Author Topic: Help required..(melody & chords)  (Read 14088 times)

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Offline diademgrove

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Help required..(melody & chords)
« on: June 24, 2013, 08:52:27 am »
Yesterday in a mad rush I wrote some lyrics. I haven't time to think about working out a melody/chord structure and thought it would be great if somebody took them away and finished the job. There are no rules. Just take the words away, change them if you like, add new ones and put them to music. Please let me know if you start work on them and make sure you post the results.

The lyrics have no title. I did think about "Lyrics with no words", but it doesn't seem appropriate.

Anyway, enough rambling, here are the words:

I hear the red sky in the rain
I feel the rainbow in the wind
I see the thunder in the trees
My true love rides the breeze

I hear the paint on the wall
I feel the air of centuries past
I see the east wind on my face
My true love sleeps in grace

The man in the suit
Says he's tough
Little John in reverse
Slips money from her purse
Yes, that's right
Oh, so tough

I hear the moan in the breeze
I feel the heat in the rain
I see his head in her hand
Yes, she's my one true love..............
my one true love

I know, they're pretty weird. They mean something to me, but please don't ask what, I'd rather see what you make of them.

Good luck,

diadem

« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 09:28:40 pm by LievenDV »

Offline frances

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2013, 05:20:47 am »
Hi Diadem,
You seem like someone willing to put up with me being weird so.... i think i'll fake an acoustic and do something pretty  ???
but I think i may have something for you. It may need to be lengthened, and i could really go for an alternate pattern on the second part... sort of a rough draft... but it's an idea. 
81 bpm,
the chord progression is dm A# A,
repeat 4 times, gm,
dm....
gm,F,gm,Bb,A
dm,Eb,F,dm,
dm,Eb,F,gm.

sorry everybody for the static and stuff, i just got reaper and don't know how to use it
(new stuff!yeah! ;D)
https://soundcloud.com/user4528050/cynestasia

anybody got vocals on this?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2013, 06:28:05 pm by frances »
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Offline diademgrove

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2013, 05:57:14 pm »
Hi Frances,

I'm really pleased you've taken the time to add something to my lyrics. I like the feel of the music as well. You may be amazed but after finishing Samba I started messing about with some chords for the first line and a sort of melody line. I ended up with one bar each of Dm E Gm7 and Am, not a million miles away from your progression. The words over the Dm, E and Am sort of fit but I can't get the jump from "the" to "red sky" to sound ok. "The" comes at the end of E and "red sky" during Gm.

Unfortunately I like the way the chords sound. I haven't really thought about the second line or the refrain, my true love etc. It may be easier using A# and A.

I'll put a short version up on Saturday and see what you think. If I'm brave I'll add my vocal. I'll also put up a version with your chord structure to see what you think.

It would be great if we our ideas to work together. 

As to the bridge about the man in the suit and the last verse I was thinking of a change to a major scale. In between a mass of noise, think A Day in the Life by the Beatles, or bits of Revolution No 9.

Yes, you're right, I'm weird, how do you fancy trying to pull off a joint song?

Thanks again, it's appreciated,

diadem

Offline frances

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2013, 09:29:15 pm »
Cool,  I'll talk to you then. :D
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Offline diademgrove

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2013, 10:54:47 pm »
Cool,  I'll talk to you then. :D

I'll post something this weekend. I had a short run through and feel a bar of 2/4 at the end of the line works slightly better. I'd end up with a bar of 4/4 and a bar of 2/4 on the Am. Let me know if this causes a problem.

Fingers crossed it'll work.


Offline frances

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2013, 02:03:30 am »



I'll post something this weekend. I had a short run through and feel a bar of 2/4 at the end of the line works slightly better. I'd end up with a bar of 4/4 and a bar of 2/4 on the Am. Let me know if this causes a problem.

Fingers crossed it'll work.




I'm not really sure what you mean. I think I'll just have to hear it. 
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Offline diademgrove

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2013, 07:30:06 am »



I'll post something this weekend. I had a short run through and feel a bar of 2/4 at the end of the line works slightly better. I'd end up with a bar of 4/4 and a bar of 2/4 on the Am. Let me know if this causes a problem.

Fingers crossed it'll work.




I'm not really sure what you mean. I think I'll just have to hear it.

Don't worry, I sometimes have trouble explaining myself. The count of the beats are in the brackets. It should be clearer when you hear the demo.

Dm (1234) E (1234) Gm (1234) Am (1234)(12) back to Dm etc.

I had a mess with a melody on Cubase as well. I may put that up as well.


Offline diademgrove

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2013, 07:56:41 pm »
Frances,

I forgot to add, we now have a title, I like Cynestastia.

diadem

Offline diademgrove

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2013, 09:52:55 pm »
Well Frances, the weather was nice and I managed to find time to put my ideas onto tape, well, into the computer.

The chords are Dm A# A Gm (1 bar 4/4, I bar 2/4, basically 6 beats) Dm E Gm7 Am (1 bar 4/4, I bar 2/4) x 2 At the end of the verse I've put C Am C Am (1 bar each) and repeated the first verse.

I've added your guitar for an introduction and over the first line of the song to see how it sounds, I like it. I've panned my guitar and your guitar so its easier to hear. I see the electric guitar over all the chords with maybe something different over the C Am interlude.

At the end of the last Am I envisage chaos ending on a C7 chord and into the bridge in F and the last verse in D major. Of course, this is open for discussion.

Hope you think we have something, if you do I'll record a better version of the acoustic guitar and make it available for download. I don't hear any drums or bass in the first two verses, do you?

diadem

https://soundcloud.com/diademgrove/cynestasia-demo-1/s-gRXlN

Offline diademgrove

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2013, 03:34:01 pm »
Hi Frances,

I have recorded a draft structure for the full song. I have put everything in the comments as to chords, timing etc. The weird break could be long or shorter.

If you don't think the last sections work we can alter them. I see them being mostly electric guitar with bass and drums.

diadem

https://soundcloud.com/diademgrove/cynestasia-demo-2/s-YmxU5


Offline frances

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2013, 05:34:03 pm »
yay, thanks.

you were thinking the arpeggiated part over the chords, yes? I've got a little lick that can go on the Bb. a similar sound to the intro may take a few days to train in.  i am so busting out the electric violin today(justfor fun, don't go expecting stuff,i play like twice a year,) will have to see how the lyrics go with the music...and yeah i think if there were drums in the first half they'd have to be quite restrained. this is a lot of stuff to think about.... start with fitting the lyrics to the music. ok, given one verse per repetition of the chord progression with the c and am part not having the lryics on it... i think we should change it up for the story part, then bridge, then last verse. or maybe a rhythm variation could do it, i'm a bit wary of depending on a lot of decoration to keep things interesting. 


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Offline PattheBunny

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2013, 06:18:16 pm »
Okay guys I don't know alot but if I were to approach this the first thing I'd like to know is what key it's in.   Because I can't hear a tonal center.   

Pat
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Offline diademgrove

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2013, 06:25:52 pm »
Okay guys I don't know alot but if I were to approach this the first thing I'd like to know is what key it's in.   Because I can't hear a tonal center.   

Pat

Hi Pat,

I would say the key is Dm for the acoustic first part, D major for the bridge and finally F for the last verse, with a few passing chords for good measure. The shift from D to F sounds like a step and half move up, rather than a shift down. Unfortunately I can't play barre chords that high up the neck on my acoustic.

Hope this helps.

diadem

Offline diademgrove

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2013, 06:52:40 pm »
yay, thanks.

you were thinking the arpeggiated part over the chords, yes? I've got a little lick that can go on the Bb. a similar sound to the intro may take a few days to train in.  i am so busting out the electric violin today(justfor fun, don't go expecting stuff,i play like twice a year,) will have to see how the lyrics go with the music...and yeah i think if there were drums in the first half they'd have to be quite restrained. this is a lot of stuff to think about.... start with fitting the lyrics to the music. ok, given one verse per repetition of the chord progression with the c and am part not having the lryics on it... i think we should change it up for the story part, then bridge, then last verse. or maybe a rhythm variation could do it, i'm a bit wary of depending on a lot of decoration to keep things interesting.

Hi Frances,

I was thinking of the arpeggio part lasting until the wild noisy break, with my guitar acting as support. If you're not sure about the C Am progression we can take it out. Apart from making it easier for me to play I'm not sure what it adds, if anything. The two beat bar could act as the turnaround as in the verse.

As I explained to Pat I want to see the F played as an A barre chord shape on electric rather than an F shape as my acoustic version. This way the music fits in with the way the lyrics go in my head. The reason I don't want to explain what the lyrics mean is simple. The more the song reflects my vision the less of a collaboration it feels to me. Your chord progression is great and if you have other ideas please keep putting them forward.

I don't hear very much decoration at all, unless you mean the key modulation.

I hope the electric violin can go in the wild instrumental part as well, even if it doesn't come out very often.

The problem for me is my singing. Whilst I'm getting better and it'll sound reasonable over the chords it'll rely on good luck. There will be no worked out idea of what the notes are, or what alternatives are available. Just getting them to sound ok against the chord is a major achievement.

I agree no drums. I do hear martial drums for the bridge and last verse to reflect the change in tempo.

I hope I'm not putting you off. I'm getting quite excited about where the song could end up.

diadem

 

Offline diademgrove

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2013, 08:27:43 pm »
I have thought about the progression a bit more. I may be over elaborating and making the song more complicated than it need be. Tomorrow I will put three more demo versions up.

One will be in Dm throughout. the other will modulate into D for the last verse. One of the D versions will include Bb, I hate hard work go to waste. But the chord change from D to Bb sounds really familiar, which may be a problem. I don't really want to steal somebody else's work.

diadem

Offline frances

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2013, 09:19:13 pm »
oh, by bridge i meant the wild noisy part, i'm fine with the c ,am part. just saying the first prog. could start to drag around the third verse. we'll have to see if it does before trying fix it.... oh you were posting when i was posting....ehh..well when in doubt there's always 1-4-5 :).... in other words, thinking like that can be a real minefield  ;D
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 09:49:45 pm by frances »
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Offline diademgrove

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2013, 10:43:20 pm »
oh, by bridge i meant the wild noisy part, i'm fine with the c ,am part. just saying the first prog. could start to drag around the third verse. we'll have to see if it does before trying fix it.... oh you were posting when i was posting....ehh..well when in doubt there's always 1-4-5 :).... in other words, thinking like that can be a real minefield  ;D

Hi Frances,

I see this thread as our rehearsal room. It may be virtual but who cares if it works. If we were in the same room we'd try different arrangements. All I'll be doing tomorrow is trying different endings. 10 minutes work in a real band room, a bit longer in the virtual world.

It may help if I set out where I think the lyrics go.

Verses 1 and 2 go over the acoustic guitar and your arpeggio. The wild bit is the instrumental break or solo, the bridge (Man in the Suit) comes after the solo and the third verse ends it.

The first two verses may be slower than you thought, which is why I increased the tempo to 109 for the bridge and final verse. I see the wild interlude as free time. By the time we get to the third verse the listener would have been turned upside down by the interlude and the increased pace. They will be so impressed the last thing on their mind will be the slow tempo of the first two verses.

I should be recording at about 12:00 noon UK time and have the demos up late afternoon. If you've worked out some musical ideas for the C Am bit let me know before I start and I'll leave them in. If not I'll take them out and we can put them back in later if we think its a mistake.

I see our rehearsal room as a very democratic place all ideas are valid, even 1-4-5. Although its going to be hard if we have to consider it, after your arpeggio and chord sequence.

I think if we hear 4 or 5 different structures the right one is going to stand out. It may even be the one already up.

We'll see what tomorrow brings. I've a feeling our song will turn out more than ok.

diadem

Offline frances

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2013, 05:18:58 am »
I see our rehearsal room as a very democratic place all ideas are valid


Well, ok. 

i couldn't get the arpeggios to work today. here's noise.  ;)

(is a bwaahaha apropriate here?)
https://soundcloud.com/user4528050/cynestasia-w-violin-noise
I spend a lot of time in bed eating crackers, this tells you much about both my character and learning ability.

Offline diademgrove

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2013, 08:26:39 am »
I see our rehearsal room as a very democratic place all ideas are valid


Well, ok. 

i couldn't get the arpeggios to work today. here's noise.  ;)

(is a bwaahaha apropriate here?)
https://soundcloud.com/user4528050/cynestasia-w-violin-noise

Forgive me, but what does bwaahaha mean? I haven't come across the term before, maybe a sign of my age.

I love the noise. Not sure it should go over the whole track though. (Slight digression, I hear another collaboration in my head based on your violin playing which could go over the whole track. Have a listen   http://youtu.be/YkNZCA5HzTQ a classic someone introduced me to recently. 13 minutes of aural bliss. Of course that's only if you want to do another after this.)

The arpeggio and acoustic guitar seem to blend well together and suit the song. I like it and would like to see if we can complete it. I presume the problem is my additional chords.

Could you put just the electric violin wav track up on soundcloud so I can download it and have a play with it in Cubase. I think we have the made the first step to completing the solo. I must admit I was a bit worried your idea of noise wouldn't fit with mine.

I'll record and put up the different endings after 12 noon.

I did mean it when I said all ideas are valid. As Justin says if it sounds good, it is good. Of course what sounds good is all down to personal taste. If our tastes coincide what we produce will be good. We may not get many Eagles fans liking it, but, what the hell, life is full of small disappointments.

diadem

Offline diademgrove

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2013, 03:04:55 pm »
I've removed the C to Am interlude in the first two verses. I didn't really miss them.

The first new demo remains in Dm ( chords are Dm A# A Gm (x2) repeated once for the bridge and Dm E Gm7 Am repeated a number of times for the last verse. Not really all that keen personally.

The second demo moves from Dm to D. The bridge is the same chord sequence as the Dm demo followed by a repeating pattern of D Bb G Asus2. I like this a lot better. I would say its between this one and the more complicated first demo.

Please ignore the gap for the instrumental break, we can make it as long or short as we want.

Time to make our minds up I think. If we pick which of the demos works best I'll sart getting the acoustic guitar part recorded properly.

I think we now have the first two verses sorted. We just need to decide on C to Am and try and put the arpeggio parts together.

We have started the instrumental breakdown. The violin to me is the lead instrument. I'm sure I can do some weird things with it once I get the raw track into Cubase. Not sure we need anything else unless somebody wants to add anything. I'll post the progress up as and when.

The bridge and final verse needs bass, drums and electric guitar.

Finally we need a melody and singer. If it would help someone (Pat?) I'll provide a spoken work version of where I think the lyrics fit in relation to the beats later this week. Unfortunately hot weather and me don't mix.

diadem

https://soundcloud.com/diademgrove/cynestasia-dm-demo/s-4kygJ

https://soundcloud.com/diademgrove/cynestasia-dm-to-d-demo/s-NTP6X


Offline frances

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2013, 04:15:31 pm »
  Hey, i've uploaded the two stems of the violin part, i can upload them sans effects if you want (cringes at people actually hearing what i'm playing)
 
 you"re right about c am thing, it's better without it. i like the second one best. the demo from yesterday was good but this one keeps things moving better and is easier to understand.  so i guess let's  do that?
 
...oh, good morning mr. vega..

  i'l give the arpeggios another whirl today, maybe i will go looking for some picking patterns to steal or something.






« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 05:26:11 pm by frances »
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Offline diademgrove

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2013, 04:43:17 pm »
Hi Frances,

I liked the original pattern if that's possible. The violin parts will be fine with the effects. I'm just going to mess them up anyway. I hope you don't mind.

Its time for my tea (evening meal). I'll post my first draft of the instrumental later tonight to see if you like it. Dm to D it is. I worked out what D to Bb sounds like. I'll not post it until we've finished it may affect how the melody goes.

Good luck with the arpeggios.

diadem

Offline diademgrove

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2013, 06:51:09 pm »
Hi Frances,

first rough draft of the wild instrumental piece. I add some weird D notes from Cubase. What do you think?

diadem

https://soundcloud.com/diademgrove/cynestasia-guide-mix-1/s-xLLxA

Offline frances

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #23 on: July 08, 2013, 05:21:30 am »
wicked awesome, how'd you do that? we need to get an electric guitar on there to smooth things over, as it is it sounds kind of like a comedic low fantasy where a person from the regular universe gets in a different dimension and something really messed up happens and the person native to the other dimension is all like, "oh, don't worry about it,that happens all the time."


  I don't think the arpeggios are going to work out. it sounds good with the chords not being in key but with the notes picked singly it's awkward to get from one chord to the other. i'm sure there are plenty of tricks to get around this but i don't know them. if the A were an am, E a em7b5, and the am an A, things would be easier...maybe.
  i have to clear my head and look at other options....don't they teach good judgement on the internet somewheres? 
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Offline diademgrove

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Re: Help required.....
« Reply #24 on: July 08, 2013, 07:52:52 am »
Hi Frances,

I'm glad you like it. I'll let you know how I did it next weekend. It was a lot easier to do than explain. I'm a mad cook. I just keeping put spices into the pot until I like the taste, followed by, another spice won't do no harm. Cubase is good as it allows you to withdraw the spice if it spoils the soup.

I agree about adding the electric guitar. Do you fancy a go?

I think what your saying is that the transition to the violin part is too abrupt. Which is what I thought last night. It needs something to connect this dimension to the next and keep us on the ground. A drum pattern from the last two bars of the verse may work. I'll have a play and see what it sounds like.

Shame about the arpeggio. I don't suppose you have a piano or keyboard? Failing that we may be able to devise some wonderful alternative tuning for the guitar. In the meantime I'll see what an em7b5 sounds like (if I can play it).

Good musical judgement is in your ears. You don't need the internet, just the confidence to let your ears say this isn't working, what can we do to make it work? In my case that is limited by my playing ability, but that is getting better, but there are many roads to Rome. I usually sit down and do something else, like last night when I found out that the move to the electric violin part didn't work. Then the idea of the drums came to me.

I think the transition from the violin to the bridge works.

Time for breakfast.

We are getting closer to the final major decisions, the electric rhythm guitar, bass, drums and last but not least the vocal.
 


 

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