Author Topic: Need help labeling a specific chord  (Read 516 times)

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Offline akazero

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Need help labeling a specific chord
« on: February 03, 2020, 03:16:11 pm »
Hi!
Ok, so there's one chord that i Like a lot but i'm not really sure what it is... Here goes :

So in a major Key, chords go Like: I ii iii IV V7 iv m7b5.
The chord i'm talking about is thé 3rd. But instead of minor, you play it dominant seven. (Oasis does it a lot)

What is that chord? Is it a V7/vi (secondary dom) is it borrowed from an other Key? Or just an altération of thé minor diatonic chord?

Thanks! :)

Offline close2u

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Re: Need help labeling a specific chord
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2020, 03:27:56 pm »
Can you please give an example chord progression where this happens.

Offline akazero

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Re: Need help labeling a specific chord
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2020, 04:54:36 pm »
Sure,
E G#7 c#m A

It's the G#7 i'm interested in

Offline close2u

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Re: Need help labeling a specific chord
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2020, 08:19:59 pm »
E diatonic chords are:

E Major - I
F# minor - ii
G# minor - iii
A Major - IV
B Major - V
C# minor - vi (relative minor)
D# diminished - vii (commonly altered to m7b5)

Your rogue chord of G#7 is always followed by C# minor.

The diatonic chords of C# minor are:

C# minor - i
D# diminished - ii
E Major - III
F# minor - iv
G# minor - V
A - VI
B - VII


A V or V7 chord has the effect of wanting to pull move to the 'one' chord, to resolve to the root.

The G#7 is acting as the dominant V7 of the key of C# minor and pulls strongly to the c# minor chord.
It has the effect of seeming to create a small, temporary key change - modulation.

The G#7 chord is a 'borrowed' chord from the key of C# minor.

Does that help?

Offline akazero

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Re: Need help labeling a specific chord
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2020, 10:57:05 am »
No, doesn't really help TBH, here's why :

You say that my G#7 is a rogue chords within the E major Key. which i agree with.

Then you demonstrate how that G#7 is borrowed from the key of C#m. BUT,

C#m is the relative minor key to E Major. meaning the notes and diatonic chords are the exact same in these 2 keys.

thus G#7 is also a rogue chord within the C#m key. As you said, C#m's V chord is G#m.

Of course, the V chord of a minor key is often changed to a Major or Dom7 chord for stronger, more dramatic resolution to the tonic (thus implying harmonic minor)

So, I woudn't call it "borrowing a chord from C#m" because, to me E ionian and C# aeolian are the same key. (this is why your answer bug me)

but, it looks like, maybe, what's happening here is that we are using the trick of making the minor 5 chord of a minor key dom7 BUT, using that trick in a major key which is a quite interesting way to look at things... (hope i'm making sense here)

right now, i think the way to look at this chord that makes the most sense to me is to see it as a secondary dominant though

Offline close2u

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Re: Need help labeling a specific chord
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2020, 04:19:34 pm »
Apologies.
Yes - I mistakenly omitted mention of the often used trick of changing the v of a minor key in to a V7.
You picked up on that.
The progression is still E Major with an implied modulation to the relative C#minor.
In essence, you've figured it all out yourself.
 :)

Offline Matt125

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Re: Need help labeling a specific chord
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2020, 11:04:35 pm »
You could call it the V7/vi  chord. The V of vi. vi being the key of C#.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_chord

e.g



 

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