Author Topic: Looper pedal with Boss Katana 50  (Read 1353 times)

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Offline sairfingers

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Looper pedal with Boss Katana 50
« on: May 15, 2019, 01:31:28 pm »
Hi Guys.
I know my options are limited if I want to use a looper pedal with my Katana 50. My understanding is that it will record a riff or progression ‘clean’ but any effects that I then apply to the amp/guitar accompaniment will also be applied to the loop. Probably ok for just practice by myself?

However, I came across this post from ‘majik’’ on another post.
“You couldn't do that on a Katana 50 (or any other amp without an FX loop). However, you could achieve this on any amp by adding an external pedal, such as an overdrive or distortion pedal.”

Could anyone expand on this for me. I know there are similar posts on the forum and I apologise if I’m repeating a topic but I can’t find a better explanation. The K50 has lots of built in effects, so how could I achieve greater flexibility without duplicating things?

Also, what pedals (looper and whatever else I need) do you guys recommend.

Thanks



Martin D28 Reimagined:Gibson SG Standard:Boss Katana 50:Digitech Trio+.
BC Feb 2018 - Apr 2019. May 2019 consolidating and starting IM.
Played a Framus 5/50 Calypso Archtop 1968-72. Then life got in the way. Don’t know where that guitar or the years went!

Offline CT

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Re: Looper pedal with Boss Katana 50
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2019, 02:49:21 pm »
You just put the looper at the end of a pedal chain. Play clean into the looper, let the loop play, and then turn on delay, fuzz or whatever pedal you have before the looper and play over the loop. The delay/fuzz are in front of the looper, so they will play over the top of the loop. The loop will not be colored by the delay/fuzz.

Offline Majik

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Re: Looper pedal with Boss Katana 50
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2019, 04:03:57 pm »
The problem with the K50 (and most other modelling amps with onboard effects) is that, without an FX loop, there's normally no way to connect the looper so it records the effects, which is really what you need.

The only option with something like the K50 is to connect the looper at the front of the amp between the amp and the guitar, and this will record the "dry" sound of the guitar with no effects, which isn't useful for looping unless you want to have the same sound for everything.

Cheers,

Keith

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Guitars: PRS Singlecut S2, Fender Tele Lite Ash, G&L Legacy Tribute, Freshman Apollo 2 OCBX
Amps: Bugera G5 Head, Boss Katana 100
All sorts of other stuff.

Offline Majik

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Re: Looper pedal with Boss Katana 50
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2019, 07:38:06 pm »
Given the constraints of the K50, would I be wasting my money buying a Boss RC3 loop pedal which has drum rhythms built into in? I know all my loops and overdubs would have the same sound fx.

Not only would all the loops and overdubs have the same FX, but so would the drum tracks. in other words, if you turned on delay on the Katana, it would cause the drums to have the delay on them. If you turn on some distortion, it will make the drums sound distorted.

IMO this pretty much limits you to using clean tones on the Katana whilst you are using the looper.

Whether it's a waste of money or not is hard to say, but it's a big limitation and, IMO, it could be very frustrating.

Unfortunately, it's difficult to suggest other options which aren't either clunky to use, relatively costly, or both. One thing to consider is to get a cheaper looper and to use a drum beats app like Loopz on your phone, and plug that into the line in of the amp. In that way, you get the drum beats unaffected, and you won't be spending lots of money.

The next step would probably be a separate multifx unit with a built-in looper, and ignore the FX on the Katana whilst looping.

Another alternative is to use your PC and  DAW to record the Katana USB output and then play this back to play along to instead of a looper.

Cheers,

Keith
Guitars: PRS Singlecut S2, Fender Tele Lite Ash, G&L Legacy Tribute, Freshman Apollo 2 OCBX
Amps: Bugera G5 Head, Boss Katana 100
All sorts of other stuff.

Offline sairfingers

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Re: Looper pedal with Boss Katana 50
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2019, 07:45:48 pm »
Opinions please!
Given the constraints of the K50, would I be wasting my money (£115) buying a Boss RC3 loop pedal which has drum rhythms built into in? I know all my loops and overdubs would be ’clean’ or would all have the same fx although I read somewhere if I adjust the volume of the guitar, I could change the sound a bit. Perhaps use different pup combinations for different overdubs?
Any other ideas/options are welcome!
Martin D28 Reimagined:Gibson SG Standard:Boss Katana 50:Digitech Trio+.
BC Feb 2018 - Apr 2019. May 2019 consolidating and starting IM.
Played a Framus 5/50 Calypso Archtop 1968-72. Then life got in the way. Don’t know where that guitar or the years went!

Offline sairfingers

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Re: Looper pedal with Boss Katana 50
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2019, 08:37:59 am »
Thanks Majik. That was very helpful advice. I agree with you, it’s going to be frustrating, costly and clunky to get anything going. And I know from experience of life that things falling into these categories are too much bother and have a short lifespan!

I’m leaning towards your suggestion of a cheaper looper (Boss RC1 perhaps?) and a drum beat app. At the end of the day this is all so I can jam with myself and have a bit of fun. I’m never going to be performing!

Thanks again for the ‘back down to earth’ advice.
Martin D28 Reimagined:Gibson SG Standard:Boss Katana 50:Digitech Trio+.
BC Feb 2018 - Apr 2019. May 2019 consolidating and starting IM.
Played a Framus 5/50 Calypso Archtop 1968-72. Then life got in the way. Don’t know where that guitar or the years went!

Offline close2u

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Re: Looper pedal with Boss Katana 50
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2019, 08:49:16 am »
Check out the Digitech Trio +

You get to create your own backing track of bass / drums that listens to your input and plays appropriately ... with many changeable parameters to suit ...

Then you get to record multiple layered loops of guitar - rhythm parts would fit in here.

Then you get to play your lead over the whole 'band'.

And it has the option to play lead 'clean' ... the same signal / tone you recorded the loop with plus two layers of FX ... basically two levels of drive.

Plus it can (if you have an FX loop on your amp or a separate amp / set of speakers such as monitors / pa speakers etc) be used in tandem with a pedals / pedalboard / multi-fx if the onboard fx are not enough for you.

I've recently bought one.
I have not yet had the time to use it but I know long-term it could be great.
I will set it up with - bass / drum going in to a cheap acoustic amp I bought 2nd hand and the guitar going round in to a multi-fx unit then that signal going in to my guitar amp.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 09:58:38 am by close2u »

Offline Majik

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Re: Looper pedal with Boss Katana 50
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2019, 09:10:27 am »
Actually, Close is right: the Trio+ would probably be a great option for you.

Cheers,

Keith

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Guitars: PRS Singlecut S2, Fender Tele Lite Ash, G&L Legacy Tribute, Freshman Apollo 2 OCBX
Amps: Bugera G5 Head, Boss Katana 100
All sorts of other stuff.

Offline sairfingers

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Re: Looper pedal with Boss Katana 50
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2019, 10:16:12 am »
Check out the Digitech Trio +
Wow, I’ve just googled this and it looks like an amazing piece of kit! Thanks for the suggestion close.
I haven’t digested all the tech data, but presumably the drum/bass etc. wouldn’t be subject to delay, distortion etc. if these fx were used on the overdubs? Remembering that the K50 does not have an fx loop.
Martin D28 Reimagined:Gibson SG Standard:Boss Katana 50:Digitech Trio+.
BC Feb 2018 - Apr 2019. May 2019 consolidating and starting IM.
Played a Framus 5/50 Calypso Archtop 1968-72. Then life got in the way. Don’t know where that guitar or the years went!

Offline close2u

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Re: Looper pedal with Boss Katana 50
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2019, 10:49:47 am »
... presumably the drum/bass etc. wouldn’t be subject to delay, distortion etc. if these fx were used on the overdubs? Remembering that the K50 does not have an fx loop.

You play a chord progression to 'teach' the trio how to play the part.
Works best with a very simple play through and emphasis on the beats.
No fancy strumming, picking, syncopation.
Just really, really simple when you're teaching the box what to play.

Then the drums and bass start.
You can choose loads and loads of styles etc plus change volume and tempo of drums / bass.
They come out clean.

Then you can engage the looper and record the actual chords / rhythm you want to have in the backing.
This could be clean or with one of the 2 additional in-built fx applied.
The in-built fx does not affect the sound of the drums and bass here.
Then you can disengage looper 'record' and just jam / improv etc.
You can do this with no fx or with one of the 2 levels of in-built fx.
Again - applying the fx here does not effect the drums / bass. Nor does it affect the looped guitar part (with the caveat that you may have recorded the loop with some fx ... no additional fx will be added to the looped guitar).

You can do this all in to the front end of one amp no probs.

For additional options of having lots of fx you can do I suggested above.
But you don't have the extra gear (amps / pedals / multi-fx etc) yet so just use it in to your Katana as a stand alone single box for drums, bass, looped guitar then lead with optional fx on the latter.

Offline Majik

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Re: Looper pedal with Boss Katana 50
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2019, 11:00:04 am »
It may also be possible, with the correct lead, to take the Mixer out from the Trio+ into the Aux in of the Katana, which would give you a pretty good working setup.

If I get a chance I will try this with my Trio+. At the moment it's connected to my K100 via the FX loop. I need to see if I can find a suitable cable.

Cheers,

Keith
Guitars: PRS Singlecut S2, Fender Tele Lite Ash, G&L Legacy Tribute, Freshman Apollo 2 OCBX
Amps: Bugera G5 Head, Boss Katana 100
All sorts of other stuff.

Offline sairfingers

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Re: Looper pedal with Boss Katana 50
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2019, 12:51:39 pm »
Thanks for taking the time to give me all this info Majik/Close! One more question. If the K50 has a ‘patch’ loaded, or some fx set, will that affect things? Do I switch all K50 fx off and only use the fx built into the Trio+?

If I’m going to spend this much money on a pedal, I need to be sure of what to expect.

Majik
What results do you get if you connect your Trio+ into your K100 not using the fx loop.

Thanks again guys.
Martin D28 Reimagined:Gibson SG Standard:Boss Katana 50:Digitech Trio+.
BC Feb 2018 - Apr 2019. May 2019 consolidating and starting IM.
Played a Framus 5/50 Calypso Archtop 1968-72. Then life got in the way. Don’t know where that guitar or the years went!

Offline Majik

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Re: Looper pedal with Boss Katana 50
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2019, 01:06:28 pm »
Majik
What results do you get if you connect your Trio+ into your K100 not using the fx loop.

At this point I haven't tried. I know for a fact that if I just connect it straight into the front as a normal looper, it's going to suffer the same issues as a looper if I use the Katana FX. I know this 100% so I don't need to try it.

As Close2u said, if you turn off the Katana FX and just use the onboard FX on the Trio+, then it will work. However, the onboard effects are relatively limited compared to those built into the Katana (although this is immediately a far better and more usable solution than a standard looper where you really can't use any FX at all). Again, I know this 100% so I don't need to try it.

What I don't know is whether the situation where the Mixer out of the Trio+ is plugged into the Aux in of the Katana will work, and whether it will give any increased flexibility regarding the use of the Katana's FX. I think I know how this will work, at least with respect to the drum and bass tracks, but I'm quite a long way short of 100% sure, so I need to try this out.

Cheers,

Keith
Guitars: PRS Singlecut S2, Fender Tele Lite Ash, G&L Legacy Tribute, Freshman Apollo 2 OCBX
Amps: Bugera G5 Head, Boss Katana 100
All sorts of other stuff.

Offline sairfingers

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Re: Looper pedal with Boss Katana 50
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2019, 01:23:38 pm »
What I don't know is whether the situation where the Mixer out of the Trio+ is plugged into the Aux in of the Katana will work, and whether it will give any increased flexibility regarding the use of the Katana's FX.
Thanks Majik. If you’ve got the time/inclination I’d be grateful for any more info you can get me.
Martin D28 Reimagined:Gibson SG Standard:Boss Katana 50:Digitech Trio+.
BC Feb 2018 - Apr 2019. May 2019 consolidating and starting IM.
Played a Framus 5/50 Calypso Archtop 1968-72. Then life got in the way. Don’t know where that guitar or the years went!

Offline Majik

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Re: Looper pedal with Boss Katana 50
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2019, 03:48:10 pm »
OK, so I wired this up and there's good news and bad news.

The good news is that the drum and bass definitely work fine, and aren't impacted by the Katana FX settings. The bad news is that any recorded loops/overdubs are.

So the bottom line is, as far as the looper section of the Trio+ is concerned, you are no better off than with any looper as regards using the Katana FX.

This was, I must admit, kind of what I expected, but I wasn't sure so thought it was best to check.

However, I still think this is a viable option for people with a K50 or other similar modelling amp without an FX loop.

Why?

Because the Trio+ has built in FX which are probably all most people need for basic practice. You basically get two different FX: A rhythm sound and a lead sound. These vary by the genre you've chosen, but the lead sound is always higher gain than the rhythm sound, and you can choose to not have either if you want to go completely clean (IME the difference between the "off" setting and the "rhythm" setting is usually fairly small).

So you won't be able to use this setup to, for instance, build lush, atmospheric soundscapes by layering effects. But if you want to lay down a 12-bar blues pattern and solo over it, it will do the trick probably far better than any other looper.

The other thing to remember about the Trio+ is that it has a headphone socket so you can use it independently of the amp.

Cheers,

Keith
Guitars: PRS Singlecut S2, Fender Tele Lite Ash, G&L Legacy Tribute, Freshman Apollo 2 OCBX
Amps: Bugera G5 Head, Boss Katana 100
All sorts of other stuff.

 

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