USB or mic with cheaper interface?

[TB-AV]

You can plug USB 2 into USB 3. You can't plug USB 3 into USB 2...

Well this is to say... USB is the faster. But plugging USB2 into USB3 still works... it just doesn't have that speed... although I think USB2 into USB3 can be a little faster in some situations... but not that big jump.

Plugging USB3 into USB2 would be a downgrade and might not function properly. It wouldn't function up to speed.


http://www.steinberg.net/en/support/downloads_hardware/downloads_ur22.html

[Hollywood]

Okay.

So if the UR22 is your first choice, what would be your second and third choices?  If I can get it down to 2 or 3 that you guys recommend the most I can do more research and comparisons on them all and it'll be easier to decide which of those will work best for me right now.

[TB-AV]

Well most people like the 2i2. the issue Cue mentions about Mac drives would concern me.

The hot inputs means the signal get's overloaded too easily. That is easily cured with a couple of resistors. You just have to make a little box known as a "PAD" ... it pads the signal down to a lower level.

You will always need little helper devices when recording. You make / buy them as needed and keep them at the ready...

So making the inputs useless is not correct... but I have seen people say they want to sell their 2i2 for a UR22 because it distorts too easily... they simply don't understand signal levels and how to remedy this everyday situation.

What they are saying is sort of like looking a drinking water fountain and saying the water comes out too fast or too slow to drink so the water is useless... Well in reality you simply need to adapt.

Worse case scenario it's a $10 fix. You can take an old guitar cable and pt the parts in the plug and simply label that cable. that way probably cost 10 cents.

Ideally you want the best Mic Preamps you can get. Yamaha makes good stuff in that regard. they have had lots of practice and have deep pockets.

Go to the bottom of this page... Click on the sound clips. Pick your top 3. Don't look at the answers

http://recordinghacks.com/2012/06/18/sm7b-audio-interface-shootout/

[Hollywood]

Maybe I don't know what to listen for? To me, they all sounded the same, except for number 5 sounded a little different. ALthough the writer of the article said the same thing, so I guess it's not just me.

[TB-AV]

That's the point... I actually picked Mackie and Apogee. Both known for their attention to quality. But... I like several of the others just as much and at points if you keep clicking around you can't tell one from the other.


SOoooooo... you shop "drivers", "reputation", "price", etc...

There really is no top 3. You would have to own them and live with them to really find any difference.

Now something like what I have made by RME... they have killer software that comes with it. They are also extremely precision oriented.... but you are way up the money scale then and expandability, connection to other gear, all that sort of stuff can come into play.

But almost all of these entry level devices are about the same. It's just that over time, the forums get hold of them and run tests on them, find little flaws, etc... and a couple seem to rise to the top as being "no problem" ... they can all be no problem though and they can all be fine for what your intended use.

[Majik]

But almost all of these entry level devices are about the same. It's just that over time, the forums get hold of them and run tests on them, find little flaws, etc... and a couple seem to rise to the top as being "no problem" ... they can all be no problem though and they can all be fine for what your intended use.

Yes, as you said, the biggest problem (for audio interfaces) tends to be drivers.

Most vendors are OK, and I would count most BOSS/Roland or Yamaha in this because they don't deviate too far from the standards (I have contributed code to the Linux kernel to support Roland kit, so I have a little idea what I'm talking about).

The worst for drivers, in my experience, is MOTU, and I (personally) wouldn't recommend their kit at all. It's a shame as it's pretty functional and good quality hardware. It's let down by the drivers.

In my view and experience, there's very little out there these days which is "crap". Most stuff these days it easily good enough for home recording use. It boils down to what do you want to use it for, and what situations do you want to use it in. And then it's about ease of use, stability (drivers) and getting to learn how to use it.

Cheers,

Keith

[Scooter Trash]

Hollywood:

You should be able to find out which USB ports you have by clicking the Apple menu and then choosing "System Information" or "System Profiler" and then selecting "USB" in the left column.

The Presonus interfaces that you included in your list are decent interfaces. I own an eight input Presonus interface. They usually come bundled with some nice software. They work very well, but the pots on mine are crap and when I tried to buy replacement ones from Presonus I was less than happy with the support that I got from them. Also; I think the preamps likely sound better on the Steinberg and Focusrite interfaces.

[Cue Zephyr]

I can report that the Saffire (Focusrite) preamps are very flat, which is exactly what you want on a low-price interface. My Saffire (Pro40) has very little driver issues, but I'm on Win7 (x64).

I've gathered from the same person who purchased the Scarlett (that he'll send back, surely) that the Presonus driver support isn't ideal either. He owns a Tascam FireOne which works well for him, but they're discontinued and might be slightly beyond your budget.

[TB-AV]

Here's a review on that UR22

http://www.joelcarlo.net/steinberg-ur22-usb-audio-interface-review/

[Cue Zephyr]

Apparently that UR22 has the same input gain problem as the Scarlett does.

[Scooter Trash]

Hollywod's acoustic guitar preamp has a volume fader that would reduce the gain output to the interface. If it became an issue, a pad, or DI would resolve it.

[TB-AV]

Yep, that input gain issue is not an issue. They can't design the thing for every possible situation...

Lack of gain would be worse than too much. Turn the Vol knob down and that solves the too much gain issue.

If it had not enough gain though... then you have a problem.

Here is an example of someone that totally over reacted to the "gain issue"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI8XAcGSRe4

Drivers ... as mentioned .. now that's a really tough... got to  have good drivers.

[Cue Zephyr]

The issue with the Scarlett might be specific to the higher input/output count ones, you're most likely gonna be OK with the 2i2/2i4. The guy had an 18i20 and tried to track at 96k.

It surprises me though, most people buying these interfaces will want to record at least some instrument into them.

[katja]

I didn't read the whole thread but I do record with a Scarlett 2i2 on a Mac. I've never had any drivers issues and I can record instruments straight into the Scarlett without any input gain issues. It works great.

[Hollywood]

Anyone know anything about this one?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MIXF2RS/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=1944687542&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B00IMN8U72&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1E0AJQD2CGPFBPQG8R8Q

[TB-AV]

The difference would be it has switches for Mic/Lin/Inst for each input meaning it switches it's gain structure and impedance to suit the input.

It will have of course Tascam mic pres and they too have been in the business a long time and make good stuff.

Drivers --- I don't know...... TASCAM used to have the best Sampler on the market GigaSampler... very expensive.. everybody used it... Then it got buggy and upgrades went bad and now they are not even in the game any longer.

So hardware wise... that is probably perfectly fine. The question is how are their Mac drivers.

++ALWAYS++ go the web site and download the manual and check for driver updates. Not only to see if they have a recent update but also to see how often do they update.

Again with RME as a reference... if something goes wrong with a piece of RME gear you will be speaking to large forum of users that has a highly knowledgable RME representative on the forum... probably even responding to you... So also look for TASCAM support groups.

Must haves
ITEM in consideration
Manual - read cover to cover
Driver check
Support group

These manuals are only about 10 pages. Each one will be similar but also each one might offer a little extra info. Some will publish specs in the back.


As an example... one interface might have 4 outputs. another might have 4 outputs. You think, ok, I can get sound out of 4 places at once or Two simultaneous  Stereo outs.

HOWEVER... you read the manual and one says ONLY TWO outputs can be used at once. Either / Or --- not both at same time... While the other says says sure... use all 4 at once.

Plus reading this stuff will help you understand how it works as they usually give examples... and like I say, you can read a manual in 15 minutes. So print them out and highlight notes or whatever.

Like the 2i2 has a little LED ring to show input levels. The others may have a single led... does that matter to you? Some come with better control software.. again.. maybe that's a deal for you or maybe not...

It would take you month to read the RME manual just for the software they include. Again you are looking at 10X to 30X the price... So there is no reason not to read the manuals up front.

BTW... the boss man called and said somebody missed the gig yesterday.

[Hollywood]

BTW... the boss man called and said somebody missed the gig yesterday.

That's 'cause I've spent the whole week looking at interfaces!
But seriously... oops.  I will try to do it tomorrow morning.     I need to get my mic and interface though before the sale ends Wednesday, so hopefully I'll get it before Christmas.
I was on the other side of the state all day yesterday but that doesn't make missing it any better.


Now, how would I make sure that the pickups on my Tak are not "higher output"?

[TB-AV]

That's 'cause I've spent the whole week looking at interfaces!
But seriously... oops.  I will try to do it tomorrow morning.     I need to get my mic and interface though before the sale ends Wednesday, so hopefully I'll get it before Christmas.
I was on the other side of the state all day yesterday but that doesn't make missing it any better.


Now, how would I make sure that the pickups on my Tak are not "higher output"?

You put a volt meter the cable end and play it... it will output a voltage.... Let's just say 1volt.

Hardest chord you can bang out plays out full Vol as 1 volt.

Now you look at your interface manual and read a couple things.
http://tascam.com/product/us-2x2/specifications/

Notice it says INST IN  Impedence 1M -- that's 1 Megaohm -- that is typical for instruments like guitar. so that's good.

Then it has MAX input ==== +10dBV(3.162vrms)

So they are saying 3 volts roughly make a +10dBV which is a hot signal...

So if your guitar put out 1V you would be ok and might even have to use the gain knob on the box to maybe take it up to 2v or so.

BUT .. what if your guitar output 4V -- that's 25% over the max allowed meaning it will distort. Now what?

Turn the volume down on your guitar and the voltage out will lower. Problem solved... or make a dedicated pad so you can run your guitar at full Vol if you like. Same thing either way.

Maybe--- your guitar had output specs but I doubt it. It all depends on how hard you hit the strings.

So again.... it really doesn't matter. the good thing is the Impedance is correct. The gain will probably be fine and if not it's easily cured by turning the volume down.

This again is why it's important to get the manuals and compare specs.

[Hollywood]

Okay... I think I get what you're saying.

I ask because I was looking at reviews on the Focusrite Scarlett and they're all good except for apparently it doesn't work very well with guitars with high-output pickups.  So if I were to get that one, and my guitar's output was too high, turning the volume down on the guitar itself would solve that?  ANd if you turn up the volume on the amp, does that affect it, too?

[TB-AV]

  ANd if you turn up the volume on the amp, does that affect it, too?

No... plus the guitar won;t be plugged into the amp.

Guitar >>>>>>> Interface
Vocal Mic >>>>> Interface

OR
Vocal Mic>>>>>>>>Interface
Guitar>>>>Amp>>>>Mic>>>>>Interface

OR
Vocal Mic>>>>>>>Interface
Guitar>>>Amp>>>Line Out from Amp>>>>>>Interface

OR
Vocal Mic>>>>>>>Interface
Guitar Mic>>>>>>Interface

Each scenario uses two inputs of the Interface but only the first one is Guitar direct into Interface so that's the only place a hot signal would be a concern.

If you are concerned about the 2i2 just get a different one.
the TASCAM looks fine
The Steinberg
Other

Personally I would be worried about the input Impedance more than the gain structure but to be honest I don't even know if that will matter for an active pickup acoustic guitar..... Scooter may know.

[Hollywood]

I'm not really concerned about it, I just am very aware of how much I don't know when it comes to the recording side of music, and I want to make sure I get the right thing since most of them say non-returnable.  You guys have helped a ton so far, and I sort of know what I need, but it still kind of feels to me like trying to order something off a fancy restaurant menu in Italy when I really only know basic Italian. 

Anyone got an instant translator? 

[TB-AV]

Yep, I know the feeling.

It really helps to make a chart of comparison


Model # | USB | INPUTS | OUTPUTS | SELECTOR SWITCHES | PHANTOM POWER | ETC....


Then take a look at things like Instrument Level / Mic Level / Line Input Level and Impedances.

The TASCAM breaks it all out. the 2i2 apparently treats Inst In and Line In very similar .. haven't looked...

Some specs are going to be very similar.... some can't be found... that's why I say read the manuals. It doesn't take long and you will soon say... wait a minute... the other one doesn't even mention that .... that's usually a flag.

Drivers really are king though.... you DO NOT want an interface that crashes randomly.

[Scooter Trash]

Personally I would be worried about the input Impedance more than the gain structure but to be honest I don't even know if that will matter for an active pickup acoustic guitar..... Scooter may know.

The pickup is going into the guitar's pre-amp - so the guitar's preamp handles that.. Ideally everything should be at unity, and with more resistance on the load than the source (about 10 times more for most bridged impedance) It would be ideal to run the guitar pre output at 100% and attenuate with the interface, but if the guitar's pre is too hot, turning down the guitar's volume should work fine.

For playing with your amp while tracking you could get a DI and use the instrument/amp output of the DI to feed the amp, and then use the isolated DI output to the interface. If you're going to be playing live, a DI would be a good thing to have. I like the Countryman Type 85 DIs but I've heard good things about the Radial DIs. The Whirlwind DIs work OK and are more affordable. Keep in mind that you might not want to track vocals while playing through your amp. And if you want to use any amp effects it might be best to use the amp's line output. I'm not sure what the output level is from your amp's line output.. That method might also require a DI.

Re: Tascam. I don't know anything about the newer Tascam interfaces, but had some experience with some of their older equipment (multitrack tape machines, and cassette decks) and it was prosumer quality.. just a step above average consumer home electronics quality - mostly because of the features and not the audio quality.

One thing that you might want to also consider is that if you get a less common interface, it may be more difficult to get support. Since several people here and in other recording forums are familiar with the Focusrite interfaces, they may be able to help you. In your price range I still think that the Steinberg or Focusrite interfaces would be the best value.

[TB-AV]

Yep, I too had older TASCAM stuff and it was less than stellar. However I think they upped their game in that category now days.

My biggest concern would be driver support

INST INPUT MAX INPUT LEVEL

Stn - UR22 +5.8dBV 1M
TAS - US2x2 +10dBV 1M
Foc - 2i2 +4dBu ( +1.78dBV) input impedance not listed

Scooter am I doing that dBu to dBV conversion right.. if so that input is quite a bit lower

Steinberg/Yamaha == Tough act to follow any way you look at it
TASCAM == Software and support in question
Focusrite == Input impedance and gain level issue potential

That's what I am seeing... would any of that end up being an issue? Probably not.

[Cue Zephyr]

You have to use the volume on the guitar. But since it's a preamp, I'm sure it'll be fine. Now with an electric (bass) guitar with passive pickups, this might be different (volume pots affect tone, in some more than others).

Otherwise, you get this (listen when the gain is all the way down):





About DIs, I have had good results with the LR Baggs Para DI.