Author Topic: Ideas for starting to target chord tones in lead guitar  (Read 2231 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline close2u

  • Administrator
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11339
  • Good Vibes 435
  • Teesside, North East England.
Re: Ideas for starting to target chord tones in lead guitar
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2019, 04:00:50 pm »
Cool beans!

What is the reason for not including (at least) the D string in the charts?

I will come to those in the fullness of time ... or sooner! :)
I agree, the triads on D, G and B strings are wonderful too.
The idea here though is to make easy beginner steps without overloading and giving too much too learn all at once.

[edited with additions below]
I could have chosen the D, G, B strings rather than the G, B, E strings.
I suppose I  could have made it way simpler too by restricting the first step to learning just one movable triad shape to use. This could have been an A shape on D, G, B strings or a D shape on G, B, E strings.

That sort of restriction would have made the very first steps on this route even easier to navigate.
So, for those still struggling to make use of more than one triad shape at a time when you're starting, limit yourself. For a major or minor chord, play just the D-shape major or minor triad. And prepare to make big jumps as you move around the neck on the chord changes.
Then do similar with a different triad shape.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 07:19:13 am by close2u »

Offline tobyjenner

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 3374
  • Good Vibes 115
  • You're never too old to Rock'n'Roll
Re: Ideas for starting to target chord tones in lead guitar
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2019, 07:33:55 pm »
Richard

Thinks this is going to be a lot of fun. Wife's not too good this evening, so guitar's taking a back seat, as even unplugged she can hear me banging away on the electrics.

So fired up one of my PC Virtual Keyboard/Pianos apps and Youtoob.

As I am not an organist and playing via the 'puter keyboard, finding the 3rds and 5ths took a while but this immediately shouts "good note" hey it shouts "very bad note" even louder.

Spent a few minutes in each interval and then intuitively started adding climbs in 3rds and semitone walk downs. Found me some music, even if it was a rough as a lump of 4 by 4 round the back of your head.

Looking forward to pluggin in and cranking up with the phones tomorrow. Will keep it simple for starters but then try some of the non chord tones to see what fits, what doesn't and how it changes the mood. For example whenever I accidentally fall a 2nd interval over most chords, it sounds like a serial killer.

So basics first then experiment.

Cheers

Toby
 8)
Arrived here Mar 2013 Since completed BC, RUST 1 & 2, IM and MTMS Now on Blues Rhythm and Blues Lead
My Soundcloud : https://soundcloud.com/tobyjenner/
Roadcase : https://justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=39537.msg339454#msg33945

Offline close2u

  • Administrator
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11339
  • Good Vibes 435
  • Teesside, North East England.
Re: Ideas for starting to target chord tones in lead guitar
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2019, 08:35:21 pm »
@ Toby … that's right, simple to start. :)


Before spending time on these practice exercises, you can prepare a little with some warm-ups that will benefit in a specific and general sense too.

If you're going to play, for example, over a backing track in D (triads D, A, Bm, G).

a] Find and play all the root notes of the I, IV, V and vi chords on all 6 strings using the '1st-finger only technique' as taught by Justin. You will be learning to find the notes all over the neck. This will set you up to be able to more easily locate the root notes of the triads when targeting chord tones.

b] Play the D Major scale up and down using alternate picking in each of the five CAGED positions. This will give you an immediate connection between the triads you're going to play, the other D Major scale notes that link them together and an overview of the key you're playing in.

c] Play the triads through several repetitions of a short progression, as mini-chords either strummed or arpeggiated, changing the position and fingering freely at will ranging across all parts of the neck. This will help familiarise yourself with the entire triad shape as a whole before you begin targeting and playing individual notes from them.

Additional ideas.

Start each session of targeting the chord tones over your backing track of choice by going back to the very first exercise of playing the root note only over each chord when it comes along. Use this to reinforce the root note sound and positions. Also use it to practice your single note vibrato technique.


When playing short runs and phrases around the target notes, try to develop a motif for the tonic chord (of say a handful of notes including the target note root, 3rd or 5th) and repeat it, or small variations of it, on the other chords. In this way you will be starting to play lead lines that have connecting themes and ideas that are telling a story and connecting back to each other.
For example:
R  *  *  R  *  3rd
where * are other notes drawn from the Major scale not in the triads.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 07:21:06 am by close2u »

Offline close2u

  • Administrator
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11339
  • Good Vibes 435
  • Teesside, North East England.
Re: Ideas for starting to target chord tones in lead guitar
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2019, 08:43:15 pm »
Also remember that although I have given these triads as sitting within Major scale progressions starting on the I with the related Major scale notes all along the G, B and E strings, you can just as easily think of 4-chord progressions staring on the vi minor chord and view the notes from the Major (Ionian) scales notes as notes from the Minor (Aeolian) scales too.
(All the grey notes on my neck diagrams)
C Major notes = A minor notes
G Major notes = E minor notes
D Major notes = B minor notes

Offline tobyjenner

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 3374
  • Good Vibes 115
  • You're never too old to Rock'n'Roll
Re: Ideas for starting to target chord tones in lead guitar
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2019, 11:42:38 pm »
Richard

You asked for feedback/progress. Spent about 15 minutes with the Key of C progression this evening. Earlier in the wet and windy day I'd quickly knocked up some Arpeggios tracks in Guitar Pro - All 5 patterns for major and minor shapes in A, then 3 tracks containing the Arpeggios for each of the backing track chord progressions around the 7th to 10th fret, as it seemed like a comfortable place to start. Plus Justin's Arpeggio lessons focuses on M7 m7 Dom7 m7b5 and Dim7, so thought I'd create my own for M and m.

So before starting the exercise here, I picked out the arpeggios for the Key of C track ( C G Am F) without the backing track, just simple 4ths E to e to E, then just G B e B G for a few cycles to get a feel for what was to come in the backing track.

Then over the BT I tried just hitting the chord roots as the progression rolled round and then moved onto some simple picking patterns before ending in emulating some 16th note strumming patterns. All very vanilla with just the root but it shouts loud that these notes are right to play over the chords.

Then did the same with just thirds for a bit. Need to check Am as the C sounded off over the BT, sure I was on point but to my ears it sounded a little off. But the other 3rds were cool.

Next session I'll check and repeat the 3rds and then play just the 5ths. And see how that pans out. After that the next session I'll play a mix of I-III-V again just on G B e. Then I'll look to messing with other 3 string combos.

Despite being in the middle of the Blues Lead 1, I've just started looking at arpeggios as a follow up to Master The Major Scale. So the GP7 tracks I've created can not only be converted to a PDF for visual reference, they also show me the I-III-V and I-bIIII-V combination on the other 3 string clusters or across strings if I want to complicate matters. So its a visual aid for the future and I suspect, from your additional comments, the direction you are heading in, with this thread.

A good level of distortion and gain helped the exercise by increasing the sustain and allowing notes to ring out over the chords. But I also found that the 16th note RUST patterns help my picking speed, all be it on single strings'

So all in all the thread has been beneficial and looks like it will boost my lead and impro "skills".

Looking forward to the next instalment.

Cheers

Toby
 8)
Arrived here Mar 2013 Since completed BC, RUST 1 & 2, IM and MTMS Now on Blues Rhythm and Blues Lead
My Soundcloud : https://soundcloud.com/tobyjenner/
Roadcase : https://justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=39537.msg339454#msg33945

Offline batwoman

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1672
  • Good Vibes 110
Re: Ideas for starting to target chord tones in lead guitar
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2019, 04:38:33 am »
Richard ... such generosity. Thankyou for the time you've given, for your generous sharing of knowledge, for solid methodology.

Sent from my [device_name] using JustinGuitar Community mobile app


Offline close2u

  • Administrator
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11339
  • Good Vibes 435
  • Teesside, North East England.
Re: Ideas for starting to target chord tones in lead guitar
« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2019, 08:44:31 pm »
Thanks for the thanks batwoman.
It is time consuming creating all these neck diagrams and writing what I hope is a useful and clear resource to study and learn from.
:)

Offline close2u

  • Administrator
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11339
  • Good Vibes 435
  • Teesside, North East England.
Re: Ideas for starting to target chord tones in lead guitar
« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2019, 08:48:25 pm »
Small update:

I have edited post 1 and intend indexing the various key aspects / resources.

I have edited the neck diagrams to extend up to the 18th fret. The links to dropbox are the same as before.
This might seem an arbitrary cut-off given most guitars have at least 21 frets - but who plays beyond fret 15 eh! ;)

Given the patterns repeat from fret 12 I considered stopping there but thought it might be useful to see the actual repeats visually on screen (on paper if you print out).

Offline Sweed77

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1118
  • Good Vibes 65
Re: Ideas for starting to target chord tones in lead guitar
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2019, 08:59:44 pm »
This is really great stuff close.  Thank you so much for sharing  :)

Good vibes!
My soundcloud  https://soundcloud.com/sweed59

"The Thread"  the original beginners songbook thread https://justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=33339.0

Offline close2u

  • Administrator
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11339
  • Good Vibes 435
  • Teesside, North East England.
Re: Ideas for starting to target chord tones in lead guitar
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2019, 10:31:38 am »
Next steps …

Triads on the D, G and B strings.

As before I have limited the selection to just three keys and only the triads for the I, IV, V and vi chords of those keys.

[ I will post generic triad diagrams for the six most commonly used chords soon ]

As before, the first step will be to familiarise yourself with the shapes of these triads, especially where their root notes are.
So follow a similar process to the earlier suggested steps:
playing the triads, targeting the roots, targeting the 3rds, targeting the 5ths, playing simple 2-note phrases, playing longer phrases of only triad notes, playing phrases incorporating scale notes in addition to the triad notes etc etc.

Here are the diagrams.

First - just the triads on the D, G and B strings.

1] Triads for a progression using the I V vi IV chords in C [chords C G Am F]

2] Triads for a progression using the I V vi IV chords in G [chords G D Em C]

3] Triads for a progression using the I V vi IV chords in D [chords = D A Bm G]

Second, the triads on the D, G and B strings surrounded by notes from the Major scale the four chords belong to.

1] Triads for a progression using the I V vi IV chords in C with notes of the C Major Scale shown[chords C G Am F]

2] Triads for a progression using the I V vi IV chords in G with notes of the G Major Scale shown[chords G D Em C]

3] Triads for a progression using the I V vi IV chords in D with notes of the D Major Scale shown[chords = D A Bm G]

Try this for a few weeks over a variety of backing tracks in different keys.
And again - take your time developing this. It is not a race and slow, deliberate use of the techniques will help them become an easily found tool in your bag of tricks.


Offline close2u

  • Administrator
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11339
  • Good Vibes 435
  • Teesside, North East England.
Re: Ideas for starting to target chord tones in lead guitar
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2019, 01:22:25 pm »
For anybody wanting to incorporate more than just the four triads shown up to now, here are neck diagrams of six triads on the G, B and E strings for the I, ii, iii, IV, V and vi chords from a harmonised major scale.

here

A matching group of six triads on the D, G and B strings for the I, ii, iii, IV, V and vi chords from a harmonised major scale.

here


NOTE

These are in no set key so can be used generically. Therefore the neck diagram contains no fret marker dots or numbers.

Find the root of the I triad and that is your key (for Major keys) or the vi triad and that is your key (for the parallel minor key).

Offline close2u

  • Administrator
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11339
  • Good Vibes 435
  • Teesside, North East England.
Re: Ideas for starting to target chord tones in lead guitar
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2019, 08:12:03 pm »
If you're finding this all a little too daunting, if you're wanting to take it to an even more basic, simple concept to start learning initially, then maybe try these options.

1] Create a loop or find a backing track vamp of just one chord and focus on that single triad to create lead lines. Play it in different spots on the neck. Incorporate notes from the parent scale.

2] Similar to above but using two chords, the I chord and one other from the main six of the harmonised major scale.

3] When playing several triads over a backing track with more than two chords, stick to just one triad shape at a time (with a small alteration in the shape for the b3 of a minor). Be prepared to slide up and down the neck a fair bit but the pay off is that you will embed the triad shape very quickly.


Offline close2u

  • Administrator
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 11339
  • Good Vibes 435
  • Teesside, North East England.
Re: Ideas for starting to target chord tones in lead guitar
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2019, 08:30:28 pm »
Other ideas …

If you want to explore the triad shapes alongside a particular CAGED shape for a major scale then you may find the following neck diagrams useful.

Again, you could keep it simple, using and focussing on just the I chord - playing the triad over a one chord vamp and mixing it up with some general improvised lead lines and phrases from the sale itself. Then try a similar approach with a two-chord backing track, the I and the ii, or the I and the V … there are many combinations. Increase the number of chords that you have in your backing tracks. Revisit the I, V, vi IV 4-chord progressions posted earlier (and similar 4-chord backing tracks).

This contrasts with the previous ideas from learning and incorporating the triads shapes to your lead playing.
Previously the shifts were very much laterally along the neck to different fret positions.
Now the playing will all be within a 5-7 fret span and the playing will be horizontally on the fretboard.


E-Shape Major Scale Shape and 6 Triads on GBE strings

E-Shape Major Scale Shape and 6 Triads on DGB strings




D-Shape Major Scale Shape and 6 Triads on GBE strings

D-Shape Major Scale Shape and 6 Triads on DGB strings




C-Shape Major Scale Shape and 6 Triads on GBE strings

C-Shape Major Scale Shape and 6 Triads on DGB strings




A-Shape Major Scale Shape and 6 Triads on GBE strings

A-Shape Major Scale Shape and 6 Triads on DGB strings




G-Shape Major Scale Shape and 6 Triads on GBE strings

G-Shape Major Scale Shape and 6 Triads on DGB strings

Offline DavidP

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 4272
  • Good Vibes 234
  • You're always learning about guitars-Keef Richards
Re: Ideas for starting to target chord tones in lead guitar
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2019, 08:59:06 pm »
Thanks for all this Richard

Something for me to come back to down the line ...

Offline tobyjenner

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 3374
  • Good Vibes 115
  • You're never too old to Rock'n'Roll
Re: Ideas for starting to target chord tones in lead guitar
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2019, 08:33:21 am »
Richard

You've done a great job expanding from the original post and think its really going to help a lot folk in their lead playing/soloing/improvising. With all the extra material and triads you added, I think I am now going to reorganise the folder I initially started and then take the diagrams and absorb them one by one, as I continue with Blues Leads 1. I'll then come back to this, while consolidating BL1 and the associated licks, while adding this to my schedule. Looking forward to see how this helps me develop.

I think you deserve another good vibes for the extra work you've done and one for the time it will have taken you to produce the diagrams and post material.

Huge Thx

Toby
 8)         I'll be back in an hour to add GV2 !!
Arrived here Mar 2013 Since completed BC, RUST 1 & 2, IM and MTMS Now on Blues Rhythm and Blues Lead
My Soundcloud : https://soundcloud.com/tobyjenner/
Roadcase : https://justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=39537.msg339454#msg33945

 

Get The Forum As A Mobile App