Author Topic: So, what are you learning now? 2021  (Read 1846 times)

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Online brianlarsen

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2021
« Reply #25 on: April 16, 2021, 05:22:08 pm »

Hey Toe...The mushrooms and E's are not really the source of my confusion  :o
I was wondering whether it wasn't a question of working back in 5ths, as opposed to progressing forwards till you're back in Kansas.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 08:41:22 am by close2u »

Offline J.W.C.

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2021
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2021, 05:45:07 pm »
@DavidP

Thanks. I started figuring out the guitar part this morning.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 08:42:07 am by close2u »

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2021
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2021, 06:30:38 pm »
Mr Larsen please forgive my facetiousness, as on this point I am equally confused and guess its one for Close to cover as he complete the circle.

I used to think it was the Circle of Fifths going clockwise and the Circle of Fourths counter clockwise. So if you start clockwise C to G is a fifth and counter clockwise C to F is a fourth. I get that but never why Hey Joe which is a counter clockwise trip around the clock, where's Bill Hayley when you need him, is referred as an example of the Circle Of Fifths when more accurately is should represent the Circle of Fourths.
But in the same breath I read the Circle of Fifths is the same as the Circle of Fourth and vice versa, at which point head head goes pop !

Ouch. I need to lie down now.

Cheers

Toby
 8)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 08:42:17 am by close2u »
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Online brianlarsen

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2021
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2021, 06:43:57 pm »
I too shall have a lie down and listen to some Sly(locibin) & The Family Stone(d)...
Everything in moderators 8)

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2021
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2021, 06:51:05 pm »
I too shall have a lie down and listen to some Sly(locibin) & The Family Stone(d)...
Everything in moderators 8)

While you're doing that I'll get the tatties distilled. We'll need that me thinks ! 8)
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Offline LievenDV

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2021
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2021, 08:59:35 pm »

Ergo C G D

@ Lord_Gigabyte

Best is not to see it as a linear sequence of chords but still see the big chord structure where you started from.
The V->I cadence is the strongest cadence there is; it really forces you to resolve to I

Example;
a fictional I-IV-V-I progression:

Code: [Select]
C.C.C.C|F.F.F.F| G.G.G.G|C.C.C.C|

G resolves to C but you can do a "small" resolve to G as well.

See it as a V->I resolve on it's own but this time consider the G as the I in its own little mini-progression.
he Fifth (V) of G is indeed D.

Code: [Select]
|C.C.C.C|F.F.F.F| D.D.G.G|C.C.C.C|

It doesn't really change the structure of the song and you can choose  to play or omit that extra chord as oyu won't harm the progrssion in any way.

t's not necesseraly "moving up in 5ths" so that train of thought wanders a bit from the idea here but a progression of 5ths proofs how STRONG fifths can be!
« Last Edit: April 18, 2021, 08:12:46 am by LievenDV »
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Offline J.W.C.

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2021
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2021, 09:12:52 pm »
...a progression of 5ths proofs how STRONG fifths can be!

One could say they're dominant... ;)

Offline LievenDV

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2021
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2021, 09:20:40 pm »
One could say they're dominant... ;)
right on!
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Offline Lord_Gigabyte

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2021
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2021, 08:12:23 am »
Ok, got it!

Now i understand AND have something to look into. The lesson about the circle of fifths (have seen the post, but not read it yet) and playing some progressions on the guitar, so i can hear what is happening.

Thank you all for the help!

We all have idols. Play like anyone you care about but try to be yourself while you're doing so

Online close2u

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2021
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2021, 08:55:47 am »
A tiny nudge at clarity ...

The concept behind the '5th of the 5th' is much more to do with pleasing and effective chord substitution to create a progression with internal resolutions as well as the final resolution to the tonic.

LievenDV has given a perfect mini-example where a full bar of a G chord resolving to a tonic C chord is replaced with a bar containing a half bar of D that itself resolves to a half bar of G. The D chord is not in the key of C. It is a chord substitution - borrowing a chord from another key (the key of G in this instance where D is the 5th).
Extend the D and G to become D7 and G7 and this will be heard even more.

The circle of fifths can be useful here in as much as it is a quick reference to know which chord is the 5th of another. But it is not about multiple chord movements around the circle. It is much more to do with chord substitution.

Take a chord that is not in the key of the main progression and put it in the right place for a musical impact. And in this case that chord is the 5th chord taken from the key of the original key's 5th chord, placed in front of the original key's 5th chord.

ps

re: the circle of fifths thread ... it has only just begun. And it will reference 4ths too. With no exploding heads I hope.
:)

« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 10:20:32 am by close2u »

Online close2u

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2021
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2021, 08:58:00 am »
@ J.W.C. lovely mandolin, amazing story of its birth and life, great audio capture. Thanks. :)

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2021
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2021, 10:17:40 am »

ps

re: the circle of fifths thread ... it has only just begun. And it will reference 4ths too. With no exploding heads I hope.
:)


And with that, the world breathed a sigh of relief !  8)
« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 10:20:41 am by close2u »
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Offline LievenDV

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2021
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2021, 11:29:55 am »

The V->I cadence is the strongest cadence there is; it really forces you to resolve to I


I saw this today and the joke fits this post so much, even the chords are the same :D

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Online close2u

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Re: So, what are you learning now? 2021
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2021, 11:39:31 am »
Fantastic Lieven. :)

 

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