Author Topic: Angel's Rejoiced  (Read 342 times)

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Offline pkboo3

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Angel's Rejoiced
« on: December 04, 2017, 10:38:55 pm »
This is an old song I've always loved.  It may be a bit out of the ordinary; originally, I think it may have been Country Bluegrass.  My favorite version was sung by Nicollette Larson, but also sang by Emmylou Harris.  No video on this one.  Maybe if I get some good tips on how to improve, I will post again with video to youTube.  I also added a second track with a few lines of harmony. 

https://soundcloud.com/user-678871890/angels-rejoiced


Offline redrhodie

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Re: Angel's Rejoiced
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2017, 01:40:05 am »
That's a great song! I've never heard it before. My only criticism is the guitar is too loud compared to the vocals. The harmony sounds great. Really pretty. It's fun recording them, isn't it? I hope someone will weigh in on panning. I'm pretty sure it needs it on the harmony parts, but I don't do any mixing myself, so I can't really help you there.

Lynn

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Offline TB-AV

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Re: Angel's Rejoiced
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2017, 03:57:19 am »
I hope someone will weigh in on panning.


It's mono. You would have to separate with note choice ( arrangement ) and Volume ( of which EQ is a variety ). Reverb and delay are other possible options.

You can't pan in mono. There is no where to go.

Agree on the Guitar vs Vocal. They are well balanced but in the reverse order. The vocal should be the guitar volume and the guitar be the vocal volume.



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Online DavidP

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Re: Angel's Rejoiced
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2017, 08:15:01 am »
Pam,

What a wonderful song ... totally loved it.  You sounded relaxed and the additional vocal tracking worked really well.

Delighted you posted this up for us.



As you know, I'm quite a novice still, so keep that in mind when considering my thoughts.

I think this worked really well as is and wouldn't necessarily pan.  So I think of it as more double-tracking the vocal to give it more depth, than adding a harmony vocal as if you had a back-up singer.

I'm not understanding TB's comment on mono/stereo and panning.  My thoughts ... I record everything in mono but render out a stereo track.  Based on that I would have thought that you could have panned the harmony out a little left or right, as well as applying other mixing moves as TB suggested to create more separation.  And then created a stereo track when rendering or exporting the final song? 

TB, please can you clarify, thanks.

On balancing the levels of vocal vs guitar.  How are you recording the guitar and vocals?  Did you record the guitar first and then all the vocals or is this two tracks, one guitar and vocals, the other the harmony vocals?

If the latter then you are pretty stuck with balance between guitar and vocals.  Given you did the harmony so well, then another option would be to add a second vocal track of the entire song, in the same key and melody.  That doubling effect would sound cool plus you could then boost the second full vocal only track up to sit above the guitar, as suggested.

Lastly, watch out when setting up to export/render the final song out the DAW.  Judging by the timing indicated in SoundCloud looks like the mp3 is much longer than the song and padded with a lot of silence.

Hope all that makes sense ...
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 09:55:41 am by DavidP »

Offline MrBumble

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Re: Angel's Rejoiced
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2017, 09:39:23 am »
I know the Emmylou Harris version of this and have always liked it.

I like this too. Others have mentioned the vocal / accompaniment balance. I don't think it's too much of a problem and doesn't detract from the enjoyment. Some of Emmylou's recordings (Red Dirt Girl in particular) have a similar balance with a subdued vocal.

Thanks for letting us hear this.

Offline pkboo3

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Re: Angel's Rejoiced
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2017, 03:36:51 pm »
Thanks Lynn. It’s so hard to balance the vocals & guitar between one mic.  My other song (Away in a Manger), I plugged the guitar into a second input. But wondering if that helps or hurts because on input one is vocals/guitar and on input two is the guitar again. I’m a total novice on all the mixing. For me, I think it’s hard to record guitar and vocals on separate tracks but I will eventually attempt that too. Hopefully each submission will show an improvement.


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Offline TB-AV

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Re: Angel's Rejoiced
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2017, 04:43:37 pm »
TB, please can you clarify, thanks.

Her track is Mono. You can't pan Mono.

sure you multitrack and mix in Stereo, 5.1, 7.1, 9.1, 11.1, Quad, whatever. You could pan in all those formats.

There is no panning in Mono and there is nothing wrong with Mono. It sure worked for the Beatles.

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Offline TB-AV

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Re: Angel's Rejoiced
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2017, 04:54:48 pm »
Thanks Lynn. It’s so hard to balance the vocals & guitar between one mic. 

Every manufacturer ( practically ) publishes a polar patter for any given mic. You need to study that to see where the mic is listening and how loud it listens in different places... and to what frequencies and various places.  that will help you place the mic at the best angle / direction / location. It will allow you to balance the instruments it is picking up.

For instance you could place a loud instrument near the void or lesser pickup area. Or rather aim the mic such that the polar pattern void covers that instrument.

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Offline DarrellW

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Re: Angel's Rejoiced
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2017, 05:53:36 pm »
Very nice Pam, I too like the Emmylou Harris version but this is nice easy listening!
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Offline pkboo3

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Re: Angel's Rejoiced
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2017, 10:22:13 pm »
Thanks David!  On this one, I recorded vocals & guitar with one mic with the mic placed in between the two. So it’s two tracks, ie vocal/guitar & harmony vocal. Yeah, I noticed the long recording of silence too late. Hopefully won’t do that again.

TB-AV. Thanks for all your input. I will have to learn much more and your comments will certainly help. Gives me insight on what to reference.


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Offline pkboo3

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Re: Angel's Rejoiced
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2017, 10:34:20 pm »
Thanks so much, MrBumble. Hope you all will take a listen to my other post (Away in a Manger) and let me know about the balance on that one. I double tracked the guitar, ie vocals/guitar on 1 and guitar on 2. Then played with different dials on both tracks.


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Offline pkboo3

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Re: Angel's Rejoiced
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2017, 10:36:41 pm »
Thanks DarrellW. Glad you liked it. I hear comments a lot that I have a country sound. That’s all good, but I also wish to learn some indie/modern folk type sound.


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Online DavidP

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Re: Angel's Rejoiced
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2017, 05:36:39 am »
Thanks David!  On this one, I recorded vocals & guitar with one mic with the mic placed in between the two. So it’s two tracks, ie vocal/guitar & harmony vocal. Yeah, I noticed the long recording of silence too late. Hopefully won’t do that again.
Pam,

Think the point re single mic for both guitar and vocal talked through.  Final thought is to experiment with position relative to guitar and mouth, over and above the comments made about the pattern of the mic in terms of where it is most sensitive. 

I have found that if I position my mic at head height and concentrate on opening wide and singing out and playing a little softer then the balance is almost as I want it  :)  More practice required 

And silence wasn't a problem, just wondered if it made the file larger or if silence adds nothing ... sounds of silence ha ha

But so pleased to see all the progress you are making with videos and recordings over and above the leaps and bounds in playing, since I started to listen to your recordings earlier in the year.

Hope you pat yourself on the back and celebrate all you have accomplished regularly ... and then we press on !!

Offline pkboo3

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Re: Angel's Rejoiced
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2017, 08:17:16 pm »
Yeah David, so much we can learn on the process. I found that having that extra track with the guitar gives me some leeway to balance the sound a little but will continue trying to learn the correct way. As you say, PRESS ON!


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Offline oldhead49

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Re: Angel's Rejoiced
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2017, 04:40:00 am »
Pam, I missed this one.  I haven't been visiting Critique much.  This is a great song, and from what I hear you're doing a really good rendition of it.  As said above, the guitar seems a bit overpowering.  This is so much fun, listening to people improve on this site.  It's hard to believe the confidence your voice is putting out.  Bluegrass or whatever, I'm really liking the sound.  I hope you post a cleaner mix of this one.

 

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