Author Topic: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips  (Read 14076 times)

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Offline justinguitar

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« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 05:14:23 pm by justinguitar »
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Offline sophiehiker

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2011, 03:14:50 pm »

I'm having problems with the Dom7. 

When the tip of my index finger touches the low E string, the crease of my index finger is directly over the G string.  That makes it hard to put pressure on the G string and it ends up getting muted.

Any suggestions?
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Offline TB-AV

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2011, 04:05:28 pm »
Move that finger a bit. Possibly angle it a bit. Might be a little different for any guitar you pick up. It takes time.
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XamTheOne

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2011, 11:28:03 pm »

I'm having problems with the Dom7. 

When the tip of my index finger touches the low E string, the crease of my index finger is directly over the G string.  That makes it hard to put pressure on the G string and it ends up getting muted.

Any suggestions?

I like to do a full barre, on all strings, and that fixes the problem for me.

cpdude

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IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2012, 09:24:52 pm »
Hi, I searched for this and couldn't find it, I hope I'm not repeating an already answered question.

In IM-131, Justin mentions that for the most part, he mutes the thin E-string on A-shaped chords, and believes that most of the time it sounds better.

My question for IM-141, the A-shape variations, is whether he also believes that the thin E-string should be muted.

Thanks,

Tim

Offline TB-AV

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2012, 09:37:12 pm »
You don't need the high e string to get the sound of the chord.
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Offline jacksroadhouse

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2012, 10:05:55 pm »
@cpdude:

I think Justin is simply being practical here. The high E string isn't terribly important for the A major barre chord, and muting it makes the chord a lot easier (as in 10 times easier).

But generally speaking, I'd say it depends both on the context and your personal preference. E.g. if you're in the middle of a chord progression where the other chords contain the high E string, and maybe even utilitze it specifically, it may not be such a good idea to mute it for one chord. Still, I wouldn't sweat it too much.

Well, in the end you should trust your ears and use what sounds better to you in the context you're in. That is, if it's even an option for you and you can play the A major barre chord with the high E string ringing.

Btw: you're in IM-141 here, not IM-131 ;)

Offline shadowscott007

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2012, 10:22:52 pm »
My 2 cents.

A major shape - mute it because you are playing the 3 notes on the fourth, third and second strings with a ring finger bar.  You definitely don't want to play the note under your ring finger on the high e string as that makes an A6 chord, and it is likely more hassle than it is worth to let the note under your index ring through.

A shape minor, minor 7, dominant - play the note on the high e string.  You are no longer using a bar, you are individually fingering the notes on the higher frets so the high e note is "free" and relatively easy to let ring.  (Unless of course you are grabbing the b7 note on the high e string with your pinky, but I kinda think of that as a slightly more advanced chord grip.)

One man's opinion.

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deadhead

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2012, 04:38:08 pm »
Hello. I am having a nearly impossible time with A shape barre chords. I cannot get my finger to flex backward in order to press the three strings without muting or pressing others. Does anyone have any thoughts on accomplishing this? Thanks.

Offline jacksroadhouse

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2012, 04:47:28 pm »
@deadhead: I suppose, the "others" would be the high E string, right? In which case: ignore it. Most guitarists mute the high E string when playing an A shaped major barre chord. It's not just a question of technique, but also of anatomy. The chord is still complete, since you're playing the same note (one octave lower) on the D string.

Offline TB-AV

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2012, 04:50:16 pm »
Don't worry if you mute the high e.

Your wrist and arm position can have an impact as well. Alter those as needed. It takes practice and continually improves.

Angle fingers a bit as needed.

Assure the action on your guitar is appropriate to facilitate easy playing ( check the other threads for this info )
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deadhead

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2012, 08:05:07 pm »
Jacks, I am pressing the D, G and B strings and trying to let the others ring through, but if letting the high E mute is fine, I'll do that. I was trying to get it "just right" and never even tried listening to it with the high E muted. Thanks all!

Offline jacksroadhouse

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2012, 08:18:35 pm »
@deadhead: start with getting the chord solid like that (muted high e). 5th string major barre chords are tricky, and in time you may use other fingerings to it as well, e.g. in songs where you want/need the high e string to ring. But that's something for later on.

Sidenar: I actually can make the high E string ring despite the mini barre, but I don't play it like that (too risky - there's no margin for error there). Whenever I want the note on the high e string, I use e.g. B = x24x42, playing the B string with my pinky and the D string with my ring finger, which also mutes the G string. That works fine, and I don't have to use the four-finger-version, which I really hate doing.

Offline FChris

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2013, 11:59:04 am »
Hi there,

can anyone suggest some songs which make heavy use of the A-Shape Min7 or the A-Shape Dom 7 chords. I find that I never stick to one minute changes and after a certain point I only get chords better by using them in songs. Maybe even songs justin has lessons on. would be great.

Thanks
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Offline TB-AV

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2013, 01:56:38 pm »
Any minor blues ... like BB King style for the m7

Any other Blues for the Dom7 - possibly the most popular chord in blues.

Try playing Am Dm7 Em7 at 5th fret
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Offline JayS

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2014, 10:29:45 pm »
I'm having problems with the Dom7. 

When the tip of my index finger touches the low E string, the crease of my index finger is directly over the G string.  That makes it hard to put pressure on the G string and it ends up getting muted.

Any suggestions?

I would like some further help on this myself. If I am playing the A-shaped barre eg C7 then, in my case, my joint crease also mutes the G string and I can see no way around this. I don't see that playing a full barre answers the problem because it causes the low E to be played which is wrong. I play barre chords with the side of my finger and this works well for E shaped and for a A-shaped minor chords. To change to use the flat of my finger does not seem right.. Any more suggestions?

Offline misterg

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2014, 11:57:07 pm »
...To change to use the flat of my finger does not seem right.. Any more suggestions?

You just need to experiment a bit and find the right combination of "finger angle" (between side and flat); Exactly how far the barre finger is across the fretboard; and amount of curvature in your barre finger (it doesn't have to be bar-straight) that give you a good sounding chord in each case.

There isn't a single, fixed  position for all barre chords - it varies subtly depending on whether you're playing (for example) a major or minor chord - for A shape major or minor chords, you don't need to barre with your index finger at all - just fret the root note on the 5th string. For A shaped 7 chords, you do need a good barre, though.

It might seem daunting now, but it soon becomes second nature.

Offline Jokurr

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2016, 01:14:05 am »
I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but I am REALLY struggling with these chord shapes. It's funny, Justin said the basic A major barre chord is tough yet I found that one really easy. Yet he says these ones should be easier yet I am finding them really tough. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, or my hands/fingers/joints are just really weird or what?

The biggest problem I am having is with my ring finger blocking the G string on both the minor 7 and dom 7 shapes. I just cannot seem to get the finger tip angled in a way that doesn't block the G string. The only way I can get around this is if I let my index finger go across all strings like I were making an E shape barre chord, and just back off on pressure near the finger tip so the low E string doesn't ring out. This allows my ring finger to make a higher arch and less likely to block the G string. Same thing applies to my pinky finger blocking the high E string but it doesn't seem to be an issue as often.

Is this a bad habit? I know there is a chance that I'll let the low E string ring out which does sound pretty bad, but I can seem to adjust pressure in the barre much more easily than I can let the G string ring out if I try to play the barre with my index finger just touching the E string. Having my index finger in that position really lowers the arch that my other fingers can make.

PS - not sure if anyone is aware but the "Get help with this lesson" on IM-141 links to the thread for IM-142 instead of this one.

Offline Trio Erectus

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2016, 09:17:45 pm »
The biggest problem I am having is with my ring finger blocking the G string on both the minor 7 and dom 7 shapes. I just cannot seem to get the finger tip angled in a way that doesn't block the G string. The only way I can get around this is if I let my index finger go across all strings like I were making an E shape barre chord, and just back off on pressure near the finger tip so the low E string doesn't ring out. This allows my ring finger to make a higher arch and less likely to block the G string. Same thing applies to my pinky finger blocking the high E string but it doesn't seem to be an issue as often.

Did you find a solution to this problem yet? Just curious, since I seem to be having the exact same issues as you.

The 'A Shape Dominant 7th Barre Chord' just seems impossible to me. I have been trying to find a fingering that would allow the g string to ring clear for two days now without success. If I bar it from the fifth string up, like instructed, my ring finger won't curl enough and ends up muting the g string.

To get my pinky and ring finger to curl up properly and leave enough room for the g string, I have to do a full bar and have the tip of my index finger really stick out above the neck. And then you have the issue of the fretted low e string.

This is super demoralizing. If anybody has any good pointers, I would appreciate it.

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2016, 07:01:19 pm »
Guys are you sure its the ring finger that's muting the G and not a problem with the barre ? I had a similar issue but found it was actually the barre. Try leaving the middle finger down and lifting the ring on the 7 and see the G is clean. Just a thought  8)
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Offline Trio Erectus

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2016, 07:41:12 pm »
Guys are you sure its the ring finger that's muting the G and not a problem with the barre ? I had a similar issue but found it was actually the barre. Try leaving the middle finger down and lifting the ring on the 7 and see the G is clean. Just a thought  8)
Sure, getting a clean barre is part of the problem for me. But the ring finger muting the g string is definitely an issue as well. It just seems nigh impossible to get my hand positioned in a way that would give a clean barre, while muting the sixth string and not having the fourth finger touch the g string.

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2016, 08:05:21 am »
Try putting that ring finger down first and them add the others making fine adjustments, I'm sure you'll get there. Can you post pics so folk can see what your hand is doing, that may help identify the problem.  8)
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Offline Trio Erectus

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2016, 07:30:10 pm »
Try putting that ring finger down first and them add the others making fine adjustments, I'm sure you'll get there. Can you post pics so folk can see what your hand is doing, that may help identify the problem.  8)
If you don't mind me asking, when playing these types of chords, are your fingers parallel to the fretboard? I mean, my fingers tend to lean towards the nut when playing barre chords. So that it's more the side part of the fingertip that frets the strings and not the dead center of the tip. That makes it easier for me to play barre chords in the first few positions. But it doesn't work past fret 7 or so, as there is no extra room.

I'll see if I can upload a photo of this somewhere.

Offline captainamerica

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2017, 06:34:04 pm »
I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but I am REALLY struggling with these chord shapes. It's funny, Justin said the basic A major barre chord is tough yet I found that one really easy. Yet he says these ones should be easier yet I am finding them really tough. Not sure if I'm doing something wrong, or my hands/fingers/joints are just really weird or what?

The biggest problem I am having is with my ring finger blocking the G string on both the minor 7 and dom 7 shapes. I just cannot seem to get the finger tip angled in a way that doesn't block the G string. The only way I can get around this is if I let my index finger go across all strings like I were making an E shape barre chord, and just back off on pressure near the finger tip so the low E string doesn't ring out. This allows my ring finger to make a higher arch and less likely to block the G string. Same thing applies to my pinky finger blocking the high E string but it doesn't seem to be an issue as often.

Is this a bad habit? I know there is a chance that I'll let the low E string ring out which does sound pretty bad, but I can seem to adjust pressure in the barre much more easily than I can let the G string ring out if I try to play the barre with my index finger just touching the E string. Having my index finger in that position really lowers the arch that my other fingers can make.

PS - not sure if anyone is aware but the "Get help with this lesson" on IM-141 links to the thread for IM-142 instead of this one.

Not sure if this poster ever figured it out, but I am having a difficult time with the A shapes dom 7 and min 7; the ring finger is muting the G string so when I try to adjust the ring finger upwards away from the string to give it sufficient room to vibrate the index finger Bar lifts a bit so that the string sounds dull when hit.  No solution that works at fret 5 will also work on frets 1 and 10.  Only the c7 open chord gave me such a tough time.

I am only 2 days in so I will continue working on it at fret 5 and hoping it is just a time/practice issue.

As a side note, I think I've figured out Justin's methodology; he says in the lesson the opposite of whatever the difficulty of the chord is - he claimed the A-shape major is hard (it wasn't) but these are easy (they aren't).  A bit of Tasmanian reverse psychology, I see ;)

Completed: BC, IM.  Now focused on aural/ear training and blues rhythm course....stay focused on Justin's teachings and they will guide you...

Offline SiegeFrog

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Re: IM-141 • A Shape Min, Dom and Min7 Chord Grips
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2017, 09:50:55 pm »
I think of these A shape grips as essentially repeats if the E shape grips (except for the Dominant 7 one), so how did you get on with E7 grip? It's basically the same.


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