Author Topic: split from Cure guitar thread / pickups  (Read 2259 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Dan Graves

  • All Time Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 6236
  • Good Vibes 172
  • Like Tuesday; Gone, with the Wind.
split from Cure guitar thread / pickups
« on: September 04, 2012, 06:40:33 pm »
I'm no expert either, but I think a lot of humbuckers have a hotter output which will more readily distort the input of an amp

That's actually a quite common misconception.
The amount of added output needed to really push a decent tube amp into distortion lies far beyond what one can do with passive pickups, and even with any production model active pickup (unles a booster circuit is used).
The higher pickup output will affect tonality, compression and overal tightness, but it won't do all too much distortion wise.

Dan..... are you smoking crack again?

I think i should have worded that differently.
What i meant was, as i mentioned in a later post, it doesn't do as much for pushing the amp as some would have you believe.
Even with an HB measuring 23k it doesn't push an amp all that much harder than lower output pickups.
It changes the tonality, sure, but it's not like you all of a sudden have tons more gain on tap.

Offline TB-AV

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12698
  • Good Vibes 331
Re: split from Cure guitar thread / pickups
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2012, 07:09:41 pm »
....and..... because of that, they will not push an amp into compression which usually means it has already been pushed so far that it's power supply can no longer keep up.

Regular pickup - Amp on 4
Hotter pickup might sound like amp is on 5 or so.

Amp maxed out.... a low output pickup might not starve it's power supply. Hi output pickup maybe it will.

Gone

Offline Dan Graves

  • All Time Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 6236
  • Good Vibes 172
  • Like Tuesday; Gone, with the Wind.
Re: split from Cure guitar thread / pickups
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2012, 10:33:50 pm »
And how many of the Justin guitar users will ever max out the amp, on average ?
I mean i do at times, i bet marcus does, maybe wishbone if he's in a 'bugger the neighbors, let's crank this shizzle' kind of mood, and i suppose you might at times crank up your amp, but beyond that ?
For the average user, the difference often won't matter all that much.
Tonality of the pickups would be more important, but in the end the amp makes the most difference.

Offline TB-AV

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12698
  • Good Vibes 331
Re: split from Cure guitar thread / pickups
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2012, 11:29:21 pm »
Exactly, but you stated it would.

Quote
The higher pickup output will affect tonality, compression and overal tightness, but it won't do all too much distortion wise.

The reality is, the pickups won't impact compression any more than they will distortion.

They may indeed have various resonant peaks though, and thus impact tonality.

--- I'll let you slide on the "overall tightness"  ::)  ...................................................this time.



Gone

Offline Dan Graves

  • All Time Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 6236
  • Good Vibes 172
  • Like Tuesday; Gone, with the Wind.
Re: split from Cure guitar thread / pickups
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2012, 12:21:55 am »
Hmm, then how do you explain the sound differences between these pickups, as far as perceived compression increases go ?
(this is where i really hate being unable to afford the mentioned recording gear, as this will probably be a fruitless discussion without examples).
Is that just the character of the pickups then, or is it a trick on the ears/mind ? (not being glib here, i'm honestly looking to understand how that works).

Offline TB-AV

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12698
  • Good Vibes 331
Re: split from Cure guitar thread / pickups
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2012, 01:07:16 am »
You tell me, .... compression is gain reduction. Guitar amps don't have make up gain, so any compression will be strict compression or a lowering of gain....

There is also a lot that goes on with transformer interaction and perhaps the various tonal fingerprints of the pickups react differently with the transformers.

You could be confusing compression for something else.
Gone

Offline Dan Graves

  • All Time Legend
  • *******
  • Posts: 6236
  • Good Vibes 172
  • Like Tuesday; Gone, with the Wind.
Re: split from Cure guitar thread / pickups
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2012, 01:21:38 am »
That might be the case  :-[

Offline Scooter Trash

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 3033
  • Good Vibes 83
Re: split from Cure guitar thread / pickups
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2012, 09:27:20 am »

There is also a lot that goes on with transformer interaction and perhaps the various tonal fingerprints of the pickups react differently with the transformers.


Never really thought about it until now, but if you changed the winding ratio in a humbucking pickup it could be used as a transformer.. Not really relevant, but interesting to ponder..

Dan, I found a good article by PeaVey that might help shed some light on the subject. If you're not interested in the entire article, skip the the part titled; "Total Tonality" and pay close attention to the part about inductors and capacitors and how they relate to guitar pickups.
http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/hartley/chapter_5.pdf
If you'd like more in-depth information, some some additional research on "passive crossovers" "guitar pickup magnets" and "audio transformer core saturation" might yield the answers that you seek.

Regarding the perceived compression; Fletcher Munson's equal loudnes level curves and the second paragraph of this article may explain it: http://www.humbuckermusic.com/comex.html
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 09:59:55 am by Scooter Trash »
I dream of a better tomorrow where chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.

Offline TB-AV

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12698
  • Good Vibes 331
Re: split from Cure guitar thread / pickups
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2012, 01:35:35 pm »

Never really thought about it until now, but if you changed the winding ratio in a humbucking pickup it could be used as a transformer.. Not really relevant, but interesting to ponder..

Then it wouldn't be a humbucker. The two coils being identical are what give it the hum cancellation. Also a transformers coils are not connected.

Dan, I found a good article by PeaVey that might help shed some light on the subject. If you're not interested in the entire article, skip the the part titled; "Total Tonality" and pay close attention to the part about inductors and capacitors and how they relate to guitar pickups.
http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/hartley/chapter_5.pdf
If you'd like more in-depth information, some some additional research on "passive crossovers" "guitar pickup magnets" and "audio transformer core saturation" might yield the answers that you seek.

Regarding the perceived compression; Fletcher Munson's equal loudnes level curves and the second paragraph of this article may explain it: http://www.humbuckermusic.com/comex.html

Yep, I think it's perception and a shifting of how loud certain frequencies are. You would need a scope and spectrum to really see what's going on. If it were compression though, and all things being equal, the pickups that seem to get fatter would actually sound smaller ( from being compressed with no make up gain ).
Gone

Offline TB-AV

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12698
  • Good Vibes 331
Re: split from Cure guitar thread / pickups
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2012, 05:04:25 pm »
bump notice.
Gone

Offline Scooter Trash

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 3033
  • Good Vibes 83
Re: split from Cure guitar thread / pickups
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2012, 07:23:54 pm »
Then it wouldn't be a humbucker. The two coils being identical are what give it the hum cancellation. Also a transformers coils are not connected.


What I was thinking was that cutting the windings at the center tap would turn a humbucking pickup into an isolation transformer. Then, if the winding ratio was different it could be used as a step-up or step-down transformer..
I dream of a better tomorrow where chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.

Offline TB-AV

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12698
  • Good Vibes 331
Re: split from Cure guitar thread / pickups
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2012, 09:25:40 pm »
I think that would it into two chokes.

The transformer would need to wound on a shared magnetic core.

Gone

Offline Scooter Trash

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 3033
  • Good Vibes 83
Re: split from Cure guitar thread / pickups
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2012, 09:29:48 pm »
I think that would it into two chokes.

The transformer would need to wound on a shared magnetic core.

Ahhh... I forgot that they have separate cores.. You'd probably still be able to push some electrons across them, but it wouldn't be very efficient lol
I dream of a better tomorrow where chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.

 

Get The Forum As A Mobile App