Author Topic: A quartal harmony question  (Read 4776 times)

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Offline Coda

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A quartal harmony question
« on: August 11, 2014, 05:58:22 pm »
Hi, Everyone,

In a video lesson pertaining to the quartal harmony Justin demonstrates how to build subsequent chords on the notes of the C Major scale. When it comes to "F", the chord goes: f-b-e-a, Justin played it placing the root on the 8-th fret of the 5-th string, and called it "F major 7 sharp 11".  I understand it's the 'b' note that is the 'sharp 11', my question is then whether the same chord can be called 'major 7 flat 5'. Is it just a matter of a chord naming convention, or would the two chords be different in terms of, say, the order of the notes?

All the best, Everyone, and TIA for any relevant input.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 09:12:37 pm by Coda »

Offline shadowscott007

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Re: A quartal harmony question
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2014, 06:36:17 pm »
If you look at the key of F: F G A Bb C D E F, you get that B natural by sharping the 4 rather than flatting the 5 by convention.  And he was drawing from the key of C to build the chord, which again has the B and the C.  Again convention demands you don't have the same letter show up twice.

Aside from those quibbles, that spelling would be accurate.  I have seen Major 7 flat 5 as a chord you can look up... so...

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Offline TB-AV

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Re: A quartal harmony question
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2014, 09:12:11 pm »
It can't be b5

F G A Bb C D E

first note
F
next note count to 4 F G A Bb
Bb
count to 4 Bb c D E
E
count to 4 E F G A
A

F Bb E A from F G A Bb C D E but you named F B   so what step of the F scale is Bb? 4 make it sharp to B = #4

F B E A  the 5th note of the F Scale is C. So a b5 would be Cb or F Cb E A

B and Cb are enharmonic equivalents.

FMaj7b5 = F Cb E A
FMaj7#11 = F B E A

Same sound different communication.
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Offline Coda

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Re: A quartal harmony question
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2014, 09:21:16 pm »
Thank you both gents for your kind replies. "Same sound, different communications..." So it's the broader context that, by convention, determines the name of the chord even though the component notes may be the same. I never thought Justin would use an incorrect chord name, just was curious whether the name I had been more accustomed to was appropriate, hence the question.

Thank you once again,   

Offline TB-AV

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Re: A quartal harmony question
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2014, 09:32:40 pm »
the easy way to remember things is this.

What is the chords letter name .. in this case F

so the first thing you do is write out the F Major Scale

F G A Bb C D E  then number them 1 to 7. whichever note you alter or use retains it's number

Like D is the 6. So you could have b6, 6 and I suppose you could have #6 but that probably will have 7 added making it a #13. So just stick to the note and it's normal number and nothing gets mixed up.

Like F Gb A B Eb = 1 b2 3 #4 b7  notice all the numbers stayed locked to the notes.
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Offline Coda

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Re: A quartal harmony question
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2014, 10:04:08 pm »
I should probably consider myself lucky to have registered at these boards...  ;) Such clear and friendly  explanations following my first humble request... much obliged.

Offline shadowscott007

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Re: A quartal harmony question
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2014, 07:17:07 pm »
So I got curious about this chord and the two potential names, and conventions and all that, so I did some surfing.  This was all about idle curiosity.

I found this post and read through it and found it interesting, purely from the exercise of theory contained within the thread.  Posts 12 and 13 are where the meat is...

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1145039

Shadow



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Offline TB-AV

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Re: A quartal harmony question
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2014, 09:15:40 pm »
The difference in that thread and this one is that the article was coming from a performance/use thought process. This thread is a communication process. IE... how do we name chords such that they make sense and those reading our chart or listening to us will understand what we mean in a specific context.

What we chose to play over the chord is our each individual deal.

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Offline Coda

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Re: A quartal harmony question
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2014, 09:55:34 pm »
I'm glad I'm not the only one with such doubts  ;) Again - thank you for your time taken to dig deeper into the topic. I read the linked discussion with great interest even though the majority of its contents far exceeds my practical guitar skills. One can't go wrong learning some theory, nonetheless.

 

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