Author Topic: Seymour Duncan might move production to China  (Read 3430 times)

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Offline Dan Graves

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Seymour Duncan might move production to China
« on: September 12, 2011, 08:38:59 am »
Just read the title already.
Now my question to y'all : knowing this, would you still buy a Duncan pickup for the same prices, or would you only buy them now if the price drops to a level suitable for Chinese prodcuts ?
I personally would never pay the current price anymore, and if they do move production to China my boss will demand a lower wholesale and retail price from the SD rep, or we would likely drop the entire brand.

Offline TB-AV

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Re: Seymour Duncan might move production to China
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2011, 01:28:45 pm »
If they sounded like what I wanted, I would pay the same. IOW, if it's exactly the same pickup.

Let's say rather than some sinister plan to make an extra buck off me, that they are moving to China so that they can actually stay in business and provide a product at the same price I am used to paying.

If you don't know the facts and actually what is changing with regards to who is getting paid what, then it makes no difference to me. Same product same price. Doesn't change life. For all I know the actual people winding them here are Chinese.

What if some really wealthy person gave SD a sum of money to operate on. A grant. That too would lower their operating costs. Would you then demand that they pass along to you their good fortune when you are already perfectly happy to pay the going rate charged by them and others?

If you were repairing a guitar of mine and you decided to charge me $100. I was happy with that and brought you another guitar. $100. Now your boss gives you a raise, say 20%.  So should I now tell you that on my next two guitars I'm only going to pay you $80 each?  My life didn't change but I know you are better off and you were perfectly happy making X dollars, so I should be the one to be rewarded, right?

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Offline mouser9169

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Re: Seymour Duncan might move production to China
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2011, 01:40:23 pm »
If they sounded like what I wanted, I would pay the same. IOW, if it's exactly the same pickup.

Let's say rather than some sinister plan to make an extra buck off me, that they are moving to China so that they can actually stay in business and provide a product at the same price I am used to paying.


I'm the same.  A lot of the stuff that's "Made in the USA" have all the components already manufactured offshore somewhere and are only assembled here.  For all I know quality might improve if the parts are assembled closer to the manufacturing.

Like it or not, we're living in the age of a global market.
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Offline Dan Graves

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Re: Seymour Duncan might move production to China
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2011, 02:07:29 pm »
If they sounded like what I wanted, I would pay the same. IOW, if it's exactly the same pickup.

Let's say rather than some sinister plan to make an extra buck off me, that they are moving to China so that they can actually stay in business and provide a product at the same price I am used to paying.

If you don't know the facts and actually what is changing with regards to who is getting paid what, then it makes no difference to me. Same product same price. Doesn't change life. For all I know the actual people winding them here are Chinese.

What if some really wealthy person gave SD a sum of money to operate on. A grant. That too would lower their operating costs. Would you then demand that they pass along to you their good fortune when you are already perfectly happy to pay the going rate charged by them and others?

If you were repairing a guitar of mine and you decided to charge me $100. I was happy with that and brought you another guitar. $100. Now your boss gives you a raise, say 20%.  So should I now tell you that on my next two guitars I'm only going to pay you $80 each?  My life didn't change but I know you are better off and you were perfectly happy making X dollars, so I should be the one to be rewarded, right?



I understand your point and agree, but in this case...
Well, you can read, so go have a look here : http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=223198

Offline TB-AV

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Re: Seymour Duncan might move production to China
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2011, 02:50:47 pm »
Well Dan that's a whole different story. He is not talking price. He is talking pride.

What is the value of "Made in America". If you look at it from that perspective, there are people that are going to want to an American tradition to stay "MIA". Those people might simply buy a differnt pickup no matter how low you make the price.

You see SD was a success story of the American Dream. So America and many Americans have this protective desire. We want that product to stay American. Even after SD sold it's still not the same as ..."ok, he sold , they went over seas, now the new stuff is not as good"....

The reality is.... "he sold, they went over seas, and the new stuff doesn't have that special nostalgic quality any longer"  same product ( if everyone keeps their eyes on the Chinese manufacturing because they are known for some unusual business practices )

Soo..... to answer that question..... If a SD pickup had a sound ( like no other ) that I had to have, I would buy it if it said Made in ( insert country here ).

If however, ( which is most likely the case ), the SD pickup could be had through another maker in the USA, and I wanted to keep my money here, I would buy those. As a side item, I might also simply order something from another country like Bare Knuckles or something. All the big pickup makers know what they are all doing so if I had to spend the money and SD was in China, I would simply shop worlwide. I wouldn't say,,, ok drop your price and I'll still buy your pickup.

So yes, moving SD to China will loose that MIA aspect and likely hurt them in the long run. Does it impact me from a financial aspect? No. They will forever loose that "American Dream" aspect though.

It's pride and nostalgia. The price is not an issue. The market will set the price. Your boss won't have to lower his price. The market will adjust the price for him. If enough people simply don't like the MIC sticker they won't buy them and the price will drop. Then they become a deal "Dude they are the same as the old USA pickups at half the price!" "They are the best deal going" "they sound just as good as xxx"

Then of course demand will allow your boss to charge more and make a bigger profit. Then as I said he gives you a raise. Then I hear about that and stop shopping at your store because you are all capitalists pigs. Then your store goes under......... So no,,,, just tell them to keep making them here in the USA or the entire musical community might suck itself into a giant black hole of nothingness.














« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 03:07:33 pm by TB-AV »
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Offline Dan Graves

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Re: Seymour Duncan might move production to China
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2011, 03:06:18 pm »
Well Dan that's a whole different story. He is not talking price. He is talking price.

What is the value of "Made in America". If you look at it from that perspective, there are people that are going to want to an American tradition to stay "MIA". Those people might simply buy a differnt pickup no matter how low you make the price.

You see SD was a success story of the American Dream. So America and many Americans have this protective desire. We want that product to stay American. Even after SD sold it's still not the same as ..."ok, he sold , they went over seas, now the new stuff is not as good"....

The reality is.... "he sold, they went over seas, and the new stuff doesn't have that special nostalgic quality any longer"  same product ( if everyone keeps their eyes on the Chinese manufacturing because they are known for some unusual business practices )

Soo..... to answer that question..... If a SD pickup had a sound ( like no other ) that I had to have, I would buy it if it said Made in ( insert country here ).

If however, ( which is most likely the case ), the SD pickup could be had through another maker in the USA, and I wanted to keep my money here, I would buy those. As a side item, I might also simply order something from another country like Bare Knuckles or something. All the big pickup makers know what they are all doing so if I had to spend the money and SD was in China, I would simply shop worlwide. I wouldn't say,,, ok drop your price and I'll still buy your pickup.

So yes, moving SD to China will loose that MIA aspect and likely hurt them in the long run. Does it impact me from a financial aspect? No. They will forever loose that "American Dream" aspect though.

It's pride and nostalgia. The price is not an issue. The market will set the price. Your boss won't have to lower his price. The market will adjust the price for him. If enough people simply don't like the MIC sticker they won't buy them and the price will drop. Then they become a deal "Dude they are the same as the old USA pickups at half the price!" "They are the best deal going" "they sound just as good as xxx"

Then of course demand will allow your boss to charge more and make a bigger profit. Then as I said he gives you a raise. Then I hear about that and stop shopping at your store because you are all capitalists pigs. Then your store goes under......... So no,,,, just tell them to keep making them here in the USA or the entire musical community might suck itself into a giant black hole of nothingness.


Why can't you just let me play Devil's Advocate for once and enjoy the ensuing BS discussion ?
Spoilsport  :P

Offline TB-AV

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Re: Seymour Duncan might move production to China
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2011, 03:18:49 pm »
Oh well....

I did fix my typo though. the second "price" should have been "pride"

Hows this.... they make 'em in China and sell for 1/2 price BUT... they also make Super Nostalgic Custom Vintage ( SNCV ) pickups here for 3X the current price?

That way everybody is happy and the money is a wash. It's sort of like life just goes on normally but better.

In fact they should name their first pickup the "SNVC Ecstasy"

The first Chinese pickup can be named... oh I don't know, how about "Bopper omm Mao Mao" that gritty tone in a socialistic sort of way.






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Offline Dan Graves

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Re: Seymour Duncan might move production to China
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2011, 03:28:17 pm »
Ok, i have to admit, i laughed so hard at that i almost fell off my chair.
And funny considering that the business model you described isn't just a caricature of a possible business model, but it seems somehow...
Familiar  ;)
Hello, Gibson and Fender, what are you guys doing here ? ;D

Offline Marklikestea

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Re: Seymour Duncan might move production to China
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2011, 11:10:31 am »
It's a hard one to call as we dont know how many SD pups are fitted in new guitars unbranded, taking the production to china may well close the doors on GAS enthusiasts but equally it may open many more doors for SD products in guitar production, a corporate dream rather than an American dream though.

I'm currently waiting on delivery on a limited run guitar and the forum is mostly buzzing with people choosing Bare Knuckle options, some Demazio but SD is hardly getting a look in which i was surprised at.  Yes i went with BKP as well, I like the sound of my choice but there is something special about buying semi bespoke from a smaller company. I wonder how much that forum reflects the world market ?.

Offline Dan Graves

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Re: Seymour Duncan might move production to China
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2011, 01:37:37 pm »
It's hard to tell, really.
The world guitar market is a fickle one, tastes, wants and needs change so fast sometimes it's dizzying.

On BKP's :
The reason i originally took to BKP's was that a friend had bought some at a U.K. guitar show on a whim, and he loved them so much he spammed all his friends with the 'good news'.
Once i got to try his guitar on my Mark 4 i was so enthusiastic about his BKP's (Rebel Yells) that i asked on the BKP forums what kind of BKP's would suit me.
The forums came up with several answers that seemed a bit too much, so i sent a PM to the man himself.
Tim told me I sounded like i wanted two things, and he suggested Rebel Yells for one guitar, and a Miracle Man set on the other.
They where both excellent choices and perfect for my needs.
Since then i've stopped with the 'let's see what this pickup will sound like on my guitar' game and always just asked in the BKP forums or asked Tim directly.
So far it's worked really well, and my next order(Cold Sweat calibrated covered set) will be sent out soon.

Offline Fever

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Re: Seymour Duncan might move production to China
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2011, 06:15:27 pm »
Oh well....

I did fix my typo though. the second "price" should have been "pride"

Hows this.... they make 'em in China and sell for 1/2 price BUT... they also make Super Nostalgic Custom Vintage ( SNCV ) pickups here for 3X the current price?

That way everybody is happy and the money is a wash. It's sort of like life just goes on normally but better.

In fact they should name their first pickup the "SNVC Ecstasy"

The first Chinese pickup can be named... oh I don't know, how about "Bopper omm Mao Mao" that gritty tone in a socialistic sort of way.








What happens when you find out that your SNVC's are actually being made in China but marketted as Vintage US ones??
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Offline TB-AV

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Re: Seymour Duncan might move production to China
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2011, 06:49:13 pm »
Quote
What happens when you find out that your SNVC's are actually being made in China but marketted as Vintage US ones??

Well, then the price of the "real" SNVC's go through the roof and "experts" will write magazine articles and books to help the novice identify them.
 
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