Author Topic: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT  (Read 9753 times)

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Offline Dan Graves

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2009, 11:02:50 pm »
Don't get both, that'd look silly  :D ;)

julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2009, 11:05:53 pm »
that would not be far away from the tremonti style...you get an open pole on the bridge and a chrome one on the neck..can get sillier than that :)

Offline agordon

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2009, 03:18:48 am »
and to anthony ; i'll record the solo when i'll have worked it throuh, i've completed like 3/4 of it so far and i'll send the link to you. how's you version of slow dancing in a burning room goin ?
Havent worked on slow dancing in a burning room much at all lately.  Ive always wanted to learn everyday I have the blues song, but never taken the time.  Now you will save me lots of time.   ;D ;D  Let me know when you get it ready.
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julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2009, 08:41:02 am »
well i'm just working on the solo, u'll be on your own for the rythm part :)

Offline TB-AV

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2009, 03:08:07 pm »
"what is parallel wiring ? and what are the pro's and con's of it ?"

In a humbucker you have two coils. they can be connected in series ( typical ) or parallel ( not so typical ).

Both circuits are humbucking as opposed to simply dropping a coil to get single coil.

Pickups are inductors electrically speaking. That is what makes them different from each other. They of course also have capacitance and resistance and magnets differences, but at the end of the day you are hearing an electrical circuit.

This circuit can be formed in many ways. Rewinding a new pickup. Going with some sort of active circuit. Even changing a cable. Cables have no magic in them, it's simply the capacitance change people hear provided the cable is well made.

All pickups have a frequency response and towards the end of that ( the higher frequencies ) there is a bump. A small area where frequencies are enhanced. This bump can vary in intensity. Same as boosting a band on an EQ. Often times just before this bump is a slight dip. After the bump which is known as the resonant frequency then the signal rolls off very fast. This area of the frequency spectrum encompasses several musical notes. Changing capacitance moves this entire area of dip-bump-rolloff either higher of lower in the entire spectrum.

So for instance let's say setup A covered the area 3K to 4K. Setup B might cover 3.5K to 4.5K. So the dip/bump/rolloff effects different frequencies just like an EQ.

Going to parallel reduces the inductance but increases the resonant peak by 2 and remains humbucking. Single coil increases them by almost 1.5 but is not humbucking.

I have read reports of a guitarist/enginner that did quite a bit of experimenting in changing pickups and eventually found that parallel cut the mud out and I believe he said approached the tone of much older pickups as opposed to newer ones.

It's a simple thing to do if you have 4 wires. Normally the two coils are connected as follows. (minus)coil1(Plus)---(minus)coil2(plus). That leaves you with one (minus) and one (plus) to connect to output.

That might involve 4 wires Red(minus) Black(plus) White(minus) Green(plus). So black and white hook together and read and green go to output.

To change you disconnect all 4 wires. Then connect red/white and black/green. Those two sets of wires go to output. Red/white to ground and Black/green to Hot.

It's pretty much the cheapest and easiest thing you can do.

Terms I've heard associated with it. Clear, open, expansive, etc.

HTH, but by all means if you are going to all the trouble and expense to add new picks, at least add those options in with switches.

Here are some diagrams.

http://www.1728.com/guitar.htm


I think your pickups ( in an effort to play hard driving music ) are simply too hot. The best Bar-B-Q is not made with the biggest match to light the fire so to speak.


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julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2009, 03:22:43 pm »
well thanks for the information, i'll definitely spend some time reading the link you provided and i will eventually probably have some new questions for you !

but this sounds tempting since i'm in no rush to get new pups...i'll probably give it a trial shot at a piece of junk i own ( that i cannot call a guitar) that i use for decoration...a 50 bucks china made strat looking guitar...i'll probably mess with it a little to get some soldering and wiring experience before i give it a shot on my prs.

well i'll read all that stuff for now and i'll make up my mind

thanks

julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2009, 11:12:39 am »
ok i've went through the info you gave me and it sounds interesting

nevertheless, my axe is fitted with stock pups that are not likely to have a 4wire setting ( since it's an import PRS not an american)

i don't really feel confident about drilling a hole on my guitar to install the dpdt switch to go from series to parallel wiring.

if i get it right parallel wiring would get me a brighter tone with the cons of less output volume...wich is not exactly what i'm looking for since i want the same amout of output volume and overdrive with more articulation in the tone

so i think i'll get the bareknuckles pups  for that purpose (the high output volume with the articulation) but they'll come with 4 wires wich leaves the option open for parallel wiring....that i find interesting tonewise...so are there any other solutions for the switch, like would it be possible not to drill a hole in my guitar and to connect to a push/pull pot or something similar ?


Offline LievenDV

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2009, 11:46:14 am »


i don't really feel confident about drilling a hole on my guitar to install the dpdt switch to go from series to parallel wiring.
-->like would it be possible not to drill a hole in my guitar and to connect to a push/pull pot or something similar ?

jup; seen guitars with 2 buckers, both with a tone control pot that could be pushed an pulled for coil tap for example
invisible to the eye, no extra drilling but bit more complicated wiring.. (just an example, not exactly what you asked for)

anything is possible; bu some parts/brands are more suitable for some scenario's.
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Offline TB-AV

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2009, 01:34:45 pm »
"if i get it right parallel wiring would get me a brighter tone with the cons of less output volume...wich is not exactly what i'm looking for since i want the same amout of output volume and overdrive with more articulation in the tone"

Not exactly. The volume decrease will be less of an issue. The tone response will contain less bass information. Bass is where the mud is.

Thus you may well achieve the articulation you seek with similar output.

Taking the cavity cover off your guitar will reveal how many wires rather quickly.



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julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2009, 11:22:15 am »
well as suspected, i have a 2 wires configuration.

i think i'm going to place an order on the bareknuckles..since i'm  convinced that they are great pickups...but i'll make sure to get the 4wires setting to be able to go parallel wiring if i feel like it

Offline TB-AV

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2009, 01:36:42 pm »
Good idea.

If you do like it and ever want to use those old ones in parallel. You can still do it but you have to unsolder and resolder the actual coil wires where they connect on the pickup.
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julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2009, 09:10:51 am »
allright, order placed on bknuckles pups, a rebel yell (bridge) and a mule (neck) combo !

Offline Dan Graves

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2009, 09:25:42 am »
Welcome to the BKP club then  ;D

julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2009, 12:21:22 pm »
well ty,

i'm just afraid it'll turn to a major GAS and that i'll soon decide to change the pups on my strat too :)

Offline LievenDV

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2009, 05:57:16 pm »
the moment you discover that your tone control and especially your volume knob have a use now, yes, GAS will be ignited
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julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2009, 08:25:47 pm »
i kinda was affraid of that :)
i can't be a hundred percent sure since i haven't installed the BKP yet so there's still a chance ( a small one i reckon) that i might not spend most my cash on guitar gear.

julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2009, 09:36:28 pm »
allright so i've got my BKP this morning.

the packaging is just really cool. especially the rebell yell box !
the goodies are just too good to be true...one set of string wich each pup..that's quiet nice !

the thing is that i ordered wide spacing pups (according to my measures the actual spacing on my prs is 52mm, agordon confirmed that) while specifying the model and brand of my guitar with my order, and i got delivered std spacing pups, both of them...wich is quiet odd....but i'm guessing that those guys know what they doing. Nevertheless i mailed Tim from BKP's to ask him if i need to worry about it or not. What do you guys think about that..i've read that even though the string spacing is wider on PRS, american PRS do come with std spacing pups as stock ??

Offline Dan Graves

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2009, 09:44:03 pm »
Hmmm, not quite sure on that one, i'd wait and see what Tim says.
Or just take out the bridge pickup (don't desolder, just take it out) and put in the RY to see if it fits.
Cause there's no arguing with a fitting pickup  ;D

Offline agordon

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2009, 05:36:15 am »
Yeah, if it physically fits, then its probably ok.  another thing is hold the BKP pickup above the strings (strings installed on guitar).  Line one side of the poles up on the low E and see if the pole pieces sit about in the middle of each string.

Dont forget to do a before and after recording of that guitar.  I really want to hear the difference to see if I do the same.   ;) ;)  Thanks bunches.
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julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #44 on: October 17, 2009, 05:08:41 pm »
well tim (the boss from BKP) said he did it on purpose, since i do have a stoptail and that the poles would sit outside the string spacing with wide spacing pups...and i guess he knows what he's talking about...but i'll still check if the poles are in the middle of the string.
 
now that i have the pups...comes the task of installing them. Wich i decided to do myself :)

but i don't really know how to do that...i'm assuming that i would have to remove the strings from the guitar...remove the pups...solder them. replace them.set the pups height , restring the guitar and that would be it

the things that i do not really know about is how io install the springs around the screws...i guess there are things to do to prevent the spring to jump in my eyes. Will i need to solder the wires on the volume pot or to the wires in my prs ?

if you guys could think of steps that i should follow to ensure that the pups will be installed properly i'd really appreciate.

to agordon...i recorded the john mayer thing this morning...and i also tried to record my PRS with stock pups to compare before and after to pups upgrade...but since i'm recording using my camera phone, i can't seem to record with high distortion settings..it gets inaudible...i'll try to get some other recording device and see how it goes.

Offline Dan Graves

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #45 on: October 17, 2009, 06:46:09 pm »
Take the pickup ring off of the body (don't unscrew the pickups, ONLY the ring !), then unscrew the old pickups and take out the pickup screws and springs, take the BKP's, put the new screws that came with them through the ring, put the springs over the screws, and then screw the whole thing into the BKP's.
That's all there is to doing that.
Then put the braided wires into the cavities and thread them to the electroics chamber, and put the rings with pickups back onto the body.

Soldering wise : use desoldering braid to take off the old pickups (don't just cut their wires to save time!!), and use good quality solder to solder in the new BKP's.
There should be a soldering schematic with the BKP's, if not, check their website, or the PRS website if need be.

This video could possibly be useful, start viewing after 6:30  : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB9la3yeUqw
Or check some of the other videos on replacing pickups on youtube, like this one by Seymour Duncan : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEbAOxc5UTk
« Last Edit: October 17, 2009, 06:53:11 pm by Dan Graves »

Offline agordon

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2009, 08:34:36 pm »
Dan, do you think it makes a noticeable difference by soldering directly to the switch rather than cutting the existing pu wires and soldering to them?  The reason I ask is because I did this when I built my warmoth strat.  First I had the wires directly to the switch and then cut the pu wires to save time when I replaced the pu.  Honestly I did not notice a difference at all.  I understand the extra solder joint adds resistance and hence voltage drop and all that, but I really wonder if it makes a noticeable difference.  Im not asking because I disagree with you, Im asking because I honestly dont know.  Ive only dealt with the situation one time.

Also, Im not sure if you have seen inside the cavity of this guitar, but all the negative/ground connections go to 1 point on the selector switch.  There are like 4-5 wires connected to 1 small point in the bottom corner of the cavity.  It wont be easy at all to get all those wires back correctly in that small area plus there is lots of existing solder at the junction (at least on mine there is) so you would need one of those solder "suckers" (for lack of better words) to remove all the solder.  I would be torn.  The correct way is to solder directly to the switch, but being an amateur I would think hard about tapping into the existing pu wires.  Any thoughts about this?

julienarrijs: Ill give you a little hint that I learned when building my guitar.  Use some electrical tape to tape the end of the existing pu wires to a long piece of temporary wire.  Pull the temporary wire through the wire way when you pull out the old pu's and leave the temporary wire in there with wire hanging out on both sides of the wire way.  Then tape the open end of the bkp wire to the temporary wire (from top of the guitar) and use the temporary wire to pull the bkp wire through the wire way into the cavity.  I found it very difficult to get the 4-conductor humbucker wire through the wire way without doing this.  I use this method every time now and it saves me headaches.  This is probably not necessary with 2-conductor pu wire.
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Offline Dan Graves

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2009, 09:24:49 pm »
It's mainly just good practice anthony, and it prevents problems with the old wiring.
I've never soldered into old wires, so i have no diea if it would cause issues, but i can see why it could be bad, with multiple solder joints that can go bad, wire that could be burned by resoldering, etc.
And like i said, if you're removing the old pickups, use desoldering braid, it should pick up all the old solder, if you use it the way it's supposed to be used.
Or you could use one of those fancy vacuum desoldering pens like the one i have in the workshop, but it really shouldn't be necessary.

As for hard to reach places in the cavities, you can always unscrew the pots and such and lift them out of the body for soldering.

julienarrijs

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2009, 02:27:54 pm »

Also, Im not sure if you have seen inside the cavity of this guitar, but all the negative/ground connections go to 1 point on the selector switch.  There are like 4-5 wires connected to 1 small point in the bottom corner of the cavity.  It wont be easy at all to get all those wires back correctly in that small area

as you said the wiring schematics in the PRS are quiet a nightmare, especially for people with very little soldering experience. I felt up to the task when I thought it would mean soldering two wires together, but i'm not really sure i want to do this bymyself anymore. I think i'm gonna get it done by someone else with a lil more soldering experience

and thanks dan for the video link, it made everything seems much simpler,from the video i got an accurate idea of what it involves and everything seems quiet easy..but still i don't feel up to the ask when it comes to my guitar soldering schematics.

Offline Dan Graves

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Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2009, 02:37:40 pm »
Then don't do it yourself, let a guitar tech/luthier do it instead.
Worst thing you can do is work on something when you're not confident you can make it work.

 

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