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justinguitar Product Support => PDF - Practical Music Theory => Topic started by: justinguitar on October 13, 2007, 10:22:59 am

Title: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: justinguitar on October 13, 2007, 10:22:59 am
OK - so it seems some of you are not getting this one, looks like I need to revise that text!

The point of these diagrams is to help you find the chords in a key quickly. The diagrams show you the physical relationships between the root notes in a key.

The I, IV and V are all root notes for Major chords. The II, III and VI chords are all minors.

The idea is that if you place the R on a note that is the key - it is possible to use these physical relationships between the root notes to work out the chords in a key - which is useful in unusual keys that maybe you don't know the notes off the top of your head.

Some practical examples of this...

Let say that you want to play a song in the key of Ab. Rather than have to memorise all the notes in that key and figure out the chords you simply put the big R from the first diagram on the note Ab, 4th fret on the 6th string.

That that is a I chord or R so that is a major chord. The chord with the root on the 5th string at the 4th fret is also a Major Chord (one string over from the R) - as is the chord at the 6th fret (they would be Db and Eb - but you don't need to know the names - just the relationship with the Root!)

You would also know that a tone higher than the R there is a minor chord (Bb in this case) and a tone above that is also a minor chord (Cmin in this case).

It also helps you to see that if you have say two major chords a tone apart that they would be IV and V - so use the diagram to find out which is the root.

These diagrams are just to help you out if you don't know all the notes in all the keys!

Hope that helps clarify that!

J
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: ImpurestClub on March 17, 2009, 08:24:28 pm
Hey, I had made another topic about this a little bit ago, but once I realized there was already one made I figured I should post my question here instead (and wait until I had a computer to write it up instead of using my phone).  Anyway, I have the diagrams on the page memorized but I was wondering how this would help me make chords.  I understand that I use the root note to determine the chord, but how would I determine the shape (ie. fretting position)?  Would I just use the "chord finding method" from earlier in the packet and memorize those fingerings?  Sorry to kind of double post this (the other topic is blank) but I feel I should really understand something before I move along in the packet.

Thanks so much,

Tarik
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: GuitarPhil on July 28, 2009, 10:35:28 pm
The Intervals on the Neck chapter just really clicked with me today - a light bulb went on in my head  :D

Tarik, if you take a look at the left hand diagram on P23, where the root note is on the 6th string you'd use the E shape (or Em shape if the chord is a minor) and where the root is on the 5th string you'd use the A shape or Am shape.

Remember only the I, IV and V chords are major, the II, III and VI are minor (the VII is diminished which I am not familiar with  :-\)

For example, suppose you are playing in the key of A so you would play the E shape at the 5th fret and that would give you the root chord A. Move up two frets and play the Em shape and you have the II chord, Bm.

Play the A shape at the 5th fret (root on the 5th string) and you have your IV chord, D.

Drop back a fret to the 4th fret and finger the Am shape and there is your III chord, C#m.

Here's what that last C#m chord looks like on a fretboard diagram
http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/index.php?ch=C%23%2FDb&mm=m&v=1 (http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/index.php?ch=C%23%2FDb&mm=m&v=1)
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.23 - Help
Post by: bika on December 04, 2009, 10:25:21 am
I just don't seem to be getting this page.

I would have thought the root note would be the lowest note (re: the right diagram box).
I have followed the book through and revised constantly, alas, this part is not falling into place.  I do (at least I think I do) understand the major / minor concept.
I just can't see how to apply this"simple trick".
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.23 - Help
Post by: bika on December 04, 2009, 10:37:25 am
Clear as mud!  :)
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: jecd1973 on January 12, 2010, 07:03:39 pm
Can someone clarify what these intervals are teaching us????

In the notes it mentions that "these exercises are here to teach us Key signatures"

Sorry to be such a dunce but i don't understand what i am learning, i understand that songs are in different keys and i know my caged scales in all 5 postions also relevent minors and there relationship with majors, but at the moment i have no idea where this is going!!!

Please if someone could explain roughly what this intervals section is about i would appreciate it very much, as it is fairly involved with filling out all the charts and i am finding it very hard to continue when i have no idea what i am doing!!!
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: Fly4him17 on January 12, 2010, 07:36:07 pm
I have been playing guitar for about 10 years off and on... I've been studying this Practical Guide to Theory for about a week and the guitar is a whole new instrument to me.

Be sure that you read Justin's comment below on 10-13-07... it really helped me understand this page.
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: justinguitar on January 14, 2010, 10:44:18 pm
which post on 13th Oct 07 - I can't find it!!!

I have added some more text to the above post - hope that helps clarify it now!
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: PJMCM on January 15, 2010, 09:18:59 am
which post on 13th Oct 07 - I can't find it!!!

I have added some more text to the above post - hope that helps clarify it now!

Probably should have read "Justin's comment above on 10-13-07", the first post on this page which you posted on 13th Oct 07.

Peter
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: Fly4him17 on January 16, 2010, 01:34:54 pm
OK - so it seems some of you are not getting this one, looks like I need to revise that text!

The point of these diagrams is to help you find the chords in a key quickly. The diagrams show you the physical relationships between the root notes in a key.

The I, IV and V are all root notes for Major chords. The II, III and VI chords are all minors.

The idea is that if you place the R on a note that is the key - it is possible to use these physical relationships between the root notes to work out the chords in a key - which is useful in unusual keys that maybe you don't know the notes off the top of your head.

Some practical examples of this...

Let say that you want to play a song in the key of Ab. Rather than have to memorise all the notes in that key and figure out the chords you simply put the big R from the first diagram on the note Ab, 4th fret on the 6th string.

That that is a I chord or R so that is a major chord. The chord with the root on the 5th string at the 4th fret is also a Major Chord (one string over from the R) - as is the chord at the 6th fret (they would be Db and Eb - but you don't need to know the names - just the relationship with the Root!)

You would also know that a tone higher than the R there is a minor chord (Bb in this case) and a tone above that is also a minor chord (Cmin in this case).

It also helps you to see that if you have say two major chords a tone apart that they would be IV and V - so use the diagram to find out which is the root.

These diagrams are just to help you out if you don't know all the notes in all the keys!

Hope that helps clarify that!

J

This is the post I'm referring to. (Sorry, 10-13-07 is the American version of the dating format). And depending on the settings you have for the forum the comment is above or below.
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: justinguitar on January 26, 2010, 09:11:59 pm
:) well at least it's all good...
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.23 - Help
Post by: close2u on March 02, 2010, 07:43:31 am
I just don't seem to be getting this page....I would have thought the root note would be the lowest note...
yes it is ... these positions on the neck are not just notes ... they are the positions of the root notes of 7 different chords (the diatonic chords as described in the text).
two diagrams ...
1] if you play a major chord with root on 6th string, and take is as the I chord, then the ii minor chord is 2 frets higher, the iii minor is 4 frets higher, the IV Major is on the same fret 5th string, the V Major is two frets higher on the 5th string, the vi minor is three frets higher on the 5th string and the vii diminished is 4 frets higher on the 5th string
2] apply the same thought process but working from the I major on the 5th string and follow each through to a fret higher / lower on the 5th / 6th string

Can someone clarify what these intervals are teaching us? Please if someone could explain roughly what this intervals section is about i would appreciate it very much, as it is fairly involved with filling out all the charts and i am finding it very hard to continue when i have no idea what i am doing!!!

If you started with an open position E Major chord, the I chord in the key of E and then moved up the neck playing barre chords all with their root on the 6th string you would play:

I - E Major, ii - F# minor, iii - G# minor, IV - A Major, V - B Major, vi - C# minor, vii - D# diminished

Remember - you started with an open E chord ... what if you started with an E shape barre chord at fret 3 .. a G Major? You won't want to or find it practical to play in a linear fashion up the neck to make all 7 chords so the interval neck diagram helps ....
You can find the 7 diatonic (barre) chords starting on G Major like this ..
I - G Major (fret 3 6th string root)
ii - A minor (fret 5 6th string root)
iii - B minor (fret 7 6th string root or fret 2 5th string root ... see the diagram)
V - C Major (fret 3 5th string root)
V - D Major (fret 5 5th string root)
vi - E minor (fret 7 5th string root)
vii - F# diminished (fret 4 6th string root)

For a Major chord ( the I chord) apply the same thought process but working from the I major on the 5th string and follow each through using the interval diagrams

 :)
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: lalallala on June 15, 2010, 09:25:54 pm
Hi I'm pretty much new to this Interval subject. After reading the posts it somewhat cleared my head up but I have a couple of questions. If all the chords happen to be Power Chords, How will I determine the Key of the song?Do I treat them as Major Chords? Also does the root always have to the first chord/note played?  I'm sure it isn't after doing the exercise but I still have doubts because of the Power Chord problem. Hope someone can easily clear this up.=)

Thanks,
L
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: Zapped on June 15, 2010, 09:47:48 pm
If all the chords happen to be Power Chords, How will I determine the Key of the song?Do I treat them as Major Chords?

This question isn't really about Intervals, or the explanation on p.22 in the RUGS1-PMT book. You might want to repost in the "General Questions" forum.

Look at this post (http://www.justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=17314.msg114720#msg114720) to see the general procedure for finding a song's key. It's the same with power chords as with any other chord sequence. You first have to get all the pitches used, order them, and them use other clues to find the key, and possibly discard notes that are taken from another key.

Quote
Also does the root always have to the first chord/note played?  I'm sure it isn't after doing the exercise but I still have doubts because of the Power Chord problem.

You ask a question and then answer it ("does the root always have to [be] first" and "I'm sure it isn't"), but I don't know what "the exercise" is. Maybe elaborate a bit in your new post to General Questions.
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: lalallala on June 16, 2010, 06:30:27 am
Sorry I thought my questions were relevant since it's about finding chords within a key.  Also on page 24 it explained how some keys are modulated so I wondered if the power chords also modulate from the Major Scale. Also I was referring to the exercise on page 22. But yes you are right, I asked in the wrong section. Sorry about that, I'm new to this subject and I didn't know I was reading different sections of the book. The Diatonic Chords, Intervals, and Common Chord Pattern sections really go together so I got confused.

Thank you very much,
L

Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: vermp00 on January 30, 2011, 12:08:00 am
May be this will help.

The table wil show a littlebit out of line. I could not upload the Excel spreadsheet.

The I (next to "Key") and the second "C" below it and the "1" And the "C " below the "1"  should be one stright line. So should be the columns next to these.
So should also be the rest.

Key   I   II   III   IV   V   VI   VII   I   II   III   IV      
C   C   D   E   F   G   A   B   C   D   E   F      
   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11      
I   C      E      G                     C   Major
II      D      F      A                  D   Minor
III         E      G      B               E   Minor
IV            F      A      C            F   Major
V               G      B      D         G   Major
VI                  A      C      E      A   Minor
VII                     B      D      F   B   Dim
                                       
Key   I   II   III   IV   V   VI   VII   I   II   III   IV      
D   D   E   F#   G   A   B   C#   D   E   F#   G      
   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11      
I   D      F#      A                     D   Major
II      E      G      B                  E   Minor
III         F#      A      C#               F#   Minor
IV            G      B      D            G   Major
V               A      C#      E         A   Major
VI                  B      D      F#      B   Minor
VII                     C#      E      G   C#   Dim
                                       
Key   I   II   III   IV   V   VI   VII   I   II   III   IV      
 E   E   F#   G#   A   B   C#   D#   E   F#   G#   A      
   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11      
I   E      G#      B                     E   Major
II      F#      A      C#                  F#   Minor
III         G#      B      D#               G#   Minor
IV            A      C#      E            A   Major
V               B      D#      F#         B   Major
VI                  C#      E      G#      C#   Minor
VII                     D#      F#      A   D#   Dim
                                       
Key   I   II   III   IV   V   VI   VII   I   II   III   IV      
F   F   G   A   Bb   C   D   E   F   G   A   Bb      
   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11      
I   F      A      C                     F   Major
II      G      Bb      D                  G   Minor
III         A      C      E               A   Minor
IV            Bb      D      F            Bb   Major
V               C      E      G         C   Major
VI                  D      F      A      D   Minor
VII                     E      G      Bb   E   Dim
                                       
Key   I   II   III   IV   V   VI   VII   I   II   III   IV      
 G   G   A   B   C   D   E   F#   G   A   B   C      
                                       
I   G      B      D                     G   Major
II      A      C      E                  A   Minor
III         B      D      F#               B   Minor
IV            C      E      G            C   Major
V               D      F#      A         D   Major
VI                  E      G      B      E   Minor
VII                     F#      A      C   F#   Dim
                                       
                                       
Key   I   II   III   IV   V   VI   VII   I   II   III   IV      
 A   A   B   C#   D   E   F#   G#   A   B   C#   D      
                                       
I   A      C#      E                     A   Major
II      B      D      F#                  B   Minor
III         C#      E      G#               C#   Minor
IV            D      F#      A            D   Major
V               E      G#      B         E   Major
VI                  F#      A      C#      F#   Minor
VII                           B      D   B   Dim
                                       
                                       
Key   I   II   III   IV   V   VI   VII   I   II   III   IV      
 B   B   C#   D#   E   F#   G#   A#   B   C#   D#   E      
                                       
I   B      D#      F#                     B   Major
II      C#      E      G#                  C#   Minor
III         D#      F#      A#               D#   Minor
IV            E      G#      B            E   Major
V               F#      A#      C#         F#   Major
VI                  G#      B      D#      G#   Minor
VII                     A#      C#      E   A#   Dim
                                       
                                 
Try these with the example on page 23 "So the key is A.................. etc."
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                
                                                

Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: flyhead on January 30, 2011, 12:39:26 am
Interesting, but a little difficult to view thanks to the loss of tabular format. You could make a screenshot of the original spreadsheet and upload to Photobucket (or similar),and link the URL to the page.
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: close2u on January 30, 2011, 08:08:23 am
if you are still within the edit time period

go back and modify your post and use the
 and 
commands to straighten it up


 before the info


after
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: misterg on January 30, 2011, 03:30:08 pm
if you are still within the edit time period

go back and modify your post and use the
 and 
commands to straighten it up


 before the info


after

I think Mr. C  means:

"if you are still within the edit time period

go back and modify your post and use the [pre] and [/pre] commands to straighten it up


[pre] before the info


[/pre] after"

Andy
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: close2u on January 30, 2011, 05:38:07 pm
nicely done misterg

I didn't look at my post once posted and wasn't thinking that the pre and /pre wouldn't be visible   :D   d'oh
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: Chasecar on March 15, 2012, 02:06:51 am
Can someone clarify what these intervals are teaching us????

In the notes it mentions that "these exercises are here to teach us Key signatures"

Sorry to be such a dunce but i don't understand what i am learning, i understand that songs are in different keys and i know my caged scales in all 5 postions also relevent minors and there relationship with majors, but at the moment i have no idea where this is going!!!

Please if someone could explain roughly what this intervals section is about i would appreciate it very much, as it is fairly involved with filling out all the charts and i am finding it very hard to continue when i have no idea what i am doing!!!

Im kinda with this guy.  Im no theory expert but I would love to be.  I get the relationship between the degree and the chord on the example diagrams so if that is the goal of the lesson then Im solid gold.  However, I dont see that one necessarily has to do with the other except for the fact that it is just an indication as to what the next chord will be (minus the interval quality).  Even if the root is on the 5th or 6th string then the following chords could be anywhere on the fretboard depending on the desired sound and/or corresponding inversion...right?


Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: TB-AV on March 15, 2012, 02:27:09 am
Quote
Even if the root is on the 5th or 6th string then the following chords could be anywhere on the fretboard depending on the desired sound and/or corresponding inversion...right?

Correct..... but read the next to last paragraph. The point is help you locate what you are doing both horizontally and vertical.

Now read next to last sentence in first paragraph.  The rest is for you to figure out. He is only showing two strings.

So yes.... learn those relationships all over the neck.

The more you learn the more everything is intertwined.  The more relationships you see the better.
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: whitekeys26 on June 26, 2012, 05:02:27 pm
okay so i understand the chart of what vermp00 posted above.  I understand how you get the degrees of a key.  I understand that the notes C E and G make up a C chord, and that it is the I degree because C is the Root, E is the 3rd and G is the 5th.  I can apply this to any key and get the seven degrees or the 7 chords.  I understand all that with no issues.

But those two interval charts on page 23 have me sooo confused.  I just can't understand it.  I don't get how you use just the 5th and 6th strings to make an A chord at the 5th fret.  I see the chart and see where 1, 3, and 5 are.  But when he says to but your finger on the R for the root at the 5th fret 6th string and says to make an A chord.  I just don't understand how you make an A chord there.  It is completely going over my head.  a regular A chord is made with 4 strings..how are we supposed to make it on just the 5th and 6th strings?

Or am I completely miss understanding this lesson? 
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: misterg on June 26, 2012, 05:25:02 pm
... those two interval charts on page 23 have me sooo confused.  I just can't understand it.  I don't get how you use just the 5th and 6th strings to make an A chord at the 5th fret.  I see the chart and see where 1, 3, and 5 are. .....

Or am I completely miss understanding this lesson?

Hello and welcome :)

I think you're misunderstanding the charts - they are to show you where the root note of the *chords* in a key are, not the notes in a chord.

The '1, 3 and 5' are written I, iii and V on the chart: the roots for the I, iii and V chords in a key. You still need to play chords, but using the notes indicated as root notes (by convention: major chords where the Roman numerals are in upper case, and minor chords where the numerals are in lower case):

So the I chord in the key of A (A major) has its root 6th string 5th fret - the popular option is to play an 'E' shaped barre chord at the 5th fret (but you could just as well play a G shaped barre chord). The corresponding IV chord (D major) has its root on the 5th string, 5th fret - the popular otion is to play an 'A' shaped barre chord at the 5th fret (but you could equally well play a C chaped barre chord), etc.

The 'normal' chords need 3 notes, btw, so as long as you can play those 3 notes, you have the chord. (This leads to playing triads and chord fragments which help to add variety.)

Any clearer?

Andy
Title: Re: Intervals On The Neck - P.22 - Help
Post by: whitekeys26 on June 26, 2012, 09:33:24 pm
Quote
So the I chord in the key of A (A major) has its root 6th string 5th fret - the popular option is to play an 'E' shaped barre chord at the 5th fret (but you could just as well play a G shaped barre chord). The corresponding IV chord (D major) has its root on the 5th string, 5th fret - the popular otion is to play an 'A' shaped barre chord at the 5th fret (but you could equally well play a C chaped barre chord), etc.

Any clearer?

Andy

wow thank you for that. I understand the difference between 1,3,5 and I, III, V..I was just rushing my post.

But yeah you cleared it up tremendously.  It was just that last part at the bottom of the page that completely screwed my brain.  The "Try it now -and check it" section.  When he stated

"So the key is A, Chord I will be A, chord II is one tone higher so that must be B min....."

I just sort of scratched my head and wondered how do you just put your finger on the 6th string at the 5th fret and that be an A chord? So I figured it was a typo and he meant note, not chord.  Then I kept reading and I was like huh? It is a chord? So i tried applying the multiple variations at fingering an A chord while trying to make it work, and I just couldnt figure it out.  But I did not think of using barre chords.

But I understand it all now, wow now its like..."how did I not understand that...." lol