Author Topic: Singing 101  (Read 37531 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Asjh89

  • Guest
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2010, 11:58:27 am »
I agree with everything you said. Bob Dylan is one of my favorite singers.

But back to Chris Cornell: I never implied he didn't practice. Obviously he did. But what's more likely than him singing scales along with a piano is him singing along to Led Zeppelin records.

You may be able to develop a good singing voice that way, maybe, but without vocal exercises you're more likely to sound like a drunk doing kareoke. If your voice happens to be able to develop that way without hitting any walls, thats good, but you're not making your life any easier than an athlete who doesn't work out. In my work people think I'm fast, but I'm not fast - I just don't cut corners, so at the end of the night it looks like I was fast because I actually got the job done.

I don't encourage hours of practice, I think a 30min warm-up is suffecient, past that its all about singing. So in saying that (again), I agree with you in that I don't think Chris Cornell spent hours at a piano - though I know of some very amazing vocalists who have spent considerable time practicing technique (more than I would or encourage for non classical music).

Offline Tourniquet

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • Stadium Superstar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4702
  • Good Vibes 72
  • Time exists in abundance until it runs out
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2010, 01:06:17 pm »
Missed the earlier replies

Do you really think that a frog can turn into a princess?  I really sound like a frog that croaked and is almost dead.  I honestly don't think I have the potential.  When I go around do my "womanly" chores like cooking, laundry and crap to boot I sing and everyone says don't sing pulleeze!  It's really annoying they say!

With all the negativity surrounding my vocal renderings it leaves me with no confidence at all!

I think that anyone can improve if they put beneficial effort in. I'm not saying that everyone can develop to a point that they rival professionals, but that whatever you start with can be improved upon in practically every way.
Singing along to songs or while you do other things can help with the words and tones of a song but it doesn't do all that much to improve technique.
It's a common error to think that because we speak every day, maybe even sing along with the radio that what we have is the best we can offer. One of the clearest examples I can offer is that of a baby. When a baby opens it's mouth to scream it gets heard. even with a tiny set of lungs an zero training any baby can better the vocal projection of most adults... baby's just doing what comes naturally, it's the adults that have learned to be lazy over a lifetime.
Try to find a moments peace to try a few vocal exercises, nothing wrong with criticism so long as it's constructive but I don't think what you're getting is.

Neil Young, Bob Dylan and JJ Cale all have voices which would disqualify them as 'good' singers by TB's definition. Billie Holliday had a range of barely an octave. They are all arguably 'great' singers. 'America's Got Talent' is full of ostensibly 'good' singers, yet they are generally simply dreadful to listen to.
Technique is an important part of being able to sing but it doesn't always trump musical intuition or character. One needs to find and develop one's own expression, given the flaws and restrictions that limit technical ability.

You're mixing your mods ;)
Such is the reason I didn't try to define the qualities of a great singer, all bets are off when it comes to great.

But back to Chris Cornell: I never implied he didn't practice. Obviously he did. But what's more likely than him singing scales along with a piano is him singing along to Led Zeppelin records.
Possible, Singing along the recordings offers less benefit than you might think though as the original recording covers weaknesses in your own voice. It's more common though to learn and refine vocals as part of a small band doing local pubs and clubs, the PA system gives them a true representation of their tone and lots of small gigs means lots of practical practice.

I agree with TB's definition of a good singer, however I meet all those requirements and I would not consider myself a "good" singer. 

Still not TB ;)
If you meet that standard but don't consider yourself good, what's missing? (or could you be overly self critical)

@asjh89: fair comments
       Road Case        Singing Primer guide

Offline licksnkicks

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 3562
  • Good Vibes 53
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2010, 01:59:20 pm »
Interesting topic.  ;)

Everyone CAN sing, whether or not they are good at it, is a different matter. 

That's the million $ question!!

I think I might be better as a back up singer!  Ya that would be the ticket.  Someplace to hide my not so fabulous voice.  As a matter of fact 4 girlfriends and I had a few tipples and we sang barbershop quartet style and I sang harmony and it really wasn't too bad or maybe it was the alcohol that made us sound better. I think it was a Beatles song that we did.  I can't remember but I do remember that we did sound not too shabby!  There's something about singing harmony that's very appealing to me.
MG50DFX Marshall amp, Vox DA5 CL amp, Gibson SG Standard, Parker Nitefly electric/accoustic guitar,  Parker P-38 SA electric/accoustic guitar,  Academy electric custom guitar,  0 tolerance 4 stupidity

flyhead

  • Guest
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2010, 04:51:46 pm »
Quote
You're mixing your mods
Apologies, T, it's just that you all look the same to me.

jimiclaptoncarl

  • Guest
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2010, 04:56:30 pm »

I agree with TB's definition of a good singer, however I meet all those requirements and I would not consider myself a "good" singer. 

If you meet that standard but don't consider yourself good, what's missing? (or could you be overly self critical)

No not overly self critical.. there are some people who are born with voices to sing solo, out in front. My voice is not one that people enjoy listening to. The highest level I may sing is in a choir or backup vocals, where my voice won't stand out as much.

Offline SJP

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1354
  • Good Vibes 10
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2010, 05:28:34 pm »
No way I'd knock technique but the acid test is obviously the capacity to stimulate emotion. That's a matter of personal taste, but to me the essential building blocks are authenticity and substance. So i get the same buzz from the technical expertise of Aretha Franklin as I do the barking onslaught of Mark E. Smith. And why winning a TV talent competition is about as much use as a Anne Frank's drumkit.

Paladin117

  • Guest
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2010, 08:35:41 pm »
Possible, Singing along the recordings offers less benefit than you might think though as the original recording covers weaknesses in your own voice.

You can say literally that exact same thing about playing guitar along with a record. And yet, how do we learn?

Quote
It's more common though to learn and refine vocals as part of a small band doing local pubs and clubs, the PA system gives them a true representation of their tone and lots of small gigs means lots of practical practice.

Of course. But that's not really practice, is it? It's performance. If you perform a lot you get better at performing. It's true of any instrument.

Asjh89

  • Guest
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2010, 12:09:51 am »
No way I'd knock technique but the acid test is obviously the capacity to stimulate emotion. That's a matter of personal taste, but to me the essential building blocks are authenticity and substance. So i get the same buzz from the technical expertise of Aretha Franklin as I do the barking onslaught of Mark E. Smith. And why winning a TV talent competition is about as much use as a Anne Frank's drumkit.

Definitely true, but its hard to say what is authentic or what has substance - thats also really subjective.

Offline SJP

  • Stadium Superstar
  • ******
  • Posts: 1354
  • Good Vibes 10
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2010, 08:45:26 am »
Oh yeah, the subjective part is a given and that's why I said 'to me...'.

We're never going to be able to produce an objective pie chart on the subject. Thankfully.

Offline Tourniquet

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • Stadium Superstar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4702
  • Good Vibes 72
  • Time exists in abundance until it runs out
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2010, 04:38:53 pm »
You can say literally that exact same thing about playing guitar along with a record. And yet, how do we learn?

I can only speak for myself, but I learn by listening to a section and then trying to repeat it. It's rare if ever that i'll play along to the original track if i'm trying to learn it.

Of course. But that's not really practice, is it? It's performance. If you perform a lot you get better at performing. It's true of any instrument.

Call it what you will, it amounts to a lot of time put in productively honing an ability.
       Road Case        Singing Primer guide

Paladin117

  • Guest
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2010, 08:17:34 am »
I can only speak for myself, but I learn by listening to a section and then trying to repeat it. It's rare if ever that i'll play along to the original track if i'm trying to learn it.

What the xx--xx? Are you for real? What do you do after you learn it, then? Just play it by yourself? How the xx--xx can you even play guitar without playing along with records. I seriously cannot even comprehend what you're telling me.

Quote
Call it what you will, it amounts to a lot of time put in productively honing an ability.

Yeah.

flyhead

  • Guest
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2010, 09:01:59 am »
Quote
What the xx--xx? Are you for real? ( ) I seriously cannot even comprehend what you're telling me.
He probably isn't for real, and it's your inner thoughts that are confusing you. In fact, this comment is merely a projection of your inner reasoning responding to your inquiry.

Offline Tourniquet

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • Stadium Superstar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4702
  • Good Vibes 72
  • Time exists in abundance until it runs out
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2010, 10:27:53 am »
What do you do after you learn it, then? Just play it by yourself?

Nope. I play it..... and sing it. A chord progression on the guitar can quickly get monotonous, throw vocals on top and it never gets dull.

How can you even play guitar without playing along with records.


If I really want to play along with a song I'll find, or more often make, a backing track.
       Road Case        Singing Primer guide

Paladin117

  • Guest
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2010, 07:40:59 pm »
A chord progression on the guitar can quickly get monotonous, throw vocals on top and it never gets dull.

So what, you only play open chord strumming songs? I guess that makes sense. The music I play would not sound that cool with just a guitar.

Offline Tourniquet

  • Honorable Ex-Mod
  • Stadium Superstar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4702
  • Good Vibes 72
  • Time exists in abundance until it runs out
Re: Singing 101
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2010, 08:51:18 pm »
Open or barre chords, strumming or fingerstyle.... rhythm at any rate. Playing lead and singing at the same time is a pretty rare field that seems mostly limited to a call and response style (playing lead fills between the vocal lines)

The music I play would not sound that cool with just a guitar.

Not the sort to do an "Unplugged" album eh ;)
       Road Case        Singing Primer guide

 

Get The Forum As A Mobile App