that for Justin it's enough that you succeed to execute a full barrè F chord but not smooth changes with it.
Changes from chord with no barrè to one with barrè position seems impossible. :-[

Offline DarrellW

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2021, 04:12:25 pm »
Hi Skuilla it’s all to do with practice, it may seem impossible now but it will happen and when it does you will wonder what all of the fuss was about! Just keep trying and concentrate on the ones you finding the hardest; don’t overdo it, 5-10 mins is enough then do something that you’re enjoying and having fun with!

Offline Skuilla

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2021, 08:59:32 pm »
Hi,
I post my mini-F chord photo.
https://ibb.co/tPY2wfM
I have a question, I'm learning House of the rising sun the version with alternate picking style.
The song is long, it is normal that a certain point I have pain in the big  muscle under the inch of the left hand?
If the question is not clear I can post a photo of the area in which I fell pain.

Offline DarrellW

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2021, 09:22:15 pm »
The problem is that your thumb isn’t in the right place, I’m not surprised that you’re having problems!
Watch this:



Offline Skuilla

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2021, 08:15:56 am »
I watched the video, but is about tips for full bar F chord.
It seems to me that the thumb is behind neck with full-bar F, instead with mini-F is not completly behind, watchin justin and other.
But maybe mine is too far from  the neck?
I dunno, this is why i posted the question time ago.

Offline close2u

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2021, 09:24:21 am »
@Skuilla

your thumb is angled wrong, it is pointing away from you and towards the headstock. You need to rotate your wrist so that the thumb is more perpendicular to the neck and behind your fingers.

Also, try having the guitar seated on your leg so the whole neck points slightly upwards, not horizontal.

Justin teaches 'thumb behind' for beginners so they develop the essential muscles to hold chords. Later in the beginner course he encourages trying thumb up and over - by which time those muscles should have developed.

Offline Ex-Calif

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2021, 12:07:10 pm »
I find when my chords are going wrong sometimes it's body posture and guitar angle so I check that first.

Here is a photo of Justin doing it.  The thumb angle doesn't appear as important but he did say a couple of things.



1/ Note the first finger is at a bit of an angle - the whole hand is. This helps him reach the ring finger third fret.
2/ His palm is close to the neck but not touching it.
3/ The fingers are curved or you will mute the strings or if you fingers are fat-ish you won't be able to press the string in the middle and avoid the other strings - especially with the 3rd finger
4/ Note that the 3rd finger is purposefully planted a little high and is muting the 5gh string. The middle finger is also high and touching the 4th string but doesn't matter because the 4th string is freted at the 3rd fret. But this helps avoid the middle finger from muting the second string.

- I do finger stretch for at least 3 minutes at the start of every practice. I make sure I am in a very classical guitar hand position with the thumb centered about the second fret, straight across the neck and the wrist "dropped" or curved so that all four fingers can fret all first four frets in turn one after another.  If my forarm isn't feeling the stretch I am not doing it right.

The "pinch" between the thumb and the fretting fingers builds strength and honestly for the first couple of weeks there was some pain.

Note how close his ring finger is to the fret then look at your photo. You are about the middle. The C chord is a good one to practice as well because it is the first introduced chord where the fingers spread out rather than bunch together like the A and the D.

Again for me you biggest problem is your palm is against the neck and unless you have big hands this will struggle. Don't feel bad it's natural to want to use the palm because that's how we've always gripped thigs and shook hands.

The other exercise I do daily is called "Finger Gym" - Its basically the same as finger stretch but using hammer ons - Justin has a video of it and if you can't find it let me know.  Your hand will get stronger just by playing but doing stretch and strength to me is a good shortcut to getting there. Especially strengthening the pinky which come into chords pretty soon as well.

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Offline Skuilla

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2021, 06:03:49 pm »
Ok, no palm against the neck, now I will post 4 photos of mini F-chord.
Can you said me the best shape?

Thumb behind, perpendicular to neck
https://ibb.co/M8mFP8p

Thumb behind, parallel to neck
https://ibb.co/WHN3H3R

No palm against the neck, but thumb press the neck in different way, thumb parallel
https://ibb.co/1my475r

No palm against the neck, but thumb press the neck in different way, thumb perpendicular
https://ibb.co/XVnHjdf

This unit is stealing me too much time  :o ;D ;D

Offline DarrellW

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2021, 06:07:23 pm »
I would say that the second one looks best, which do you find best?

Offline R.F.W.

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2021, 06:13:11 pm »



Thumb behind, parallel to neck
https://ibb.co/WHN3H3R

If it helps, the second one I find easier to get f mini barre.

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Offline Ex-Calif

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2021, 11:35:24 pm »

This unit is stealing me too much time  :o ;D ;D

Don't feel bad.  F is hard. 

It looks like you are really squeezing hard on F3 and F2. It's gonna be about what feels better and works better for you.

How are the individual strings sounding?

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Offline close2u

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2021, 08:20:33 am »
Pics 3 and 4 look very, very wrong.
Pics 1 & 2 are better.

A couple of things I notice.
Your 3rd finger has a perfect bend at its 1st joint so that your tip approaches the string from almost above  - ensuring it will not mute the G string next to it. Your 2nd finger almost has this but seems to be a little less flexible from the 1st joint.

Your guitar neck looks to be very, very chunky, thick, a proverbial 'baseball bat'. Is it as huge as it looks? If so, that won't be helping.
Also - your action looks quite high and that will make the f more difficult too.

My advice to overcome the physical problems would be to tune your guitar strings down half a tone (called Eb tuning) then put a capo on fret 1 so you are playing back in standard tuning. But your fingers are not having to cope with the difficulties of fretting at fretting 1 for that barre chord.

What position is your body?
What position is your guitar?
What angle is your guitar neck running at?
It looks like your left wrist is approaching from a long way below the guitar neck but the neck does not appear to be raised up high.

Offline Skuilla

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2021, 08:39:15 pm »
Thanks for the answers.
Quote
Pics 3 and 4 look very, very wrong.
Pics 1 & 2 are better.
Are you saying the pics in the order in which I posted them or the name of the file stored?

However, I started to practice the shape with the finger behind and parallel to the neck, that is
https://ibb.co/XY7Yz7h

My guitar is a yamaha F310, I don't know if my neck is too thick, I think you can find size searching for the model.
I post a photo of my position and doing a mini-F chord.
https://ibb.co/XY7Yz7h

I dunno if my action is too high, I ask for it in this topic: https://justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=48117.msg434308#msg434308

Offline Skuilla

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2021, 08:46:11 am »
At the end of the story my answers are ok, or I need to change something?

Offline close2u

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2021, 09:43:21 am »
Thanks for the answers.Are you saying the pics in the order in which I posted them or the name of the file stored?

The order in which you posted them in the post above.

Offline Skuilla

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Re: B2-0902 F chord cheats
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2021, 06:18:31 pm »
Ok, but the action values and the position are ok?

 

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