Author Topic: My initial approach to playing modes  (Read 6869 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline diademgrove

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1006
  • Good Vibes 48
My initial approach to playing modes
« on: August 19, 2019, 10:38:21 am »
https://soundcloud.com/diademgrove/modes/s-ZXhxO

DavidP and I discussed modes on the Cabaret thread. This is how I started practising modal playing a few years ago. I recorded a simple rhythm track (this one is just D major). I then played a simple riff using the first position of the Bm pentatonic scale (Aeolian mode). Moved the riff up to the Em pentatonic (Dorian mode), back to Bm minor, down to the F#m pentatonic (Phrygian mode), back to Bm. I then played a second riff and made the same shifts between the pentatonic positions. Finally I repeated the first riff.

It looks much more complicated than it sounds as you will hear from the track.

I was able to hear how the different modes sounded over the same chord. Each mode gave me a different mood. As I got used to playing like this I introduced more notes from the pentatonic scale, then from the full scale.

Hope that is helpful.

Any questions just ask. I'm not an expert but I'll try my best

Keith

Offline LBro

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 3525
  • Good Vibes 115
  • Well I am working on it.
    • YouTube offerings
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2019, 11:30:15 am »
Fair enough, thanks for sharing and interesting!

My question is this. How do you know the modes you have chosen will go over your backing chord? Is it by ear, theory or some other means?

Rock it down,
LB
You can rock a bit here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNOrtongjfX4RI33JWKwn7Q/featured

"I just experiment in guitar and music, at times something good comes of it..."
LB

Offline diademgrove

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1006
  • Good Vibes 48
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2019, 12:38:51 pm »
Fair enough, thanks for sharing and interesting!

My question is this. How do you know the modes you have chosen will go over your backing chord? Is it by ear, theory or some other means?

Rock it down,
LB

A bit of both really. I started with the theory. For a D major chord you have 7 modes if you include the D major scale. The modes are based on the chords of the scale. Em the 2nd chord means you can use the Em scale to play over the D. F#m, the third chord means you can use the F#m scale. G major, the fourth chord, means you can use the G major scale, etc.

Once you know what scales are available you rely on your ear to see how good or bad it sounds. Each mode has its own flavour so you match the flavour with how you want the song to sound.

The final ingredient for me was trial and error. Does what I played sound good.

Hope that helps,

Keith

Offline LBro

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 3525
  • Good Vibes 115
  • Well I am working on it.
    • YouTube offerings
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2019, 01:39:45 pm »
A bit of both really. I started with the theory. For a D major chord you have 7 modes if you include the D major scale. The modes are based on the chords of the scale. Em the 2nd chord means you can use the Em scale to play over the D. F#m, the third chord means you can use the F#m scale. G major, the fourth chord, means you can use the G major scale, etc.

Once you know what scales are available you rely on your ear to see how good or bad it sounds. Each mode has its own flavour so you match the flavour with how you want the song to sound.

The final ingredient for me was trial and error. Does what I played sound good.

Hope that helps,

Keith
Well, to me this shows my lack of theory is not helping one bit on this end. Have some dues to pay there.

If by "does what I played sound good?" - Yes, but as you say it imparts moods that differ. Good stuff though!

Rock and cheers!
Lb

You can rock a bit here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNOrtongjfX4RI33JWKwn7Q/featured

"I just experiment in guitar and music, at times something good comes of it..."
LB

Offline Bytron08

  • Arena Rocker
  • *****
  • Posts: 921
  • Good Vibes 59
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2019, 03:04:45 pm »
Modes are way to complicated for me lol

Offline DavidP

  • All Time Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 5695
  • Good Vibes 324
  • You're always learning about guitars-Keef Richards
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2019, 03:23:56 pm »
Interesting,  thanks for sharing Keith.

Offline DarrellW

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 2816
  • Good Vibes 134
  • Black country bloke, ijut intollerant 😂
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2019, 04:15:51 pm »
Good stuff, modes interested me down to my liking the music of Joe Satriani - his use of modes is magical!
This is interesting and informative for anyone who is really interested


Still here, still learning - no longer letting Fibromyalgia get in the way, it sucks but doesn’t have to mean your life stops!

Offline DavidP

  • All Time Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 5695
  • Good Vibes 324
  • You're always learning about guitars-Keef Richards
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2019, 04:43:28 pm »
Fabulous video Darrell. Can't begin to imagine knowing all the modes in the different positions. A lot to learn theory wise, keeping in mind that I want to be able to use each theory step in a musical way. So still plenty to work on just getting musical with maj scale and minor pentatonic,  in the first positions  :o

Offline stitch101

  • All Time Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 5139
  • Good Vibes 214
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2019, 06:07:31 pm »
Keith your understanding of modes is flawed.
Modes are based on the notes of the major scale not the  Chords in that scale.

For example you don't play the E minor Scale over the D. If you notice in the video
Darrell posted Joe is starting each mode in the same root note.
The D major Scale D E F# G A B C# D
The Dorian Scale in D is the intervals of 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
D E F G A B C D which would be played over a Dm
The E minor Scale  E F# G A B C D E
If you arrange the notes of the E minor scale in the key of D you get
D E F# G A B C D this is the 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 intervals which is the Mixolydian mode

The notes in the F# minor scale are F# G# A B C# D E F Arranged for the key of D
They are the intervals of 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 which is the Lydian mode in the key of D


« Last Edit: August 19, 2019, 06:29:12 pm by stitch101 »

Offline diademgrove

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1006
  • Good Vibes 48
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2019, 07:24:29 pm »
Keith your understanding of modes is flawed.
Modes are based on the notes of the major scale not the  Chords in that scale.

For example you don't play the E minor Scale over the D. If you notice in the video
Darrell posted Joe is starting each mode in the same root note.
The D major Scale D E F# G A B C# D
The Dorian Scale in D is the intervals of 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
D E F G A B C D which would be played over a Dm
The E minor Scale  E F# G A B C D E
If you arrange the notes of the E minor scale in the key of D you get
D E F# G A B C D this is the 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7 intervals which is the Mixolydian mode

The notes in the F# minor scale are F# G# A B C# D E F Arranged for the key of D
They are the intervals of 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 which is the Lydian mode in the key of D

Thanks for that. As I said it was a question of taking a misunderstood grasp of theory and applying it and listening to what it sounds like. If I understand you correctly you can play the Em scale over a D major chord but its not called the dorian mode but the mixolydian.

Offline stitch101

  • All Time Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 5139
  • Good Vibes 214
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2019, 07:56:18 pm »
Yes and no. Modes are made up of the Parent MAJOR Scale.not minor
The E minor scale is ithe Aeolian Mode of G major so in theory you would
be playing the same notes as the G Major scale but using D as the tomal
center.

Just like you use E as the tonal center of the G major scale to play the E minor
scale.I know it sound confusing.and it's a lot to rap your head around.
So in short if you play the notes of the G major scale and us the note D as your
tonal center you will be playing D mixolydian.
If you play the E minor scale over a D chord and ue thenote E as your tonal center
you are just playing a E minor scale over D.
But it you shift your tonal center to the note D you will be playing the D mixolydian.
Will sound really cool over the D7 chord progresson because of the b7 note.

Hope this didn't make your head hit. Its a lot to take in.

Offline redrhodie

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1787
  • Good Vibes 89
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2019, 10:18:01 pm »
When I picture Keith's head exploding, I picture confetti coming out of it.

Offline diademgrove

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1006
  • Good Vibes 48
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2019, 10:23:44 pm »
Yes and no. Modes are made up of the Parent MAJOR Scale.not minor
The E minor scale is ithe Aeolian Mode of G major so in theory you would
be playing the same notes as the G Major scale but using D as the tomal
center.

Just like you use E as the tonal center of the G major scale to play the E minor
scale.I know it sound confusing.and it's a lot to rap your head around.
So in short if you play the notes of the G major scale and us the note D as your
tonal center you will be playing D mixolydian.
If you play the E minor scale over a D chord and ue thenote E as your tonal center
you are just playing a E minor scale over D.
But it you shift your tonal center to the note D you will be playing the D mixolydian.
Will sound really cool over the D7 chord progresson because of the b7 note.

Hope this didn't make your head hit. Its a lot to take in.

Whilst listening to Wolves v Manchester United I worked it out. It was fairly straightforward once I'd read Justin's explanation of parallel modes. I treated it as a maths  problem and worked through it.

My confusion was calling the Em scale the Dorian mode rather than the mixolydian. I now know each scale for the parallel modes in D. Of course the scales will need to be re-arranged to make the root D in each case. However the notes in Em pentatonic position 1 are all contained in the parallel D mixolydian mode.

In my example I started the riff on B when I moved to the Em pentatonic shape and ended on E before playing F# when I moved back to the Bm pentatonic shape.  My short example finishes on B, which makes the D major a D6 chord at least for the last beat.

I didn't realise you had to play a D note every time you changed mode in a D major chord vamp for it to be called a mode. Seems a bit restrictive. My short example sounded alright so I think I might ignore that bit, sorry.

Whilst I found the Joe Satriani lesson interesting his playing is so far advanced that I couldn't put any of it into practice. Playing simple riffs like my example allows me to hear how playing the same melodic shapes in different positions sound, with the aim of playing more complicated things later.

Thanks a lot you have cleared up a major misunderstanding. No wonder my playing this morning didn't sound particularly sad :) I might try again tomorrow.

Keith


Offline stitch101

  • All Time Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 5139
  • Good Vibes 214
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2019, 02:03:32 am »
One thing you're missing is there are 7 notes in a mode. Pentatonic scales only contain
5 notes.
So when you say the E minor pentatonic scale notes are contained in the mixolydian mode
you are missing the fact that the other notes in the mixolydian are note contained in the
pentatonic scale. What makes modes is the note missing from the pentatonic scales.
The Dorian mode contain a 6th its the only minor scale that has a 6th.

You're not doing yourself any favors by thinking in pentatonic (5 notes) modes have 7 notes.
If you keep thinking pentatonic you will never understand modes. You'll just be playing the
pentatonic scales over chords and never get the model sound.



Offline CT

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 2317
  • Good Vibes 119
    • YouTube
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2019, 04:21:44 am »
It's perfectly fine to think in terms of the pentatonic scale. There isn't a thing in the world wrong with that. More important than it being a five note scale is that tonally the pentatonic scale consists of full note steps. There are no half steps. When you add half-step notes you will begin playing a mode. Three notes per string with half tones? A mode. Which one? Who cares, does it sound good? If yes, and if you really do care deconstruct the notes. Are you playing the major or minor scale? They are modes.

Playing chords from a different key over a chord progression or scale will most likely sound inharmonious and discordant. It's important to know the chords in a key.

Offline stitch101

  • All Time Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 5139
  • Good Vibes 214
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2019, 04:50:27 am »
More important than it being a five note scale is that tonally the pentatonic scale consists of full note steps. There are no half steps.

Actually this is not true. The intervals of the pentatonic scale are 1 2 3 5 6. From interval 3 to 5
Is 1 and a half intervals.  Interval 3 to 4 is a half step and 4 to 5 is a full step making 3 to 5
1 and a half steps. In the minor pentatonic from the 1 to the b3 is also 1 and a half step.

Quote
Are you playing the major or minor scale? They are modes
This statment is true. But pentatonic scales are not modes.

Quote
It's perfectly fine to think in terms of the pentatonic scale
This is also sorta true because the Pentatonic scale comes from the major scale.
But the Keith was referring to the E minor pentatonic scale. Which is based from
the E minor scale which is the Aeolian mode of G Major scale which is the Ionian
Mode so I guess in theory you could say its Ok.



« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 05:10:18 am by stitch101 »

Offline diademgrove

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1006
  • Good Vibes 48
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2019, 09:23:08 am »
Modes always confused me but I wanted to learn how to use them. I understood some of the theory but not enough. I'd seen Joe Satriani explain modes and thought bloody hell I'll never be able to play like that and what he was saying sailed over my head. I had to find a way into modal playing that didn't scare the life out of me.

I knew the minor pentatonic pattern in the first position and the notes on the 6th string. I knew that D major scale contained the chords Em F#m and Bm so I played simple melodies from the Em F#m and Bm pentatonic scales over a D chord and listened to the results. What I did was turn the bit of theory I thought I understood into music. I may have got the names of the modes wrong but I could hear what my playing sounded like when I played it back. I could tell there was a difference in mood between what position the pentatonic pattern was in. The notes didn't sound out of place so I continued to misname them. However, hearing simple modal melodies was a huge breakthrough for me.

I didn't sound anything like Joe Satriani but my fear of modes started to disappear. It was no longer a complicated theory, it was now sounds coming out of my guitar. When I first started swimming I didn't do breaststroke, crawl and butterfly, I doggy paddled. The other swimming strokes came after. getting in the water and trying to stay afloat was the hardest step. Once in the swimming pool everything else followed on from my initial splashing around.

Playing simple melodies based on the pentatonic scales got me in the water and splashing around. 

Some of my later playing sounded more eastern and I did start experimenting with the full 7 note scale but the first steps were the most important. They gave me something to build on.

The track at the top of this thread is fairly basic, nothing too complicated, a simple melodic pattern played in three places on the fretboard and some D major strumming. It was me doggy paddling on guitar. If it helps other people get in the modal waters fine, if not, that's fine as well.

Finally isn't limiting yourself to 4 or 5 notes from a scale still modal playing? I understood that a melody with 5 notes from the major scale played over I IV V I progression is still in the Ionian mode. Even if the 5 notes are the notes from the major pentatonic scale.

Offline DavidP

  • All Time Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 5695
  • Good Vibes 324
  • You're always learning about guitars-Keef Richards
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #17 on: August 20, 2019, 10:02:59 am »
At risk of further muddying the water, since my theory knowledge is prettymuch what is taught in the BC plus new PMT up to level 3, here's what my understanding is.

There are 3 things relevant. I link them like this ... for every key you have a number of modes (7) and every mode has a scale.

The first mode in the key is Ionian and the scale intervals are W W H W W W H. Also referred to as major scale. Othrr modes in the same key would start with the same note but the scale intervals would be different.

Assuming that is correctly understood so far, now is where things get a bit fuzzy...head explosion inducing  ;D

If I pick a mode at random say dorian and use the key of C then C Ionian is my familiar friend C major scale with no sharps or flats. C dorian would be different intervals, start on C and I expect would have some sharps or flats. And the notes in the C Dorian scale would match the notes in one of the other major scales.

Actually, to try push this on a bit further...

The notes in A Aolian would match the notes of C major since I understand Aolian mode is the Natural Minor scale and A being the relative minor of C.

So if you know the major scale in all keys then to improvise modally over a single chord, say G, would theoretically mean knowing which major scale's notes matched which mode of G and then playing phrases from that major scale perhaps targetting the G note. And in a simple way, you could play licks using Em pentatonic over a G chord and would be playing G Aolian, though maybe losing some of the flavour due to losing two of the seven notes of the full G Aolian scale.

Last bit assumes that minor pentatonic is formed by dropping two notes from natural minor scale.

And now my head is about ready to burst  :o

How did I do. If horribly wrong and confused, please say so and I'll delete this ... as well as submitting myself for some MIB deneuralisation  ;D

And then back to basic fingerpicking  ;D

Offline diademgrove

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1006
  • Good Vibes 48
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #18 on: August 20, 2019, 10:40:14 am »
DavidP that's a fair summary.

C dorian is the Bb major scale (see https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-lessons/modes-in-parallel-sc-506 for Justin's explanation of how modes in parallel work for each of the notes of the C scale).

You could jam with the Bb major pentatonic over a C chord, or else learn to play the full 7 notes of the Bb major scale. To complicate matters even further you could also play notes from G minor pentatonic over the C.

You could target the C note as the tonic unless you're as weird as me and think, why not target another note in the chord or even better an extension :) The beauty of modern technology is you can sit in your room and record what you do and see what it sounds like. You sometimes learn more by getting things wrong than getting things right. A prime example being me getting the names of the modes wrong.

Justin in the above lesson provides a formula for matching the relevant major scale to the 7 notes. You just need to apply that to say the G scale and you'll be cooking.

I hope you give it a try sometime.

Keith

Offline close2u

  • Administrator
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12882
  • Good Vibes 564
  • Teesside, North East England.
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2019, 02:01:52 pm »
... for every key you have a number of modes (7) and every mode has a scale.
Yes - with a caveat. Every mode is a scale.

Quote
The first mode in the key is Ionian and the scale intervals are W W H W W W H. Also referred to as major scale.
Yes

Quote
Other modes in the same key would start with the same note but the scale intervals would be different.
No.
In the same key you need to be focussing on exactly the same notes, not the same starting note only.
So the 2nd mode of any given Major scale is the exact same notes of that major scale but starting on the 2nd note of it.

The Key of C

C Ionian / Major
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 1
C - D - E - F - G - A - B - C
  W - W - H - W - W - W - H

D Dorian
1 - 2 - b3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - b7 - 1
D - E -  F - G - A - B -  C - D
  W -  H - W - W - W -  H - W

E Phrygian
1 - b2 - b3 - 4 - 5 - b6 - b7 - 1
E -  F -  G - A - B -  C -  D - E
  H -  W -  W - W -  H -  W - W

F Lydian
1 - 2 - 3 - #4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 1
F - G - A -  B - C - D - E - F
  W - W -  W - H - W - W - H

G Mixolydian
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - b7 - 1
G - A - B - C - D - E -  F - G
  W - W - H - W - W - W -  H

A Aeolian
1 - 2 - b3 - 4 - 5 - b6 - b7 - 1
A - B -  C - D - E -  F -  G - A
  W - H -  W - W - W -  H -  W

B Locrian
1 - b2 - b3 - 4 - b5 - b6 - b7 - 1
B -  C -  D - E -  F -  G -  A - B
  H -  W -  W -  W -  H -  W - W


All seven modes in the 'key of C major' have been constructed using just the 7 notes (no sharps or flats) of the C Major scale and each one starts on a different note. If this was a keyboard, all seven modes are played only on the white keys.

Quote
If I pick a mode at random say dorian and use the key of C then C Ionian is my familiar friend C major scale with no sharps or flats. C dorian would be different intervals, start on C and I expect would have some sharps or flats. And the notes in the C Dorian scale would match the notes in one of the other major scales.

Yes.
Dorian is the 2nd mode. The note before C alphabetically is B. But you need to step back a whole tone, not a half (because the 2nd note of a Major scale is a whole tone higher). So you would have to use the 'B' as a flattened pitch = Bb. Therefore C Dorian is the 2nd mode of Bb Ionian / Major.


Quote
The notes in A Aolian would match the notes of C major since I understand Aolian mode is the Natural Minor scale and A being the relative minor of C.
Yes.
A Aeolian = 6th mode of C Major.

Quote
... to improvise modally over a single chord, say G, would theoretically mean knowing which major scale's notes matched which mode of G and then playing phrases from that major scale perhaps targetting the G note.

You would want to play the note G, but if your aim is to 'hear' the different flavours you would want to target the unique notes / intervals.

For instance:
Dorian is a 'minor' type of scale as it has a flattened 3rd but unlike the 'natural' minor scale (Aeolian) or the other minor mode, the Phrygian, it has a natural 6th so that would be a note to target to extract the unique Dorian juice.

Phrygian is also 'minor' in nature but it uniquely has a flattened 2nd so you would target that note for its mysteries to be unraveled.

Lydian is a type of 'major' scale but it has a sharp 4th which is where its goodness resides so target that note.

Mixolydian is another major type - almost identical to the Ionian but with a flattened 7th. The flat 7 is a big deal in blues / blues-rock and the Mixolydian is often used in these genre types.

Aeolian is the 'natural' minor so in many ways will sound familiar. Target the flat 6th.

I have linked this several times and it is worth linking again -




Quote
... you could play licks using Em pentatonic over a G chord and would be playing G Aolian, though maybe losing some of the flavour due to losing two of the seven notes of the full G Aolian scale.

No.
G Aeolian is the 6th mode of Bb Major.

E minor pentatonic is a subset of E Aeolian.
E Aeolian is the 6th mode of G Major.
So if you play E minor pentatonic over a G Major chord you are approximating a minor type of mode that derives from the G Major scale, not a minor type of mode with root note G.
There are three such modes.
The 2nd mode of G Major is A Dorian
The 3rd mode of G Major is B Phrygian.
The 6th mode of G Major is E Aeolian.

Compare the five notes of the E minor pentatonic with the seven notes of the three minor type modes derived from the G Major scale.
Which notes are missing?
Are they key ingredients of their characters?

E minor pentatonic
E - G - A - B - D - E

A Dorian (flavour note b6 = G)
A - B - C - D - E - F# - G - A

B Phrygian (flavour note b2 = C)
B - C - D - E - F# - G - A - B

E Aeolian (flavour note b6 = C)
E - F# - G - A - B - C - D - E

The Dorian mode has its essence matched with the E minor pentatonic = the note G = the flat 6th.
Neither Phrygian nor Aeolian have theirs matched up. So for any given key, minor pentatonic is a better fit for approximating the Dorian mode rather then Phrygian or Aeolian. Indeed, in Justin's blues lead lessons he does reach a place where he introduces the Dorian flavour to blues playing by adding on notes to the minor pentatonic. (see additional post below)
Quote
Last bit assumes that minor pentatonic is formed by dropping two notes from natural minor scale.
That bit is correct - not an assumption. Just a de facto piece of theory.

Quote
And now my head is about ready to burst  :o
Hold on yo your hat ha ha.
 ;D ;D ;D


Quote
How did I do. If horribly wrong and confused, please say so and I'll delete this ... as well as submitting myself for some MIB deneuralisation  ;D
Don't delete it - we learn from these discussions.
Although a MIB neuraliser may be useful ha ha.

Quote
And then back to basic fingerpicking  ;D

Finger picking ... and breathe!
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 08:32:16 pm by close2u »

Offline DavidP

  • All Time Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 5695
  • Good Vibes 324
  • You're always learning about guitars-Keef Richards
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2019, 03:40:54 pm »
Thanks Keith and Richard for more info.

Took a look at a few of Justin's lessons. For all those reading, still confused and keen to become less confused, of course those lessons are a good place to go.

I'm still a bit confused but less so, maybe overwhelmed better.

Let me try another simple statement that may or may not lead to better understanding...

If improvising over a C chord, then you could play licks using  notes in the Bb major scale since C would be the tonal centre and Bb would be parent major scale of C dorian.

I will try some of this in due course.

Meanwhile just discovered that with a little practice I'll be able to make a much better job of Blowing in the Wind using my go to picking pattern than I have achieved strumming.  I'd have never have thought it. Will put my hat on and record it in due ckurse  ;)

Offline LBro

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 3525
  • Good Vibes 115
  • Well I am working on it.
    • YouTube offerings
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #21 on: August 20, 2019, 04:32:03 pm »

LB - (lots omitted)

Finger picking ... and breath!

Close - Just want to thank you for taking the time to pen this. I thought it worthy enough to salt it away in a safe spot. When I am ready to wrap my head around this, it will be great to refer back to!

Now for "exploding heads" - I suggest a pain reliever and rest...  ;)

Rocking modes - A new one from,
LB
You can rock a bit here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNOrtongjfX4RI33JWKwn7Q/featured

"I just experiment in guitar and music, at times something good comes of it..."
LB

Offline stitch101

  • All Time Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 5139
  • Good Vibes 214
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #22 on: August 20, 2019, 04:47:38 pm »
I'm posting this for everyone's benefit except Richard because he and I are the only ones who
understand modes.
This will save you guys a lot of time later on when you are ready to tackle modes.

https://youtu.be/O1C9sGuhbpk




Offline close2u

  • Administrator
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12882
  • Good Vibes 564
  • Teesside, North East England.
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #23 on: August 20, 2019, 08:33:09 pm »
Close - Just want to thank you for taking the time to pen this. I thought it worthy enough to salt it away in a safe spot.
No worries - be aware I have modified slightly for typos, clarity and alignment too.

Offline close2u

  • Administrator
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12882
  • Good Vibes 564
  • Teesside, North East England.
Re: My initial approach to playing modes
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2019, 08:43:31 pm »
I mentioned above that Justin extends the minor pentatonic to add Dorian flavour to blues lead playing.
He calls the lessons The Dorian Approach.









These two lessons tie a lot together.

Justin teaches the minor pentatonic in the key of A first.
He teaches the Major scale in the key of G first.

It is no coincidence.
The A minor pentatonic scale contains five of the seven notes of the G Major scale.

A minor pentatonic:
A - C - D - E - G - A

G Major:
G - A - B - C - D - E - F# - G

Take the seven notes of G Major, shift them all back one position so they start on A and you have:
A - B - C - D - E - F# - G - A

It is the addition of the two notes I have emboldened that takes you from playing a five-note minor pentatonic to playing a seven note modal scale.
And that scale is A Dorian - the 2nd mode of G Major.

 

Get The Forum As A Mobile App