Author Topic: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord  (Read 185963 times)

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Offline justinguitar

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BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« on: October 07, 2009, 12:09:55 pm »
« Last Edit: October 07, 2009, 12:40:18 pm by justinguitar »
"You can get help from teachers, but you are going to have to learn a lot by yourself, sitting alone in a room." Dr. Seuss

Offline Tim Mason

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2014, 03:29:47 pm »
Most of the question that are asked in this thread are answered in the fuller lesson Justin gives on E-shaped barre chords here : http://justinguitar.com/en/IM-111-EShapeMajorMinorBarreChords.php. He recommends it during the 'Dreaded F Chord' lesson, and it's well worth visiting for the beginner.

Offline Rolandson

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2014, 10:01:15 am »
10 month and I still have pauses in a song when I change to the F chord. I can change to to F chord over 60 times but it's still slow for songs. Good thing is that I can change it without looking on my hand but still it's not good enough. Any advice besides the one minute changes?

Offline Tim Mason

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2014, 10:06:20 am »
Slow down the tempo for the song, then build up. But the F chord takes time, takes time, takes time ...

Offline Rolandson

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2014, 09:41:13 am »
those are my one minute changes.
F sounds better.
What do you thing?



Offline Rolandson

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2014, 09:03:07 am »
Ok. I did my one miute changes every day for 2 weeks or more. played everyday the F chord. I thought yesterday I will never canplay that F chord good.

Today I played people live here by Rise gainst and hurt by Johnny cash.
I don't know what happened but I can play the F chord pretty good without looking.

Did anybody of you had the same expirience?

Offline Rossco01

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2014, 09:13:16 am »
Good on you Rolandson. I have had this experience on previous chords most notably C which I found a bit tricky...the muscle memory just wouldn't stick for ages. There does seem to come that point where it just clicks and from then on things get a lot easier. Throughout the course I've found the 1 min changes will only take me a certain distance to learning a chord and then I need to incorporate into a song that uses it a lot so I can also "switch off" from thinking about making the switch and the hand try to do it on its own.

I have to admit though that the F chord (and I'm not even trying to do a full barre just the mini) is still proving difficult for me. I think part of my problem is that although I'm up around the 60 changes min (although not consistently with quality) my other chords are so far ahead in fluency that when I incorporate it into a song I'm still searching for it and its a lot slower to move to.

Still everyone says its hard and I know based on other chords that I'll get there and then I'll wondered why I found it so hard.
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Offline Rolandson

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2014, 10:34:48 am »
The F chord on the second fret with a capo sounds clear. The F on the first fret not so much. It sounds good a few times but not all the time especially the B and E chord.

Offline H M Murdock

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2014, 02:35:25 am »
I like this lesson even though it's the hardest I've done so far. I'm struggling with the F but I also had the same thing with changing to a G quickly and managed to crack that one in the end through sheer practice and stubborn refusal to be beaten by it so it looks like gritting the teeth and getting on with it for me.

Some of the things in the text on the lesson that have definitely helped me:-

Low action - I have 3 guitars, one of which had the action really lowered by the local shop (for £10) and it really helps in all chord changes, especially this one. I'm still very slow with the F but on the other 2 guitars far slower still.

Try it higher up the fretboard - This worked for me really well in the beginning and I found it much easier to get the pressure down on the barre. I still have some way to go in finger strength for the F but trying higher up at first seems to warm the muscles up before practicing at fret one. Works for me.

Sound before speed - I know it's been said over and over but it's so true with this one. I spent a lot of time just making sure all the strings rang out clearly each time no matter how slow I was. The speed will come with time, probably with one of those Eureka moments like the G chord did.
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Offline mike42

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2014, 04:08:11 am »
H M Murdock,

That's all good advice and exactly what I would recommend. Eliminate any setup problems; start with barres up at the 5th-7th fret area; and take your time, understanding that it's going to be a while before the F chord feels natural.

This is probably the most frustrating lesson for people working through the BC. It takes a combination of finger strength and dexterity, and it's going to take a while before most people are able to play the full F cleanly.

Offline Tim Mason

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2014, 06:37:48 am »
Just to say that once you get there, it's really worth all the investment. I've fallen in love with barre chords.

Offline H M Murdock

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2014, 10:21:56 pm »
Thanks for the positive feedback  ;D

Being temporarily between jobs with plenty of spare time I decided to have a "bite the bullet day" and got up this morning with the determination to crack the F chord. All day I've done 15mins each hour to practice the F chord (plenty of decent breaks between) from 10am this morning through til 6pm tonight. Simple plan really, do 15mins then walk away for 45mins at least. By 6pm I was getting the F chord first time every time but it's been tough, I won't deny that, and in my own case it took a lot of effort.

Some may question why push myself so hard? For me it's a tough one to learn and I have no idea whether I could be working again at the drop of a hat (you know agency work can be like) so whilst I had the time and opportunity to put the hard work in I went for it. For all I know I could get a phone call tomorrow and be on long shifts that may limit my practice time so may as well get this one under my belt whilst time is on my side.

I'm a very happy boy with the progress tonight. Sure, I still can't form an F chord with any speed but I'll work on that in each practice session for a few minutes and it'll come. It's right what everyone says, hang in there and it'll happen  ;D
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Offline sswissam

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2014, 09:18:09 pm »
Hey guys, i found it more  comfortable to raise my first finger a bit so im pushing the first 2 strings with my first knuckle which results in my first finger sticking up a bit but the chord sounds clear that way.This seems a little easier for me though it still took about 2-3 weeks to get it right.
My question is am it doing it wrong? Is this a bad habit that will make problems for me later?
Would appreciate the help.

Offline FPS

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2014, 09:33:26 pm »
That's the way I get all the strings ring clearly as welll. Don't think it's a bad habit. It's rather taking into account inidvidual anatomics.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 11:11:18 pm by FPS »

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2014, 10:46:25 pm »
Guys might be worth your while taking a quick peak at the Intermediate Course and this longer lesson
http://www.justinguitar.com/en/IM-111-EShapeMajorMinorBarreChords.php
I adopted the raised first finger to get things ringing clearer but dropped the position considerably after watching this more in depth lesson on the barre  8)
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Offline mike42

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2014, 01:04:21 am »
My finger hangs quite a ways off the fretboard and it has caused no problems. I have fairly large hands and it takes far less pressure to get the notes ringing when I move my finger up. If it works for you I wouldn't worry about it.

Offline Drubbing

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2014, 02:01:52 am »
Being temporarily between jobs with plenty of spare time I decided to have a "bite the bullet day" and got up this morning with the determination to crack the F chord. All day I've done 15mins each hour to practice the F chord


A whole day? That's positively Black Devilish…

It'll take more than that, look on it as a medium term project and cut yourself some slack. I plugged away at the F for well over 6 months. I could form and strum the chord fairly quickly, but changing to it from another, or trying to use it in songs was the roadblock for a long time. Just keep it in the practice schedule.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 12:40:10 pm by Drubbing »

Offline TheCasual

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2014, 12:12:19 pm »
I agree with Drubbing.

It took me around 10 months to get open chords to barre chords solid and natural.

Don't tire your hands out to much by focusing to much on barre chords.
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Offline H M Murdock

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2014, 05:22:12 pm »
I know what you mean guys, I just wanted to get the fingering right. As for the speed? That'll take quite a while I'd guess. I achieved what I set out to do that day, getting it sounding right. Now I'll just incorporate a chord change involving F into each 1 minute chord change practice and speed will come with time.

If it takes 10 months or 10 years to be as quick as other chords isn't the  issue for me, I know I can play it cleanly now and that was my initial goal. It kind of breaks a barrier when you crack something that's known to be tough and boosts the confidence.

Whether it be the F chord or anything else, persevere and you get there. One day it'll suddenly just click into place and I'll be able to do the F quickly. You'll know when that day comes when you see a news headline saying "Guitarist arrested for doing naked cartwheels with a flying V strapped to his back" :)
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Offline yonda1960

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2014, 07:07:49 pm »
Finally nailed quick, accurate, changes to the F chord today. Been at it solidly for a couple of months now, and its always been a bit of problem. Key for me was to relax and form the shape in the air before placing it down.

Now I can finally play some of those songs in stages 7 & 8 of the beginners songbook without my F chord sounding rubbish.

Offline blueguern

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2014, 10:47:05 pm »
Hey Guys, I seem to have got the F barre down OK now but I have been trying to do the F chord that barres just the B and high E string and am fining it hard to get those two strings to ring out nice and clean. Any tips or tricks for me to try. I can do it but my chord shape is pretty bad with my hand layindgdown towards the headstock. It does ring out Ok but not sure if this is OK or there is something better.
I know Justin says if it sounds good........ but it just looks wrong ............. HELP.

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2014, 10:51:17 pm »
Blue

As your obviously in BC6 at the moment, you may not looked ahead to the intermediate course. This is the first lesson and Justin spends about 20 minutes on the E shaped Barre - F maj to us BCers - and its a more in depth lesson to the one in the BC.

http://www.justinguitar.com/en/IM-111-EShapeMajorMinorBarreChords.php

Hope this helps.....it did for me in the end 8)
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Offline blueguern

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2014, 09:16:17 pm »
Hey Toby, thanks for your comments. It's not the full barre chord that I have any problem with it's the small F chord, described by Justin as "old school". It's just my first finger on the high E and B strings that I am having a bit of trouble with. I watched the video you suggested and then went and watched the F chord video. I raced upstairs to the music room and tried to copy Justin;s hand shape. Not possible, my old fingers just will not copy his hand shape. I suppose I will just have to continue doing it my way, it works but it doesn't look much like Justin's grip.

Offline stitch101

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2014, 09:32:53 pm »
Blue can you post a picture of the way your are playing chord. As long as you are getting the note to
ring out and your not hurting your hand it should be fine.

Offline mike42

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Re: BC-161 • The Dreaded F Chord
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2014, 01:36:46 am »
Hi blue,

A picture would be helpful so we know how your hand position looks right now, but something to try is to move your thumb a little closer to the headstock (so it's around the first fret area) and rotate your hand so your 1st finger is pointing close to vertical.

Also, it's fine if your 1st finger touches the G string since your second finger is fretting the G at the second fret. I usually try to position my 1st finger so the first knuckle is about at the edge of the fretboard. If you get that positioning right it should take a lot less pressure to get those 2 barred notes ringing out at once.

I have no idea if either of these tips will solve your particular issue, but I hope it helps!

 

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