Author Topic: SB-303 • La Grange - ZZ Top  (Read 10987 times)

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Offline Indigo

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SB-303 • La Grange - ZZ Top
« on: July 25, 2013, 02:14:52 pm »

Offline Jotapi

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Re: SB-303 • La Grange - ZZ Top
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2013, 01:06:02 am »
Hello,

Please, I would like to ask how the riff 3 (bridge) with the triplets (notes G, A, F#, F) and the last bar (notes A, C, C#) was built? Is it based on a scale shape ?

Yours sincerely,

Jean

Offline sophiehiker

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Re: SB-303 • La Grange - ZZ Top
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2013, 12:55:55 pm »
No, not a scale shape.  It's a chromatic run-down typical of a blues turn around.  HTH    :)
...where the deer and the antelope play.  Well, they're not really playing.  They're fleeing in terror.

Offline Jotapi

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Re: SB-303 • La Grange - ZZ Top
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2013, 01:20:49 pm »
Hi,
Thanks a lot!
Is it possible that a chord was used to build this run-down ? If yes, what chord?
For example, I have seen turn arounds made from D7 chord.

Offline sophiehiker

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Re: SB-303 • La Grange - ZZ Top
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2013, 01:59:35 pm »
Not to my knowledge.  It looks like it was made from the A min pentatonic scale, with some chromatic notes, to me.

My (limited) understanding of turnarounds is that they consist of a some type of chromatic scale run with the aim of returning to the V chord (or note) of the key.  In this case, Billy's returning to the key of A after playing the bridge in the key of C.  Hence, the focus on the A note in this turnaround.

If you have a turnaround that ends on a D7 chord, I imagine that the key is G.  And I also imagine that it uses a D7 shape in some sort of chromatic run prior to arriving at the D7 chord.  Yes?

Or, D7 could be I chord.  That is, it's common to use the V IV I V chord sequence as the last four bars in a 12 bar blues.  There could be a run up to a D7 in the 11th bar to end on a A in the 12th bar.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 03:23:56 pm by sophiehiker »
...where the deer and the antelope play.  Well, they're not really playing.  They're fleeing in terror.

Offline Jotapi

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Re: SB-303 • La Grange - ZZ Top
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2013, 04:23:44 pm »
Hi,
Thanks a lot for your very helpful comments!
Please, do you know if it exists a website that explains in details all the theory about these concepts?


« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 08:42:27 pm by Jotapi »

Offline sophiehiker

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Re: SB-303 • La Grange - ZZ Top
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2013, 08:27:49 pm »
Sorry, don't know of any.   :(   
...where the deer and the antelope play.  Well, they're not really playing.  They're fleeing in terror.

Offline Jotapi

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Re: SB-303 • La Grange - ZZ Top
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2013, 09:28:17 pm »
I just saw that details about turnarounds exist in Justin's Blues section.

Offline TB-AV

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Re: SB-303 • La Grange - ZZ Top
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2013, 02:47:43 am »
That lick you are talking about is being played out of the G SHAPE.

The A note is being held as the pedal tone.
The G note is the b7 so there you outline an A7 chord
The F# note is a chromatic down and also the 6th step of the A scale.. the relative minor
The F note is another chromatic move and creates enough tension to want to resolve to something...

Now if you went down one more fret you would be at the 5 or E note but he goes to open A and then that little riff is 1 b3 3 1.   So it's all out of the A scale or A blues scale. IOW it's the notes you play all the time in blues and most of it is happening in the G SHAPE of CAGED.

That last little bit instead oof walking down from G F# F E is simply a little tricky way of handling the E part. sort of like a little disguise.

You have to keep in mind that when people play these turn arounds and runs they have a purpose to keep rhythm. So not only do they need to be set up musically by scale and chord but also by rhythm.

IOW, the notes sound but the rhythm really makes the song work.

Another interest8ing thing that happens is that the intervals outline more than just a walk down. Like if you kept walking down to E, when combined with A note = E7. Again how you play it rhythmically makes it more or less important in the overall scheme.
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Offline Jotapi

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Re: SB-303 • La Grange - ZZ Top
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2013, 01:39:03 pm »
Thanks a lot!

Offline TB-AV

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Re: SB-303 • La Grange - ZZ Top
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2013, 05:39:05 pm »
Two other areas of study you may wish to investigate.....

The diminished scale is utilized in turnarounds a lot. Especially over the V chord. The diminished scale is basically half step followed by whole step then repeat, so it incorporates those 1/2 step chromatic tones by default. When you start throwing all that stuff together it becomes a matter of seeing that nearly all the notes are fair game but it's still very hard to make sound good or interesting much less memorable..... and that's where the rhythm aspect comes in. If you set those notes to a catchy rhythm, it almost doesn't matter what you play provided you actually hit a couple important notes at the proper time.

Bluegrass players are masters at the rhythm run/fill. IOW, as they change chords and to make the song move and create an audible guide they use runs or fills. Probably where Rock and Blues picked it up to be honest.

But if you break things down you will find that let's say you play 20 notes. Only 4 of those really need to be specific notes at a specific time played in a specific style for a specific duration. The other 16 you can probably play just about anyway you like. Your job is finding those important 4 notes and nailing them every time.

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Offline sairfingers

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Re: SB-303 • La Grange - ZZ Top
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2019, 03:42:41 pm »
New to electric and trying do the intro to la grange following the rock songbook book and Justin’s video. He’s using a pick for bass and fingers for strings 3,4. When I try this the sound with pick is hard and the fingered strings are soft. So it doesn’t sound right. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks guys.
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Offline jono

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Re: SB-303 • La Grange - ZZ Top
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2019, 03:51:42 pm »
I tend to catch the strings with my fingernails, more of a pluck, the song takes a lot of practice before the strumming sounds right, it is not an easy song to do.

Offline stitch101

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Re: SB-303 • La Grange - ZZ Top
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2019, 05:50:17 pm »
Like everthing else Hybrid picking is a skill that needs lots of practice.
It takes both pick and finger control.

Offline jono

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Re: SB-303 • La Grange - ZZ Top
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2019, 06:29:33 pm »
It's really quite fast too, I don't think it should be in the beginners section.

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Offline sairfingers

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Re: SB-303 • La Grange - ZZ Top
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2019, 02:18:20 pm »
Like everthing else Hybrid picking is a skill that needs lots of practice.
It takes both pick and finger control.
Thanks for that. I suspected as much - was hoping for an easy fix!

It's really quite fast too, I don't think it should be in the beginners section.
Agreed!
Studying Intermediate Course, Folk Fingerstyle and Blues modules.
Pickin’ an’ lickin’.....😎.
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