Author Topic: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis  (Read 17365 times)

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Offline flashollie27

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2016, 02:26:28 pm »
So I am on stage 4 of the BC. Loving it. I thought I had picked up stage four quite easily til I got to trying to learn Live Forever.
I am fine with the normal starting place of 4 down strums and have the chord change speed good enough.  But I can't figure out the strumming pattern described as offically 16th but written as 8th note pattern in the book.

J suggests doing 2 downs on 1 &  3 ie D  miss D miss  for a bar then 1 and 2 3 or DUD D
What he seems to be playing is D D DUDD without the missed down strums but uses pauses and I thought we had to miss the strings on down strums on 2 and 4.

I get the whoe thing about keeping your strumming hand moving and why thats important but it doesnt seem thats whats happen on the YT clip for this song?
I certianly cant do the down miss down miss but can do dudd of the second bar. But I do a "down miss" or should you the pause for a down so teh next bar starts at the right point?
What I can do is play d d with what feels the right pause i give a sort of flick of my wrist after teh down strums, the 2 strums and then do the dudd, this is whats I think J is doing on YT? But it all happens very quick to really see.

Everything things seems more squeezed up when its played than what the notation in the book suggests?

Any advice gladly recieved.

Marcus

Offline Rossco01

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2016, 04:09:10 pm »
The pauses that you are noticing are actually where Justin would do a down and up. In order to get these patterns right you need to start by doing it really slowly and counting. Don't worry that it's nowhere near the speed you need it to be. A 16th note pattern means you have 16 beats per bar so 8 downs and 8 ups. That's quite a lot to squeeze into a small space of time particularly when you are just learning, which is why Justin splits it into two....however those little pauses are where you'd get a down and up in.

Your little flick of the wrist - if you think about it - is a down and up. At this stage in your progress if it sounds right then that is probably okay but you need to remember/understand the concept. Then as you progress through the course and into IM Justin will build on it to introduce - in IM - 16th note strumming patterns properly.

I recorded this track recently - again - so I've probably got two versions on my soundcloud if you want to listen to my beginners version.
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Offline flashollie27

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2016, 07:57:05 pm »
Thanks. If I get the pause needed by my wrist flick do I need to do the full dummy down and up in preparation for later in my guitar development. I must say it's really hard to miss a whole down and up strum.

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Offline tobyjenner

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2016, 08:15:25 pm »
Flash

In addition to what Rossco said, the other thing you need to bear in mind, is effectively doubling up the notes as they appear in the songbook.

For the 4 down strums its just 1 bar G 1 bar D 1 bar Am half bar C half bar D etc four strums each bar. As Justin breaks the 16th pattern into 2 bars of 4 beats (so its shown as 8ths), so you need to treat it as 2 bars of G 2 bars D 2 bars Am 1 bar C 1 bar D. Also you now need to count 1&2&3&4& for each bar or 1+2+3+4+

So the 2 bars of G are

V&V&4& V^V&V&4&   or V+V+ V^V+4+               V down  ^ up miss on the & or +

Same for D and Am.........Em in chorus

So that half bar of C and D becomes 1 bar of each as below

C V&V&4& or V+V+               
D V^V&V&4&   or  V^V+4+               

As Rossco says practice the pattern slowly and get it under your fingers before increasing the tempo.

Hope that helps

Toby
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Arrived here Mar 2013 Since completed BC, RUST 1 & 2, IM and MTMS Now on Blues Rhythm and Blues Lead
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Offline Rossco01

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2016, 09:12:04 pm »
Flash, what Toby said PLUS no you dont need to do the "dummy" down and up but you must remember it as down and up. Later on as you learn more complicated patterns youll be missing down and up strums at various points as part of the pattern.
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Offline flashollie27

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2016, 08:48:52 am »
Thanks for the responses. I think I want to keep to how Justin demonstrates with the proper down strums missing the stings. So I'm better prepared for later lessons. 
So I've gone back a step and have been just doing a rust from the earlier stages and doing live forever very slowly, without a chord on at first and recently with a chord on.

Soon as I put the chord on I can't do the missing down strums? I guess I need to go back to the no chord strumming and get that embedded in even more.
It all takes time.

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Offline tobyjenner

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2016, 11:55:33 am »
Arrived here Mar 2013 Since completed BC, RUST 1 & 2, IM and MTMS Now on Blues Rhythm and Blues Lead
My Soundcloud : https://soundcloud.com/tobyjenner/
Roadcase : https://justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=39537.msg339454#msg33945

Offline flashollie27

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2016, 04:17:40 pm »
I know, but this seems to take alot longer than it should. Surely missing stings shouldn't be this hard?
Whats really frustrating is I can play this and it sounds good (for me) by doing it by ear.  I'm getting the timing right by pausing and then strumming when I feel I should strum.

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Offline tobyjenner

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2016, 04:55:32 pm »
Flash

You've just gotta work on keeping that hand moving, as Justin says. That stop start style will make things really hard when you move onto 16th strumming patterns in the future. When I first started out 20 years ago none of the books mentioned the need to keep that hand moving and I adopted the stop start approach to the songs I was learning, my rhythm eventually just bombed and I eventually gave up bar the odd noodle 2 or 3 times a year.  :'(

Yes it took a while to get the hang of it but now its paying dividends. Sometimes you've just got to slow things down to a ridiculously slow speed to get it working and then very slowly build from their. Certainly still true for me when learning a new song with a real complicated (for me) pattern. I just hit the brakes until I've sussed it out and gradually add tempo until it matches the original.

Toby
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Arrived here Mar 2013 Since completed BC, RUST 1 & 2, IM and MTMS Now on Blues Rhythm and Blues Lead
My Soundcloud : https://soundcloud.com/tobyjenner/
Roadcase : https://justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=39537.msg339454#msg33945

Offline guitar65riff

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2016, 11:40:29 pm »
Thanks for the quick response sophiehiker!

I'm not having trouble with it, even with 16th note strumming.  For some reason, I have picked up strumming very easily for beginner.  It's just something I "get" - or at least I'm a good mimic.  I can play the song either way, I just like the way it sounds with the DDU.  Just wondering if it's odd to invert a strum like that.  (hope that makes sense)
If you like how it sounds, go with it.
I often change strumming patterns and add sus chords to improvise in a song. You don't have to learn a song by rote

Offline flashollie27

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2016, 08:28:05 am »
Well I think I have it.
D miss D miss D U DD miss. The miss is not as full a strum as the normal down but I am doing 8 down strums some hit the string and some don't.  The only way I could do it was to mute the strings and practice the pattern 5  minutes a day for the past 3 weeks. I am pleased that's I've cracked it.
To re-enforce this should I try a song wit some more missed down strums in. Any recommendations around stages 4 or 5.
Can I say thanks for all the help and support.  Was tempted to give up but people helped see the benefit to persevere and get it technically right

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Offline Rossco01

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2016, 01:29:32 pm »
Well done guitar65 need to take same approach to future stages and songs. There has been a lot of songs that seemed impossible to me to start with but its just practice and perseverance that's needed most of the time.
BC 11/13-11/14, IM Stage - Complete?
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Offline SiegeFrog

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2016, 02:48:03 pm »
Song suggestions:

Taylor Swift - Back to December
Bon Jovi - Dead or Alive
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Seagull Maritime SWS CW SG QI

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Offline N.I.B.

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2019, 11:28:57 am »
So working with the idea of 8th note strumming for 2 bars, what bpm should we be practicing this until?

Offline jono

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2019, 09:36:05 pm »
Practice 8th note strumming until you can play 8th notes in a song. Once you start using them in songs you will naturally increase in speed.

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