Author Topic: What is the best way sync video and audio?  (Read 4090 times)

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Offline Tourniquet

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Re: What is the best way sync video and audio?
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2011, 10:57:31 am »
You'll need a common Cue which means you'll have to hear part of the backing track on the video.

For example. lets say you use that clap as the cue. you need to hear that but you don't want to hear the rest of the backing track in their recording. You gotta leave enough time between the cue for them to plug in headphones, get to their video mark, gear up if needed, and get settled to start (unless they have a spare pair of hands to plug them in). It can make attempted takes quite long though.

You can sync without a cue, bit time consuming but possible. in that case you render each component of the audio seperately so that each video can sync up to its isolated track rather than the full mix. just import the full mix at the end.
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Offline TB-AV

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Re: What is the best way sync video and audio?
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2011, 01:52:19 pm »
Quote
In theory it should handle the format (VOB). in practice it throws a wobbly every time (rather amusing as it's a sony camcorder).

Try renaming the file to .mpeg

VOB and even MPEG are delivery formats and were never really intended for editing.

About the generational loss.

If your video comes out of your camera as X then that is the best it will ever be. Well actually you can correct it and make it better actually in Vegas. Then you can save it as AVI. It will be a huge file. It will not only be a loss, it will be better. But either way, just save the X or corrected AVI. then do all your rendering from those files.

Now let's say you render them to mpg. If you need to make changes you don't want to go back and edit your rendered mpg, you want to go back to your project X or AVI file and edit / render those. so your next render will still be a first gen off the master. Always work off an unrendered master.

Same with audio, you loose no resolution off your initial wav files.

Obviously the render itself will be a loss and that is why you usually have to jump through a little hoop to get VOB or MPEG on the time line. They are the wrong type files to be editing but these new cameras have started using it ( and people ripping DVDs ).

About playing in sync..... If you take a file no matter what the BPM, if you play in time with it, you are in sync. I'm not sure what you mean about Reaper and setting the BPM. Do mean if someone had a file recorded at 120 BPM and your Reaper project is at 120 BPM they will sync?  That would be try of any daw provided you aligned them. I might not be following what you mean though.




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Offline TB-AV

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Re: What is the best way sync video and audio?
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2011, 02:17:32 pm »
LBro, if you are going to do cuts which would be typical for most any music video what I would do is this......

that is provided you have exact song, time, timing that you know you want to finish with. IOW, not some sort of free form jam session.

Make a video/audio of the exact song you want finished. As long as it's in time it's fine. This will be your rough.

ROUGH VIDEO / MASTER
-------- Video -- let's pretend this video is mostly extraneous shots like buildings, sunsets or whatever.
-------- Audio -- this audio is basically in time and the near exact finished song

LEAD SINGER VIDEO
-------- Video1 - from Above - they really don;t even need this
-------- Audio1 - from above
---------Video2 - close up of what this guy is going to record - singers video
---------Avdio2-  the singers performance

The lead singer now sends you Vid2/Aud2 and you put it in project like this.

ROUGH VIDEO / Master
-------- Video -- let's pretend this video is mostly extraneous shots like buildings, sunsets or whatever.
-------- Audio -- this audio is basically in time and the near exact finished song
---------Video2 - close up of what this guy is going to record - singers video
---------Avdio2-  the singers performance

repeat for each instrument.

Then edit the video.

Now your initial Rough can also be sent with SMPTE time track if you like and each contributor can simply note the time stamp or samples where their file they send you starts. It all depends on how you want to handle that.

Once you get all your tracks done and every thing is timed up to look nice you render it to  uncompressed AVI ( huge file ). that is your master and can be worked from later if need be with no loss.

So the point is each guy get's his V/A tracks in sync with each other and they in turn will sync with your master.

It would be good for your Rough to have beep spike at the very beginning but to be honest you will probably want to nudge things around by ear to get it all to sit just right. But you will always be moving say Lead Voc Vid/Aud or Bass Vid/Aud. IOW, you will be moving sync'd pairs. You most likely won't disconnect their performance ( unless they screwed up or you start doing special video effects where it doesn''t matter.






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Offline Tourniquet

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Re: What is the best way sync video and audio?
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2011, 03:08:49 pm »
Try renaming the file to .mpeg

VOB and even MPEG are delivery formats and were never really intended for editing.

Tried that before. helped with some programs, but not vegas. I'm good with reaper handling it now.

About the generational loss.

If your video comes out of your camera as X then that is the best it will ever be. Well actually you can correct it and make it better actually in Vegas. Then you can save it as AVI. It will be a huge file. It will not only be a loss, it will be better. But either way, just save the X or corrected AVI. then do all your rendering from those files.

That was the problem I had before, I had to shove the Vob file into one program (which i didn't like overall but could handle the file) and re-render it just to get it accepted by vegas. doesn't sit right with me processing the file like that but I had no choice at the time.

About playing in sync..... If you take a file no matter what the BPM, if you play in time with it, you are in sync. I'm not sure what you mean about Reaper and setting the BPM. Do mean if someone had a file recorded at 120 BPM and your Reaper project is at 120 BPM they will sync?  That would be try of any daw provided you aligned them. I might not be following what you mean though.

that is what I mean, onces it's lined up to the beat, it'll line up to any beat. half the battle is knowing what the software can do.
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Offline LBro

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Re: What is the best way sync video and audio?
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2011, 10:57:12 am »
TB,
Wow - great and well laid out reply. I thinks I got it now and that really helps. Yes, it makes complete sense that others video and audio SHOULD be in sync with themselves. I will have to copy off this info and put in a recording log book or something for future reff.

A Tourni - Yeah Vegas I have looked at and know little about it. Just getting my feet wet in video editing again. I used to make some family films a long time ago but the tools were down right primitive! On another note I thought Vegas could import just about anything now???

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Offline TB-AV

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Re: What is the best way sync video and audio?
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2011, 04:36:40 pm »
Vegas generally locks the Vid/Aud tracks as pairs. They can be unlocked, nudged, deleted or whatever. Then re-locked if desired.

Obviously if you have a closeup of someones hands then unlocking them and moving one will not be in sync. However, for artistic purpose and used with other edits and cuts, the final video might look better and the audio tracks can be made to fit the pocket.


Rule of thumb.....

Great video with terrible audio generally sucks. ( see any Youtube video of live concert footage ( ok, the video on those suck too but you get the point ) )

Crappy video with great audio is often quite passable and accepted. ( See Youtube video  --  Beck-Loser )


Yes,, there is very little you can't get on to Vegas timeline. and mixed media as well. Some formats ( typically delivery formats ) might have you jumping through a little hoop or installing another codec but once you get it, it's a done deal.

Vegas is incredibly powerful. If you decide to get serious about it, Douglas Spotted Eagle has a book that covers all the must know basics. Actually he has several books but his Vegas Editing workshop books are very good. You could probably even get an old one an learn 90% of any thing you need.

Vegas forums.....
http://forums.creativecow.net/sonyvegas
John Rofrano and Mike Kujbida are also top notch.

http://vasst.com/home.aspx
There is a mind numbing bit of free Vegas ( and other ) stuff on this site if you set up an account.

Everything in Vegas gets stored as a simple .veg file and there are tons of them there. It's like having a template that you apply your media to.

http://forums.digitalmedianet.com/cgi-bin/displaywwugindex.fcgi?forum=sonic-foundry_vegas

If you can ask a question in those forums and not get an answer then rest assured you have a very serious or unusual problem. Normally you will get about three different methods to do whatever it is you want.

there is of course the Sony forums as well which are also very good.



VEGAS Specs
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegaspro/techspecs


« Last Edit: July 30, 2011, 05:21:57 pm by TB-AV »
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