Author Topic: BC-126 • Foot tapping (how to and why)  (Read 18011 times)

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Offline TB-AV

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Re: BC-126 • Foot tapping (how to and why)
« Reply #75 on: October 06, 2014, 01:34:44 am »
You are probably no seeing any 6/4. Most likely 6/8.. and 12/8 can sound like 4/4.
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Offline BadOmega

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Re: BC-126 • Foot tapping (how to and why)
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2014, 04:16:49 pm »



How can you easily identify the base beat / tempo of a song ?




I didn't understand most of what you said, and I'm still too new at this to understand the technical replies completely.

I wasn't really satisfied with the 'just listen to the song' answers either. How do I know I'm right?

I devised a test for myself but .... Well... Maybe that's not right either.

What I did was listen to a song while using one of those metronome apps where it tells you the bpm of your taps then went to jog.fm to see the actual bpm of the songs.

My results:
The gambler
Tap- 85 bpm
Jog.fm- 88 bpm

R U Mine?
Tap- 100 bpm
Jog.fm- 97 bpm

How to save life
Tap- 122 bpm
Jog.fm- 124 bpm

So, I think I'm getting it? Unless jog.fm is wrong or I actually don't understand how this works at all.

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: BC-126 • Foot tapping (how to and why)
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2014, 07:09:57 pm »
Bad

Not sure what BC level your at but I'll try and help, although what you've been doing seems fairly close.

When I'm listening to something, opposed to trying to learn a new piece, I can easily hear what is 4 beats per bar (1234) and what is either 3 or 6 beats per bar. For example try counting 12341234etc to a waltz and you'll see that it quickly goes out of sync. So my original question was really how do I identify the 1234 beat of the song (a little more knowledge help me phrase that better than the original post :))

Shadow and Mike's answer go a long way to help, when you are just listening to a track.
For most pop, rock, blues stuff the bass drum pulse is on 1 and 3, with the snare drum pulse on 2 and 4.
Thump, tok, thump, tok = 1 2 3 4
That is gonna get you there 80% of the time.  As always there are variations, but that is a great place to start. Shadow
Like shadow said, the kick and the snare tend to drive the tempo of the song. I find that if I tap your foot or nod my head along to a song, it usually matches up to the beat and I can work out the tempo from there.
I listen to a lot of high energy, fast rhythm rock and when I'm foot tapping its always at a hundred miles an hour, especially if I'm really into it. But I'm learning to play songs, I'm beginning to listen and analyse differently. I would find myself tapping away thinking these must be fastly played bars say of 12341234123412341234 ie 4 quick bars of 4 strums when whats actually being played was 1+2+3+4+1+2+3+4+ 2 bars of 8 strums.
If you've learnt or are learning stage 1 songs its a bit like the difference between Three Little Birds and Common People. With TLB your strumming 4 beats to the bar 1234 //// AAAA AAAA DDDD AAAA so you're foot tapping would sync with the strums or vice versa.
Common People played along with the records is 'pumping 8s' as Justin calls it ie 8 beats to the bar.
So when your tapping 1234 you are actually playing two down strums per tap, the 2nd being when the foot is raised and about to come down. This where the 1+2+3+4+ comes in ie 8 beats. If you think tap/raise/tap/raise/tap/raise/tap/raise you strum not only when you tap but when the foot is up.

When you come to learn the strumming patterns in RUST you'll see this falls into place with the introduction of the Up strum, which JS covers when he covers the strumming patterns of the part one songs. You could have a bar of DUDUDUDU (1+2+3+4+), when you listen to music you'll hear the up strums standing out, as they're not a full as the down strum, as you only hit 3 or 4 strings on the up.

What I've just started doing and this may help you (and others) is to start moving my strumming hand along with my foot when listening to something. Doing this I get a feel for the up strums and it also helps to identify the strumming pattern being played. I get a better idea of where the 1 2 3 4 falls and from there its easy to get a better idea of the BPM.

An example of how to get it wrong was my recent post of Whats Up. Read that threads and see the difference it made trying to play the song at 135bpm rather than 63bpm.
http://justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=35538.15  half way down page 2
You'll sense that somethings not quite right. Finally watching a video of the song often helps, the bands foot tapping, body movement and strumming.

Hope you find this helpful
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Offline BadOmega

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BC-126 • Foot tapping (how to and why)
« Reply #78 on: October 31, 2014, 01:08:46 am »
I'm in stage 1, but doing some stage 2 things.



I do know a little about reading music though which may actually be making it harder. It's like guitarists are speaking mandarin and I'm trying to translate to french ,which I only know a tiny bit of, to try to understand it.

For example I think what you are trying to say is Common People and Three Little birds have the same tempo but one is played with quarter notes and one is played with eighth notes.

I tried tapping them out and got 73 beats per minute on both but jog.fm puts them at double that. 148 and 143 I think it was. I don't think listening for drums worked in this case. The percussion seems to be slower that the actual beat or maybe my ears aren't hearing the right percussion.

Thanks for responding. I think I understood most of it this time.

I don't know what RUST is but it's probably not that important for me to know right now.

Offline mike42

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Re: BC-126 • Foot tapping (how to and why)
« Reply #79 on: October 31, 2014, 02:21:42 am »
If you listen to Common People, at the beginning you can hear the cymbal hits on 2 and 4. Since you calculated it out to be half that, you most likely heard the cymbals as being on each beat.

But at the start of the song, the cymbal doesn't hit right away and it would fall on the 'and' of each beat. It therefore seems most logical to me that the cymbal is on 2 and 4 with the other instruments playing 8th notes behind it.

Skip ahead to the middle where the song picks up and listen for the snare hits. You'll find that they also fall on the 2 and 4 which is very common in many songs. That's how I would interpret the song.

When I tap along to Three Little Birds I naturally tap slowly like you do. If I set the metronome to play along to that I would have it at 74, or whatever half the listed tempo works out to. Maybe I'm 'wrong,' but it works either way so I wouldn't worry.

Keep in mind that in Reggae music the accent is often on the 'and', so unlike Common People the cymbal hits are very likely to be on the 'and' of each beat. It's also probably why I interpret the song as being played at 74 bpm, because I expect a reggae rhythm.

Hopefully this gives you some insight as to how *I* look at things. If you set the metronome to half-time it really won't matter, though. In my opinion you're tapping along correctly either way!

Offline BadOmega

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Re: BC-126 • Foot tapping (how to and why)
« Reply #80 on: October 31, 2014, 02:13:46 pm »
Ah ha, thank you. It's really helpful to referencing actual song because I can go back and hear what you are saying. It makes nice feedback loop.

I knew reggae emphasized the off beats but didn't make the connection.

Offline tobyjenner

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Re: BC-126 • Foot tapping (how to and why)
« Reply #81 on: October 31, 2014, 07:00:56 pm »
Bad just for info

RUST is Justin's acronym for Really Useful Strumming Patterns (I know,,,,it spells RUSP but RUST it is)
You'll hit these from Stage 3 onwards and its where you'll start to play up strums as well as down strums.
I've dropped the link in for the lessons in BC 3 & 4. The text will give you an idea where you're going and more importantly, as a lot folk on the forum refer to strumming patterns by their Rust number or an odd name for example you'll see Old Faithful mentioned often which is DDUUD as its commonly used in loads of songs and its actually RUST #9.

Unless you're embarking on BC 3, this is for info only (a peak at the future). Stick with where you're at right now but this may help you decipher any pattern based threads. By the time you've got through a few more stages you'll be fluent in mandarin and french.

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http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BC-136-RhythmBasics1.php
http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BC-146-RhythmBasics2.php
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Offline TB-AV

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Re: BC-126 • Foot tapping (how to and why)
« Reply #82 on: November 10, 2014, 12:16:44 am »
Keep in mind that in Reggae music the accent is often on the 'and', so unlike Common People the cymbal hits are very likely to be on the 'and' of each beat. It's also probably why I interpret the song as being played at 74 bpm, because I expect a reggae rhythm.


This is not a good thing to keep in mind IMO. I have posted many things here on Reggae from videos, my words, Reggae engineers and producers, Reggae musicians, you name it... None of them are of your opinion regarding accents on the "and" to the best of my understanding.

@BadOmega... you can't always trust written music because it's used to communicate. If you can write out a piece and make it clear that's fine. Another person may write it in a different time and still be clear. This is especially true of writing "easy versions" of songs.

What you want to find is the minor subdivision. tick tick tick. What is the instrument that play it? Does it make sense that it is a 1/16, 1/8, or 1/4 note. Compare that to something that is often alternating, like a bass and snare. If bass and snare are 1/4 now what is the tick tick tick in comparison? If it's 1/4 then it should tick for every bass and snare. If it's 1/8 then it should tick for every bass and snare and one in between each.... etc....

Common People if it's fast pop song I just saw, never heard of it, that is tick tick tick tick 1/8 in 4/4 time. So it's 1 & 2 & etc.

What you probably hear in Reggae is the correct slow tempo but the drummer may play cut time which is twice as fast. This is made even more difficult when beat 3 is the accent beat in much of Reggae.

Justin's version of TLB is for beginners, it's not a study in Reggae music and any mention of accenting offbeats and such is a simplified means of relating to a beginner. It's really not where you want your thought processes regarding real Reggae.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2014, 12:35:36 am by TB-AV »
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Offline mike42

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Re: BC-126 • Foot tapping (how to and why)
« Reply #83 on: November 10, 2014, 12:45:52 am »
Thanks for correcting me, TB. I'm not too familiar with reggae music, so I probably shouldn't have attempted to give a 'general' explanation to reggae rhythm.

Offline Tim Mason

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Re: BC-126 • Foot tapping (how to and why)
« Reply #84 on: November 10, 2014, 07:55:50 am »
I think this illustrates TB-AV's point:





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