Author Topic: SC-301 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale: Essential Information  (Read 111354 times)

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AICD99

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #105 on: January 18, 2010, 11:57:03 pm »
also, can I play the 2nd position of the Am Pent at the 5th fret exactly where the 1st position was?

Offline asylum

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #106 on: January 21, 2010, 07:43:43 pm »
no if you play second pos of the minor pent starting at the 5th fret you are then playing in the key of F# minor, just look at position 2 and see where the root note is, its on the D string, so if you start out at the 5 fret of the E string (thickest string) you will see that the root note is on the F# note on the D string.
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SteveW

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #107 on: February 05, 2010, 03:52:19 pm »
I’m brand new to the guitar and I guess I’m trying to do 3 things at once, play notes, chords, scales etc to learn the positions (and toughen up my finger tips), learn about music theory (what’s a pentatonic scale, what’s a perfect fifth and why is it so called, etc) and lastly to try and play tunes, licks, riffs, etc. I wonder if anyone can clarify for me the music theory of pentatonic scales. In his video Justin shows an Am Pentatonic being ACDEG but then confuses me by saying that the degrees in the Minor Pentatonic are the first degree, the flat third, the fourth, the fifth, the flat seven and then the octave again. So, here’s my confusion. It seems that is only Cm Pentatonic that has flats in the 2nd and 5th notes and the Notes Circle has no Cb so how can the 2nd note of the Am Pentatonic be a 3rd flat. I think I’m confusing notes and harmonics but am not sure as to why or how?! ???

Offline Bootstrap

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #108 on: February 05, 2010, 11:09:55 pm »
Hi Steve W and welcome.

I suspect you would benefit from learning about the Major Scale and how it works as everything reall stems from it.

The major scale of any key always follows the same formula R, T, T, S, T, T, T, S where R is the root, T is a full tone (or 2 frets on your guitar) and S is a semitone (or one fret).

Before I go on you mentioned that the is no Cb - there is but we usually call it the note B - there is only a semitone between B & C and E & F all other notes are a full tone apart.

So using the full A major scale and following the above formula the notes be A, B, C# (because of the semitone gap between B&C a full tone jump takes you to C#) D, E, F#, G#.

So that is the A Major Scale - to convert it to a full Minor Scale we flatten the 3rd, 6th & 7th degree of the Major Scale so the notes you would end up with would be A, B, C, D, E, F, G (which incidentally looks just like the C Major Scale just starting in a different spot and this is known as the Relative Major to the A Minor scale).

The Minor Pentatonic only uses 5 notes from the full Minor Scale the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, & 7th which is A, C, D, E, G.

Because we relate everything back to the Major Scale Justin describes the A Minor Pentatonic as the 1, b3, 4, 5, b7 of the A Major scale - which as you can see from the above, it is.

I hope I haven't confused you further - feel free to clarify. You might also want to consider buying Justin's Reall Useful Guitar Stuff - Practical Music Theory e-book.

Good luck with it.

Cheers, Bootstrap
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Offline Bootstrap

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #109 on: February 05, 2010, 11:39:05 pm »
Sorry didn't answer your Perfect 5th question - firstly because it is neither a minor or a major interval - the naming of these intervals has to do their relationship with the root note and the harmonic nature of the way it interacts with the root.

Without going into too much confusing math or music theory (some of which I don't quite get myself yet) but if you were to look at it in frequency terms the 5th is exactly halfway between the root & the octave eg an A note @ 440hz would have an octave @ 880hz and the 5th (in this case an E note) @ 660hz and harmonically this is really cool. It gives what is known as "consonance" between the notes. 

If you want to drive yourself mad start to check out the ratios of the the different degrees of scale to the root... But learn about the Major Scale first!

But for now just take it that both the 4th and 5th are perfect intervals NB the inversion of each is always the other - eg A to E is a perfect 5th and E back to A is a perfect 4th. Perfect :)

Cheers, Boots
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Offline Bootstrap

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #110 on: February 06, 2010, 12:29:12 am »
Sorry can't edit from mobile....

But one thing that might clarify understanding of the perfect intervals is this.

The ratio of the perfect 5th to the root is 3:2 (ie 1.5 to 1 - which you can see clearly in the 440hz to 660hz exmaple above) and the ratio of the perfect 4th to the root is 4:3.

Now think about the ratio's of how we like to see things - 3:2 is the same as 6:4 - which is a very common photo size - 3:2 is roughly A4 paper. 4:3 is a common aspect ratio for TV's or light projectors.

We see things in these ratio's as "perfect". Incidentally a popular way to increase something in size is to double it ie every aspect is twice the size of the original - a perfect replication if you will only double the size.

Well here is the scoop - we like to hear things at these ratio's too hence the perfect 4, the perfect 5th & the perfect octave.

B :)
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Road Case last update 11 Mar 2012

SteveW

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #111 on: February 06, 2010, 08:47:36 am »
Bootstrap,

Many thanks for this erudite response and bearing in mind that it'll take a day to inculcate through the grey matter and now I need to look at Major scales too, I think I'll get it sometime tomoz! The subject matter, to me anyway, is really interesting but I've ignored it all my life - just enjoyed listening to Gilmour, Clapton, Hendrix, The Edge, etc without any classical understanding. The more I understand the more I realise I don't know. It's a long road but every step is progress!

However, on the Perfect Fifth issue, I think it is called "perfect" because mathematically the frequency difference in cents (1/100 of a semitone) is near enough "bang on" the actual notes in terms of sound listening quality of an instrument, whereas most other harmonics have a built in error that we can hear but ignore as they are more than 50 cents out. The fifth is different and very close so it's perfect. Justin points to Wikipedia which helped me (if one doesn't dig too deep into advanced maths).

Thanks again.

Steve

cora

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #112 on: February 18, 2010, 10:26:33 pm »
ouhhhh la la. ???
I am getting crazy at this scale lesson.
I have hew questions, I feel stupid learning that as I don't really understand  :-\
So I am trying to learn the first position.
Justin explain that if you look the root note you know the note of the scale?
But how do you know which one is the root note ( if you don't have the graphic)? And why E shape for the fist one?
Then I would like to know how long it took you guys to play this scale properly, because I just have this feeling that my hand ( to be precisise me little finger) is not working at all for this exercise.
Hope you'll understand my questions and it doesn't sound too stupid  :-[

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #113 on: February 19, 2010, 06:40:32 am »
ouhhhh la la. ???
I am getting crazy at this scale lesson.
slowly slowly catchy monkey  :)


So I am trying to learn the first position.
Justin explain that if you look the root note you know the note of the scale?
But how do you know which one is the root note ( if you don't have the graphic)? And why E shape for the fist one?
1st position
root note = 1st note you play with 1 st finger on thick e string

why don't you have the graphic?
it's here
http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BL-012-BluesScales.php

Then I would like to know how long it took you guys to play this scale properly, because I just have this feeling that my hand ( to be precisise me little finger) is not working at all for this exercise.
Everyone is / will be different

these are good exercises to stretch and strengthen your fingers to you can play scales (and everything) better
http://www.justinguitar.com/en/TE-000-Technique.php

especially for your curent situation this one (about half way down that page)
http://www.justinguitar.com/en/TE-001-FingerGym.php


Hope you'll understand my questions and it doesn't sound too stupid  :-[

you are not alone !!   ;D

Scarletcreek

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #114 on: February 19, 2010, 05:41:46 pm »
Hey, i got a question about the patterns. If I understood correctly, than E shape root note will always be on lowest E string?
If that's the case, than D shape pattern lowest root note will always be on D string? If not, why did'nt Justin use the root note on E string 5th fret?
Maybe I just should stick to the pattern graphics and always search for root notes on strings where R is indicated first? I'm confused.

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #115 on: February 19, 2010, 09:00:05 pm »
...Maybe I just should stick to the pattern graphics and always search for root notes on strings where R is indicated first? I'm confused.

yes

you're getting confused
follow the graphic and the vid lessons
 :)

Tomps

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #116 on: February 26, 2010, 04:32:20 pm »
Hi!

I have one question. Is it always that if the song is in the key of X I should play my scales from the key of X? Just asking cause for example in Highway to Hell by AC/DC Angus Young plays the solo from A with minor pentatonic, but according to this: http://randscullard.com/CircleOfFifths/ the song is in the key of D.
How come he plays the solo from A in a song key of D? Can I play solos in the key of Y even if the song is in the key of X?

-Tomps

Galacto

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale [SOLVED]
« Reply #117 on: February 28, 2010, 07:43:06 pm »
Hi!
I'm a self learned guitarist from sweden whos been playing guitar for 15 years. But have never cared to learn and understand scales and notes or stuff like that, until now.
So I'm about to learn playing guitar again  :)

Now my first question on this forum is about the pentatonic scale.

On the site I was reading about the scale shapes and the first position is E-shape.And the first note you plays names the scale. So is the E-shape played starting at the 12:th fret?

The second position is D-shape but where is the first note played?
and so on.....Please explain this to me so I can keep learning!!

hmmm....nevermind...just figured it out! 8)
Thanx
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 07:51:36 pm by Galacto »

Offline Bootstrap

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #118 on: February 28, 2010, 10:08:24 pm »
Hi Galacto,

The "E-shape" refers to the pattern that is built around E-shape barre chords - sometimes referred to as position 1 - the sweet thing is if you learn the pattern you can play the very same pattern commencing at any point up or down the fretboard.

So if you were to commence the pattern on the 5th fret of the 6th string you would be playing in A - if you moved that down to the 8th fret you would be playing in C - commence on the 10th fret you are playing in D.

The way Justin teaches this scale is for you ultimately to learn 5 patterns that are built around replicable open chord shapes played as barre chords up the neck ie C, A, G, E, D - collectively known as the CAGED system.

Hope that makes some sense to you.

Welcome to the orum and enjoy.

Cheers, Boots
The best guitar is the one you have in your hands
Road Case last update 11 Mar 2012

Mkkl

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Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
« Reply #119 on: March 31, 2010, 07:02:40 pm »
I have (a) question(s) about improvising.
I just started out with scales and stuff and I have got the Minor Pentatonic in position one fully. But I'm kinda tired of practicing already and I have to do all the other positions to. So I tried using only the notes in MinPent and listening to the song and finding a bassnote which matches the sound of the song, and I could do quite something with that. (More than I thought)
But this is not really the concept of improvising I think... I know you have to know in which key the song is. But I'm not really sure how to do it, and I am wondering things like, does a song change in key (I think so) how often in general. How to make a good change of the key in which your soloing, so from A MinPent to lets say G MinPent. Can I find it somewhere here on the site. Or could someone answer the question on the forum or send me a useful link?

Thanks already!

Michiel.

 

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