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Title: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: embishop on April 04, 2018, 02:22:31 pm

I was inspired to learn this by bickb, his playing of this version was simply amazing. I don't quite make it to amazing lol, and I didn't even manage the 'vision' I had for the song, which was V2 adding a harmony line and V3 adding a second harmony line, but time has run out since I'll soon be offline and without my guitar for a few weeks. There's lots I could say about the imperfections, but I'll just leave it at what it is for now. I hope to be back practicing soon to keep working towards the 'vision'.

https://soundcloud.com/user-515453056/hallelujah/s-pDrVi

Keep playing!

Mari
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: DarrellW on April 04, 2018, 02:58:01 pm
Sounds good to me! Don’t knock yourself, ok more layers would make it better but you’ve definitely got the essence of it, well done!
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: DavidP on April 04, 2018, 05:06:05 pm
Mary,

Congrats on what you have accomplished here so far.  Guitar sounds pretty good and you have the feel of the song.  Sounding pretty amazing to me, even if not as clean and polished as you desire.

I enjoyed the percussion that came in, particularly in the final verse and chorus. 

Keep plugging away and I know you will reach the performance level you are desiring in due course.

Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: Bytron08 on April 04, 2018, 05:17:27 pm
Very Nice i couldnt do that. Did you fingerpick that? If so very good!
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: embishop on April 05, 2018, 02:05:43 am
Sounds good to me! Don’t knock yourself, ok more layers would make it better but you’ve definitely got the essence of it, well done!

Thanks Darrell, and you're right, I do tend to be pretty hard on myself! Gotta let go of that a little bit ...


Mary,

Congrats on what you have accomplished here so far.  Guitar sounds pretty good and you have the feel of the song.  Sounding pretty amazing to me, even if not as clean and polished as you desire.

I enjoyed the percussion that came in, particularly in the final verse and chorus. 

Keep plugging away and I know you will reach the performance level you are desiring in due course.

Thanks David. The percussion was an afterthought when I couldn't get any harmony lines to work for me but I still wanted to build on the verses a bit. I'm used to playing to a metronome or drum track but this was much different, even though a simpler beat, because I added it after the guitar. Maybe if I do all of the verses in the song and keep adding one drum per verse I'll have a full blown percussion sound going - and then some!!


Very Nice i couldnt do that. Did you fingerpick that? If so very good!

Thanks Byron, yes I am fingerpicking the song. It's the first one I've tried with the melody and not just the chords, so now of course it's opened up a whole new array of songs I'd like to learn!
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: batwoman on April 05, 2018, 04:53:55 am
Good work Mari, perhaps better than you give yourself credit for. We are always a work in progress, both as musicians and people, you demonstrate all of that.
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: Garfield on April 05, 2018, 07:41:37 am
Very good mari. I agree that everything is work in progress but this is very good don't beat yourself up. I'd love to hear version 2 of this.  It's a really lovely arrangement. I missed bickb's I'll have to go and find that.

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Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: redrhodie on April 05, 2018, 12:24:30 pm
Sounds good, Mari. Nice finger picking! I can't pick out some melody like that. Jealous.

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Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: MrBumble on April 05, 2018, 05:46:04 pm
I missed this when you posted it.

I like it, a good simple treatment, and I especially like the percussive effect.

Thanks for posting and good vibes!
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: oldhead49 on April 05, 2018, 07:02:21 pm
Awesome, Mari. Sounding really good and you are stretching your wings - so fun to hear and see. 


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Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: pkboo3 on April 06, 2018, 03:05:50 am
Pulling out the melody within the chords. That is very nice. Hope to get to that point some day. Lovely.


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Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: kontenda on April 12, 2018, 12:11:58 pm
Really well played embishop - sounded very intricate.  I'm a big fan of pairing a song down to just the acoustic guitar - so for me I didn't think the drums were necessary - the guitar playing was lovely and that was what I wanted to hear.
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: phx1973 on April 14, 2018, 09:48:49 pm
excellent job. I like the drum track, even if you would have preferred more layers.
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: john256 on April 16, 2018, 11:24:11 am
It's a nice piece of fingerstyle; where did you get the arrangement?

I like the idea of adding a simple drum-track but the timing's a bit loose so on balance I'd rather listen without it and focus on the pretty guitar did you do this in one take or add the drums after/before?

One other minor nit-pick, there's quite a lot of noise as I can mentally see you trying to change the shapes fast enough - even though you're playing is pretty much bang on they make it feel a bit panicked. I've no idea how you minimise this though, if it's technique or the guitar or the recording.

Good job :)
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: Barend on April 17, 2018, 09:41:32 pm
This is lovely Mari. I really want to be able to create these lovely sounds myself one day. Good going!

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Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: AdamT on April 23, 2018, 04:45:50 am
Wow, Mari!  That was great! 

Your guitar parts sound incredible!  I especially like the chord you pick during the first part of the chorus (maybe a min7 chord?).

I hope you re-visit this to bring alive your "vision" with more layers/harmonies.  Thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: embishop on April 27, 2018, 11:42:03 pm
Thanks for the comments everyone. I've been away from my iPhone and my guitar for awhile, just trying to catch up now.

Good work Mari, perhaps better than you give yourself credit for. We are always a work in progress, both as musicians and people, you demonstrate all of that.

Sometimes you read just what you need to read.  Thanks Batwoman.

Very good mari. I agree that everything is work in progress but this is very good don't beat yourself up. I'd love to hear version 2 of this.  It's a really lovely arrangement. I missed bickb's I'll have to go and find that.

Thanks Garfield, once I get back to playing I'll be working on version 2 of this one for awhile I think. If you didn't track down bickb's version yet do look for it, it's beautiful.

Sounds good, Mari. Nice finger picking! I can't pick out some melody like that. Jealous.

Thanks Lynn. And just a note - I'm jealous of your ability to keep putting out original music! That's one of my aspirations too :)

I missed this when you posted it.

I like it, a good simple treatment, and I especially like the percussive effect.

Thanks for posting and good vibes!

Thanks Mr Bumble. Sometimes simple can be very effective. That's what drew me to this version after hearing bickb play it.

Awesome, Mari. Sounding really good and you are stretching your wings - so fun to hear and see. 

Thanks Dave. Listening to bickb's arrangements has me interested in learning some classical guitar arrangements now for sure!

Pulling out the melody within the chords. That is very nice. Hope to get to that point some day. Lovely.

Thanks Pam, I'm glad you liked it. :)

Really well played embishop - sounded very intricate.  I'm a big fan of pairing a song down to just the acoustic guitar - so for me I didn't think the drums were necessary - the guitar playing was lovely and that was what I wanted to hear.

Thanks Kontenda. I liked it just with the acoustic guitar too, but I thought 1 verse was too short and then with 3 verses I thought I needed to add a layer or two and the guitar harmony layers I wanted to add didn't work out so I went for the percussion - which for me is always harder to add after the fact than to set them up first so there's a beat to play too.

excellent job. I like the drum track, even if you would have preferred more layers.

Thanks phx. I liked the drums as an alternative to the guitar harmonies I wanted to add! :)

It's a nice piece of fingerstyle; where did you get the arrangement?

I like the idea of adding a simple drum-track but the timing's a bit loose so on balance I'd rather listen without it and focus on the pretty guitar did you do this in one take or add the drums after/before?

One other minor nit-pick, there's quite a lot of noise as I can mentally see you trying to change the shapes fast enough - even though you're playing is pretty much bang on they make it feel a bit panicked. I've no idea how you minimise this though, if it's technique or the guitar or the recording.

Good job :)

Thanks John. I heard the arrangement from bickb playing it (check it out under AVOYP, it's lovely), and he told me the arrangement is from Oliver Hecho which you can find on youtube.

Agreed that the timing is a bit loose, I found it hard to add the drums when I recorded the guitar first and intentionally wanted to include some tempo slow downs. I 'played' the drums on iPad Garage Band, 1 track for the bass drum that's on verse 2 and 3, and 1 track for the snare drum that's on verse 3.

That's a good description, 'a bit panicked'! I think that's mostly due to I'm really still learning the song, it's not where I'd like it to be yet so it's not as smooth as I'd like it to be. But, circumstances as they are for me right now that was the latest I could work on it to post something. :)

This is lovely Mari. I really want to be able to create these lovely sounds myself one day. Good going!

Thanks Barend. My strategy is often just to pick something that moves me and then work on learning it, even if it's a bit beyond my current capabilities. :)

Wow, Mari!  That was great! 

Your guitar parts sound incredible!  I especially like the chord you pick during the first part of the chorus (maybe a min7 chord?).

I hope you re-visit this to bring alive your "vision" with more layers/harmonies.  Thanks for sharing.

Thanks Adam. That chord sound was one of the biggest things that drew me to this arrangement - but the arrangement I have is just tab not chords so I hadn't thought about what the chord was.  A-E-B-C are the picked notes - so that makes it an Am variation. The B would be the 7th of the relative major C, but the 2nd or 9th of the Am, so I'm thinking Am9 (?)

I do plan to keep working on this one, and I hope I can eventually play what I think I can hear in my head! :)

Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: close2u on May 06, 2018, 09:37:39 am
Hi Mari, what a leap in playing and style - I love it.
I am so partial to simple finger-picked chord / melody versions of songs.
This is right up my street. I may have to search out that video clip and learn it myself.
You held and allowed so many important melody and harmony notes to ring out that at times it was like a celestial choir.
It wasn't perfect - you know that. But as a work in progress I would say well done, focus in on those small sections where you know you have difficulty and just learn  them as tiny fragments that you eventually put back together in the whole piece again.
I didn't like the rhythm drum part to be honest.
It's a 6/8 song and when fingerpicking it like this you can be very loose and fluid with your tempo so sticking in a rigid beat somehow detracts for me.

Great job.
I do want to hear your next version too.
:)
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: embishop on May 07, 2018, 01:08:56 am
Hi Mari, what a leap in playing and style - I love it.
I am so partial to simple finger-picked chord / melody versions of songs.
This is right up my street. I may have to search out that video clip and learn it myself.
You held and allowed so many important melody and harmony notes to ring out that at times it was like a celestial choir.
It wasn't perfect - you know that. But as a work in progress I would say well done, focus in on those small sections where you know you have difficulty and just learn  them as tiny fragments that you eventually put back together in the whole piece again.
I didn't like the rhythm drum part to be honest.
It's a 6/8 song and when fingerpicking it like this you can be very loose and fluid with your tempo so sticking in a rigid beat somehow detracts for me.

Great job.
I do want to hear your next version too.
:)

Thanks for the input Richard. When I'm back to practicing that will be a good plan - practice the bits I don't know!!
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: justinguitar on May 17, 2018, 10:07:41 am
Like it - nice and strong pulse and the arrangement is well done - one suggestion if I may - is that when you play the instrumental melody for the chorus it needs to be a little stronger, even if you slowed a little at that point to really bring it out! Because it's such a strong melody it needs to be 'up front'.

I don't think you need the drums :) sound lovely just with the guitar - and it will give you more freedom to play with the tempo!

But sounds very nice!
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: embishop on May 17, 2018, 04:19:06 pm
Like it - nice and strong pulse and the arrangement is well done - one suggestion if I may - is that when you play the instrumental melody for the chorus it needs to be a little stronger, even if you slowed a little at that point to really bring it out! Because it's such a strong melody it needs to be 'up front'.

I don't think you need the drums :) sound lovely just with the guitar - and it will give you more freedom to play with the tempo!

But sounds very nice!

Thanks for listening and for your input Justin. On listening back - definitely the dynamics should flow to a stronger sound in the chorus! As an instrumental without words I didn't really even think about a separation between verse and chorus.
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: Fourtwo on May 18, 2018, 01:01:56 am
Mari,
Forgive but I thought I'd commented on this already, but come to find out I haven't. Anyway it was lovely and your picking is very clear and accurate. I have no problem with the drum track, but it's difficult to get it to sound accurate if you overdub drums after the fact. I would suggest maybe playing to a metronome and then syncing the drums to the metronome if you do want to fill them in later. That way the timing will be a little tighter. That's nit picking though. Really nice sound.
Neil
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: embishop on May 20, 2018, 02:04:39 pm
Mari,
Forgive but I thought I'd commented on this already, but come to find out I haven't. Anyway it was lovely and your picking is very clear and accurate. I have no problem with the drum track, but it's difficult to get it to sound accurate if you overdub drums after the fact. I would suggest maybe playing to a metronome and then syncing the drums to the metronome if you do want to fill them in later. That way the timing will be a little tighter. That's nit picking though. Really nice sound.
Neil

Thanks for listening and commenting Neil. I'm still mulling over the drum track. The problem with playing to a drum track is that it doesn't leave any room for tempo variations, slowing the tempo down in spots in particular. I didn't really achieve the tempo slow down between verse/chorus that I wanted anyway, so there's lots I could work on in a Version 2.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: DavidP on May 20, 2018, 03:03:11 pm
Thanks for listening and commenting Neil. I'm still mulling over the drum track. The problem with playing to a drum track is that it doesn't leave any room for tempo variations, slowing the tempo down in spots in particular. I didn't really achieve the tempo slow down between verse/chorus that I wanted anyway, so there's lots I could work on in a Version 2.

Thanks again.
This is a though-provoking conversation for me ...

I think you could create a drum track using a DAW and MIDI track that has changes in tempo (I am assuming not recording the drum track like I think Fox did on his one take track using some kind of an input device, where you could change the tempo through your playing) for say verse and chorus. And once created then the MIDI could be rendered to audio to create a backing track that could have it's overall tempo adjusted to suit your playing.

The issue as I see it would be that the changes are predetermined and fixed.  So what you can't have is a more "human" variance in tempo shaped by your own playing as you go.  A couple of times Close2u (and I think you also Mari  :))  has commented on my songs, pointing out where my tempo has drifted or I have even dropped or added a beat or two.  And this was deemed OK where the overall song and performance sounded good, rather than sloppy, albeit not technically perfect.

So I think when you play without that drum-track you can play with a freedom and flexibility that you don't have when adding in other instruments, when you are making a multi-track song in the studio.  I suppose if it was a full band then again the tempo could drift a little provided the band stayed in sync. A musical friend once told me that if you listen to live recordings you may notice how often a band will tend to speed up at times through a song, when they get excited and "into" the song.
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: embishop on May 20, 2018, 04:37:19 pm
David, definitely the 'human variance' and freedom and flexibility to go with the emotion of the moment is as you say what you can't get with a pre-recorded drum track, even when you can insert tempo changes into the track. I guess I could talk to my drummer friend Dee, I'm sure she would play live with me! There we go, problem solved lol. :)
Title: Re: 002 2018 Hallelujah
Post by: DavidP on May 20, 2018, 08:04:37 pm
Drummer, guitarist, vocalist ... sounds like you have the making of a full band over there Mari.  Is it a fair assumption that Dee is a lady?  If so, find another lady to play bass and you can have "Four Jills without a Jack" :)