Author Topic: Beautiful Soft E Minor Impro  (Read 818 times)

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Offline TB-AV

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Re: Beautiful Soft E Minor Impro
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2017, 08:37:18 pm »
Toby, a good exercise you could do with that track now is listen back to it. You have some phrasing s set up and that's good. You can hear ideas.

Now keep that in your mind and try to convey the same message with 50% of the notes. Don't sit there and actually count them but -think- the phrase as is then -think- it as a 50% reduction to convey the same message.

EX: 1st phrase.. da da da di dah da da daaaah

Rework question... what key elements stand out in your mind... lets just say its di and daaaah

so a possible rework might be ...
slideup to dadi ....... prebend then let down to  da daaaaaah

So we got about 50% of the notes. more space opened up. Did we convey the same message... did we make the message even more interesting and easy to understand? You see what I mean.

You have several segments of phrasing in that whole track. Take them one at a time alone and rework each one.

Then listen to the whole reworked track and see how it sounds. See if it inspires perhaps a replacement of even one of the reworks. Maybe a different rhythmic figure will arise.

Volume swells, tone pot turns, use everything you can. Prebends, bends.

Anyway it's a good exercise and I think it would be well suited. It's like writing a letter. You do a lengthy first draft then clarify the high points. eliminate the unnecessary. Add attention getters.

Same thing. Reduce by 50% and enhance by 50%. Thats 100% better if you pull it off.
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Offline embishop

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Re: Beautiful Soft E Minor Impro
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2017, 01:48:56 am »
What a great analogy, writing, that really makes sense to me,

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Offline oldhead49

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Re: Beautiful Soft E Minor Impro
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2017, 04:12:39 am »
Toby, I totally understand about the overcooking.  You've definitely got a great start with this, and I look forward to hearing your future posts.

Offline Mike Sebastian P

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Re: Beautiful Soft E Minor Impro
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2017, 10:56:25 am »
Hello Toby!
A beautiful tune, and a good game, great !!

Best regards

 Mike.

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: Beautiful Soft E Minor Impro
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2017, 12:36:22 pm »
Dave/Mike - thanks for that guys.

TB - I can see what you are saying here and will try to put it into practice. The hardest thing will be to work out what I was playing and where even when listening back but that's another lesson I guess. Plan was to come back to this track and another ballady BT and try again in position - as per the CAGED/Not CAGED thread. So I'll focus on that for a few weeks or more and also apply what you've said above. Then return to this track.

Guess another good approach on the I IV I V I segment loop, would be impro record, listen, reduce or express phrases in a different way - legato, pace, let rings etc. Wash rinse repeat ala Shadow  :)

Hey late fall/winter evenings should be fun !

Cheers

Toby
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Offline TB-AV

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Re: Beautiful Soft E Minor Impro
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2017, 12:12:34 am »
The hardest thing will be to work out what I was playing and where even when listening back

I wouldn't worry too much about that. Again this is not a "remove X notes" from an existing lick.

It's more ... Listen, then emulate the idea with fewer notes.

So your lick could be 10 notes in first position. Your rework/reduction could be 3 notes up around the 10th fret. If it conveys a similar and at least equally powerful idea, then it's good.

So open position idea da dad a di dah di da dah wee de becomes 10th fret slide di dah ....... prebend adn release DI~~~~~~~~~.

So it's a totally different thing but if it still fits and works then it's good. Obviously if you are playing soft opening notes to a composition with 10 notes.... you probably won;t rework that phrase and character into a 5 note high gain, peel the paint off the walls lick... You might however do three little Vol. swells followed by the original last two notes. So again, we cut it in half, we kept it soft, we introduced something that grabs your ear but is also very subtle and easy. So that's a valid possible rework.

In fact, if you try to reduce the exact thing you did first time around you will have a hard time. the pull to do a weak or broken version of the original will be too great.

Think about what each phrase is doing. The first one is introducing the composition. the quest is to introduce it in a different manner that is equally interesting with fewer notes. NOT simply subtracting from what already exists. DIFFERENT but equal or better.... ideally better.

It's not a Fix whats wrong. Its try a more minimilist idea.
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Offline kontenda

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Re: Beautiful Soft E Minor Impro
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2017, 03:40:54 am »
That was really nice toby - very melodic. Enjoyed it, well done.
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Offline Sweed77

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Re: Beautiful Soft E Minor Impro
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2017, 07:45:58 pm »
Nice playing Toby, really enjoyed it. 
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Offline tobyjenner

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Re: Beautiful Soft E Minor Impro
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2017, 01:36:24 am »



It's not a Fix whats wrong. Its try a more minimilist idea.

Gotcha.

@kontenda/sweed thanks for listening, appreciate the comments.

Toby




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Offline LBro

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Re: Beautiful Soft E Minor Impro
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2017, 01:33:00 pm »
Well darn Toby,
This to me is a big step up from your "competition" entry. Nice tracking and mix work. Sounds really nice and your playing is spot on to this guys ears.

Now you just have to talk Close into a monthly comp in E Minor!
 ;)

Rock on,
LB
I sense a change in musical direction!

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: Beautiful Soft E Minor Impro
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2017, 01:49:03 pm »
Well darn Toby,
This to me is a big step up from your "competition" entry. Nice tracking and mix work. Sounds really nice and your playing is spot on to this guys ears.

Now you just have to talk Close into a monthly comp in E Minor!
 ;)

Rock on,
LB
Thanks Bro, you can hear its got Roman written all over that mix. Learnt some good stuff from him, that I'll take forward for future recordings. I now just need to stop over complicating tracks, with too many fx and plugins! Less is more.

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Offline LBro

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Re: Beautiful Soft E Minor Impro
« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2017, 11:02:36 pm »
I now just need to stop over complicating tracks, with too many fx and plugins! Less is more.

Nah Toby you have this all wrong... Until your Reaper DAW pukes, freezes up and dies you will never know it's limits. First thing I did to give it a little stress test was dump 50 plus plugs in it and that included 10 copies of Superior Drummer. It took it all in stride but I think I was up there. Having said that I have gone like 100 tracks and a ton of plugs and started to run out of resources. But this was a huge reason I moved to Reaper, as I was disgusted with the engine in my original DAW. Someone will have.

But your right more can had with less and experience is key!
LB
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Offline DarrellW

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Re: Beautiful Soft E Minor Impro
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2017, 08:21:01 pm »
My brain hurts with Reaper - I really wish I could hack it!!!
I've tried Garageband now I've got an iPhone that's easier but I'm not overimpressed
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Offline TB-AV

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Re: Beautiful Soft E Minor Impro
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2017, 11:54:04 pm »
Toby or anyone actually, this is an excellent video on putting variety in your solos.

One of the big things about playing variety is being able to actually hear the "other thechnique" in your head and play it. We usually get locked into a theme of repetition.

It's hard to switch gears sometimes because you feel like you will make a mistake but sometimes you just can't keep playing it safe. It's like riding a bike, you have to get it rolling for the gyroscope effect to take place then you do other things.


Watch the whole video but start by going to 4:35 and watch Tim demonstrate a 3 element solo, Melody, Arp, Blues. Then rewind and watch entire video. After you watch it try something and let's say you try that very same Melody,Arp,Blues and realize you can't really pull off the ARP part. Well there is no way in hell you would ever throw that technique in your solo if you can't even pull it off pre-planned. So that means you need to learn some ARP techniques. Keep that thought through the entire video and you will learn some ideas that you can do and some you need to practice so you can call on them at will. You hear good guitar players doing this all the time. It's not just about scales and notes, it's about how to play them in different and interesting ways also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULY5nb2GlCc&feature=youtu.be&inf_contact_key=af2f7cea4e984d0140874cc2c6fadae0984a2ba91430c9001238785baabb07b2
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Offline tobyjenner

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Re: Beautiful Soft E Minor Impro
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2017, 01:16:14 pm »
Toby or anyone actually, this is an excellent video on putting variety in your solos.

One of the big things about playing variety is being able to actually hear the "other thechnique" in your head and play it. We usually get locked into a theme of repetition.

It's hard to switch gears sometimes because you feel like you will make a mistake but sometimes you just can't keep playing it safe. It's like riding a bike, you have to get it rolling for the gyroscope effect to take place then you do other things.


Watch the whole video but start by going to 4:35 and watch Tim demonstrate a 3 element solo, Melody, Arp, Blues. Then rewind and watch entire video. After you watch it try something and let's say you try that very same Melody,Arp,Blues and realize you can't really pull off the ARP part. Well there is no way in hell you would ever throw that technique in your solo if you can't even pull it off pre-planned. So that means you need to learn some ARP techniques. Keep that thought through the entire video and you will learn some ideas that you can do and some you need to practice so you can call on them at will. You hear good guitar players doing this all the time. It's not just about scales and notes, it's about how to play them in different and interesting ways also.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULY5nb2GlCc&feature=youtu.be&inf_contact_key=af2f7cea4e984d0140874cc2c6fadae0984a2ba91430c9001238785baabb07b2

TB - thanks man I'll watch this later this evening. I'm still working on that long I IV I IV I prog at the moment and getting used to finding the scales across the neck. Messing up now and then but getting there. Quite happy to take baby steps with this, to ensure the foundations solid, so I've revamped my practice routine to focus on this ie consolidated MtMS via impro and continue the Blues Rhythm.

It will be nice to link all this up and be able to switch from chords to solo, back and forth at will but know I've got to take mt time. Was looking a YT lesson of Joe Walsh's Turn To Stone last night which I'll hang up for now as a future target, once all this starts falling into place.

Cheers

Toby
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