Author Topic: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation  (Read 23855 times)

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Offline shadowscott007

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2015, 11:44:58 pm »
Toby,

I wasn't trying to chide anyone.  Nor was I trying to dissuade anyone from working other backing tracks.  And your self quoted statement is correct.

I was just trying to address the discussion about which notes over which chords, and a way to explore that without having to think too much, in the spirit of the lesson.

Assuming you stay in the scale it really isn't about good notes and bad notes, it is about resolved notes and unresolved notes, tension and release, suspense and relief.  So if it sounds like it needs to go somewhere go somewhere, or don't.  Maybe you play a tense note and hold it and on the next beat the harmony moves such that your tense note is resolved.

The thinking part here at this stage is making sure you are staying inside the scale, and thinking about which notes to try.  But not so much about targeting specific notes for specific chords.  Not saying that targeting chord tones is bad notes is bad, it just doesn't seem like that is where this particular lesson was coming from.

Well one man's opinion.

Shadow
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Offline Rossco01

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2015, 08:07:54 am »
Shadow ( or anyone) just one last question what do you mean by resolved and unresolved notes?
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Offline close2u

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2015, 10:12:32 am »
Rossco

Have you played a note over a backing and it screams at you to play another / next note or else the universe will implode?
That is an unresolved note.

Have you played a note over a backing track and it whispers to you 'put your feet up I'll get you a nice mug of hot chocolate'?
That is a resolved note.

:)

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2015, 10:14:00 am »
Shadow - Just to let you know, no offense taken here, I was cool with what you said  :) Maybe just a poor choice of words and capitalization on my part, so sorry for that. 8)
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Offline Rossco01

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2015, 04:39:51 pm »
You know what Close that explanation made sense straight away
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Offline Dr Winterbourne

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2015, 06:23:36 pm »
Can I just say that a looper pedal is a superb tool for practicing all this stuff
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Offline Rossco01

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2015, 08:22:58 pm »
Second that Dr  Winterbourne got mine last month and love recording chord progressions and soloing over them.
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Offline tobyjenner

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2015, 09:45:02 am »
A very quick question, that's been on my mind for a week or two. Should I be sticking to the suggested E shape Major scale fingering, when improvising at this level ?
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Offline close2u

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2015, 10:42:37 am »
Yes, 'master it' (by which I mean know it inside out, back to front and all the way around)  before moving to the next

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2015, 02:07:55 pm »
Close

Thanks for that. I've found some good interval combinations around those little clusters - R(4th string) 3rd 4th (3rd string) and 5th 7th (2nd string) R (1st string) and found that working the 1st and 2nd strings were easier using fingers 1 and 2 (and maybe playing the 2nd interval with the middle finger and sliding back to root) than playing similar shapes on the 4th and 3rd strings.  :(

Combinations around the R 3rd 4th and that box pattern 3rd 5th 6th R 2nd felt more comfortable using Index Middle and Ring, while I lost the plot using my pinkie! No problems playing the scale just impro'ing :)

Guess I need to work on my dexterity, using the ring and pinkie more effectively now I've found some nice sounding patterns.

Cheers

Toby
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Offline shadowscott007

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2015, 04:58:29 pm »
Toby,

Take quick peek at IM-133 with regard to what you are wresting with.  Read the text.  Watch the vid.

You will have judge where you stand with regard to having the scale well memorized with the IM-123 fingerings, and whether you have achieved what it is all about, getting the scale well internalized.

Appears to me you are on the cusp between the two lessons insofar as improvisation goes.  Between memorizing the scale and using the scale.  The text and the video sound to me like they are speaking directly to your last post.  Maybe time to go to 124.

That is an unsolicted opinion, so feel free to discount it at your discretion.

Shadow
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Offline Dr Winterbourne

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2015, 07:00:48 pm »
When I was at this stage the Wish You Were Here solo taught me some interesting licks which found their way into my improve.
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Offline tobyjenner

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2015, 07:50:10 pm »
@DR - that's a useful suggestion, as its one my loooonnng playlist!

@Shadow

Many thanks for pointing me in that direction. Looks like I've already started digging my escape tunnel from those scale 'boxes'! I'm pretty confident with the E Shape scale, as it was some thing I knew before starting the BC and it was something I used as a warm up (root 12th to Open to 12th) for a while and before starting Justin's various finger exercises instead. But it has come along a hell of a lot more since starting the IM in April.

As you can see I'm starting  to see the scale in intervals and not finger positions, thanks to Stitch and those box diagrams, and that seems to help a lot when impro'ing.  Certainly watching the Im133 vid helped, as Justin covered a few of the patterns I'd 'discovered'.

For example I might be sitting in that 7 R 3 4 box for a while and then go R 3 5 7 R and then loiter in the 5 7 R triangle before working back. So finger wise I've recently been using fingers 1 and 2 but if I've been messing on one string, I'll use the 'scale' fingering eg 4th string 6 7 R using fingers 1 3 4, 3rd string 2 3 4 using the same fingers or 1st string 7 R 2 where I'll use fingers 1 2 4 or 1 2 slide.

As I'm still struggling big style with 16th Accents it may be a while before I start IM3, so I think it would be safe to experiment with what I'm doing at present BUT ALSO trying playing those 4th and 3rd string patterns using my 3rd and 4th fingers. Ok in the real world of solo's I'd be unlikely to do that but it should be a good workout for those 'weaker' (in my case) fingers.

One thing that video did demystify for me is that there is no right fingering, its the notes that count. That make so much sense now, to when I was learning songs/riffs by fret positions years ago and wondering what fingers I should have been using. Anyway that's all in the past and now I'm hopefully learning to play the guitar and not just songs!!

I've another question on this subject but will probably drop it into the GQ sections, as it might muddy this lesson specific thread. Need to think carefully about how to phrase it and also see if I can fathom out an answer without the need to post but I think its one you'll be able to help with.

Anyway you've been a great help as usual so have another Good Vibe man!

Cheers

Toby
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Offline TokyoGuitar

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2015, 11:47:25 am »
As silly as it may sound, Justin's advice to use the bottom strings only has made a HUGE difference!

I used to be obsessed with using all the notes in a scale (all 6 strings) when trying to (poorly) improvise a solo. I could never figure out why I was so slow, and why the solo sounded so bad, etc...

Just using the bottom two or three strings, and knowing exactly where the root notes are, has blown the chains off my fingers. SO much more time between notes...SO much more ability to listen to the notes I'm playing instead of panicking about getting to the next note on time...SO much more enjoyable :)

Anyway, just an observation I thought worth repeating.
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Offline jhob

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2020, 12:50:21 pm »
Anyone if the Jam Modes guitar vol 1 backing tracks from Justin's guitar jams (https://justinguitarjams.com/collections/guitar/products/jam-modes-vol-i) site would be suitable for improvising the major scale over or are these for more advanced stuff?

If not can anyone suggest where I could get some other backing tracks from?  Just like a bit more variety for stuff to play along with.  I've tried a few things from YouTube.

Thanks!

John

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Offline jeff00

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2021, 07:00:57 am »
What to do if a the same note consistently sounds bad in a scale?

When improvising the G major scale in pattern 1, I can't seem to get the note C (third highest string, 5th fret) to sound good. It doesn't seem to matter when in the backing track I play it, or even if I don't use a backing track at all. It just sounds cringey when I play it. I've even tried to start my improvisations on that note and build around it, but every time I go back to it it doesn't seem to fit.

My guitar is in tune, and  I'm fretting the note properly. It seems to sound right if I'm straight up playing the  plain old scale up and down, but other than that I can't seem to make it fit in any improvisation.

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2021, 07:16:53 am »
Jeff

Could be the chords in the backing track progression are clashing with the C. Are you using the tracks Justin provides of something else. Which chord are you playing the C note over ?

Other possible causes could be fretting too hard as too much pressure will cause the note to be sharp.

Cheers

Toby
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Offline stitch101

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #42 on: April 14, 2021, 04:41:18 pm »
Jeff
C is the 4th interval of the G major and the 4th and 7th are the trouble makers of the
major scale. This is why the major pentatonic scale was invented, it does away with
both.
This doesn't mean you can't use either of these notes it just mean they have their
place and as you found out don't always fit in the big picture.
Try and target the C when the C chord is playing in the backing track and taget the
chord tones C D and G.
Also use it as a passing note when playing over the other chords.

Offline batwoman

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2021, 03:02:34 am »
Can't find the right place to  post this, sorry mods  :(

Major Scale Maestro series. Lesson Major Scale in 3rds.

If you look at Pattern 1, it has a repeat at the beginning of the second line. Pattern 2 there is no repeat at the beginning of the second line. I don't understand why Pattern 1 has a repeat at the beginning of the second line. Why? 

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Offline stitch101

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2021, 03:29:41 am »
Not exactly sure what you are asking abkut a repeat of the second line.
If you're talking about the 5 4 2, 5 4 2 and 5 4 2 on the A D and G string.
In pattern 2 you have to take in consideration that it starts on the D string and
two frets up so the  B string (being tuned as a third) comes into play so the
repeat would be 7 7 5,  8 7 5 and 8 7 5 on the G B and e string.

If I'm out to lunch let me know and I see if i can help.
The two pattern have the same notes just on a different part of the neck and two
higher notes and missing the lowest root.

Offline batwoman

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #45 on: April 15, 2021, 04:26:43 am »
Not exactly sure what you are asking abkut a repeat of the second line.
If you're talking about the 5 4 2, 5 4 2 and 5 4 2 on the A D and G string.
In pattern 2 you have to take in consideration that it starts on the D string and
two frets up so the  B string (being tuned as a third) comes into play so the
repeat would be 7 7 5,  8 7 5 and 8 7 5 on the G B and e string.

If I'm out to lunch let me know and I see if i can help.
The two pattern have the same notes just on a different part of the neck and two
higher notes and missing the lowest root.

Maybe I asked the question the wrong way stitch. I understand the patterns and where they are on the fret, so the tab is fine.

My question is about the repeat signs at the start of the bar/s. I've circled what I'm asking about. Why does Pattern 1 have a repeat at the start of bar 5?   In Pattern 2, bar 13 there is no repeat. Surely we play the ascending notes, turn around, then descend and then repeat the pattern for as long as we like? I don't understand why Pattern 1 has us repeat the descending pattern. 

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Offline stitch101

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #46 on: April 15, 2021, 05:36:09 am »
Ok my bad. I think it's a typo on the tab sheet.
There shouldn't be one on the second line in pattern one. Good catch I never noticed
it when I looked at the tab the first time.
I'm sure now that you pointed it out it should be fixed on the web site.


Offline batwoman

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Re: IM-123 • Major Scale Pattern 1 - Basic Improvisation
« Reply #47 on: April 15, 2021, 06:19:19 am »
Ok my bad. I think it's a typo on the tab sheet.
There shouldn't be one on the second line in pattern one. Good catch I never noticed
it when I looked at the tab the first time.
I'm sure now that you pointed it out it should be fixed on the web site.

Thanks stitch. It was doing my head in. I'll put a comment on the website. I appreciate you getting back to me.
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