Author Topic: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins  (Read 17867 times)

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Offline DavidP

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2018, 05:01:17 pm »
Thanks Stich. I can see the benefits of being able to throw in walk up and down between chords when playing songs solo. And I'd assume tbe notes that will sound best are the notes from the songs scale and key.

Offline batwoman

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #51 on: February 20, 2018, 12:01:28 am »
More ... part 9.
But it's not the end of it.
The rich learning will come if you take these ideas and modify them.
Create with them.
Take them apart and put them back together.
Really get inside the sounds and the possibilities of playing and experimenting with the C Major scale.
This is just a simple canvas with some faint outlining ready drawn - the chord progression and the targeted chord tones in red.
It is yours to add colour and detail and create your own 'work of art'.
Improvise.
Have fun.

I like this analogy very much. This thread has become a work of art in the hands of Michelangelo Close. You've created something of a Sistene Chapel  :)

Once again, I say THANKS, THANKS, THANKS.
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Offline close2u

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #52 on: February 21, 2018, 12:46:42 pm »
More ... part 10.

As previously mentioned, it is now time to take the lesson Chet teaches in C Major and do a little transposing to G Major.
Here is a diagram from a previous post showing how the chords can be numbered to match the notes of the scales.


                R,  2,  3,  4,  5,  6,  7,   R
C Major scale = C,  D,  E,  F,  G,  A,  B,   C
                C   Dm          G7  Am

                R,  2,  3,  4,  5,  6,  7,   R
G Major scale = G,  A,  B,  C,  D,  E,  F#,  G
                G   Am          D7  Em

So the chord progression transposed to the key of G would be:



    1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4   
||: G / / /  | G / / /  | Am / / / | Am / / / |

    1 2 3 4     1 2 3 4   1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4
 | D7 / / /  | D7 / / / | G / / /  | G / / / |

    1 2 3 4     1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4
 | Em / / /  | Em / / / | Am / / / | Am / / / |

    1 2 3 4     1 2 3 4   1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4
 | D7 / / /  | D7 / / / | G / / /  | G / / / :||


The next step is to know how to play the G major scale in an open position (once again taking the lead from Chet rather then thinking in terms of CAGED and beginning with the first CAGED pattern).
Every note except one can be played using open strings up to fret 3.
That 'rogue' note is an F# which has to be played at fret 4 of the D string.
It means that, strictly speaking, you can't play a 'true' G shape pattern of the G Major scale in open position ... but for all intents and purposes it is playable with this one minor modification.
The G Major scale is:
G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G

On the neck it looks like this:

e || 0 -- 2 --    -- 3 --   --  ||
B || 0 -- 1 --    -- 3 --   --  ||
G || 0 --   -- 2  --   --   --  ||
D || 0 --   -- 2  --   -- 4 --  ||
A || 0 --   -- 2  -- 3 --   --  ||
E || 0 -- 2 --    -- 3 --   --  ||

This time there are three G notes (vs the two C notes of the C Major scale) so the scale here spans two full octaves.

Chet's 'scale tune' starts with the note G over a C chord.
Transposing that would have this new scale tune start on the note D over a G chord (played at fret 3 of the B string).
To see why, compare the two scales side by side.
C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C

G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G

In the C Major scale, G is the fifth note.
In the G Major scale, D is the fifth note.

Now let's consider the four groups of nine descending notes that will start us off.
We now know the whole thing will start at the note D and descend in a limple linear pattern like this:

D C B A G F# E D C
  C B A G F# E D C B
    B A G F# E D C B A
      A G F# E D C B A G

So the new scale tune in G over the chord progression starts:



    D C B A    G F# E D    C   
    1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4     1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4
||: G / / /  | G / / /  | Am / / / | Am / / / |

    C B A G    F# E D C   B
        1 2 3 4     1 2 3 4   1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4
     | D7 / / /  | D7 / / / | C / / /  | C / / / |

    B A G F#    E D C B    A
    1 2 3 4     1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4
 | Em / / /  | Em / / / | Am / / / | Am / / / |

    A G F# E    D C B A   G
    1 2 3 4     1 2 3 4   1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4
 | D7 / / /  | D7 / / / | G / / /  | G / / / :||

As before, each time the chord changes, a targeted chord tone is played on the count of 1 (shown in red).
To confirm this, let's just look at the notes that make up each chord.

Here is a two-octave G Major scale.

R 2 3 4 5 6 7  R 2 3 4 5 6 7  R
G A B C D E F# G A B C D E F# G

The chords in the progression are all made from notes in the G Major scale:

G  = G, B,  D
Am = A, C,  E
D7 = D, F#, A, C
Em = E, G,  B

Confirmation - the first and final notes are chord tones.

Note: this chord construction again shows the stacked thirds.


I'm going to change the order of learning slightly from the C Major lessons and go straight from the descending four groups of nine descending notes to the four groups of nine ascending notes.
After that I will look at both sequences of seventeen descending / ascending notes.
Chet starts his ascending sequences on the note C, the third note of the C Major scale.
So, with reference to the G Major scale above, we would start this with the note B, fret 2 of the A string.
Like this:

B C D E F# G A B C
  A B C D E F# G A B
    G A B C  D E F# G A
      F# G A B C D E F G

With the chord progression it would be:



    B C D E    F# G A B    C   
    1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4     1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4
||: G / / /  | G / / /  | Am / / / | Am / / / |

    A B C D     E F# G A  B
    1 2 3 4     1 2 3 4   1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4
 | D7 / / /  | D7 / / / | C / / /  | C / / / |

    G A B C    D E F# G    A
    1 2 3 4     1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4
 | Em / / /  | Em / / / | Am / / / | Am / / / |

    F# G A B    C D E F#  G
    1 2 3 4     1 2 3 4   1 2 3 4    1 2 3 4
 | D7 / / /  | D7 / / / | G / / /  | G / / / :||


Now to consider the descending and ascending sequences four groups of seventeen notes.
Once again, these are played in pairs, as descending and ascending pairs of thirds, with the same first and final notes as the simpler nine note sequences.
If you have understand previous posts you should follow if I move directly to the actual sequences.

First, a descending sequence, starting on the note D, at fret 3 of the B string.

D   B
  C   A
    B   G
      A   F#
        G   E
          F#  D
            E   C
              D   B
                C
C   A
  B   G
    A   F#
      G   E
        F#  D
          E   C
            D   B
              C   A
                B
B   G
  A   F#
    G   E
      F#  D
        E   C
          D   B
            C   A
              B   G
                A
A   F#
  G   E
    F#  D
      E   C
        D   B
          C   A
            B   G
              A   F#
                G

And finally, an ascending sequence, starting on the note B at fret 2 of the A string.

B   D
  C   E
    D   F#
      E   G
        F#  A
          G   B
            A  C
              B  D
               C
A   C
  B   D
    C   E
      D  F#
        E  G
         F#  A
           G   B
             A   C
               B
G   B
  A   C
    B   D
      C   E
        D   F#
          E   G
            F#  A
              G   B
                A
F#  A
  G   B
    A   C
      B   D
        C   E
          D   F#
            E   G
              F#   A
                G



« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 03:59:23 pm by close2u »

Offline close2u

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #53 on: February 21, 2018, 01:02:07 pm »
More ... part 11.

These sequences of notes should be seen as just the starting point for your own explorations of how a scale can be used to play melody / lead lines over a chord progression.

It is not about playing fast.
It is not about playing killer licks and riffs.

It is about playing steady tempo quarter and eighth notes (at least as a start point).

It is about targeting the chord tones at the start and finish (at least as a start point).

It is about listening to the notes, to which ones sound good / better / best over which chords.

It is about developing the confidence to go from a scale pattern on the fretboard to a musical moment.

Then it is about asking yourself, and trying out answers to, a multitude of what if questions.


What note of the underlying chord is the chord tone at the start / finish? A root? A third? A fifth?
What if I change the start and finish notes to chord tones of the chord, but different chord tones?
Does it still sound good? Better?

What if I play the longer sequence of seventeen notes not in pairs of thirds, but in fourths? So that every other note is further away from the start note.
For example on a descending C Major scale sequence:
Change from
G - E - F - D - E - C - D etc
To
G - D - F - C - E - B - D etc

What if I play the longer sequence of seventeen notes not in pairs of thirds but in pairs of fifths?
Change from
G - E - F - D - E - C - D etc
To
G - C - F - B - E - A - D etc

What if I play more / fewer notes?

What if I play the same note several times consecutively rather than always changing for each next note?
Does that sound good / better / best when the chord is changing or when the chord stays the same for two bars? Does the answer depend on the note played? Does the answer depend on whether the note is a chord tone?

What if I forget all about the theory of it and just play some notes, listen for what sounds good and enjoy the creative process?

What if I just play around and see how many snippets of familiar melodies and tunes I hear?

What if I try to figure out some melodies for simple songs (nursery rhymes, children's songs, pop songs, folk songs, country songs)? You're bound to find some using a Major scale and this simple progression.

What if ... ?

What if ... ?

What if I transcend the what if questions and become a 'musician'?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 04:02:56 pm by close2u »

Offline DavidP

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2018, 01:57:36 pm »
Richard,

Just when I think you are done, you go a step further. I can't go any further.

I'm looking forward to getting home and pulling all this into a single document to serve as a study guide, plus making the backing tracks.

Thank you (seems somehow woefully inadequate,  given what you've put out here)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 06:23:11 am by DavidP »

Offline Joerfe

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2018, 02:00:05 pm »
Dammit, Richard ;)
/Jesper

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Offline DavidP

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #56 on: March 08, 2018, 04:37:18 pm »
Richard did an amazing job providing a study guide to go along with that video that Batwoman shared in the post that started this thread.  So useful to me that I have taken all the various parts out of posts and consolidated into a single PDF.  If anybody would like a copy please PM me your email and I'll send as an attachment.

Once again, Richard, many thanks.  Your effort shall not be wasted ... I have started practicing C maj scale in open position.  So will be ready to try playing over the backing track.

And many thanks for you too, Batwoman, a wonderful lesson pitched at just the right level for me to take the first steps towards lead/melody playing over rhythm.

Offline batwoman

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #57 on: March 09, 2018, 12:40:18 am »
Richard did an amazing job providing a study guide to go along with that video that Batwoman shared in the post that started this thread.  So useful to me that I have taken all the various parts out of posts and consolidated into a single PDF.  If anybody would like a copy please PM me your email and I'll send as an attachment.

Once again, Richard, many thanks.  Your effort shall not be wasted ... I have started practicing C maj scale in open position.  So will be ready to try playing over the backing track.

And many thanks for you too, Batwoman, a wonderful lesson pitched at just the right level for me to take the first steps towards lead/melody playing over rhythm.

Big thanks to both Richard and David and of course Chet. Richard the time you have taken to teach us so well is very much appreciated. Love the way you instruct, so clear, lovely humour, creative. You really do have  a talent for breaking down your dazzling knowledge of theory into bite sized and very accessible pieces.

David, thankyou for taking time to put this together for us and thankyou for my copy. You really do contribute to this community in such a generous and consistent way. I appreciate the time you've taken. You've made a mighty fine learning resource.

It's funny I almost didn't post the video, being concerned that it wasn't pc to post another teachers stuff on Justins site. I'm glad I did now.
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Offline close2u

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #58 on: March 09, 2018, 09:03:18 am »
... I have taken all the various parts out of posts and consolidated into a single PDF.  If anybody would like a copy please PM me your email and I'll send as an attachment...

Thanks David.
And what a great job you've done of compiling it all with graphics to match.

Grab a copy folks.  :)

Offline DavidP

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #59 on: March 09, 2018, 10:45:46 am »
Batwoman/Richard,

An absolute pleasure and ever so pleased to be able to give a little bit back to the Community that gives me so, so much.

Offline close2u

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #60 on: October 11, 2018, 05:53:52 pm »
just a notification that I am setting this non-sticky … it has been there a while and it is time to let it drop down as it was never meant to be a permanent sticky.

:)

Offline close2u

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2018, 10:52:37 am »
bump …
the some goodness covering :

targeting chord tones ...
starting to play melodic lines with the major scale ...
improvising on a diatonic chord progression in C ...

:)


Offline DavidP

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2018, 12:57:01 pm »
bump …
the some goodness covering :

targeting chord tones ...
starting to play melodic lines with the major scale ...
improvising on a diatonic chord progression in C ...

:)

This was an invaluable thread.  I worked through this and it helped me a lot.  Then came the lessons in A minor pentatonic in BC and G major scale in Music Theory.  All of that gave me enough to jump in and start having some fun playing over backing tracks posted in the Guitar Challenges area.  Though I confess I am not studying and practicing hard on lead play, more just joining in to have fun and using the ears to judge what seems to sound good (or not so good).

Offline close2u

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2019, 10:31:15 pm »
I have had cause to remember and re-read this thread.
I had forgotten how much content and how much goodness it contained.
So I'm giving it another bump.

:)

Offline batwoman

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #64 on: August 09, 2019, 01:06:52 am »
I have had cause to remember and re-read this thread.
I had forgotten how much content and how much goodness it contained.
So I'm giving it another bump.

:)

Thanks for the reminder Richard and thanks for the goodness,  - your lengthy, detailed notes written for us. Thanks too to David for compiling. Good timing for me, more practise with the mighty metronome.
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Offline batwoman

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #65 on: March 15, 2021, 01:20:51 am »
To quote close2u

" I have had cause to remember and re-read this thread.
   I had forgotten how much content and how much goodness it contained.
"

I'm giving it another bump for the same reasons.

David took all the gold and made it into a 21 page Word document.

I've been having no end of fun with the info.  Gordon I wonder would this help you with your improv?  It also ties in nicely with Justin's new lesson https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-lessons/major-scale-pattern-1-mm-001

If any of you want a copy of the document, send me a message with your email address.

Thankyou Richard, you are so very generous.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2021, 01:36:06 am by batwoman »
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Offline close2u

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #66 on: March 15, 2021, 10:33:49 am »
...
Thankyou Richard, you are so very generous.

Love and hugs right back at you!
:)

Offline Matt125

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #67 on: March 20, 2021, 05:20:23 am »
Close2u is using the C major scale/chords. In this case the C note is on the 5th string. Therefore you need to use a CAGED shape with the root note on 5th string.  If you use the C  CAGED shape then the shape will contain every note and chord in the Key of C.  This is the whole point of CAGED.

Here is the C shaped pattern or major scale pattern 3.




Notice that the pattern has within it all the chords of the C major scale. This makes sense since throwing the C caged pattern on the note C on the 5th string will produce the C major scale. And since you have two octaves of C major notes you will be able to make every chord in the key of C major. Watch.


Basically, this means that in a diatonic chord progression, you can make the changes over every chord using one shape in one position.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2021, 05:48:07 am by Matt125 »

Offline batwoman

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Re: Beginner guitar lesson with Chet Atkins
« Reply #68 on: March 20, 2021, 11:03:48 pm »
For those of you working through the new beginners course, I've discovered that this series of lessons that Richard and Chet have given us dovetails perfectly with Beginner lesson 9.10 Chords in a Key which is part of Module 9. 
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