Author Topic: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.  (Read 131855 times)

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Offline Drubbing

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #100 on: July 19, 2014, 03:08:29 am »
6 years at 1-2 hours a day. Something isn't right. You just don't 'forget' how to do basic chords after that time. Even if you have a lay off for a few weeks. He might well be a left-hander in denial...

I just went on holiday for 10 days without playing. My fingers softened up considerably, but apart from that, it's like i never missed a day.

Offline Tim Mason

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #101 on: July 19, 2014, 10:11:36 am »
Quote
Something isn't right

If he's a lefty in denial, you'd expect him to make some progress. And if he has a learning disability, it would surely have shown up in other domains, and he'd know about it. Which leaves the practice schedule.

From what he says, he seems to learn a chord, and then move on to the next one, leaving the first chord aside. If he learns songs as he goes through the book, he won't be doing that; he needs to reactivate the early learning at each session, and songs do that.

Offline Drubbing

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #102 on: July 19, 2014, 10:19:30 am »
6 years. You'd learn something useful in that time. His posts are more relevant for someone playing in their first 12 weeks. Only a pro can help here. He should see a good one. The advice might be to learn another instrument.

Offline Slurpee

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #103 on: July 19, 2014, 02:35:24 pm »
From what he says, he seems to learn a chord, and then move on to the next one, leaving the first chord aside. If he learns songs as he goes through the book, he won't be doing that; he needs to reactivate the early learning at each session, and songs do that.

I don't know, I am at it for a bit over 6 months now and recently took a few weeks off. I lost some progress with the stuff I just started to learn, but all the chords i properly practiced are still there as if nothing happened. There's no way I will ever forget those chords, they are just there. Once you crossed a certain point, they don't just fade away, so I would definitely say there's something else going on.

Either he's got some underlying problems or he doesn't practice as much/frequently as he claims. You could be the slowest learner in the world, after six years of daily practice, you don't just forget how to play the E chord...

Offline TheReplicant

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #104 on: July 19, 2014, 02:54:27 pm »
I'm with Drubbing here. Even a bad practice schedule will bring some results if you're practicing 1-2 hours a day for 6 years.

And he says he forgets how to do chords after a few days if he doesn't play them. Slowing down and fumbling fingers the first few attempts is one thing.......totally forgetting how to play them is another completely.
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Offline Newand(hopefully)willing

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #105 on: July 19, 2014, 03:26:41 pm »
I'm on stage 9 right now after picking up the guitar in mid November. Actually, tomorrow will be exactly 8 months since I've started. That being said, I know that I will need a MINIMUM of one month to consolidate, get some of the songs I've learned sounding presentable (I'm looking at you "Fast Car") and just be comfortable with everything. God knows how long it will take in actuality though.

As for your break neck pace, I'll definitely side with the wiser, more experienced guys on here in saying that you are going too fast. I get that the way in which Justin presents the snippets of knowledge you need to succeed is appealing, and that you can grasp it theoretically in a short amount of time. However, what you need are PRACTICE and CONSISTENCY above all else. Your brain might be able to connect the dots theoretically, but you need to  put in the time and effort to make your guitar playing sound pleasant and be almost effortless. You need to build muscle memory and strength in the muscles of your palm and fingers which you've seldom used for anything until now, and that takes time.

Also, you need to understand that the techniques you are using are a means to an end, not the end itself. Your goal is to be able to play songs. Super lame and simple songs at first, and getting more interesting and complex with each stage. It will turn out ok if you take your time now and devote some time to learning songs from each stage progressively until you get each stage's techniques down. Jumbling up all of the knowledge you have soaked up in such a short time now that you are determined to practice can very well lead to frustration and you giving up since your hands can't possibly keep up with your brain at this point.

As for following Justin's guidelines, the course isn't the holy Bible of guitar newbishnes, but once you take a closer look at it (and part of doing so needs to come from actually experiencing what he is teaching you through hands-on practice) oyu'll see that the lessons are linked and structured in such a way that mastering the first steps allows you to tackle the really hard stuff from a much more prepared starting point.

Take the dreaded F chord for example - right now I am 95% certain that you can't do it properly, if at all. That is not to say you are bad or stupid, it is just physically nigh impossible for you to do it just yet because of the lack of conditioning in your hands.  Assuming you have no prior experience with any instrument, your fingers are simply too weak and unadjusted to make it sound anything near good. That is where the structured lessons come into play - first you have the "omg my fingers hurt so much" stage Justin tries to ease you in as gently as possible with minimal practice time and 3 basic chords. Then you shift between them, working on muscle memory. Then more and more complex chords are introduced which helps stretch and accustom your fingers. Then you get a mini barre as well as a great stretching exercise to help prepare you for the big F.

 Most absolute beginners take at least 3-4 months to get there. It took me 4 and a half months to attempt the F barre chord, and for the first two weeks or so, in spite of all the previous practice, I was HORRIBLE at it. Bad to the point where I seriously doubted I'll ever be able to do it properly. 8 months in and things are going great - I can't really switch it cleanly at speeds of 100+ bpm, but the practice played off and is continuing to do so.

Long story short: commit to practicing, don't rush things, don't be afraid o experiment but generally keep to the well trodden path because it is well trodden for a reason. And, most importantly, learn some of your favorite songs and have fun!

Offline TheCasual

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #106 on: July 19, 2014, 03:41:18 pm »
I took a three month break between the BC and IM and just played songs and noddled around.

It massively helped me. It seem to knit everything together.
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Offline JackSun

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #107 on: July 19, 2014, 04:13:16 pm »
No, I'm not a left hander in denial and I don't seem to have any memory issues apart from forgetting peoples names if I don't see them for a year or two.
I was pretty useless and uncoordinated at any sports, especially if they included a ball.
I don't know if that has any bearing on my ability to play.

I have tried a few songs but I'm not really up to strumming and changing chords at the same time yet.

Think I might give up and take up basket weaving or something  :-[

Offline Tim Mason

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #108 on: July 19, 2014, 04:24:27 pm »
You would be astonished at how people can spend time and learn very little. People can spend 6 years studying a foreign language, and test out at level A1 - which is to say that they get the same result as someone who has never been in a language classroom. They will tell you that they have done all the exercises, but that nothing worked. Or that their teachers were useless. When you look at what's been happening, it's nearly always a question of use, of doing things with the language. In so far as learning an instrument is like learning a language, then learning songs is crucial: the exercises won't fully sink in if you don't make music.

JackSun, I was never much of a sportsman, and I have motor difficulties - getting a cup of coffee across a room is a major operation. But I get the chords in memory. Play some songs, even if you're bumping away at them, and clanging on the changes. If that doesn't get you somewhere, then maybe you should take up the harmonica.

Offline Drubbing

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #109 on: July 20, 2014, 02:14:00 am »

I have tried a few songs but I'm not really up to strumming and changing chords at the same time yet.

Think I might give up and take up basket weaving or something  :-[

I would give guitar up. Seriously. If you cannot change chords while strumming and even struggle with chords on their own after the time you've put in, put it into something else you'd enjoy.

Offline JackSun

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #110 on: July 20, 2014, 03:50:02 pm »
Yeah I think I will  :(

Offline TheReplicant

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #111 on: July 20, 2014, 03:59:53 pm »
You've been at it 6 years.

Why not give it another 6 months and change how you practice before giving up?

For a start, force yourself to strum and change between chords. Some simple chord progressions will do and Justin gives you a few in the Beginner's course. Doesn't matter if you think you can't do them. Just do them.

Say, the chords to Three Little Birds. Practice the chord progressions in that song at half speed doing all down strums - even quarter speed if you have to. The speed doesn't matter. The 'practice' matters. Once you can do it, slowly build up the speed and start learning the lyrics.

Maybe the chord progressions will help you remember the chord shapes and send you on your way to improving. I don't know but I think after 6 years you may as well give it a try.

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Offline samiosh

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #112 on: July 20, 2014, 10:06:14 pm »
I agree with TheReplicant, you spent 6 years trying to learn your own way, so give yourself another 6 months and practice this way: practice 2 chords at a time, meaning don't do any other thing, just practice 2 chords only, let say D to A, practice it until you can change between them without looking then move to another 2 chords like D to E but keep practicing the first one and so one... practice everything with down strums even if it's boring, just stick with it. I know this is not fun but if you spent 6 years practicing and not giving up means that you really love playing guitar so don't give up until you try everyway possible.
Just stick with it, Good luck!

Offline fabi

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #113 on: July 21, 2014, 02:39:18 am »
I'm pretty new at this.  Just a few weeks so idk how much my opinion matters.  But this isn't my first time "trying" to learn guitar - however, it is the first time that I actually feel like I'm making progress on rhythm guitar.

I agree with the previous two posts.  Take two chords and practice between them.  The two things that have helped me the most are the one-minute change exercises and the forced changes exercise.  The first week on the one-minutes, I just played the chord combinations, day in and day out.  By the second week, I made it a point to play "at least" the same number of changes on a chord combination as the previous day.  I would repeat the one-minute exercise on the chords until I had at least the same number of changes as the day before.  If I hit the same max number of changes for three days in a row, then on the fourth day, I made myself practice the two chords until I had at least one more change.

That sounds complicated typing it all out like that but basically, I decided that staying stagnant in my speed for chord  changes was unacceptable.  So, I created a little challenge for myself that forces me to progress in speed from week to week.  (yes, it still gets frustrating when I find myself practicing the same two chords six times in a row just to hit the previous day's number - but, I imagine it's a lot less frustrating than finding myself six months from now still struggling with the speed of those two chord changes.)
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Offline Tim Mason

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #114 on: July 21, 2014, 02:03:42 pm »
Quote
I have tried a few songs but I'm not really up to strumming and changing chords at the same time yet.

Then you are not, in fact, following Justin's course. Look at the practice schedule for Stage 1. He suggests that you should be spending 5 minutes every day working on chord sequences and songs. If you haven't been doing that, you've been missing out one of the most important exercises. (He also says you should double your practice time just noodling and trying things out - so there's more chord sequence time right there).

You're reminding me of those language students I have had who refuse to plunge into the language itself: they don't feel ready. Once I have persuaded them to stand up in front of a class and talk for five minutes, they nearly all take off. Three classes later, they can give a coherent performance of fifteen minutes, and go an encore for questions.

You haven't made progress because you haven't played any music. Go through the Beginner's songbook. Take your time, but do it. If that doesn't get you up to where you can stumble through a three chord song (you'll fluff the changes, like we all do) then by all means take up tatting. It can be a lot of fun.

Offline Rolandson

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #115 on: July 21, 2014, 02:16:19 pm »
I'm at stage 6 right now since December. I always need more time because if I can't play at least 2 songs from beginning to the end perfect I don't go to the next stage or is it better I start with stage 7 now.

Offline TheReplicant

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #116 on: July 21, 2014, 03:10:57 pm »
I'm at stage 6 right now since December. I always need more time because if I can't play at least 2 songs from beginning to the end perfect I don't go to the next stage or is it better I start with stage 7 now.

What I used to do when doing the Beginner's course was learn the songs from the previous stage to what I was doing. For example:

Do stage 1. No songs.
Do stage 2 and learn stage 1 songs.
Do stage 3 and learn stage 2 songs.
etc etc...

This, I think, achieved a few things. Firstly, I could concentrate on getting the chords down and the changes fast enough before attempting songs. Secondly, it kept the chords I'd learnt in the previous stage under my fingers.

Edit: There's a separate forum for posting clips of your progress and covers.
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Offline Drubbing

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #117 on: July 21, 2014, 03:17:15 pm »
I was always 2-3 stages behind on songs. if i was on stage 6, I'd be playing stage 3-4 songs. Doesn't matter, so long as you're learning them.

Offline Rolandson

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #118 on: July 21, 2014, 06:57:54 pm »


Thanks you and I will start stage 7 tomorrow and play songs from stage 6.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 08:00:36 am by close2u »

Offline Twitch9292

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #119 on: September 18, 2014, 06:51:08 pm »
I was watching beginners training lesson i think 119, and chord sequences was mentioned as a good technique, but I can't find anything on the website.  Any help?

Offline stitch101

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #120 on: September 18, 2014, 07:06:14 pm »
Chord sequences are chords strung together in a song. Unlike the one minute changes where you change
every beat. You'd change according to the song. To practice you can just play the A D E one per barre or
learn a song like Lay Down Sally (the simple version Justin Teaches) or any of the songs in stage one.

http://justinguitar.com/en/BS-000-BeginnersSongbook.php

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #121 on: September 18, 2014, 07:52:05 pm »
I was watching beginners training lesson i think 119, and chord sequences was mentioned as a good technique, but I can't find anything on the website.  Any help?

Twitch here's the accompanying text with BC119 - you refer to :

Songs / Chord Sequences
The idea here is just to have fun and dig on the fact that you should now be able to play some of the songs from the songbook. Pick one song per practice session and work on getting it as smooth as possible. Memorising the chord sequence for the song will certainly help if you are able to. However, I would recommend maybe starting off with some ‘made-up' sequences just to get you going. Below are some short chord sequences using D, A and E to try.

Playing chord sequences, or progressions, is a great way to develop your chord changes without the pressure of playing songs. I have to admit, the majority of people enjoy playing songs more, but they are both of great benefit.

Because there is no melody or lyrics to the chord progressions you can concentrate fully on making the changes between the chords as smooth as possible. The aim is not to stop at all, and to keep the timing of the strums perfectly evenly spaced. You are sure to recognise some of the progressions as being from famous songs too. You could even make up your own chord progressions if you want to!


So as Stitch suggested start learning the songs in the BeginnersSongbook via the link he provides.
I assume you're at stage 1 so watch the videos. Justin explains the simple 4 beats per bar strum you should be aiming at for now - things will get more complicated later rest assured. The songs below all contain just A D E which you are learning or have now learnt, so give these a go to get your confidence up but start real slow to get used to the chord sequences and then gradually  speed up so you can play along with the songs.
 
BS-101 • Three Little Birds - Bob Marley ∆
BS-102 • Feelin' Alright - Traffic
BS-103 • Hound Dog - Elvis Presley
BS-105 • I Walk The Line - Johnny Cash
BS-106 • The Gambler - Kenny Rodgers
BS-107 • That's All Right Mama - Elvis Presley
BS-108 • Love Me Do - The Beatles
BS-110 • Common People - Pulp

Oh yeah and have fun  8)
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Offline BadOmega

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #122 on: October 06, 2014, 02:09:29 am »
I'm just curious if you've gone through some or all of the stages how long it took you?

I tend to be very slow to get things requiring fine motor skills but I want to be able to play the some of the songs in the later stages now! ha.

And I know everyone is different, but maybe you guys can give me a little idea of exactly how patient I'm going to have to be.  ;)

Offline pipsickle

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #123 on: October 06, 2014, 07:12:23 am »
Hi BadOmega,

Some took me a week - 10 days some took me more than a month (the one with the F barre chord!). I then spent quite a few months on learning songs and consolidating at the end.

Good luck! :)

Offline TheCasual

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Re: What to learn next? Should I move to the next stage? etc etc.
« Reply #124 on: October 06, 2014, 11:27:20 am »
I started in mid January and finished beginning of October. So 9 months, But I spent 3 months learning songs and jamming around before going for the IM.

As Pipsickle said some of stages take longer then others. But don't be afraid to move on to the next stage and include something from the previous stage if you're struggling on it.

 
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