Author Topic: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis  (Read 22753 times)

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Offline justinguitar

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BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« on: December 15, 2011, 09:58:14 pm »
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 10:17:17 pm by Indigo »
"You can get help from teachers, but you are going to have to learn a lot by yourself, sitting alone in a room." Dr. Seuss

Offline jeffbrig

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2012, 02:04:29 pm »
Let me preface this by saying it's probably a dumb question.  Beginner here, <2 months playing.

Playing around with the more advanced strumming pattern here.  Aside from a few extra strums thrown in, the basic pattern is
D  D  DUD  D

For some reason, I keep wanting to turn that DUD into a DDU, even if I keep the same timing.  I like the sound of the down strum better there.  Is this a bad habit (flipping a strum), something I should avoid doing?

Offline sophiehiker

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2012, 03:01:14 pm »
It's a real good idea to learn the strumming pattern before you improvise on it.  Once you learn the pattern, then you can feel free to exercise artistic license to modify it.

Make sure your strumming arm is moving in a consistent manner, like a pendulum, while playing.

If I remember correctly, the advanced strumming pattern on this song is 16th note strumming. More of an intermediate technique.  Maybe that's what's confusing.

...where the deer and the antelope play.  Well, they're not really playing.  They're fleeing in terror.

Offline jeffbrig

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2012, 03:14:42 pm »
Thanks for the quick response sophiehiker!

I'm not having trouble with it, even with 16th note strumming.  For some reason, I have picked up strumming very easily for beginner.  It's just something I "get" - or at least I'm a good mimic.  I can play the song either way, I just like the way it sounds with the DDU.  Just wondering if it's odd to invert a strum like that.  (hope that makes sense)

Offline sophiehiker

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2012, 04:09:23 pm »

@jeffbrig,  Glad you're getting the strumming so quickly.

Your terminolgy "inverting a strum" is a bit weird.  When strumming the arm is always moving: down, up, down, up... in constant rhythm.  You choose either to hit the strings, or not, as the arm is moving up and down.

The strumming pattern in the part of the song we're talking about is DUD, but you like DDU.  But, since the arm is always moving up and down at a constant rhythm, what should be happening is D_DU.  Where the underscore in D_DU is a missed up strum.  Does that make sense?

If the rhythm of your arm movement is changing, then yes, it's odd.



...where the deer and the antelope play.  Well, they're not really playing.  They're fleeing in terror.

Offline jeffbrig

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2012, 05:23:08 pm »

If the rhythm of your arm movement is changing, then yes, it's odd.


That's exactly it - putting a hitch in my rhythm to flip it.  Thanks... I'll stop doing that - don't want to ingrain any bad habits.

Offline Oddo

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2012, 04:24:03 pm »
In the lesson Justin says that you should play C and D chords for two bars.How do you do that when you play the strumming pattern?I mean,do you have to play it on its full length on these chords or only a part of it and then quickly change to the next chord?Hope I was clear enough.

Offline sophiehiker

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2012, 07:46:41 pm »
Sticking with 1/8 note strumming:

Chords G, D, and Am get two bars.  Each is played for:
1+2+3+4+1+2+3+4+
D      D       DUD

The chords C and D get one bar each.  The C chord gets:
1+2+3+4+
D      D

The D chord gets:
1+2+3+4+
DUD

So you see the strumming for the C and D chords put together look like the other chords.

Does that help?
...where the deer and the antelope play.  Well, they're not really playing.  They're fleeing in terror.

Offline Pete83

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2014, 09:35:46 pm »
Im having problems with the Fmaj7 chord as its not on the website. Im danish and sometimes Justin speaks a bit fast which is fine, but when it comes to fret and string etc its too fast lol  ;)

Offline Melsie

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2014, 10:03:50 pm »
Im having problems with the Fmaj7 chord as its not on the website. Im danish and sometimes Justin speaks a bit fast which is fine, but when it comes to fret and string etc its too fast lol  ;)

Hey Pete, the Fmaj7 chord is played xx3210 - the 1st finger goes on the 1st fret of the 2nd string; the second finger goes on the 2nd fret of the 3rd string; and the 3rd finger goes on the 3rd fret of the 4th string. The 5th and 6th strings are not played. It actually feels a lot like playing a C chord, except from the fact that you've moved your 2nd and 3rd fingers physically downwards.

However, if you're talking about this particular song Live Forever, the chord at the end of the chorus is actually an Fadd9, which is played xx3213. So basically you start with the Fmaj7, and add your 4th finger to the 3rd fret of the 1st string. But you could play Fmaj7 instead if you want, it would still sound ok, just not exactly like the record.

Offline DaniDD

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2015, 09:22:17 pm »
Hey,
I've been struggling with improvising on the strumming pattern.
Any tip that you can give me?

Thanks.

Offline Mikey d

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2015, 12:58:10 pm »
Hey Dani D,
Key is in improvising....listen to the original and play around til you get something good.... ;D

Offline musicman84

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2015, 05:16:38 am »
After watching/listening to Noel Gallagher playing this song acoustic and playing it a lot myself, the strumming pattern I use is D D D U U D D U D U. Works really well for this song!

Offline trilobitalbino

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2015, 06:11:14 pm »
The final part of the chorus we play one or two bars of F (whatever version of F someone uses)?

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Offline musicman84

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2016, 06:22:34 am »
The Fmaj7 is played for 2 bars.

Offline flashollie27

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2016, 02:26:28 pm »
So I am on stage 4 of the BC. Loving it. I thought I had picked up stage four quite easily til I got to trying to learn Live Forever.
I am fine with the normal starting place of 4 down strums and have the chord change speed good enough.  But I can't figure out the strumming pattern described as offically 16th but written as 8th note pattern in the book.

J suggests doing 2 downs on 1 &  3 ie D  miss D miss  for a bar then 1 and 2 3 or DUD D
What he seems to be playing is D D DUDD without the missed down strums but uses pauses and I thought we had to miss the strings on down strums on 2 and 4.

I get the whoe thing about keeping your strumming hand moving and why thats important but it doesnt seem thats whats happen on the YT clip for this song?
I certianly cant do the down miss down miss but can do dudd of the second bar. But I do a "down miss" or should you the pause for a down so teh next bar starts at the right point?
What I can do is play d d with what feels the right pause i give a sort of flick of my wrist after teh down strums, the 2 strums and then do the dudd, this is whats I think J is doing on YT? But it all happens very quick to really see.

Everything things seems more squeezed up when its played than what the notation in the book suggests?

Any advice gladly recieved.

Marcus

Offline Rossco01

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2016, 04:09:10 pm »
The pauses that you are noticing are actually where Justin would do a down and up. In order to get these patterns right you need to start by doing it really slowly and counting. Don't worry that it's nowhere near the speed you need it to be. A 16th note pattern means you have 16 beats per bar so 8 downs and 8 ups. That's quite a lot to squeeze into a small space of time particularly when you are just learning, which is why Justin splits it into two....however those little pauses are where you'd get a down and up in.

Your little flick of the wrist - if you think about it - is a down and up. At this stage in your progress if it sounds right then that is probably okay but you need to remember/understand the concept. Then as you progress through the course and into IM Justin will build on it to introduce - in IM - 16th note strumming patterns properly.

I recorded this track recently - again - so I've probably got two versions on my soundcloud if you want to listen to my beginners version.
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Offline flashollie27

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2016, 07:57:05 pm »
Thanks. If I get the pause needed by my wrist flick do I need to do the full dummy down and up in preparation for later in my guitar development. I must say it's really hard to miss a whole down and up strum.

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Offline tobyjenner

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2016, 08:15:25 pm »
Flash

In addition to what Rossco said, the other thing you need to bear in mind, is effectively doubling up the notes as they appear in the songbook.

For the 4 down strums its just 1 bar G 1 bar D 1 bar Am half bar C half bar D etc four strums each bar. As Justin breaks the 16th pattern into 2 bars of 4 beats (so its shown as 8ths), so you need to treat it as 2 bars of G 2 bars D 2 bars Am 1 bar C 1 bar D. Also you now need to count 1&2&3&4& for each bar or 1+2+3+4+

So the 2 bars of G are

V&V&4& V^V&V&4&   or V+V+ V^V+4+               V down  ^ up miss on the & or +

Same for D and Am.........Em in chorus

So that half bar of C and D becomes 1 bar of each as below

C V&V&4& or V+V+               
D V^V&V&4&   or  V^V+4+               

As Rossco says practice the pattern slowly and get it under your fingers before increasing the tempo.

Hope that helps

Toby
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Offline Rossco01

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2016, 09:12:04 pm »
Flash, what Toby said PLUS no you dont need to do the "dummy" down and up but you must remember it as down and up. Later on as you learn more complicated patterns youll be missing down and up strums at various points as part of the pattern.
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Offline flashollie27

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2016, 08:48:52 am »
Thanks for the responses. I think I want to keep to how Justin demonstrates with the proper down strums missing the stings. So I'm better prepared for later lessons. 
So I've gone back a step and have been just doing a rust from the earlier stages and doing live forever very slowly, without a chord on at first and recently with a chord on.

Soon as I put the chord on I can't do the missing down strums? I guess I need to go back to the no chord strumming and get that embedded in even more.
It all takes time.

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Offline tobyjenner

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2016, 11:55:33 am »
Here since Mar 2013 Completed BC, RUST 1 & 2, IM, MTMS Still on Blues Rhythm and Blues Lead
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Offline flashollie27

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2016, 04:17:40 pm »
I know, but this seems to take alot longer than it should. Surely missing stings shouldn't be this hard?
Whats really frustrating is I can play this and it sounds good (for me) by doing it by ear.  I'm getting the timing right by pausing and then strumming when I feel I should strum.

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Offline tobyjenner

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2016, 04:55:32 pm »
Flash

You've just gotta work on keeping that hand moving, as Justin says. That stop start style will make things really hard when you move onto 16th strumming patterns in the future. When I first started out 20 years ago none of the books mentioned the need to keep that hand moving and I adopted the stop start approach to the songs I was learning, my rhythm eventually just bombed and I eventually gave up bar the odd noodle 2 or 3 times a year.  :'(

Yes it took a while to get the hang of it but now its paying dividends. Sometimes you've just got to slow things down to a ridiculously slow speed to get it working and then very slowly build from their. Certainly still true for me when learning a new song with a real complicated (for me) pattern. I just hit the brakes until I've sussed it out and gradually add tempo until it matches the original.

Toby
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Offline guitar65riff

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Re: BS-409 • Live Forever - Oasis
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2016, 11:40:29 pm »
Thanks for the quick response sophiehiker!

I'm not having trouble with it, even with 16th note strumming.  For some reason, I have picked up strumming very easily for beginner.  It's just something I "get" - or at least I'm a good mimic.  I can play the song either way, I just like the way it sounds with the DDU.  Just wondering if it's odd to invert a strum like that.  (hope that makes sense)
If you like how it sounds, go with it.
I often change strumming patterns and add sus chords to improvise in a song. You don't have to learn a song by rote

 

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