Author Topic: SC-301 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale: Essential Information  (Read 109928 times)

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Offline close2u

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #150 on: September 18, 2010, 04:59:21 pm »
Hey,  I'm a little confused about these minor and major scales. Let's say that I have a song in the key of C/Am and I want to improvise over it with minor pentatonic scale. Because it's minor scale, should I use A Minor Pentatonic? But then again the basic blues Justin teaches is in A (major) and still use A Minor Pentatonic.
I have noticed that A Minor Pentatonic is like a simplified version of C Major Scale, and also noticed that it sounds good to play with either of them. I just need some explanation. Please.
Thx.
-Tomps

Hi Tomps ... see if this video helps ... it's a study piece by Geoff Whitehorn that I have somewhere ... the chords are C, Aminor, F, G ... the first part is solo using A minor pentatonic (C major pentatonic) and the second part is C minor pentatonic ... can you hear the difference between the major and minor pent? ... bright to bluesy

 :)

Tomps

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #151 on: September 18, 2010, 09:17:38 pm »
Hi Tomps ... see if this video helps ... it's a study piece by Geoff Whitehorn that I have somewhere ... the chords are C, Aminor, F, G ... the first part is solo using A minor pentatonic (C major pentatonic) and the second part is C minor pentatonic ... can you hear the difference between the major and minor pent? ... bright to bluesy

 :)

What video? There's no link or anything  :o  :D

-Tomps

Offline close2u

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #152 on: September 19, 2010, 10:26:52 am »

Blackadder

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #153 on: September 19, 2010, 02:24:55 pm »
Hey Justin. I got quite big hands so everytime i play this scale i can reach all with my third finger with ease. I find that my third finger is way more accurate than my pinky... Can you use your third finger instead of your pinky in this exercise?

Offline close2u

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #154 on: September 19, 2010, 02:54:22 pm »
yes, what ever finger suits you ...

ps

can you adjust your avatar pic size 80x80 or less

 :)

Tomps

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #155 on: September 19, 2010, 04:15:03 pm »
close2u, thx for the vid. I think I understand know.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it like this: You can use both of them A Minor (C major) Pentatonic or C Minor pentatonic in the key of C/Am, difference is just that if I use the minor pentatonic of the Major (key C, use C minor pentatonic) I will get a bluesy sound. And if I use minor pentatonic of the Minor (key Am, use A minor pentatonic) It's like using a simplified major scale. Right?
At least that's how it sounds to my ear ;D.

-Tomps

Offline LBro

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #156 on: May 20, 2011, 04:57:09 am »
Ok,
I was thinking I was starting to understand this theory stuff and now I am not so sure. Here is my question(s).

I have or lay down a rythem backing track in say A. Now I want to play  in the Minor Pentatonic Scale over the top of it so I pick the root scale located at the 5th fret on the 6th string.

1. Am I ok to do that and will it all sound cool, no matter the cords? - I have tried it and most sounds decent... but it seems to depend on the actual cords used.... hum.. I must be off on my theory stuff.

2. Would I be better off to use the major scale in A and more of the notes would "fit" and "sound" better?

3. Or is it with the scale depending on the mood I want to impart with my riff? Meaning if I want to impart a happy molody I use major scales and if I want to impart and bit down sound I use the Minor Pentatonic?

4. Ok so here is a curve ball. Can I only use the Minor Penatonic scales over minor cords in the key of A for this example?

5. Is it that only the cords that have root notes contained in the scale that will alow them to "fit" when I play the scale over the top of them?

Yes I am seaching and a bit confused, that I am willing to admit, thus your answer may help to right a sailing ship that is listing.

Thanks for your help,

LB
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Offline Jaroot

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #157 on: November 13, 2011, 02:48:35 pm »
While having a chat in Ustream Justin showed us chords which are belong to minor pentatonic scale. Unfortunately it hadn't been recorded, and I have memorized just some of them. But the actual question is: Is pentatonic harmonizing the same way as the diatonic scales?

LBro
You have probably found your answers already, it was a long time since you've asked but:
1) Minor pent. works almost every situation, even over some major chords. If all chords in your backing track belong to the key of A, it will sound OK. But to sound really good, I guess you should think about every chord and play certain notes over them.
2) I think if you play over chords which are come from A major, you better use A major scale instead of minor pent. and it will sound totally different. Plus with additional notes you can create more tenshion and release. For me, minor pent. works great in minor key, and over dead major it sounds not so great.
3) Minor and major are completely different emotional qualities. The Major perceived as happy, bright, etc and the Minor perceived as sad and dark. It's about some intervals which determine tonality, i think. For example 3rd degree above the root is very important. But many rock riffs are neither major of minor because they consist of power chords (root and 5th) and don't have determinative notes. If you compose a real minor riff, you won't be able to use major 3rd while soloing over.
4) You can use one minor pent. scale over whole bunch of minor chords in a certain key. If some chords don't belong to one key, your scale will probably sound rubbish over them
5) Hmm, i guess you can use minor pent. scale over 7 chords of the diatonic minor, but I am not sure about II chord which is diminished though. Over VI chord in A minor key which is F major you can use A minor pent. scale in spite of the fact that F note can't be found in your A pent. scale. So the short answer to your question is "no".

I hope I am not misinforming you :D I hope Justin will answer too.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 10:27:19 pm by Jaroot »
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jphils

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #158 on: November 14, 2011, 07:53:13 am »
hi! First i want to commend Justin & d moderators of these forums for painstakingly taking out the tym 2 offer such detaild help...i hv a couple of questions though.. Firstly i have issues with finding the key of a song.i'm sorry if i'm askin this in the wrong forum...bt is ther any possible way i cud get help on this?
Again i heard frm someone that the key of a song can only be the major of that note wether the natural or sharp/flat note, never the minor or dim, aug etc...is this true?
Also i'd like to knw, does the minor pentatonic scale work for every kind of music, because i'm african and though i listen to western, i'd still like to apply this to home music but it doesnt seem to work.... I'm so nouveaux to all this, help pleassseee!!

Offline LBro

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #159 on: November 14, 2011, 07:20:43 pm »
Jaroot,
Hey - Thanks for the reply as that is a pretty good answer. I have not been into my Theory as much lately due to illness but what you say makes sense. Sadly my guitar playing is suffering as well in the advancement area. I am still trying to play every day when I feel up to it.

I knew there was a reason minor pentatonic fit over many things I just did not know why. The "off" notes were also a puzzle to me. I mean by ear you can learn by trial and error to avoid the bad notes over chords, but much better to understand the why of it all. You seem to have this one down and it makes sense to me.

LB
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Offline Jaroot

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #160 on: November 14, 2011, 10:13:56 pm »
I'm glad I helped. It's very useful to know intervals. Because scale is just a set of intervals. You know, minor pentatonic can be seen as natural minor without 2nd and 6th degrees above the root note. For example over classic minor chord progression in Am: Am, G, F you can use A minor pentatonic which is a simple way or you can use A natural minor with additional two notes (B and F), so you can create more interesting sound. For example landing on F note when it comes to F chord (classic example solo to Stairway to Heaven). By removing 2nd and 6th we no longer have any half-steps in the scale, so it's easy to create a strong melody. Plus, minor pentatonic over dominant chords = classic blues sound :)
I suggest you to watch this lesson: SC-014 • Relationships between notes and chords.

jphils
Not sure that I understand everything but:
You heard wrong. As far as I know, we have 12 keys (number of notes in our most common music system). Plus every key can be major or minor. For example F# major, F# minor, A major, B minor etc. Every key has a relative key, they share the same notes and chords. Example: C major and A minor, E minor and G major. So every major key has relative minor and and vice versa. You just start from different root note so you ear knows there the tonic center is. Check out Circle of fifths, it's pretty logical.

I don't think that minor pentatonic works for every kind of music, because it is regulated by western harmony rules. In some kind of music may be different system of tuning, intervals, rules or whatever.
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Offline Drubbing

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #161 on: February 23, 2012, 02:34:35 pm »
I've got to ask: how long does it take to get it together with scales? I've been practising the minor pent for nearly a month now, and I still suck. Badly. I'm still on the first shape. I've not moved from there because I can't even get through that slowly without stuffing it up, I'm as poor now as I was 3 weeks ago.

I'm progressing ok with everything else, and starting on stage 3, chords and changes are all improving a lot. But the MP is just going nowhere. I keep picking the wrong strings that I'm supposed to be fretting, and that throws me off, and then I end up messing my fretting up and getting out of sequence.

What to do? It doesn't help my action is a little high, and when I've the capo on the 3rd fret (when practising one of the songs), then the MP is a little easier, but it's no fix to help me improve.

Offline Bootstrap

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #162 on: February 23, 2012, 04:24:45 pm »
Drubs - it isn't the minor pentatonic you are having trouble with - it is picking accuracy, and to a lesser extent fretting accuracy you are having trouble with.

This is normal for a beginner.

Can you truly touch type - ie not look at the keyboard and type accurately? How long did that take?

It's all about having a point of reference.

In typing (if you're doing it right) your fingers intuitively find the home keys A S D F & J K L - the F & J have the little bumps on them so you can feel them and not have to look for them. Once your "home", your fingers know where all the other keys are.

In guitar, some people can just start on a string and know where all the other strings are - mere mortals "anchor" the pinky of their picking hand on the pick guard for their point of reference.

Like most things on guitar - it takes time to become proficient.

One exercise I used to do was pick the open 6th string, then the 5th, back to 6, then to 4, back to 6, then to 3, - 6 2 6 1 and then reverse it.

One thing for certain - if you practice hard and get better at picking accuracy - learning other patterns will seem like a snap and you will wonder why learning position one took so long :)
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Offline close2u

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #163 on: February 23, 2012, 08:52:55 pm »
... I'm progressing ok with everything else, and starting on stage 3, chords and changes are all improving a lot..

As ever bootstrap gives good advice.
I have to ask if you are trying to run befor you can walk.
You're only on stage 3 ... is that of the beginner course?
If so, then you may need to rein in your ambitions a little and build up some pre-requisite skills first.

Offline Drubbing

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #164 on: February 23, 2012, 11:45:23 pm »
Thanks for the perspective fellas, yes I'm on the beginners course. I'll redouble my efforts. I might still get my guitar action sorted too, if I don't make progress after a while, it's definitely on the high side, but I've a cheaper guitar, so there may not be much wriggle room.

Boot, your analogy is bang on, I'll try your home key suggestion. Yes, I did learn to TT, back when I was a kid working for the postal service. But I've long since lost the 'touch'. I was trained on minimal, and then blind keyboards. Took 2-3 weeks of 8 hour days to reach the required standard for speed and accuracy. So 100+ hours. I'm nowhere near that.

 

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