Author Topic: Singing 101  (Read 60958 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tourniquet

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • Stadium Superstar
  • *****
  • Posts: 3258
  • Good Vibes 75
  • Time exists in abundance until it runs out
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #75 on: November 24, 2012, 02:38:39 pm »
Keep working with that and aim for 100% accuracy to level 6 at least, 10 eventually.

Your note perception seems fit for purpose though, have a listen to your last recording, play the notes you're calling and see if you can hear the difference when recorded. If you can it may be down to the vibrations in your head when you sing throwing off your perception of the note.
see if you can find the means to monitor your own voice live (karaoke system or might be able to do it with a microphone and headphones into your computer if it's set right) the sound output from the headphones should override those vibrations to give you a better sense of the note.
       Road Case        Singing Primer guide

Offline TB-AV

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12698
  • Good Vibes 331
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #76 on: November 24, 2012, 03:09:27 pm »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31MrCSM6a7I

You are constricting your vocal chords. You are singing with what he calls the "tight voice".

You have little air and constricted airway and stiff vocal chords. You need to fix all that.
Gone

Offline pevsfreedom

  • Pub Night Playa
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
  • Good Vibes 2
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #77 on: December 07, 2012, 08:24:17 pm »
I once heard an interview with someone who was in the studio with Jimi Hendrix. He was telling about how Jimi was ashamed of his own voice and had to sing behind a cardboard barrier at times so nobody could see him. I wish I still had those interviews. Had an amazing unreleased rehearsal of Angel on it where instead of singing "Angel came down from heaven yesterday, stayed with me just long enough to rescue me" he sang "stayed with me just long enough for afternoon tea."

What makes a good singer really though? Somehow I don't think Jimi or Neil Young would have made it past auditions on American Idol. On the other side of that coin, I don't think and American Idols will be heard on the radio in 100 years from now.

I have that version. It's an acoustic version. Drop me a PM and your e-mail and I'll e-mail you the mp3 (if you want). I'm a huge Hendrix nerd. Bob Dylan was actually Jimi's inspiration to sing. He figured since Bob was so terrible at it and people loved him, he could do it too.

Offline TB-AV

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • All Time Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 12698
  • Good Vibes 331
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #78 on: December 08, 2012, 04:49:13 am »
That was most likely an Eddie Kramer interview.
Gone

Offline Hollywood

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1750
  • Good Vibes 43
    • Official Website
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #79 on: January 31, 2013, 01:59:21 am »
I have a couple of questions which have probably been answered on the forum at some point. 

1. I just recently started conquering my fear of singing.  Recently as in maybe 2 weeks ago.  Right now it's just in front of my mom, but I'm getting there.  She says I sing well, and I feel like I sing fairly well (though I sound weird to myself at this point).  I've been playing guitar off and on for 7 years, and I can play and sing at the same time fairly well, I think, though it's a lot easier for me to do easy songs or songs that I really know the lyrics to.  At this point, do you think I'd be better off just practicing singing along with songs and get more used to my voice, or also playing along on the guitar to get better at doing both?  I would think a nice mix of both would be best, but I'd like other opinions. 

2. I haven't been singing long enough to really figure out what my voice is like, but once I decide to go at it professionally, I think I'd do rock music.  My favorite music is classic rock.  Are there any exercises or anything to help make your voice more suited to a particular genre, or to emulate a particular artist?  And does the music you listen to influence how your voice sounds?  If so, to what extent, generally?
Frontwoman of alt-rock band Lighting Matches - debut album "Against The Flame"
www.LightingMatchesMusic.com
www.Facebook.com/LightingMatchesMusic

Debut solo EP "Destination Sunday" (Rachel White)

Offline Tourniquet

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • Stadium Superstar
  • *****
  • Posts: 3258
  • Good Vibes 75
  • Time exists in abundance until it runs out
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #80 on: January 31, 2013, 08:36:02 am »
1: both.
practice or learn new vocal techniques in isolation so there's no distractions.
Those new techniques then need to be applied while playing.

2: you could try to blend vocal fry into your higher registers for a rougher tone.
You can try to emulate the techniques of a particular artist, but unless you're already close to their tone it's not something you'll get close to.
       Road Case        Singing Primer guide

Offline Hollywood

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1750
  • Good Vibes 43
    • Official Website
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #81 on: January 31, 2013, 05:22:27 pm »
Thanks!  On that note, does anyone happen to have any experience using online vocal coaches?  I've seen some on YouTube, but haven't used any of the videos yet.  I'm sure it's better to have an in-person coach so they can work with you directly, but until you have one, are online videos effective for vocal techniques?  (Justin doesn't have any vocal videos, correct?)

How do you know if you're close to an artist's tone?  I know that when I sing along to the original song, singing to Bon Jovi songs sounds a lot better than Keith Urban songs...  ::)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 08:01:02 pm by Hollywood »
Frontwoman of alt-rock band Lighting Matches - debut album "Against The Flame"
www.LightingMatchesMusic.com
www.Facebook.com/LightingMatchesMusic

Debut solo EP "Destination Sunday" (Rachel White)

Offline Tourniquet

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • Stadium Superstar
  • *****
  • Posts: 3258
  • Good Vibes 75
  • Time exists in abundance until it runs out
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #82 on: January 31, 2013, 08:28:13 pm »
I've used the online vocal coaching videos linked in the first post of this thread.
So long as you can be self critical (or hear constructive criticism from others) it can be very effective.
same with trying to match tones (or at least find out what songs your voice suits),
       Road Case        Singing Primer guide

Offline Hollywood

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1750
  • Good Vibes 43
    • Official Website
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #83 on: January 31, 2013, 09:51:17 pm »
Oh, gosh... I read through this entire thread and somehow still managed to miss your links.   :o  haha
I'll check 'em out. 

I suppose I'll probably post in the critique thread once I get a song down well and recorded.  Thanks!



Edit:  I think I need a little clarification here... is tone what you sound like, like just the general sound of your voice, or what notes you're able to hit...?  I can't find anything online that really explains that. 
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 05:46:27 pm by Hollywood »
Frontwoman of alt-rock band Lighting Matches - debut album "Against The Flame"
www.LightingMatchesMusic.com
www.Facebook.com/LightingMatchesMusic

Debut solo EP "Destination Sunday" (Rachel White)

Offline parkdogs

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 7
  • Good Vibes 1
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #84 on: April 18, 2013, 09:48:40 pm »
If you wish to learn to sing there is an advert at the bottom of the page from "The Singing Zone" of which I have been a member for almost 2 years. The Singing Zone is where I found a reference to JG.

I am a very old beginner with guitar and would eventually like to play and sing :)

Offline Tourniquet

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • Stadium Superstar
  • *****
  • Posts: 3258
  • Good Vibes 75
  • Time exists in abundance until it runs out
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #85 on: April 19, 2013, 12:00:16 am »
May or may not be an effective product, but absolutely everything about that website screams "Infomercial", very much the wrong approach to advertising these days.
Making their forum public access would probably be advisable too, hiding it in the purchase hardly inspires confidence.

http://www.youtube.com/user/PerBristow?feature=watch seems to be the only samples for any that want to see if his teaching style/personality appeals.
       Road Case        Singing Primer guide

Offline Hollywood

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1750
  • Good Vibes 43
    • Official Website
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #86 on: June 04, 2013, 08:24:48 pm »
Do you any of you  have any thoughts on how you know when you can stop taking voice lessons?  I asked my voice coach about it, and the answer pretty much sounded liek I should take them forever.  I've made a lot of progress, and I know I'm not perfect yet, but there's got to be a point where performing live is better than taking more lessons.  At what point is that?  I've done all the basics - proper breathing and posture, relaxing muscles, techniques to hit higher and lower notes, improving volume, getting a better rock sound, etc. 

I just don't know how many more lessons I need for right now.  I mean, obviously it's always good to learn more, but I can't take them forever, and I don't know of anyone who does.  When do I take a break?
Frontwoman of alt-rock band Lighting Matches - debut album "Against The Flame"
www.LightingMatchesMusic.com
www.Facebook.com/LightingMatchesMusic

Debut solo EP "Destination Sunday" (Rachel White)

Offline Tourniquet

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • Stadium Superstar
  • *****
  • Posts: 3258
  • Good Vibes 75
  • Time exists in abundance until it runs out
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #87 on: June 04, 2013, 09:22:14 pm »
There's always room for improvement but there's also a point of diminishing returns.
If you feel you have achieved what you wanted and can continue your own training as needed, job done.
       Road Case        Singing Primer guide

Offline PattheBunny

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1255
  • Good Vibes 84
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #88 on: June 04, 2013, 11:07:22 pm »
I work hard on singing because the odds are I am going to have to sell my own songs, and also I enjoy it tremendously. I'm not the best,  I'm not the worst.  But I sing by thinking about what the song means.   I probably sing songs for an hour at least a day. I sing in front of an audience about once a week.   I listen to other singers for several hours as well.   I notice who moves me and who doesn't and try to understand why.    I'm going toward my fourth year doing this.   It's been hard work and I can see my progress.   I've taken lessons and also worked with a vocal coach (my sister as it happens).  I don't do vocal exercises and I don't mess with my breathing I just let it happen. 

Here's the thing:   Singing isn't really a technical thing in the end, it's expressing and communicating.  Expressing through the words and music of a song what  that song means.  Do you ever think about your songs that way?  What the words mean, who is saying them, who are they being said to?   Can you talk the lyrics in a way that makes sense, sounds natural and has meaning?   

Better to focus on the song and the words and what it means first and then let that meaning carry how you sing it.  Alot of singing is developing the correct experience of singing naturally and fluidly and without effort  -- I hardly want to call it muscle memory because you should not be forcing anything when you sing and your vocal chords are as delicate as a butterfly's wings, well not quite but close.  They are paper thin tissue, not "chords of muscle".   You develop more skill as a singer from the neurological pathways that are created as you sing a sing, not from doing tons of "exercises."   

Breathing funny to sing is waste of time.   Pushing your diaphram around, singing meaningless exercises, belting just because you can,  I just don't believe in it.   It's good to be generous with your breathing and to think about who you are singing to and where they are, but letting your voice out is more valuable than trying to construct it like with strange ritual exercises.   Making a lot of sound that means nothing is not singing in my opinion. 

So I don't think you need a lot of lessons at this point.  You just need to sing the same song until you know it as well as you know your name.   And most people are not really moved by technique they are moved by the honest expression of what you are saying when you sing a sing.   So when you sing a song, make sure you know what the words mean to you and put the intention to express that meaning out there.  Don't imitate another performer.    Make the song your own.    Performing is not better than lessons, it's a whole other world.  If you are game, go for it.  You will find out what you need to know when you do it.  It's not always what you imagine though.  Sometimes it's better.  Sometimes it's, well, if you survive it, it will make you a better singer.    And it will make clear that it's about singing the song, not just singing.

Pat
Realism is relative.

Offline Tourniquet

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • Stadium Superstar
  • *****
  • Posts: 3258
  • Good Vibes 75
  • Time exists in abundance until it runs out
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #89 on: June 05, 2013, 07:26:09 am »
Singing requires technique development the same as any other musical instrument, only difference is singing comes with a lifetime of bad habits already working against us. Technique development is first and foremost about fixing those bad habits to allow effortless singing.
       Road Case        Singing Primer guide

Offline PattheBunny

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1255
  • Good Vibes 84
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #90 on: June 05, 2013, 08:20:05 am »
Singing requires technique development the same as any other musical instrument, only difference is singing comes with a lifetime of bad habits already working against us. Technique development is first and foremost about fixing those bad habits to allow effortless singing.

What do you mean a lifetime of bad habits working against us?   How does technique and what kind of technique repairs them? 
Realism is relative.

Offline mumbles

  • Arena Rocker
  • *****
  • Posts: 710
  • Good Vibes 25
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #91 on: June 05, 2013, 04:31:58 pm »
Do you any of you  have any thoughts on how you know when you can stop taking voice lessons?

Annie Lennox still uses a vocal coach. I suspect John Lee Hooker never did. I don't think there's a definitive answer.

I guess the time to stop taking lessons is when they don't help you anymore.

Ultimately, the room for improvement is the biggest room in the world.

Offline Hollywood

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1750
  • Good Vibes 43
    • Official Website
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #92 on: June 05, 2013, 04:33:40 pm »
Just had a thought.  Maybe a better way to word it is how much of what I need to learn comes through practice and experience, and how much comes through a voice coach?
Frontwoman of alt-rock band Lighting Matches - debut album "Against The Flame"
www.LightingMatchesMusic.com
www.Facebook.com/LightingMatchesMusic

Debut solo EP "Destination Sunday" (Rachel White)

Offline Chantal

  • Arena Rocker
  • *****
  • Posts: 712
  • Good Vibes 40
  • Live today as if there's no tomorrow.
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #93 on: June 05, 2013, 07:23:13 pm »
Funny this topic should wander in this direction... I came here wanting to ask how many lessons should be enough to see some decent improvement. I got a tax return and I am very insecure about my voice so I am considering taking some lessons, but I can't afford having a vocal coach for a long time. I can sing on key though My pitch is sometimes off, but my voice sounds weak and lazy, so I'll definitely need to work on my breathing technique and I'd like to improve my range and accuracy too.
Thank you for the music!

My Roadcase

Offline PattheBunny

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1255
  • Good Vibes 84
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #94 on: June 05, 2013, 08:03:32 pm »


Ultimately, the room for improvement is the biggest room in the world.

You speak the truth!
Realism is relative.

Offline Tourniquet

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • Stadium Superstar
  • *****
  • Posts: 3258
  • Good Vibes 75
  • Time exists in abundance until it runs out
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #95 on: June 05, 2013, 09:28:56 pm »
What do you mean a lifetime of bad habits working against us?   How does technique and what kind of technique repairs them? 

Perhaps it's better to look at it as potential to be gained rather than issues to be fixed.
We are an essentially lazy species that will usually choose the path of least resistance, that includes using our lungs and voice. we're born with a powerful set of lungs and the instinct to use them to their full potential. as we get older we learn to breath shallow, tense muscles in the face and neck distorting tone and use pressure rather than resonance to create volume.

have a watch of these two short videos from aussie vocal coach and give the exercises a try. it was enlightening for me at any rate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h9V-52F6TM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni9HP9hpqjQ
       Road Case        Singing Primer guide

Offline Tourniquet

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • Stadium Superstar
  • *****
  • Posts: 3258
  • Good Vibes 75
  • Time exists in abundance until it runs out
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #96 on: June 05, 2013, 09:44:52 pm »
Funny this topic should wander in this direction... I came here wanting to ask how many lessons should be enough to see some decent improvement. I got a tax return and I am very insecure about my voice so I am considering taking some lessons, but I can't afford having a vocal coach for a long time. I can sing on key though My pitch is sometimes off, but my voice sounds weak and lazy, so I'll definitely need to work on my breathing technique and I'd like to improve my range and accuracy too.

Depends on the individual potential for improvement and the coaches ability to get at it.
I'd expect to see some significant improvements within a few lessons and occasionally surprising yourself for brief moments when everything clicks into place.
       Road Case        Singing Primer guide

Offline misterg

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 2437
  • Good Vibes 125
  • Wales, UK
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #97 on: June 05, 2013, 10:05:41 pm »
Funny this topic should wander in this direction... I came here wanting to ask how many lessons should be enough to see some decent improvement. I got a tax return and I am very insecure about my voice so I am considering taking some lessons, but I can't afford having a vocal coach for a long time. I can sing on key though My pitch is sometimes off, but my voice sounds weak and lazy, so I'll definitely need to work on my breathing technique and I'd like to improve my range and accuracy too.

A big confession here - I've been going to voice lessons for the last two and a bit months - 1/2 an hour a week  :-[

I have to say it's been fantastically useful and uplifting. I wouldn't say I'm any better a singer (I'm not!) but I understand much better what my good and bad areas are, how I *should* be singing, and that has made me more confident (not confident enough, but better).  I can see that I've just scratched the surface of what is possible. Objectively, my vocal range has increased from 5 or so notes to pretty much a full octave (this was a surprise in itself - I thought I had a *much* wider range than that!).

If I were to stop now, I know there are things that I could continue with to carry on improving.

So I would say go for it - even if you can only go for a couple of months.

Offline mumbles

  • Arena Rocker
  • *****
  • Posts: 710
  • Good Vibes 25
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #98 on: June 06, 2013, 04:21:16 pm »
Just had a thought.  Maybe a better way to word it is how much of what I need to learn comes through practice and experience, and how much comes through a voice coach?

My belief is that what you need to learn is partly shaped by what you want to do. Many, many rock guitarists get by with pentatonic scales and the mixolydian mode. They might go further learning more as guitarists but that may not contribute very much to their music if it's never used.

Stevie Wonder, on the other hand, seems to explore lots of scales and modes  - if only briefly - and uses much of it to add variety to his songs.

How broad do you need your range to be? Your teacher can give you the exercises to expand your range - it's your practice (and experience of applying teaching) that will actually get you there. Ditto variety of timbre, pitch accuracy etc. I don't think it's possible to separate development and learning in the way you're asking.

ETA:

What you might do is move to a point where you find resources to learn from yourself and become less dependent on a teacher for your learning.

Offline Hollywood

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1750
  • Good Vibes 43
    • Official Website
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #99 on: August 04, 2013, 03:42:32 am »
I have 2 questions that I've asked on other singing forums but am still not clear on:

1) What are open and closed vowels, and how do you know which ones "work for you"? 

2) What does it mean if someone's "phonation sounds relaxed"?
Frontwoman of alt-rock band Lighting Matches - debut album "Against The Flame"
www.LightingMatchesMusic.com
www.Facebook.com/LightingMatchesMusic

Debut solo EP "Destination Sunday" (Rachel White)

 

Get The Forum As A Mobile App