Author Topic: The caged system is not defined  (Read 1880 times)

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Offline loyd

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The caged system is not defined
« on: May 10, 2017, 08:47:05 am »
 I have read and re-read the caged  system in the practical music theory book but have failed to comprehend what it is. C chord shape A chord shape etc is clear but what it does and why escapes me. I realise that it means you can play chords in different shapes but I have to ask ' for what purpose? How does it help? How do you put it together?
I tried to search for answers but the search panel blocks out some of the screen so I cannot work that either.
Any clarification would be great so I can move on. Thanks

Offline close2u

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Offline tobyjenner

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Offline Matt125

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Re: The caged system is not defined
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2017, 12:40:19 pm »
Kirk Lorange explains it quite well here.





Offline loyd

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Re: The caged system is not defined
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2017, 01:06:12 pm »
As my daughter might say "amazeballs". Great responses .thanks guys. I'm starting on it now. In answer to the question as to where I am in my journey. Starting again after many false starts and applying myself properly this time. More time available so should make it stick.
I will check out all the answers but so far I'm guessing that I will still have to work it in to my practice to gain full benefit.
Thanks

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: The caged system is not defined
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2017, 02:57:04 pm »
As my daughter might say "amazeballs". Great responses .thanks guys. I'm starting on it now. In answer to the question as to where I am in my journey. Starting again after many false starts and applying myself properly this time. More time available so should make it stick.
I will check out all the answers but so far I'm guessing that I will still have to work it in to my practice to gain full benefit.
Thanks

Loyd

If you're starting again, like a few of us have, I'd strongly recommend working through Justin's Beginners and Intermediate Courses. They'll serve as a refresher, depending how far you got before but you can bet there will be stuff that other courses/teaches missed/skip or just ain't got a scooby about. MHO is all.

https://www.justinguitar.com/en/BC-000-BeginnersCourse.php

https://www.justinguitar.com/en/IM-000-IntermediateMethod.php

Toby
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Offline loyd

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Re: The caged system is not defined
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2017, 07:36:05 am »
Thanks Toby,
I will start at the intermediate and try to pick up missing links. My weird brain has always grabbed the wrong end of many sticks. Currently I am interpreting the point of caged system is to know where chord groups can be played at the same fret (or close to). Other than that it seems it is just an exercise in finding chords on the neck.
Back to my studies.....

Loyd

Offline Dr Winterbourne

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Re: The caged system is not defined
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2017, 07:40:40 am »
Loyd, yeah it is about being able to play them in any place, but notice that although the notes are the same, the timbre is different, so it can also be about the sound. This makes them great to variations  It can make your rhythm playing much more interesting - check out the other guy from the Grateful  Dead,  a for example. Also some shapes lend themselves to extensions - such as Jimi Hendrix style chords, or adding the sus 4 to a D shape etc.
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Offline squaleca

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Re: The caged system is not defined
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2017, 12:06:46 pm »
and as you get deeper into theory yea you will realized how defined it truly is and how the 3nps guys are just trying to make money and sell you their supposed new system, not that 3nps isnt usefull

Offline kennethjohnsonart

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Re: The caged system is not defined
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2017, 03:05:31 pm »
Hi Loyd, I find that one useful, very practical use for knowing "caged" chord shapes is when playing with another player.  If the other player is playing, and possibly singing, using open chords, you can play those chords farther up the neck as embellishments.  As others have mentioned, the timbre is different.  This adds nice color and depth to the sound-- instead of both guitarists playing the same chord progression in open position.  Good luck!

Offline Arplayer31

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Re: The caged system is not defined
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2017, 09:22:11 pm »
I appreciate the resource links for Caged. I had trouble understanding the concept fully as well.

Offline Majik

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Re: The caged system is not defined
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2017, 11:39:53 pm »
and as you get deeper into theory yea you will realized how defined it truly is and how the 3nps guys are just trying to make money and sell you their supposed new system, not that 3nps isnt usefull

Speaking as a guy who was taught, and prefers, 3 NPS fingering...

You should understand that 3NPS is NOT a totally different system. It's simply a different way of fingering the CAGED scales. CAGED is fundamental to how the guitar is tuned.

3 NPS scale fingering has some benefits over the scales taught by Justin but there are some major benefits to learning the CAGED-aligned scale shapes Justin teaches too: the main one being that the scales, chords, and arpeggios are all based on the same fingering patterns and, thus, easier to learn and apply. It's also easier to see how the theory works when you have the same patterns for chords, scales, and arpeggios.

Learning the scale shapes Justin teaches also does not prevent you from also using 3NPS in the future... they are the same scales just fingered slightly differently.

Anyone who claims that CAGED will somehow "trap" you inside the shapes should be avoided: they are crooks and con-men trying to  take your money.

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Offline Dr Winterbourne

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Re: The caged system is not defined
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2017, 03:00:32 pm »
I found learning the 3nps and then the modes, after having learnt the major scale via MtMS and CAGED, freed up my mind. It stopped me seeing the patterns and only the patterns, instead seeing the notes and being able to choose to navigate them from the perspective of positions if I wanted to.
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Offline TB-AV

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Re: The caged system is not defined
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2017, 04:03:02 pm »
I will check out all the answers but so far I'm guessing that I will still have to work it in to my practice to gain full benefit.
Thanks

There is a ----LOT---- more that can be done with CAGED than what you will typically hear or see taught.

Imagine for instance being able to play through a ii V I progression in the span of 3 frets using only the basic pattern 1 minor Pentatonic AND have your lead not be tied to roots of the chords AND change modes.

The reason you learn it is because it is a foundation and really advanced players can do things with those simply patterns often simply by moving a fret or two away from where they are playing. So if you meet an advanced player/teacher and they show you some of that.... using very simple patterns that every beginner should know.... then you are going say "oh damn, if I hadn't skipped that, I could be using some really cool techniques now"

It really is not an either / or situation. It has nothing to do with 3NPS, 1 note per fret, 24 notes per string or another better or different way to play the notes. It's a foundation system. the Pentatonic aspect of it is foundationally musical as well.

e --------3--6---------6--8-----------8--10-------------10--13--------------13--15------------
b -3--6---------6--8---------8--11------------11--13-------------13--15-----------------------

That is CAGED. Probably looks a little different than what you expect. Play it. Doesn't sound very musical right?  Now play any of those notes as you choose to make music. Play 3NPS if you like. If you feel like using a passing tone that is not one of those in order to make it sound the most musical, that's fine too.

Do you see how CAGED is a thing that is there to be used? Learn the thing that is there physically as it was designed to facilitate music on the guitar.

Then --use it-- any way you like. Slide into notes. Don't play them all, use chromatic connecting notes, use 3NPS fingering style, do whatever you want but --know-- those core CAGED patterns ESPECIALLY the minor Pentatonics.

It's not a "compare to" situation. 3NPS is a physical thing. It's a way to play. CAGED is a way to harness music so you can play it any way you desire. You are going to be using your fingers in all different manners. Don't get locked into one way. there is no 'this way or that way'. There is every way. You need to learn as many as you can. It's not a race. Learn all the ways you can.

Forget about 'goal oriented' accomplishment. This is a 'task oriented' situation.the task is simply that you put some time in from now on out forever to perform the task of playing and hopefully gaining the finger memory of these patterns and many more as time goes by.

It's not like a race where your goal may be to run a mile. It is a task. like using proper stride and diet. So for instance, the weekend before you run the mile, you eat a special diet and work on your stride. That is a task. On race day, you just run the best you can. If you make it the mile you completed your goal. If the diet and stride work gave you a somewhat better time then the task paid off. But the diet and stride is not a goal. Neither is learning patterns. They are tasks that you practice forever. Adding new tasks as the one's you know become more ingrained.
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