Author Topic: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns  (Read 21305 times)

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Offline justinguitar

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IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« on: December 03, 2010, 02:35:03 pm »
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 05:13:41 pm by justinguitar »
"You can get help from teachers, but you are going to have to learn a lot by yourself, sitting alone in a room." Dr. Seuss

Offline sophiehiker

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2013, 12:27:03 pm »
No tabs, but lots of patterns here:

http://www.justinguitar.com/en/SC-012-PatternStudies.php

Hope that helps...   ;)
...where the deer and the antelope play.  Well, they're not really playing.  They're fleeing in terror.

Offline martin_pmd

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2014, 11:39:54 pm »
Hi, I really can't wrap my head around how to play the patterns by just looking at the numbers. Been staring myself blind looking at the numbers and not understanding how to play it.. No problem with the technique, just the numbers. I know pattern 4 and 1.. But that's just from looking at the video of Justin playing them. Can someone please help my understand them. All help would be much appreciated!

Thanks,
Martin

Offline TB-AV

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2014, 12:50:19 am »
1. You have to know there are 7 notes to a scale that can be numbered 1 thru 7.
2. Watch the first two minutes of the video again
3. A pattern of 2 4 6 2 would mean to play the 2nd note of the scale, then the 4th, then 6th then 2nd again.

That's all there is to it.
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Offline martin_pmd

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2014, 02:12:45 am »
I think I got it... What got me really confused was.. I thought that the 4 number patterns underneath the video was the same ones he played in the video.. Like the 4th pattern, I thought that was the same pattern as 1-3-2-1 : 2-4-3-2 : 3-5-4-3 etc... That was the 4th one underneath the video.. That's not the case right?

Thanks for the help.. I really didn't want to ask for help, I felt real stupid that i couldn't figure it out...=)

Offline TB-AV

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2014, 02:26:40 am »
I didn't watch whole video but the numbers in the patterns are simply scale steps. Not sure if he followed the written material or not.

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Offline 2808jonchan

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2014, 08:55:07 am »
I would like to know what the recommended way of number the notes is:
1. Does one start with number 1 on the lowest root note (in the same way that one practices the scale pattern normally)?
2. Then, what is the number for the next higher octave root note, 1 or 8?
3. How does one number the notes "behind/lower" than the lowest root note and how does one play these?

This problem is better illustrated with the other patterns which have more notes "behind/lower" than the lowest root note. I have an attachment that illustrates this better but I am unable to successfully insert it.

If you watch the video carefully, you can see that Justin starts on the G note with "1".

Or does one keep it simple and simply start at the lowest note in the pattern with number "1"?

Jon

Offline TB-AV

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Offline kebuenokebueno

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2015, 11:01:19 pm »
Hello,

When building melodic patterns, the return of the pattern has to be symmetrical? I take it is since for the other 3 patterns this is applied. But for the pattern (1-3-2-1 : 2-4-3-2 : 3-5-4-3 : etc), on the going back, instead of doing it exactly backwards symmetrical (as the other 3 patterns), he does something different.

What he does:  ...5345 4234 etc
Should be:       ...3453 2342 etc

Am I correct? Thank you

Offline shadowscott007

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2015, 11:53:13 pm »
I think Justin's symmetry is correct.

Lowest to highest walk back down to lowest 1 3 2 1; 3 5 4 3

Then highest to lowest walk back up to highest 3 1 2 3; 5 3 4 5

Those seem exactly backwards or reversed to me, you descend where you climbed and climb where you descended.  To the ear those are reversed.

I would pair what you describe like this;

3453 and 5435

Low walk up to high, jump to low.  Then high walk to low,jump to high.

Having said that, I don't think you have to maintain symmetry.  Might be good to be able to mix and match as long as you doing it purposely, "my goal is to play it like this and I am".

Symmetry isn't really the goal, linking hands, fingers and ears on something more melodic than straight up and down the scales is the point.

Shadow
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Offline Oren

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2015, 06:52:41 pm »
Hi, I've been trying to do these for almost a month with mixed results.  I can do them slowly, but as soon as I try to put any speed in I miss a note, accidentally mute a string with another finger etc.  I'm spending maybe 30mins a day trying to master these, and in some ways I can see it taking away from the rest of my practise.   

Should I be getting really hung up over these or should I move on?  Also, should I be trying to put them to a metronome, or is this for a later stage?

Thanks for your thoughts in advance! :D

Offline Oren

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2015, 12:20:58 pm »
Anyone?  :-[

Offline stitch101

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2015, 05:22:11 pm »
I would let it hold you back. Do the exercise no more than 5 minute. Set a timer and when the 5 minutes
is up go on to the rest of you practicing.

Yes use a metronome. If you have a metronome that can speed up start at a comfortable setting and
increase the speed by 5 bpm every 30 second. When you hit a speed where you are making mistakes
Stop and start over.
Remember "Practice Makes Permanent"  so practicing mistake is learning mistakes.

Offline Oren

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2015, 06:15:38 pm »
Cool, thanks for your advice.  I notice that continuing to practice them is in the practice routine in later stages too. 

When using the metronome, for example on the 3 in a row pattern 123, 234, 345 etc.  Should I be going for one click one pick, or set my metronome to 3 beats in a bar?  Equally, on the 1321, 2432, 3543 ... pattern what should I be aiming for on the metronome?

Thanks  :D :D  !

Offline stitch101

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2015, 06:23:42 pm »
The three in a row sound the best as Triplets. Go back and review Justin's lesson on playing triplets
and try using that as your timing.

http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BC-155-Triplets.php 

Offline bradt

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2015, 11:12:59 pm »
A metronome is great, but I wouldn't worry about the metronome until you have the pattern down. Once you have it so you can play through it smoothly and cleanly at a reasonable pace, then apply the metronome.

I found that, for me at least, using a metronome too soon often encouraged me to focus on keeping up more than playing cleanly and well.

Offline Oren

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2015, 01:03:07 pm »
Thanks for your help here guys.  Still finding these really hard. 

When using a metronome do you think I need to stick to the 'do it 4 times in a row successfully' rule before upping the speed, as with Justin's recommendation on normal scales up and down?  This seems really tricky?  I can't get past about 55/60bpm when picking on 16ths on the 1234, 2345, 3456..., and the 1321, 2432, 3543... .  I've been stuck here for awhile.   

Ty!

Offline Oren

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2015, 03:57:26 pm »
Hmm, am I massively overthinking this exercise?  Is it just supposed to be a simple five minutes a day playing around with the patterns to help build up improvising skills?  Or is it more of a technique exercise in trying to work the patterns up and down like a scale to improve hand coordination?

Thoughts anyone, should I just relax over this haha!

Cheers.

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2015, 07:03:42 pm »
Sorry to bump an old thread but does anyone know if this link still exists, as I can't find it in the indicies or via a general search ?

http://www.justinguitar.com/en/SC-012-PatternStudies.php    it gives a Doh page  :(

Having said it may not even help me, as the problem I have at the moment is working back down from the 2nd interval on the high e string, for the patterns with interval jumps but hey I only started the other night ! I know I've got something similar to these patterns in Guitar Exercise for Dummies but don't want to muddy the waters. Guess I'll try and work it out for myself and shout up if I get stuck  8)

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Offline shadowscott007

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2015, 07:56:43 pm »
Here is a link to the youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c8o2HdUuZ4

And here is a link to the web page...

http://www.justinguitar.com/en/IM-136-BuildingMelodicPatterns.php

I think SC-012 became IM-136 or something like that...
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Offline tobyjenner

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2015, 08:15:25 pm »
Shadow

Thanks for that, may explain why that links no longer working. I was looking through the Help thread of IM 136 when I came across it, as I was trying to work out the reverse patterns and thought they may be included on that page. However, I spent about 15 minutes this evening slow working it out and think I'm getting there, so it will no doubt all turn to rats "wotsits" when I turn on the metronome  ;D Early days though.

Just like the scales with metronome playing 1/8th, the first reverse on the top e just felt wrong (sort of off beat) but now I just ignore it and drop back automatically  8)
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Offline tobyjenner

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2015, 08:01:31 pm »
In the goals for IM3 Justin's suggest we should be applying these patterns to both Maj and Min Pent Scales, plus making up 4 of our own patterns.

I've been basing the 4 patterns in the lessons on the Maj scale and therefore thinking of the scale as
71234567123456712 - obviously starting at the G / 1 as root. So I've extended the patterns up to the e string and then back down to the E, using this annotation. But using them like this doesn't easily equate them to the Min Pent 123451234512.

For example I've already made up a couple of patterns of my own like this :

Up      1-5-3 : 2-6-4 : 3-7-5 : 4-1-6 : 5-2-7 : 6-3-1 : 7-4-2 : 1-5-3 : 2-6-4 : 3-7-5 : 4-1-6 : 5-2-7-1 :                       
Down 1-4-6 : 7-3-5 : 6-2-4 : 5-1-3 : 4-7-2 : 3-6-1 : 2-5-7 : 1-4-6 : 7-3-5 : 6-2-4 : 5-1-3 : 4-7-2 : 3-6-1 :

Up    1-5-3-4 : 2-6-4-5 : 3-7-5-6 : 4-1-6-7 : 5-2-7-1 : 6-3-1-2 : 7-4-2-3 : 1-5-3-4 : 2-6-4-5 : 3-7-5-6 : 4-1-6-7 : 5-2-7-1
Down 1-4-6-5 : 7-3-5-4 : 6-2-4-3 : 5-1-3-2 : 4-7-2-1 : 3-6-1-7 : 2-5-7-6 : 2-4-6-5 : 1-3-5-4 : 7-2-4-3 :  6-1-3-2 : 5-7-2-1

Should I be thinking of the Maj Scale as "note numbers" and not intervals ie 1 to 16 and the Pent as 1 to 10?

Or do I just map out separate patterns for the Min Pent based on Justin's patterns and any I make up and stick to intervals ?

Appreciate any help from those who've not nodded off  ;D

Cheers

Toby
 8)

 
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Offline stitch101

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2015, 09:11:13 pm »
If your goint to stick with intervals (that's what I'd do) I would thing of the minor pent
as 1 b3 4 5 b7 1 and the Major scale as 1 2 3 4 5 6 7.
You trying to make melodic phases. So if you where to play

1-5-3 : 2-6-4 : 3-7-5

You could start on any root note on the neck. If you are playing in G find a G note any G note
and use the intervals from there.
If you are only using pattern one try starting on the G on the D string. If you number the notes
1-16 you will run out of string or you'll have to go up the neck on the e string.

Once you have the intervals in your head don't think of them as numbers but as sounds that
either sound good or of by one tone.

Figure out how to play Do a Deer (from the sound of music.) It is the major scale broken up exactly
the way your are trying to do it and it's already a song. Once you get that down you'll understand
how melodies work. You can play it in any key just start on the root and continue.


 



Offline tobyjenner

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2015, 10:21:25 pm »
Thanks for that Stitch, I think I was heading in that direction, as I'd mapped out a couple of Min Pent patterns to mess with
 (R-5-4 : b3-b7-5 : 4-R-b7 etc for example). Seemed a better way of embedding the intervals in my mind and the gaps between them, which I've been getting slowly.

Justin's lesson is based around the E-Shape G Major so 1 to 16 takes you from 6th string 3rd fret to 1st string 5th fret, so no running out of strings but I like the idea of trying these around the neck on different roots AND thinking of the intervals of sound, as I'm pretty hopeless at ear training/transcribing at the moment.

Guess I'll sit down with the lesson patterns and rewrite them for min pent or just try to play them over that scale and see how it goes.

Thx again.

Toby
 8)
Here since Mar 2013 Completed BC, RUST 1 & 2, IM, MTMS Still on Blues Rhythm and Blues Lead
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Offline stitch101

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Re: IM-136 • Building Melodic Patterns
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2015, 10:40:35 pm »
Toby trust me try figuring out the do a deer song form sound of music.
It will open your mind up to melodies. It uses every note of the major scale and then
jumps up in thirds.

You must have seen the movie the sound of music when you where a kid.
If not here's a clip. I know it's a sappy song but it is exactly what you are learning
on the guitar. Do is 1 ra is 2 me is 3 and so on. Each word is an interval of the scale
just play one note at a time like words.





 

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