Author Topic: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track  (Read 7224 times)

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Offline Balamuthiah

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2020, 04:33:46 pm »
Minimalism is an interesting approach. Highly touted and promoted by many on this forum, like no where else that I've seen to be honest. With some players it does seem like they are paid $5 per note! There is a lot to be said for economy of well placed notes. If the riff is right it really doesn't matter, it is neither good nor bad based on number. A random set of notes is a random set regardless of the count. Be that as it may, you broke ground and got this challenge off to a great start! 

I still struggle to make seamless solos. A lot times that I did try to be extravagant, I was told by many that I sound better with the minimalistic approach with a lot of spaces. So in a way that’s my comfort zone. But someday I will be extravagant and sound good! 😊

Sounding good, Bala. Well done on getting the ball rolling ...

I enjoyed that flurry towards the end of 2018/early 2019 when we posted up a succession of backing tracks and there was a fair amount of activity with folk having a crack.  And then it came to a natural end.

Thank you David. And good recollection of the flurry at the end of 2018. I kind of miss that. I found improvement in everybody’s sound with each challenge back then.

CT, I enjoyed myself so much I had a second go  ;D ;D ;D - sorry about the guitar buzz  :(

https://soundcloud.com/steve-cardus/underground-vibe2/s-FznUH

Nice one Birdland! I definitely loved the second take (first take was great in itself). Like I’d always say you have a certain Birdland sound that I’d recognize instantly if I listened to your tracks.
@ bIrdland - I enjoyed it so much I listened twice :)

@ Bala
Nicely done on a limited budget!
 :)


Wow - I would have to scrape off a few years worth of rust first I think.
I have got quite a lot of improv vids posted here and on my youtube but they all date back some years now. I've just looked actually - my last improv posted here was over 8 years back. Oh my holy wow.
Having said that, I think they would be much better than anything I could produce this week or any time soon - without some serious practice hours and going back to the drawing board.
My, how time slips and how our skill set dwindles without usage.

Thank you close! Would really love to check out your improvs sometime! But as for now just do it and join the party for the fun of it 😊

Offline CT

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2020, 02:16:13 am »
@Bala, not a thing in the world wrong with what you're doing. I cannot advise on who to listen to and who to ignore. Play what ever you want to play. Have fun and let 'er rip. :)

Offline close2u

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2020, 07:11:51 am »
...
Thank you close! Would really love to check out your improvs sometime!

well ... you asked https://justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=25543.0
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 07:30:21 am by close2u »

Offline DavidP

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2020, 03:54:18 pm »
well ... you asked https://justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=25543.0

Sounded great, Richard.  I do love watching people improvise.  Thanks for sharing.

Nudge nudge ... hope you record yours Clint, as you've done in the past.

Offline CT

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2020, 12:01:56 am »
Nudge nudge ... hope you record yours Clint, as you've done in the past.
"Oh....I've got a three day weekend, I've got a three day weekend!"

Offline DavidP

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2020, 01:48:46 pm »
"Oh....I've got a three day weekend, I've got a three day weekend!"

Love those three day weekends  ;)

Well never ask somebody to do what you are not prepared to do yourself, they say.  So here's my attempt at some Smooth Underground Chill.  Bala and Steve sounded so good and make it seem so simple.  I'm with Gareth on this one ... a real struggle to get anything to sound ok enough to post.  This is clearly a consequence of having stopped these Challenges ages ago and now back to square one ... not surprising since I probably never advanced far from square one back then.  Anyhow, I'm going with having a go is better than not having a go irrespective of how it turned out.

To make the recording of VBB I again stuck the mic in front of the amp.  This time I remember to turn on the value emulation and built-in fx to try for a better tone.  Added a little compression and saturation in the DAW.

Over to you Clint ...




Offline CT

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2020, 06:38:05 pm »
Here's my take:



Record levels are a bit low. It was recorded live through a mic'd amp.

Offline CT

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2020, 07:13:21 pm »
Good stuff there @DP! You can't rock unless you give it a try. I've said it before, that is a stunning guitar. You need to air that thing out more often. Strum-a-dum-dum & xx--xx in a jar has to be getting old (even though you are doing great at it). We've got to do more of these, cuz I want to hear more from you and that blue beast!

Offline Balamuthiah

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2020, 10:46:28 pm »
Good job David! I liked the tone. Your playing is very clean and I liked that you had repeating motifs and space. What I would recommend next is to learn some licks. I see that you have learnt the second position on the pentatonic scale. Justin has some cool licks to lend in his lessons and the second position is an amazing place for vibrato and bends. So try and set those as your next goals. I hope I’m not giving the wrong advice but that seemed to work for me 😅
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 08:58:28 am by close2u »

Offline Balamuthiah

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2020, 10:54:00 pm »
That was awesome as always CT. I especially liked the part around 1:37. That’s the sort of sound I was searching for but failed. I believe that’s where the minor major blend kicks in eh? Also I’ve been mic’ing my amp too for a while now. Not going for processed tones anymore since I started playing live. I had just gotten my tremolo pedal when I joined the challenge so couldn’t resist it. I’ll also go for the video approach from the next challenge!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 08:58:41 am by close2u »

Offline CT

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2020, 12:01:17 am »
@Bala, thanks for giving a listen and for the kind words. These guitar parts have been haunting me the last few days (even in my sleep). It's always a challenge taking what I hear in my head and then transferring it to my fingers and ears. I can now move on to my next thing (an up tempo track in the magical key of G).

Offline DavidP

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2020, 06:15:11 am »
Thanks Clint.  Yup, I know you do love the blue beast  :D  I also love you xx--xx and vinegar turn-of-phrase...strum-a-dum-dum and xx--xx-in-a-jar   :o   LMAO

I think if I could role model myself on one musician, and of course there are many I could pick, so consider this as much metaphoric as specific, it would be Neil Young, epitomised at the legendary Rust Never Sleeps show.  The acoustic troubadour set leading into the rocking electric set with Crazy Horse.  Strum-a-dum-dum followed by wailing away on Old Black. A masterful acoustic player who's ability to play harmony and melody on the acoustic simultaneously is stuff of dreams and an electric player of feeling rather than a super technical virtuoso player.

So bit of a long, down-the-rabbit-hole answer.  I do enjoy doing this and while it is a bit of a best effort, on-the-side deal for me now while my prime focus is troubadour and live performing, I will always give it a go since irrespective of quality it is lots of fun.  And I have been noodling with something that could maybe evolve into a backing track ... no promises, let's see ...






Thanks for watching and commenting, Bala, appreciate it.  Good to hear that the ideas I had in my head, around the motifs and space worked out OK.  Pleased to hear you liked the tone.  Produced that using the capabilities of my Blackstar ID:15 TVP.  The trick that worked for me was to use the Overdrive setting and turn the gain down to about 3/10.  The valve emulation also noticeably fattens up the sound.  In fact when I tried out the amp the sales dude was doing some of the playing and an A/B between this amp and a BS HT1R surprised him.  He'd advocated that you really need a tube amp to get a certain characteristic and the emulation got the ID amp to behave in a really similar way, could barely tell the difference ... at least I could barely tell the difference.  And the extra flexibility, better sound at low home practice levels from the ID amp swung me that way.

Your suggestion around what next sounds spot on.  I'd consider myself have moved on to step 2 i.e. not just running up and down the notes in a scale but rather trying to be a bit more musical.  The next step is certainly learning some licks to move from motifs and space to words, phrases, sentences and a whole paragraph ... to use Justin's metaphor for a solo. 

That said ... as I said above, my current approach is to focus on rehearsing songs to build up my repertoire, considering a song "done" once I have performed it at an Open Mic evening. In quotes because my acoustic play is still pretty much solid early days intermediate.  In fact, I'd say Beginner level if it weren't for the fact that I use the E and A shape barre chords.  Lots more room to grow my acoustic playing.  As I said above, would love to be able to play some of the NY classics that Justin teaches, like Old Man, Out On The Weekend.  And my technique time is focussed on schooling up my right-hand finger-picking technique.

But despite not setting goals to improve my lead play in the immediate future, I will keep showing up here and in Clint's word will take down the Blue Beast and let rip, just for the pure, unadulterated fun of it.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 08:59:16 am by close2u »

Offline DavidP

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2020, 06:24:30 am »
@ CT

Thanks for taking extra time to put up the camera and record your take as a video, not just an audio, Clint.  I love to listen to you play and also to see what you are doing. 

Your take was a great listen.  Firstly, what a cool looking and sounding guitar. Speaking of sound, what was involved in creating your tone (even if I am not dedicated to electric lead play, I still like to know)?  Loved that string scrape intro.  I also liked the occasional bend you threw in, showed how that technique is so essential ... with bends and vibrato you can probably play a whole solo using just3 fingering positions.

Hey, maybe there is a guitar challenge ... play an entire jam using just the 5 fingering positions of the BB Box on GBe strings. Or maybe not a good idea ... probably not a good idea for me since I'd struggle with the bends and vibrato  :o

Look forward to the next challenge in G ... as they say in the classics ... build it and I will come  ;)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 08:59:41 am by close2u »

Offline b1rdland

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2020, 06:50:49 am »
Good stuff Bala, I agree with CT, what you’re doing is just great, one note, two notes, 10 notes? Who cares, if it sounds good, it is good  :D
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 08:59:57 am by close2u »
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Offline CT

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2020, 06:57:23 am »

Thanks for listening and offering such a kind comment, @DP. I've gotten to where I want to build my tone with pedals rather than in the amp settings or the DAW. It seems more organic and easily recreated for playing live and less work with EQ, post-production and such.

I think the secret to making solos pop is to boost the mids. My go to is the El Mocambo into a Hustle Drive (clones of tubesreamer & OCD respectively). The strings are really hot though, and pickup every bit of movement, so it's a challenge fighting string noise. My signal chain for this track was: El Mocambo -> Hustle Drive -> Alpha Force Delay -> Tri-Reverb -> Mod Square: Rotary. I do regret recording from the amp mic'd, rather than direct into my audio interface. I think I lost a bit of dynamics and volume doing so.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 09:00:17 am by close2u »

Offline b1rdland

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2020, 06:58:21 am »
David, what a guitar! Have I seen that beauty before? It is lovely. Nice to see you stepping up the pressure on yourself, nice job! Learning riffs is one thing to do next, but in my experience, learning what I’d call “moves” has been more productive. If I spend ages learning a riff, then I’m going to damn well try and fit it in somewhere even if it doesn’t really go. With “moves” (short riffs, if you like) I can string these together with some improv to create something more fluent and original. I have a lesson from somebody saved on guitar moves, I’ll try and find it. Also, timing is worth working on.......bla bla bla metronome  ;D
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 09:00:55 am by close2u »
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Offline b1rdland

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2020, 07:08:34 am »
Very nice Clint! Especially that section around 1:40 - your playing is very smooth, I think you do this improv stuff a lot don’t you? I used to, using my looper, but haven’t for a while, you can get lost in the improv bubble for a while, but damn it’s good! I think this exercise has rekindled my interest, so thanks for kicking it all off! Oh by the way that guitar is very cool!
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 09:01:07 am by close2u »
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Offline b1rdland

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2020, 07:14:21 am »
I have a lesson from somebody saved on guitar moves, I’ll try and find it. Also, timing is worth working on.......bla bla bla metronome  ;D

Here it is - https://youtu.be/D7jV50wt-e0
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 09:01:44 am by close2u »
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Offline DavidP

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2020, 07:36:30 am »
I'm with you on the wya in which you are developing as a player, Clint.  It makes sense to me to move to pedals as you progress, for all the reasons you suggest.

I had to look up what a Mod Square: Rotary was  :P  Interesting ... if I think about what I did with my amp ... I used the OD1 voicing to perhaps kind of emulate what you got with El Mocambo and Justle Drive and then used a built-in Delay, Reverb and Modulation.  I turned the gain down partly because I was looking for fat but clean and partly because of string noise ... I can't tame that at this stage. When I used to play through the AI and apply pedals, amp and cabinet using Waves GTR, I would put a gate on when things were getting hot ... so hot that the beats was growling without any hands on the strings at all  :o

I suppose on the dynamics and volume you could comabt that by turning up the amp and (maybe) gain on the mic?  But I suppose that becomes socially unacceptable ... with your own family in the house, the next door neighbours and maybe even neighbours in the next block  ;D  My wife is friendly with our neighbour and at some point she mentioned I play guitar ... I know was the reply ... I'd been experimenting with VBB and the amp, turning it up loud enough to enjoy the visceral thrill of a loud, driven electric guitar  ;D
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 09:02:14 am by close2u »

Offline DavidP

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2020, 07:49:54 am »
@ b1rdland
Hey Steve, thanks for checking it out and being so encouraging.

The guitar ... I was lucky enough to be sent to the USA for work reasons.  I happened to be there around this time of year and had the President's Day public holiday free.  So off to Guitar Centre I uber'ed.  And there I was lucky enough to pick up this Epi LP Std Pro in a most beautiful quilt top blue.  Since then the guitar became known as Vincent Blue Beast.  Maggie came up with the Vincent when somebody suggested the knobs would be better in silver than the goldish colour they are ... made her think of a Van Gough painting.  Clint came up with the Blue Beast, as you sw in his earlier comment :)  Music instruments and gear are extra expensive in South Africa ... we pay a premium in duty, markup due to small market and weak currency.  So to buy in the USA and bring back home was too good an opportunity to miss, even though I didn't really need an electric ... anyhow, what has need got to do with it.

So I like to pull the electric out for these jams and when I record my originals I have a go at adding in a lead.  But it is very much best effort.  I haven't invested time beyond learning some scales as part of the Beginner Course and Level 3 of the music theory.  And as I said to Bala, my focus remains more on working at my acoustic play and sing for those Open Mic nights and the schooling of my right hand fingers.  I don't spend hours and hours daily and find I don't learn especially quickly, so for now I shall consider this lead play as just fun and feel no pressure at all.  But I did experience some time back when we did this on almost a weekly basis, that one gets better just by having a go, without deliberate practice.  Kind of the same thing has happened with my singing.  Though I know if I did invest time in deliberate practice, both singing and lead play, there would be mroe significant improvement.

That said, I shall take a look at the video you shared, because I am now curious and do like to just watch and allow the ideas to go into my sub-conscious.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 09:02:35 am by close2u »

Offline DavidP

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2020, 08:13:40 am »
Here it is - https://youtu.be/D7jV50wt-e0

Thanks for the share, Steve.

Guitar terminology is an interesting thing.  I have oft wondered about the difference between a lick and a riff ... not of course that it matters a great deal.  Just always remember and live by rule #1 ... if it sounds good it is good ,,, who cares if it was a cool sounding lick, riff or move :)

I don't know if you have explored some of Justin's lessons on the Blues Lead course.  I have looked because of my curiousity and he does pretty similar to Jim.  Firstly those basic techniques ... bends, hammer-on, pull-off and vibrato.  Then the licks he introduces right at the beginning seem similar in complexity to these 10 basic moves.

I really like this 10 basic moves video ... short, well demo'ed and I can see if one could play these 10 simple movements one could combine them to make more interesting licks and phrases.

Or to borrow Justin metaphor ... these are 10 short one syllable words.  And with these short syllables one can easily create longer words as Jim does at the end of his video, to make up some cool sentences.

I think if I was to work on one thing, the first thing to work on would be vibrato.  I suppose you can debate this and every person would have an opinion.  But seems to me that vibrato is must have.  I could play some tasty moves if one colours up invidual notes with vibrato.  And then maybe bending.  My reasoning being that while the sound would be different, I could pick notes that are sounded using either hammer-on or flick-off.  But there is something about a bend with some vibrato at the top of it :)

Oh to be a school kid with nothing else to do outside of school hours ... assuming not cutting class, which is what the legends seem to have done rather a lot of, just saying ... but play guitar.  And I spent those hours playing football and rugby ... ah well ... such is life ...

Offline close2u

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #46 on: February 16, 2020, 09:10:27 am »
@ David
Well done on giving Blue a little work out. Two quick things - when you come back to improv in earnest you need a vocabulary and language so yes riffs are the things. Also - stick some modulation effects on to help make your notes shimmer a little as you build a vibrato.

@ Clint lots of themes and running motifs in your piece. Well developed.

Offline DavidP

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #47 on: February 16, 2020, 09:13:40 am »
@ David
Well done on giving Blue a little work out. Two quick things - when you come back to improv in earnest you need a vocabulary and language so yes riffs are the things. Also - stick some modulation effects on to help make your notes shimmer a little as you build a vibrato.

Thanks very much, Richard ... do so appreciate the time and effort you put in to encouraging and assisting me as I adventure along.

Offline CT

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2020, 04:08:14 pm »
@B1rd, that is a great youtube lesson that you shared. Thanks for sharing, it's a real keeper. I've always called those "Clichés", which can be over used and become tiresome if not sprinkled in as a seasoning. The one thing he didn't go into was his excellent use of vibrato, this is an area that I would like to improve.

@DP, so good to hear you experimenting and trying to dial in your tone, and figuring out what works for you. Working with boosted mids and gain takes time and practice, but those mids are where a guitar sits in a mix, which speaks to the popularity of the Tube Screamer pedals (I've embraced the El Mocambo which is a TS-9 clone). Note that I still have a bit more work to do with string muting myself. Building out a pedal board is great fun, I mostly stick with clones. Consider learning to play with a bit of delay, it will fatten up your tone like nothing else.

@close, thanks for listening and for the nice comment. I had that melody and the middle bendy part stuck in my brain (as I mentioned previously). It's much harder to hit everything just right on a single play through, but I think I was inspired by @DPs one take play through video.

Offline b1rdland

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Re: Guitar Challenge 0013 - Jam Over Key of A Backing Track
« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2020, 07:17:54 pm »
In a post pearlier today in response to Mr close2u's 2011 improvs, I was bigging up playing the DAE strings as they're often neglected, so I thought I'd try an improv with just DAE strings over Clint's backing track

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