Author Topic: BL-205 • Dominant 7th Chord Grips  (Read 13549 times)

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Offline de_conne

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Re: BL-205 • Dominant 7th Chord Grips
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2015, 03:22:42 pm »
Oh my ...

This is a hard stage, I feel like I'm hitting my first plateau here...

It's not the different chord shapes, my fingers can get used to them fairly easy (I've done IM course).

It's my brain  :)

So... To keep things simple, this is how I see it:
- A 12 bar blues => Exists of 3 Chords. => I IV and V
- Depending on the Key, this is the 1st, 4th and 5th note of the major scale of that key.
- In this lesson we get 6 7th chord grips with their respective root note.
- All we have to do, is pick a chord grip and play the I, IV or V chord wherever we want on the neck, depending on the chosen chord? (Yes, I know, If I look at the chart there are even more chords ...)

Is this more or less correct?

I'm into guitar a little more then one year now, I know where to find the notes, more or less by heart on the 5th and 6th and High E string. For the others, I still need to think. I can't change chord grips and move all over the neck to the correct note while improvising...

I think that will take me at least another year of practice.

How long has this stage taken you guys?

Regards,
de_conne
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Offline shadowscott007

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Re: BL-205 • Dominant 7th Chord Grips
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2015, 04:00:04 pm »
Yes.  That is more or less correct.

The lesson is about understanding why there are so many possible permutations, and how to play around with them, and maybe find a few you like.

I don't think the lesson is about memorizing and learning to play EVERY permutation.  It is about understanding how to construct and learn ANY permutation you desire and to give you the tools you need to figure out, transcribe, how a particular blues tune you like was played.

For me this is a out the point where caged comes in.  If you understand the 5 basic major chord shapes and the scale degrees that are under your fingers when you are playing them, it is a lot easier remember the grips, because the are not so much new things as they are tweaks to things you already know.

This might belp.  Look at each of the shapes, see the original major chord.  What note did you give up in order to play the b7?  You drop a root note back to the b7th or add the b7th above a 5thesis you were playing.  Or both, E and A shape 7th chords come to mind.

Shadow
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Offline stitch101

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Re: BL-205 • Dominant 7th Chord Grips
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2015, 05:10:59 pm »
This is exactly why I hate when guitar teachers (not just Justin but all of then) teach the major scale
with Dots and not numbers. If you take the time to learn the major scale in intervals instead of dot
you would already know where every 4th and 5th of every scale is and it's really simple.

Except for the B string the 4th is always directly below the root and the 5th is always directly above
the root or two frets up from the 4th.

So when you're playing a 1 4 5 progression and want to play up the neck find your root on any string
and the corresponding chord shape that goes with that root note.

Using Justin's lesson as an example start with the D7(root note D string) shape F7 chord
the B root is right below the F so use the shape where the root is right below the F which is the A shape
now you can slide that up two frets or use the chord shape where the root is right above the F note
which is the C7 shape or the A7 shape.
 
Look at the this scale chart and learn it. Then it you want learn all 5 CAGED patterns like this with the
Numbers not the Dots.



Even using 3 note per string the rule where the notes are applies

Offline de_conne

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Re: BL-205 • Dominant 7th Chord Grips
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2015, 01:01:07 pm »
Hi Shadow and Stitch,

Thx for your replies!

This is for me also the first time I get some idea about the Caged system.I've heard lots about it, but I've sticked pretty much to Justin's course, first BC and then IM. And now I'm into the Blues Lead course.

When I come to think of it, I guess it's more or less the same type of lesson as the IM lesson about Triad Shapes. It was also a hard lesson, figuring out the shapes, then the minor shapes and then both all over again but starting from the D string. Now I've worked on that for quite some hours, but I know now, that they exist, and I know most of them, and I can figure out what they are, even on string D, G, B.

I can't play them by heart, or moving them around the neck instantly, but I can figure it out and then play it any way I want.

I guess this lesson has more or less the same purpose.

Stitch,

Thanks for the charts, they are helpfull! (Although I don't recognize the second shape???  ??? )
And, in the previous Blues lessons, Justin talks about Playing blues in all keys, and then shows the typical blues shapes on strings A and E.

I think the difficulty mainly lies in the following facts:
1st know the fretboard and all the notes by heart, instantly (coz, you're improvising ...)
2nd know what shape to play on that string, instantly (coz, you're improvising ...)
3rd know what note to play next, again, instantly (coz, you're improvising ...)
4the know what other notes you can play in stead of previous, instantly, (again, coz you're imrpovising ...)

I think all of the above, just come with time and practice, and I shouldn't be sticking with this lesson (as I haven't with the Triad's lesson) until I can do it the way Justin can.

This is more like an intro, knowing what is possible and playing around with it.

Regards,
de_conne
BC started Jan 2014, currently playing in a band.
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Offline shadowscott007

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Re: BL-205 • Dominant 7th Chord Grips
« Reply #49 on: February 16, 2015, 01:24:00 pm »
I sort of agree with Stitch about naming the dots.  I'm just not sure at what point you do that.  I'm thinking specifically of chords.

You have to be careful that you don't try to make someone drink from a firehose.

Maybe it gets rolled in when you start learning your minors.  D chord is made of these notes, D F# and A called the 1 3 and 5, then you learn the notes you are playing in the D chord.  Now for a D minor you flat the third, which means you play the note a half step below.  So the F# becomes an F, and you D minor shape becomes this and you put your fingers like that.  Very specific, limited info relevant to the issue at hand.

That leads to questions (um why are they called the 1 3 5?) which are pretty easy to deal with one on one, but are a bit more difficult for a "generic" outline.  And really, in order to play you don't need to know that.  But at some point you do.

So I'm on the fence for a when you start sliding in more than the dots...

Shadow
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Offline stitch101

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Re: BL-205 • Dominant 7th Chord Grips
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2015, 07:09:35 pm »
I sort of agree with Stitch about naming the dots.  I'm just not sure at what point you do that.  I'm thinking specifically of chords.

Shadow

If you start with the intervals as soon as you start learning the scale it makes it easier.
Learning the note names is harder I can't do it with out thinking but the intervals are just
paying attention to the numbers R 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 R. It doesn't matter what Major scale you are playing
the intervals are always the same.

Quote
That leads to questions (um why are they called the 1 3 5?) which are pretty easy to deal with one on one, but are a bit more difficult for a "generic" outline.  And really, in order to play you don't need to know that.  But at some point you do.

You are right you don't need to know that but why not start with it right from the beginning.
Instead of showing dots show numbers and start with "This is the Root note or number 1
this is the second interval or number 2 and so on. It goes up to 7 because there are 7 notes
in the major scale then it repeats starting with the Root or #1.


de_conne
The second chart is Three notes per String. It's used more when you get into modes. I posted it to
show you it doesn't matter what pattern you use the rules apply to where the intervals are.

Quote
1st know the fretboard and all the notes by heart, instantly (coz, you're improvising ...)
You don't need to know the names of the notes just the intervals the 1 4 5 is the same in all keys

Quote
2nd know what shape to play on that string, instantly (coz, you're improvising ...)
Yes this is good to know and it's note that hard there are basically only 5 shapes. Once you know
the shapes and their Root notes you can play then any where on the neck. Learn all the root notes
in each shape they have 2 or 3 each. Once you know then it will help linking the shape together.

Quote
3rd know what note to play next, again, instantly (coz, you're improvising ...)
4the know what other notes you can play in stead of previous, instantly, (again, coz you're imrpovising ...)

You don't need to know the note names just the interval number.


Offline de_conne

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Re: BL-205 • Dominant 7th Chord Grips
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2015, 01:01:07 pm »
Omg,

I saw my last post's date: 16/02 ...
I'm still working on this lesson, we're 7 months later :)

I am able to 'improvise' a blues, using most of the shapes. But, I'm still not using all shapes and all variations.
I've also learnt the 9th and 13th chord extensions, but can still only incorporate one 9th shape into my blues improvising. It's hard...

Justin explains it well, but I jumped to quickly trying to learn all shapes.
Justin's right on incorporating the shapes one by one in stead of throwing them all in at once.

I think for others starting this lesson, this is a good practice schedule to work all shapes in:.
First weeks: Only A and E shape 7th chords. Work them in as good as possible
Next weeks: throw in a new chord and try all possibilities
Next weeks: throw in another new chord and work it in.
Keep repeating ...

IMHO, I think this lesson, is to big to put into a single video lesson :)

regards,
de_conne
BC started Jan 2014, currently playing in a band.
www.lastchance.be
Guitars: Yamaha Pacifica 112,Epiphone Les Paul Standard Plutop Pro,Seagull Coastline Cedar Folk
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https://soundcloud.com/de_conne

Offline Schuifpui

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Re: BL-205 • Dominant 7th Chord Grips
« Reply #52 on: November 26, 2015, 07:50:16 pm »
I've done the BC and IM a while ago and then started on the blues rhythm and got stuck on this lesson. Now after 1 or 2 years or so I want to complete this one. In the meantime I did the CAGED lessons, fingerstyle and some other stuff. I feel way more comfortable to start this lesson than back then. (although a felt like a total beginner repeating the 12 bar blues stuff before this lesson).

I was wondering where the B7 open chord would fit in all this for some time, until I realized it is the based on the C-shaped 7th chord. I think most people are familiar with the B7 open chord and it could be worthwhile mentioning this in the lesson. It is basically a combination of the two variations that Justin mentions in his lesson. To avoid the shortage of fingers, the 2nd string can be muted when not playing the open chord. It's a nice variation and also easy to play.

A friend of mine thought me a simple rhythm thing a couple of years ago, so he could improvise over that with the minor pentatonic scale. I was really a beginner and had no clue of music theory when he taught me this pattern. I never realized that this was based on all that's taught in this course.  It's not a 12 bar blues, it is 8 bars instead:

A7   | A7   | D7   | D7   | E7  |F7 E7| A7  | F7 E7|

played around the 5th fret. The D7, E7 and F7 are played with the B7 open chord shape and muting the 2nd string.

Don't really know why I'm posting this. It feels like a lot (not saying all) is coming together all of a sudden now that I realize the B7-shaped thing that I was playing fit's in here.

Offline Dr Winterbourne

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Re: BL-205 • Dominant 7th Chord Grips
« Reply #53 on: December 09, 2015, 05:42:18 pm »
Isn't it great when the pieces fit together?
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Offline Marc11

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Re: BL-205 • Dominant 7th Chord Grips
« Reply #54 on: November 23, 2017, 10:12:45 pm »
I am studying lesson  bl205 and i understand the caged system , but how is a Bb7 chord, or a D7 chord Made .Is iT correct if you count the 1-3-5 notes and then add the seventh by counting two notes up...So for example a C7 chord contains: c e g and Bb , and for example a G7 chord is F b g.? And the caged system shapes doesn,t Always work  the same with dominant seventh chords ??

Offline close2u

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Re: BL-205 • Dominant 7th Chord Grips
« Reply #55 on: November 24, 2017, 12:09:31 am »
@ Marc
Dominant 7 has the formula
1, 3, 5, b7

But in varying CAGED shapes those notes will not always appear in that order / sequence from thickest to thinnest (lowest to highest) strings of the chord.
That means you are playing 'inversions' of the chord.

 

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