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Justin Lessons on Basics, Essentials & Beyond => Chord Lessons (CH) => Topic started by: justinguitar on August 15, 2012, 03:12:32 pm

Title: CH-900 • CAGED Logic
Post by: justinguitar on August 15, 2012, 03:12:32 pm
Lesson Link:  http://www.justinguitar.com/en/CH-900-CAGED-Logic.php

Title: Re: CH-900 • CAGED Logic
Post by: reilly on December 02, 2013, 10:13:30 pm
I have looked at the lessons online.  I have read thru Practical Music Theory.  I get that I can move chord shapes and the names change based upon the number of semitones I move the shape.

The lesson page says I should "understand what it is and how it works and WHY it's so important."  Well, other than moving a chord, I don't understand what CAGED tells me **or** why it is important.

It is mildly interesting that the ordering of the chords, when I start with the F maj, is EDCAG, so it spells a word by circular-shifting the letters 2 places left.

What am I missing?  What is CAGED supposed to tell me?


Title: Re: CH-900 • CAGED Logic
Post by: stitch101 on December 02, 2013, 11:45:06 pm
There are 5 open major chords on a guitar. They are C A G E D hence the name CAGED. These 5 chords
can create every chord on the fret board. By barring them and moving them up the fret board.
It also related to scale shapes, arpeggios and everything else associated with the fret board. 
I could go on for hours explaining and giving you example or you could just take Justin's lessons on the
CAGED system.
Title: Re: CH-900 • CAGED Logic
Post by: close2u on December 03, 2013, 06:44:39 am
CAGED ... or EDCAG to put it in the order that is actually used in practice ...

5 shapes to play barre chords
5 patterns to play major scales (and hence minor scales, pentatonic scales and modal scales)
5 patterns to play arpeggios of major, minor, 7th etc chords

that's plenty right there
Title: Re: CH-900 • CAGED Logic
Post by: TB-AV on December 03, 2013, 04:14:21 pm
It is mildly interesting that the ordering of the chords, when I start with the F maj, is EDCAG, so it spells a word by circular-shifting the letters 2 places left.

You are correct, that is only mildly interesting.  It should be obvious to most that everything on the guitar repeats itself and is ordered.. the 12th fret on each string basically starts over again from square one. Same for each string.

So we know the guitar is fix and repeats and that is mildly interesting and pretty easy to understand.

Now... dig a little deeper. Each SHAPE also has an order. A musical order. For instance the E SHAPE from low to high spells 1 5 1 3 5 1 on the strings which is a major chord.

so you have 5 SHAPES and 5 ORDERES. Each order is different. For instance the A SHAPE is ordered low to high.... 5 1 5 1 3 5 ... still a major chord but the order of notes is different.

A Major Triad chord is spelled 1 3 5. The first inversion is spelled 5 1 3 hmmmmm that's the same as the A SHAPE.. Now look at the C SHAPE... it's order is 3 1 3 5 1 3 ... the second inversion of a Triad is 3 5 1... notice the 3 5 1  sits in that C SHAPE

So0 the SHAPES help you see inversions rather quickly. Now what if you combine a couple of shapes? What if you need a chord other than a triad. Like something with a b9 or a #5... can you find it at any given point on the neck?

Now CAGED becomes a bit more than simply mildly interesting. It's the road marker system. It's like waypoints on a gps.

Practical example.
Chord Prog. Am G F E7
If you play root notes on the b string descending you will notice that the F note falls into the A SHAPE for a Dm chord. So over that chord you could play your old familiar D minor pent at 10th fret ( which also happens to be F maj pent G SHAPE )

It basically becomes an endless web of potential. For instance rather than use it as "go to" device, you can find yourself playing certain melody notes and simply say... ok, what do those notes form in reverse as a SHAPE or partial SHAPE and thus what chord might that be? You will find it is not always the chord that you are playing over. As in example above the chord playing was F Major but the melody could be visualized or conceptualized out of Dm.... or maybe even a Eb9 because that F gets some resolution from the E chord and it then resolves to the A.

So if you got to thinking about all that stuff you might want to know how to play a certain E Scale at that certain location on the neck near the 4th fret.

IOW, once you dig a little deeper it's pretty much only limited by your imagination.
Title: Re: CH-900 • CAGED Logic
Post by: 62newbie on September 25, 2018, 10:45:30 pm
Is the main purpose of the CAGED system to make it easier to locate the triads on the fret board? It seems between the barre E and barre A, along with say a mini F chord moved up the neck that's all you need to cover chords for rhythm playing.
 It looks like you just need to know the G/D/C barre chord patterns for triads but not really for playing chords. Am I totally wrong here?
Title: Re: CH-900 • CAGED Logic
Post by: close2u on September 25, 2018, 11:36:28 pm
Short, confusing, philosophical answer.
CAGED wasn't invented to serve s purpose.
CAGED is the very essence of the standard tuning guitar. It is its intrinsic nature. It's entire body and soul. CAGED is the way a guitar is.
Title: Re: CH-900 • CAGED Logic
Post by: stitch101 on September 25, 2018, 11:47:06 pm
First off the mini F is the bottom 4 strings of the E shape so don't think
of it as it's own shape.
As for the CAGED system it's self, chords and barre chords are only a small
portion of what it is.
It is how the neck of the guitar works for everything, How everythings joins
together as one long scale in every key. Knowing this is how people like Justin
can put their fingers anywhere, play and name the note they are playing.

Open chords and Barre chords are only a small partion of guitar as well .
As you understand the system more you will find all sorts of things opening
up to you.
My favorite saying that Justin says in one of his videos is

The more you know the more you know you don't know. (Something like that)
Meaning, as you learn the circle just keeps getting bigger and there is more to
Title: Re: CH-900 • CAGED Logic
Post by: tobyjenner on September 26, 2018, 12:21:09 am
What Stitch is saying is the more you learn, you learn there is so much more to learn.
To me and a simple view is the CAGED system or more relevantly the EDCAG system is how the guitar seamlessly threads together. From E to G to E and beyond. Follow the EDCAG scale shapes up and down the neck from Open to fret 12 and beyond. Visualize  the the chords within those 5 shapes. Then see those 5 shapes across the strings from E to e. From here you will see triads all over the neck and partial chord shapes and the world is your oyster. Simples, well not so simples but with a little focus and hard work, well yes Simples.

Title: Re: CH-900 • CAGED Logic
Post by: 62newbie on September 26, 2018, 12:38:45 am
I over looked the F as part of the E barre Thanks for pointing that out. I understand the 5 shapes and how they connect and how the 5 scale positions overlap the 5 CAGED chords and even the fact that within each of the 5 shapes there are triads that make up the cord. That all makes sense for music theory. I just don't see myself ever playing G or D barre chords. Maybe some day way way down the road I'll be able to do it. Than again probably not.         
Title: Re: CH-900 • CAGED Logic
Post by: tobyjenner on September 26, 2018, 12:54:23 am

Despite the reason and logic there are some shapes you never play in full. That's down to the limitations of the mechanics of your hand, so for those shapes you mention, you'll play just part of the chord. D and G fall into that and you pick the triad shapes with in the "CAGED" shape that are easier to grab. Certainly true for me with small hands where I struggle stretching for some shapes. You'll suddenly see the reachable triad shape and say hey that works for me. Hendrix chords being a classic example.  8) 
Title: Re: CH-900 • CAGED Logic
Post by: Majik on September 26, 2018, 12:57:26 am
There are some D shape (for instance) chords that are useful. The simple triad on strings 1, 2 and 3 as an example: just shift the open D chord up and only play the top 3 strings.

Also major and minor 7th chord D shapes are quite useful and easy to play.



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Title: Re: CH-900 • CAGED Logic
Post by: stitch101 on September 26, 2018, 01:04:47 am
You probably will never use them as barre chords but you will use then playing
solos, melody lines, inversions and tons of other things.
It all boils down to how far you want to take your playing. I jam regularly with
people who play very well and play nothing but open chords and a few barre
chords like F#m. So if that all your looking to do use you practice time learning
songs and things you enjoy. You don't need to learn much theory ore caged.
But if you want to play all over the neck whether it be rock solos or instrumental
finger style. The caged system will be a huge part of learning.
Title: Re: CH-900 • CAGED Logic
Post by: 62newbie on September 26, 2018, 02:58:27 am
OK Thanks all for the feed back. The idea of just playing the triads sound like the road I'll travel when it comes to D and G barres.
Title: Re: CH-900 • CAGED Logic
Post by: close2u on September 26, 2018, 07:33:59 am
Even if the skill is way beyond you at the moment, for interest and some insight, watch Justin's recent videos on the Hendrix / Mayfield rhythm technique.

If I recall correctly he had one of his own and one as a Rutbuster with Lee Anderton. I don't think the rutbuster was his best ever presentation of this material tbh, but it gives a flavour of how, for example, the partial G-shape barre (not the full barre chord but a bit of it with hammer-ons etc) can be so valuable to creating tasty guitar parts.