Author Topic: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT  (Read 9829 times)

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julienarrijs

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PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« on: September 24, 2009, 09:27:05 pm »
hey guys

well i've posted something about this a few weeks back, saying i was wanting to swap the pup in my prs se singlecut...and well i've done a lot of reaserch since and let me tell you this....it is a pain in the ass , there's way too many pups to choose from, i wish it would be much simple:) i've listened to million of sound clips and stuff ...and it's kinda hard to get an accurate idea on how it would sound on my guitar (my prs is a mahogany body and neck with a rosewood fretboard...it's a solid body guitar, lp looking like but that has the thickness of a gibson sg)

so far i've narowed it to 2 configurations from dimarzio

a) Mo'joe bridge. Paf Joe Neck
b) D sonic bridge. Liquifire Neck

i considered a seymoure duncan configurtion sh6 distortion bridge - SH1 neck but i find it a tad too agressive for my taste

what i'm looking for tonewise is versatility, i'm playing stuff like neoclassical, early metallica stuff, ratm, joe satriani, jason becker, some john mayer kind of blues, i'm not trying to emulate the tone of these bands and styles though, i'm looking for an articulate tone, somehow not too specific but the pickups would have to handle goin from clean to crunch to high gain while still being articulate and defined...since my stock pups are getting quiet muddy on high gain settings.

what do you think of that ? any other suggestions ?

Offline Dan Graves

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2009, 10:16:01 pm »
Articulate tone = Bareknuckle pickups, a set of Mules to be exact.

julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2009, 09:45:52 am »
i must say that i knew by name the "bare knuckles "pups, but everytime i browsed their website i didn't really feel like it was the real deal...until i listened to sound clips yesterday...and this sounds really good

i like both (from what i heard on recordings) the mule and ss rebel yell. do you have any experience with those ?

Online LievenDV

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2009, 10:57:17 am »
the website itself does not represent the quality; it are indeed all the sound samples by the devoted users you need to check
(in the end, that's what matters most)
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Offline agordon

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2009, 01:11:04 pm »
julienarrijs: I feel your pain with the pu selections.  Too many out there.  I went crazy trying to figure out what to put in my warmoth strat when I built it.  I wound up having to install 2 different pu's in both the neck and middle position before getting it right.  I think your just going to have to take your best guess knowing that you may have to change them out.  Just dont cut the leads too short when you install them so you can have the option to resale the pu's if you need too.

So you think the stock SE pu's are too muddy?  I really like how they sound personally.  Im very interested in your findings though because it may influence me to swap mine out too.  I wonder how a SD pearly gates or Gibson classic '57 would sound in it?
Guitars: Taylor 314CE, Guild D50 Dreadnought, Alvarez RD8, Gibson LP Std. Trad. Pro, Warmoth Custom Strat, MIA Strat, MIM Tele, PRS SE Singlecut
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julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2009, 03:02:02 pm »
to lieven : well you're totally right about that, plus it kinda feels nice to buy something that has been hand made and that is not some generic junk you bought falling for the marketing speach that came along it.

to anthony : well you're right about the fact that they're good pups, i actually like em for stuff like heavy blues, and even the clean are intersting when you back down the volume nob, though i'd like something a bit more articulate and that handles better real high gain setting, i think when playing stuff like early metallica (orion main riffs for example) or some machine head riffs (slanderous, ...) the stock pups are loosing a lot of articulation and definition.. but i will still store them somewhere

I think i have a winner, i fell for the Steve Stevens 'REBEL YELL' humbucker , i might place on order on them sometimes soon.

this might interest  you , it's a sound clip made with the very same guitar we both own, the PRS SE SINGLECUT loaded with rebel yell pups

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17047.0, it makes me think of zack wylde tone when he played on a gibson SG

there are options on the pup i don't really get : what should i order for my prs

Spacing : 50 or 53mm ?
conductor : 4 or braided 2 ?
Leg : long 1/2" or short 1/4"

and what those things refer to ?

and about the installation itself, do you think i should get them installed for me or should i give it a try by myself...since it shouldn't be rocket science...but i still don't know a thing about it.

Offline Dan Graves

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2009, 03:41:56 pm »
In reverse :

Spacing is the width of your bridge pickup, either 50 or 53mm, so measure it from left to right and see what it says.

Conductor for is the wiring, 4 means you have all the wires to do a coilsplit or out of phase setup *needs either extra switches or push/pull or push/push pots*, 2 conductor is straight up humbucker wiring with no options for the above.
I got the 4 conductor, in case i ever wanted a coilsplit or coiltap on my Rebel Yells.

Legs depends on how fat your guitar body is.
Long is for Les Pauls and similar, short is for Fender.
Easiest way to determine that is to compare to a Les Paul and a Strat.
Whichever is the closest match wins, so to speak.

As for the Rebel Yells, i love mine, but John Mayer style blues...
I dunno man, i never got them sounding quite that good doing blues, which is why i suggested the Mules.
If you are in doubt, email or PM Tim (Mills) from the BKP forum, he's the owner and builder of these pickups, he will have a good idea of what would suit your needs best.
He answers all emails and PM's, and his advice always worked perfect for me.

Here's what Rebel Yells do best, IMHO :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIJYa6nnIYk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v90A9P8D_a0
Yes, that's me  ;D

Offline agordon

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2009, 05:43:49 pm »
Those pickups do sound good, but how do they sound on a clean or low gain setting?  Like Dan said, not sure you will get that Mayer tone with these.

Id get the 4 conductor so you can have the option to split them later down the road if you want.  And you will need the short leg mounting.  Im not sure about the pickup width.

If your somewhat handy you should be able to install the pickups yourself.  I installed some for the very first time with very little (as in 2 or 3 times) previous soldering experience.
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julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2009, 09:27:25 pm »
you guys are right about the mayer blues thing.
when i bought the prs i wanted a mean axe, since i had a strat and didn't feel very inspired to play stuff like RATM, Machinhead, ... on it...so i told myself that i would stick to the strat for cleans and get an other axe for heavier stuff...hence my attraction to the rebel yells....but meanwhile i came across demo of dimarzio pups http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoXRJ1QwNTs (the mo joe/paf joe config) that seemed to offer the best of both world..and since i'm spending most of time on the prs i thought it'b quiet cool .... but the thing i'm affraid of would be to get pups like the mule and thinking afterwards that it's not mean enough for my taste.

to dan : thanks for all the info, i've mailed the guy from bareknuckles explaining him what i was after...what's the guitar you're playing on the vids ? a gibby ?

to anthony: well soldering doesn't scare me...it's more the question of where to weld wires on and stuff ...i looked at the schematics on the bareknuckles website and it seemed quiet vague to me

Offline Dan Graves

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2009, 09:37:42 pm »
Epiphone, Custom shop.

Offline agordon

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2009, 10:30:05 pm »
You dont need to completely wire everything, your just adding the pu's.  There are two main wires (each a twisted pair) that come off the selector switch.  On mine 1 is white and the other is yellow.  Each twisted pair main wire has 2 internal wires - 1 black and 1 white.  Just cut these a few inches from where they terminate on the switch and solder the new pu wires on to these.  Looks like PRS uses black as ground and white as hot.  Just match hot and ground to the new pu's.

If your unsure you can wire them with wire nuts just to test it and then solder them when you know its right.
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Offline Dan Graves

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2009, 11:21:24 pm »
julien, that vid is useless for anything other than getting an idea of the sort of tone, as i don't speak any french.
But the tone that guy is getting can be had with a set of Mules.
And harder stuff too.

Several different examples of what the mules can do :

Clip by Tim and HJM : http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=143.0

? : http://gsqd.com/mp3s/MuleTT.mp3

Heavier_Then_Hell's Ozzy clip : http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8638.0

? : http://soundcloud.com/indysmith/test-recording-les-paul-blackstar-ht5c-sm57 (Blackstar HT-5 combo ? Interesting)

Clips by _tom_ , almost all Mule clips : http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=870027
And more by _tom_ : http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=493678&songID=7291917
Tom does a lot of metal/stoner metal with his mules, but also a lot of bluesy stuff.
And the list goes on.


julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2009, 09:17:51 am »
thanks dan , that was VERY useful,i spent some time listening to all those clips.. and man tom's quiet of a player huh. Sick tone....and i see your point...the mules get the job done..and i must say they seem to deliver a much warmer and vintage tone than the dimarzio mo and paf joe.
 
nevertheless...based on what i've heard i still find the rebel yell more appealing

did you hear those clips ? http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3433.0....i kinda like it on clean settings !

i think i'll need to process the info for a couple of days before i make up my mind for good and make the order ...in a perfect world, i'd load my prs with RY and i'd get an agile that i'd load with mules..but maybe i'll do that later too .

to anthony : well it sounds much easier that way...that i think i can do. i'll give it a shot....and save 50 euros in the process :)

julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2009, 10:39:27 am »
that steve stevens video is quiet sick too...i'm assuming he uses the rebel yell : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFdPGD-enZo&feature=PlayList&p=5743AE1F07D9EC83&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=26

Offline Dan Graves

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2009, 03:37:10 pm »
That last video, those are not Rebel Yells.
And yes, i know all the RY clips, i also (obviously) know what these are capable of, and again, they have a sick tone, but you will not get a John Mayer type of sound from them.
Best you can do is a very gritty, sharp blues.
One way you MIGHT coax that kind of tone from a Rebel Yell is to get the 4 conductor wiring and then coilsplit both humbuckers.
You'd lose the hum cancelling in split modes, but it could make a lot of difference.
You could ask around the BKP forum and see if anyone has any good experiences to share when it comes to coilsplitting a set of Rebel Yells.

julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2009, 08:19:32 pm »
well yeah i understand i won't get even close to a mayer tone with the RY.
I played on my strat today, worked on some john mayer blues solo (everyday i got the blues...great solo) and well it felt great....so i don't think i would need to split coil the RY, i think i might just load the PRS with RY and play the mayer stuff on my strat. i'll sleep on that but i think it might be where i'll head.

Offline agordon

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2009, 11:34:48 pm »
Hey, Id be interested in your take on that Mayer song.  I really like his blues style.

I too like Dan's idea of splitting the coils.  That would require changing out the pots and much more soldering though.  Definitely worth considering.
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Offline Dan Graves

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2009, 12:31:27 am »
Depends on how he wants to do it, Anthony.
In any case, we're looking at 2-4 extra solder points, 6 at most, depending on the how and what.
It's not that much more complicated, you just need to put the right wire on the right tab on the push/pull or push/push pot... or (mini) toggle switch, if he would go that route, but that would mean extra drilling.

Offline TB-AV

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2009, 01:50:45 am »
It's quite possible you already have in your guitar what you want.

If it's muddy try wiring them in parallel. See if don't like that.

Can be done with a switch as well.
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Offline agordon

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2009, 04:15:37 am »
Very true Dan, but soldering on those push/pull pots is not an easy task.  I was able to solder the standard pots fairly easily, but the terminals on those push/pull pots are so dang small and the control cavity always seems just small enough to give you problems.

How do those pu's sound when they are split?
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Offline Dan Graves

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2009, 05:05:48 am »
Almost like single coils ?
Dunno, i can't really define the difference too well, it's something that needs to be heard IMHO.
I'll see if i can dig up some soundclips.

julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2009, 07:50:34 pm »
well i have a super distortion ( single coil sized) in my strat bridge position that i connected to a pull/push tone control ( i didn't do it myself, i paid 50 euros to have it done) and i does sound like a single coil, it sounds just as good , if not better than the original pup when i tap it...

but i'm not sure i want to go down that road on the prs..it would mean changing the tone and vol control...trying to do it myself or having to pay between 50 to 70 bucks to get it done, plus the cost of the pots (i assume it would be around 20 bucks each)

I'd be looking at 40 to a 100 bucks on top of 200 for the pup....i might probably get the mule and a boss sd1 for the same price, if not less, without all the trouble....but most of all i'm not sure i'm looking for the single coil tone on my PRS, since i already have a strat. But anyways i'll still get the 4 wires option so i can eventually do it if i feel like it

what is parallel wiring ? and what are the pro's and con's of it ? and what does it involve on the technical (soldering) side ? ..and it not so much that they get muddy but they loose a lot of articulation and definition on very high gain settings and drop tunings.i'm not sure it would do something about it, would it ? 

i still don't know which pup to get still (if i'm going down that road) i've listened to all the clips from tom Dan mentionned, and the guy can get quiet a tone, i'm assuming he uses an OD pedal, but still , and the tone is somehow fatter then with the rebel yells

and to anthony ; i'll record the solo when i'll have worked it throuh, i've completed like 3/4 of it so far and i'll send the link to you. how's you version of slow dancing in a burning room goin ?


julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2009, 08:59:51 pm »
to dan : i just got an answer from Tim, he suggested to get a RY in the bridge and a Mule in the neck.

Offline Dan Graves

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2009, 09:24:28 pm »
If that's what Tim says, i'd follow the advice.
He's advised me well with both the Rebel Yells and Miracle Man set i use, both where perfect for my needs.
Maybe you could ask him to try and match the Rebel Yell with the Mule when ordering, but i'm assuming that if he says it's ok, it'd work fine.
Have you decided on what kind of custom covers (if any) you would get ?

julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2009, 11:00:13 pm »
well.... i like the aged nickel and the black satin :)

 

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