Justin Guitar Community

Intermediate Course & Style Modules => Intermediate Course (IM) Lesson Specific Questions => Topic started by: justinguitar on December 03, 2010, 03:24:51 pm

Title: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: justinguitar on December 03, 2010, 03:24:51 pm
Questions...

Lesson Link: http://www.justinguitar.com/en/CH-008-Triads.php
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: Svenshinhan on March 27, 2011, 05:06:42 am
I'm not sure if this is intended or not, but the link in the IM foundation list leads to an old 2007 or 2008 lesson on triad chord grips, and not to the lesson page with the proper IM 151 foundation video.

I could only find that IM 151 video by specifically looking for it on YouTube, not from anywhere on the site (that may also be why it doesn't have the same high number of views on YT as the other vids, because people aren't directed to it through the site).
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: komani86 on May 17, 2011, 01:02:01 pm
Had the same aswell, but I think on the site its broken down more, so its easier to follow.
I also noticed that I dont care for triad chords (on acoustic atleast) much.. I just practice them now, but i dont know.. I miss the bass strings I guess?

Also, I try to palm mute the last 3 strings, but I notice its harder to strum freely then.
I think I saw people reaching over with their thumb to mute the 5th,6th string and mute the 4th with the finger thats on the 3rd string.. wise to master the grips/changes (which aint hard at all) first before doing that or just do it all at once?
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: sophiehiker on May 17, 2011, 02:25:48 pm
It was a revelation to me to find that triad chords can be found hidden within barre chord grips.

For example, grab a C# minor barre, root on the 5th string.  Lift up the pinkie and you have an E major triad on the 2-3-4 strings.  Makes the chord change super easy!

Grab a A major barre, root on the 6th string.  Move ring and pinkie fingers (I'll let you figure out how) and you have a F# minor on the 2-3-4 strings.

Neat and easy!

Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: joshs on October 08, 2011, 02:09:26 am
Something I'm trying to get my head around is how some (all?) 7th chords contain two triads. A major 7th has a major triad (of course), but also a minor triad (up a 3rd from the root). m7th has the reverse. m7b5 has a diminished triad and a minor triad. Diminished 7th... well it has four diminished triads. Dominant 7th has a major triad and then a diminished triad up a 3rd. It's weird to think about how the sounds work together in those chords and also how to make use of these "hidden" triads when playing along with other people, especially if someone is covering the bass notes. Or how about if someone else in the band plays a triad and the bass player tosses in the right bass note to make it sound like a 7th chord by playing a "new root".

It was a revelation to me to find that triad chords can be found hidden within barre chord grips.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: sophiehiker on October 08, 2011, 02:28:52 pm

+1 @joshs.  Your explaination makes this much clearer.  Thanks.

I was watching George Harrison play rhythm on "All my Loving" and trying to figure out what he was doing. 

He grabs a C#m7, while John's playing a Emajor triad.  He grabs a DMaj7/A, when John's playing a F#m triad.

Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: joshs on October 08, 2011, 07:14:15 pm
Just goes to show, anything you can possibly think of musically, "Beatles did it!" ;-)
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: artonsafari on November 07, 2011, 10:24:36 pm
So I decided that I'd figure out the Minor, Augmented, and Diminished versions of these triads as I was bored and had just recently done the Practical Music Theory lesson on Chord Theory Use.

Ok, Justin said to work out the grips for the Minor triads.
Got them done and continued to Augmented and I saw something neat. All three Augmented triad patterns are the same, only the root note shifts strings.

Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: jesseJay on January 07, 2012, 11:56:40 pm
Questions...

Lesson Link: http://www.justinguitar.com/en/CH-008-Triads.php

Hi!
I have a question regarding "finger-posture" regarding playing triades and the like.
Down to approx. the 5th fret (frets 1-5) I can use a "slanted" finger-style to get the e.g. strings 1 and 2 (5th fret) pressed down simultaneously with the tip of my 1st finger (e.g. for  G-major, strings 1,2,3, shape 1). Below the 5th fret I cannot do that! Instead I have to use a somewhat "classical" finger-posture (thumb below neck) to get the 2 strings pressed simultaneously with a larger portion of my 1st finger. So, what is the "correct" (if any) finger posture for playing triades (and also the shapes for the "chips" in a later lesson)? Thanks for helping! Best Wishes from Germany, Juergen 
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: joshuade on March 01, 2013, 02:28:13 am
A technical question here:

I noticed that at the end of the video, Justin mentioned the fact that you need to use your strumming hand to mute the lowest three strings (E,A,D). For some reason, I'm having quite a difficult time learn this technique because when I do it, my palm will either mute the G string when I'm strumming or will reduce my wrist's range of motion making 8th or 16th strumming very difficult. Which part of my hand specifically do I use to mute the lowest three strings and how do I ensure that the G string won't be interrupted? I've tried using my thumb to mute the lowest two strings but it can't reach the third one. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: joshs on March 01, 2013, 06:06:09 am
Could use your palm, similar to palm muting. I usually just use my left fingers (whichever is convenient) to mute the 4th string and avoid hitting the top two (not too difficult).
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: joshuade on March 01, 2013, 08:21:33 pm
Yeah I just find it very difficult to strum when palm muting. I don't know how Justin does it to be honest.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: joshs on March 02, 2013, 01:43:52 am
I think it definitely makes it harder, but it's like anything, you can learn. But like I said, I find it much easier to use my fret hand to mute. That way, you don't have to worry about it at all.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: vikingking on June 18, 2013, 10:26:39 pm
Hello Everyone,

Of the three major triad shapes on the GBE strings all of them can be played by holding a standard 5th string or 6th string barre shape, except the D shape one.

is there any reason why I would learn these two with the fingering in the lessons, ie. with three fingers, rather than just use my barre shapes.  Note: In my case my fingers seem the right length for the high e string to ring out on the 5th string barre.

It would be easier if I don't have to play them with a new shape and it perhaps allows more flexibility in the playing.  I'm sure there's something I may not have thought of though or some good reason further down the line.

Can anyone offer some thoughts?

Thanks, Bernard.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: joshs on June 19, 2013, 03:20:52 am
I'd say only one of the triads is easily playable from the barre version. The barre chord based on the open A shape is really hard to get the high string to ring out on. Also, if you're playing a quick succession of these triads, it's faster not to involve a full barre. But probably the biggest advantage is that you can easily get the high strings to ring out without any of the lower ones. All that said, I use 'em cause I like 'em :-)
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: vikingking on June 19, 2013, 10:44:02 am
Thanks, some good thoughts there.  Particularly the the speed one.  I think I'll learn both ways of doing it.

I find that connecting the triad to the barre chord helps me work out the root note.  The recognition that they're the same too feels like it offers a bit of flexibility too.

Good stuff.  Thank you.   :)
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: Oddo on July 27, 2013, 12:57:48 pm
Can you explain me how to form triads on strings 3,4,5?.Is it important the finger which plays the root like in the shapes that Justin taught us?
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: sophiehiker on July 27, 2013, 05:23:40 pm
@Oddo, do you mean strings 2,3,4?  I think Justin asks you, in this lesson, to find the triads on strings 2,3,4.

Anyway. there will be three shapes for a major chord and three shapes for a minor chord.  The root note will appear once on each string.

Take a D major chord for example.  It consists of the notes D F# A.  Where is the D note on the second string?  It's on the third fret.   Where is the nearest A note?  It's on the third string, second fret.  How about F#?  It's on the fourth string, fourth fret. 

That's it!  The D major triad is xx423x.  Now you can move that shape up and down the neck to make different major chords.  The root will always be on the second string.

Now you can find the triad shapes with the root note on the third and fourth strings.  Hope that helps.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: mouser9169 on July 27, 2013, 06:41:08 pm
Can you explain me how to form triads on strings 3,4,5?.Is it important the finger which plays the root like in the shapes that Justin taught us?

Every group of three strings has triad shapes. The root note is what names the chord, what fingering you use isn't the main thing. Each triad has two inversions. So there are three shapes for a major chord triad on strings 6,5,4; three on strings 5,4,3; three on strings 4,3,2; and three on strings 3,2,1. That isn't counting 'odd' voicings like R 5 3 (not a normal inversion). You can also make triads skipping strings, I suppose if you really get technical.

If you remember the major shape and which notes are the root, third, and fifth, then you know to drop the third to make it minor, drop the 5th from there to make it diminished, and from the major, raise the 5th to make it augmented - so you can make four triads by remembering one.

Loads and loads of shapes to learn - take your time with it. It's better to have two shapes you really understand than 40 you don't. They're great for learning the fretboard - loads of things you can do. One day you can find every G major triad on the neck. Another day pick another note. Eventually the stuff sinks in as you use them when you play.


For your question: A D major triad on strings 3, 4, 5 in root position (R 3 5) would be x 5 4 2 x x it's the basic shape for both the C and G chords (G is the same shape moved over to 4, 5, 6) The shape is always the same for those two string sets. Remember everything moves a fret when you cross the 2nd string. D major in first inversion (3 5 R) is x 9 7 7 x x. D major in 2nd inversion (5 R 3) is x 12 12 10 xx
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: stitch101 on July 27, 2013, 06:47:42 pm
Can you explain me how to form triads on strings 3,4,5?.Is it important the finger which plays the root like in the shapes that Justin taught us?

You can form triads any where on the neck. A simple example of a triad on the 2 3 4 strings is the open
A major or A minor chords just play the three strings that are fretted. An example on the 3 4 5 is an
E major or E minor in both examples the three fretted (one open string for the minor) are the R 3rd(3b)
and 5th but not in that order. These are also movable chords just like Barre chords.

Edit  Was typing when mouser posted
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: TB-AV on July 27, 2013, 11:38:30 pm
Can you explain me how to form triads on strings 3,4,5?.Is it important the finger which plays the root like in the shapes that Justin taught us?

Learn the CAGED shapes and how each is comprised of notes 1 3 5 and that is a Major triad. 5 Shapes or 5 open chords and you will see triads all over the neck no matter which strings you choose to use.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: dezag.c on October 16, 2013, 08:20:43 pm
Great lesson on triads
 I am struggling to play the first shape  using my first finger to barr the  first and second strings

I play it with my first finger on the root note on the first string, my second finder on the  second string and my third finger on the third string

is it ok to keep playing this way or should I keep practising  trying to barr  first and second strings

I find when I do that and put my second finger down on the third string it muets the second string  put my third

does anyone have any suggestions

thanks

derek
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: TheReplicant on October 16, 2013, 08:56:58 pm
Great lesson on triads
 I am struggling to play the first shape  using my first finger to barr the  first and second strings

I play it with my first finger on the root note on the first string, my second finder on the  second string and my third finger on the third string

is it ok to keep playing this way or should I keep practising  trying to barr  first and second strings

I find when I do that and put my second finger down on the third string it muets the second string  put my third

does anyone have any suggestions

thanks

derek

I think that if you're doing the changes fast enough it doesn't matter. I'd persevere with the recommended way, though. Try and bring your palm forward, directly under the neck and see if it stops you muting the b string. You can also raise your second finger slightly so it's muting the d string as most of the time it's not played anyway (it is in Substitute, however). That will give more clearance of the b string.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: stitch101 on October 16, 2013, 10:19:17 pm
The first shape is the E shape in the caged system which also is the mini bare shape so you should learn
it with the mini barre index finger because your going to have learn to sooner or later and there's no
time like the present. Try barring the first 3 strings instead of just the first 2. This will bring your hand
up high and help miss the third string with your middle finger

(http://www.justinguitar.com/images/CH_images/CH-008-Triad-1.gif)

(http://www.justinguitar.com/images/BCv2_images/161-F-chord-no65.gif)

(http://www.justinguitar.com/images/BCv2_images/161-F-chord-no6.gif)

(http://www.justinguitar.com/images/BCv2_images/161-F-chord-full.gif)
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: lugnut on April 16, 2014, 03:07:14 pm
Triad shape 1 is a killer for me.  Either I can't barre the B/E strings well or my 2nd finger ends up touching the B string.  Ughh… this isn't easy.  The other shapes will take more time to get quick but at least mechanically they seem manageable.  Great lesson/drills to really learn all the notes on the neck for sure!
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: TheCasual on August 01, 2014, 06:48:37 pm
Sometimes I like to use triads instead full barre chords. Is this okay? I use my thumb to mute strings 6 and 5 and my third finger to mute the fourth.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: shadowscott007 on August 01, 2014, 07:16:48 pm
Yes.

Shadow
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: Oren on August 08, 2015, 01:53:24 pm
I'm really struggling with using the palm mute Justin recommends when playing triads. I see I'm not the only person. Is it ok to just play with the tip of the relevant left hand finger muting the string above and the left hand thumb muting the thickest string?

I'd like to learn to do it the 'proper' way. Does anyone have any tips on hand position and how to palm mute effectively here too please? (I've watched the video in both the intermediate course and the three part older lessons).

Thanks!
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: crlozano12 on May 24, 2016, 11:39:52 pm
For the g major triad is it acceptable to use your 3rd finger instead of the 2nd or is that considered bad technique? I can do it with my 2nd, but it definitely will take more practice than if I just used my 3rd finger which feels more comfortable.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: shadowscott007 on May 25, 2016, 02:26:53 am
Not sure which you mean.  The three shapes are 1 E shape, 2 D shape, and 3 A shape.  They are the top three notes of the open E, D and A chord respectively.

I assume you are talking about shape 1.  You can do anything want, but

1 - the fingers shown match those used if you are playing a full barre chord version of the E shape.
2 - generally avoiding doing things ONLY because they are harder is a bad habit to get into and can lead to issues down the line.

Shadow

Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: Litzout on February 03, 2017, 06:16:43 pm
crlozano12, you are probably not struggling with this any longer as I am writing this several months after your last post.  But I was having exactly the same issue as you:  I could only get the shape 1 major triad correct if I used my 1st and 3rd fingers rather than 1st and 2nd that Justin recommends.  The B string was always muted.  But I eventually figured out what I was doing wrong, so I am posting this in case anyone else comes along and has the same issue. 

I figured out that I was barring the wrong way with my first finger.  I was initially rolling my first finger a bit toward the fret and toward my middle finger.  This closed down my grip and put my 3rd finger in a better position than my 2nd finger to fret the G string.  Eventually I figured out that I needed to roll my 1st finger the other way: away from the fret and toward my thumb.  This opened up my grip and allowed me to get the 2nd finger placed properly on the G string. 
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: ntha on November 30, 2017, 03:17:33 pm
I have just finished this lesson.

I'm not sure it was mentioned but IMO it is recommended taking this lesson after going through the "Practical Music Theory" and "Chord Construction Guide" books. I did and it is very helpful.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: milo52 on January 22, 2018, 04:12:26 am
What is the fingering for the A shape triad on the 2-3-4 strings?   If I use the fingering taught by Justin for the open A chord, I have trouble fitting my fingers in the higher,smaller frets.  Using the second,third and fourth fingers is better but not great.  Is barring the three strings recommended?


Sent from my iPad using JustinGuitar.com Forum
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: Joerfe on January 22, 2018, 07:27:08 am
What is the fingering for the A shape triad on the 2-3-4 strings?   If I use the fingering taught by Justin for the open A chord, I have trouble fitting my fingers in the higher,smaller frets.  Using the second,third and fourth fingers is better but not great.  Is barring the three strings recommended?

For that particular triad I usually bar the strings, but it depends on where I come from on the neck or where I am going to next.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: jtbrown1 on January 25, 2018, 06:27:23 pm
For that particular triad I usually bar the strings, but it depends on where I come from on the neck or where I am going to next.
I bar the three strings with my index finger.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: Joerfe on January 25, 2018, 07:59:17 pm
I bar the three strings with my index finger.

 You can also use your ring finger. Again, it depends on how/what you are playing before and after that particular chord.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: Garfield on November 22, 2018, 01:04:01 pm
I've just seen the old "I shot the sheriff" videos that Justin did as a good song to play with triads. I've been struggling with these a bit. I know them and i want to use them more as i think its a good way to learn the fret board, but I've been having a hard time putting them into practice. I've tried applying them to some songs I know but they don't sound great. Has anyone got any suggestions for songs to try with triads both on strings 1,2,3 and 2,3,4.
Thanks
G

Sent from my [device_name] using JustinGuitar Community mobile app (http://JustinGuitar Community mobile app)

Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: close2u on November 22, 2018, 03:15:22 pm
@ Garfield

Triads came up in a recent jazz video Justin did.
The advice given there was start with one shape and stick with it through a chord progression, even if this involves big movements along the neck.
To use it in a meaningful way along the lines you are thinking, you need to know the major and minor triad shapes.

For any song you know, literally any, that involves only major and minor chords, play arpeggiated triads on three strings only, up and down the neck, using only one shape for major and one for minor.
Let's say you know a song:
Verse: C. G. Am F
Chorus: C. F. G
etc

Play along with it with arpeggiated triads.
Assuming the rhythm is 4/4 play four notes per bar.
Choose a picking pattern and stick to it at first.
Perhaps lowest note to highest (=3) then back down one note.
Later you may want to vary it.
Maybe targeting the root note (if it isn't the lowest note of the triad shape) first.
Use all the same shape for major chords and the related shape for minor chords.

Repeat for a different triad shape on the same strings.
You should be able to follow je three shapes for any group of three adjacent strings.
Once this becomes comfortable stretch yourself by trying to mix and match triad shapes to go along with the progression but without moving so far along the he neck.

If you start with strings 1,2 and 3 then move to strings 2,3 and 4.

After which you should have six major and six minor shapes.
This will allow you to play along with the chord progression with very little lateral movement along the neck.

Rinse and repeat for other chords in other keys.

Try this with lots of songs that you already know.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: stitch101 on November 22, 2018, 06:02:23 pm
Mararitaville by Jimmy Buffett. You can play the whole song using triads.
It's easy to play along with the record and good practices using all the different
shapes. Watch live versions on youtube and play along with the steel drums
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: Garfield on November 22, 2018, 08:45:29 pm
Thanks guys. I get what I should be doing from the vids, it just doesn't seem to be sounding very good with the songs I know. I'll try apegiating them as up till know I've been strumming. I'm going to start I shot the sheriff tonight as that looked loads of fun in the video. Margaritaville is a good shout as well. I guess I was wondering if there are songs or genres of music that use triads a lot. It seems it they work well for reggae.

Sent from my [device_name] using JustinGuitar Community mobile app (http://JustinGuitar Community mobile app)

Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: jono on November 22, 2018, 08:49:18 pm
I also use the backing tracks from the blues rhythm course. I find it easier as there are only three chords each time.

Sent from my [device_name] using JustinGuitar Community mobile app (http://JustinGuitar Community mobile app)

Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: close2u on November 22, 2018, 09:10:07 pm
Just did a search and found  this  (https://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/using-triads-for-melodies-arpeggios-and-rhythm-guitar-part-1--audio-18123) as result 1 …

it has all the diagrams on all adjacent string sets for major and minor triads …
it has suggestions for how to practice …
it has some cool sound samples …

Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: Garfield on November 22, 2018, 09:57:12 pm
Thanks close that is useful. Good tip jono I've got some of Justin's blues backing tracks I might try coming along to them as you say they're just three chords.

Sent from my [device_name] using JustinGuitar Community mobile app (http://JustinGuitar Community mobile app)

Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: sairfingers on June 22, 2020, 05:59:45 pm
Hi Guys I’m having a go at some triad chord shapes.

The suggested fingering for Major triad 1 is shown as first finger mini barre on strings 1&2, second finger on string 3 next fret up.
The fingering for Minor triad 1 is shown as first finger mini barre strings 1,2,3.
I’m playing a song that goes from G to Am. If I barre strings 1,2,3 with my first finger with my second finger on string 3 one fret up, I can then simply slide up from G to Am with my first finger and lift my second finger off string 3. (wow that was hard to put into words!).

Is this ok? Is there a reason I should stick to the suggested shape?
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: close2u on June 22, 2020, 08:29:30 pm
Where you are move by from and where you are moving to can definitely determine your fingering choices.
Your your suggestion works for you so why not.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: sairfingers on June 22, 2020, 09:54:29 pm
Your your suggestion works for you so why not.
Thanks Richard. I was just worried in case there was something ‘round the corner’ that might catch me out later.   
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: stitch101 on June 22, 2020, 11:15:17 pm
Hi Guys I’m having a go at some triad chord shapes.

The suggested fingering for Major triad 1 is shown as first finger mini barre on strings 1&2, second finger on string 3 next fret up.
The fingering for Minor triad 1 is shown as first finger mini barre strings 1,2,3.
I’m playing a song that goes from G to Am. If I barre strings 1,2,3 with my first finger with my second finger on string 3 one fret up, I can then simply slide up from G to Am with my first finger and lift my second finger off string 3. (wow that was hard to put into words!).

Is this ok? Is there a reason I should stick to the suggested shape?


Nothing wrong with doing it that way but I would play the G the way you are and for
Am I use my ring finger to barre the eBG strings at the 5th fret.
Less movement of your hand, just moving one finger.
Unless you want to slide into the Am which also adds some color to your playing.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: sairfingers on June 23, 2020, 07:36:00 am
Nothing wrong with doing it that way but I would play the G the way you are and for
Am I use my ring finger to barre the eBG strings at the 5th fret.
Less movement of your hand, just moving one finger.
Unless you want to slide into the Am which also adds some color to your playing.
Thanks for that stitch. Clearly there is room for more ‘interpretation’ of finger use here than there was in earlier stages of the course.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: tobyjenner on June 23, 2020, 08:41:41 am
Sairfingers

I've been working on G B e Triads myself so you may find this useful. I pulled it together into one diagram showing each chord within the Major scale, in this case A. At the moment to truly memorise the shapes, I have been playing each interval up the scale, linking each of the "clusters" together. So from the A in the 2nd/2nd/Open fret I play each chord stopping at the A at 14th/14th/12th. The plan is then to memorise the patterns going from 12th to Open.

(https://i.imgur.com/YZ8djS0.gif)

Fingering wise I started with the positions I learnt a good while back in the Intermediate but have adjusted them intuitively to minimise movement. So like Stitch I'll barre the 5th fret with my ring finger.

And to really in grain these shapes and positions I am working through the BC app and substituting triads for open chords. I've just started that over the last few days and just working on A & D at the moment.
I'll pick a song and apply the triads in the first 4 frets, then the middle cluster then the next above the 9th. Then jump positions which is kinda sloppy at the moment but getting there.

Also building a diagram for E A D,  A D G and D G B but that's work in progress as the examples I have are all Gs and not intervals within a scale. If I could find these three string groups on Fretjam, that's where the above was sourced, I'll use them as they are likely to be in interval tones.............. hopefully.

Anyway hope the diagram helps.

Cheers

Toby
 8)
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: close2u on June 23, 2020, 08:47:50 am
@sairfingers, @Toby

Just a little reminder of this thread ... triads, chord tones, scales, caged shapes, improv etc.

https://justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=44991.0
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: tobyjenner on June 23, 2020, 10:24:33 am
@sairfingers, @Toby

Just a little reminder of this thread ... triads, chord tones, scales, caged shapes, improv etc.

https://justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=44991.0

Hey a lot has happened since March last year  ;D a year older and more forgetful for sure and too many distractions. Very grateful as it was that kind of direction I was heading. Work on my fingers knowing the triad shapes/positions/inversions intuitively and not just my mental image of yellow box scales !! Then apply that to soloing/impro being the next stage.

Thanks for the nudge Richard, looks like a lot has been added to it since I last dipped my toe in. So will settle down for a long read later. But at least now I have bookmarked the thread. 

Cheers

Toby
 8)
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: sairfingers on June 23, 2020, 03:53:51 pm
Thanks Toby and Richard for all the info and links. Much appreciated. A bit of overload for me at the moment as I’ve only just started trying out triads. I’m trying to fit some of the easier ones into my songs and alternate open chords, barre chords and triads into them. It’s good fun, great practice and I can enjoy playing songs at the same time which is what I like best.

I’ll get back to your stuff once I’m a bit more confident about the basics. One of the things I’m finding difficult is muting the unwanted strings. Justin says to use the edge/heel of your strumming hand but it’s hard to do that and strum at the same time.

Gordon
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: sairfingers on June 23, 2020, 05:06:45 pm
Lightbulb 💡 moment. The Major triad 1 is simply the high 3 strings of the equivalent barre chord!
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: stitch101 on June 23, 2020, 05:29:51 pm
All triads are 3 strings of a barre chord. If you look at the B G and D strings of an
A chord that is the A shaped triad on those 3.strings.
This is what the whole CAGED system is.
It works with every barre chord anywhere on the neck.

I recommed you start with the E and A shaped barre chords first on the e B and G
Strings. Double stops work the same way. If you go back to Closes post on double
stop thirds and add the 5th you will have triads.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: sairfingers on June 24, 2020, 10:06:28 pm
Thanks stitch. This is all fascinating stuff!
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: sairfingers on June 27, 2020, 01:35:31 pm
This has really shown up the weaknesses in my fretboard knowledge. Strings 1,5,6 are perfect due to my E and A barre chord knowledge, however strings 2,3,4 are not so good!

On the positive side, learning to play triad shapes is a fun way to learn the fretboard notes. I’ve got Justin’s fretboard note trainer app which is good, but I find it hard to visually and mentally translate the small screen fretboard to the full size thing when playing.
The different fretboard markings on my acoustic and electric don’t help either although I know I should only be looking at the little markers on the top edge which are the same.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: tobyjenner on June 27, 2020, 11:31:53 pm
Sairfingers

If you know the theory behind the chords and can find the root note its not that difficult. I'll dig out some diagrams tomorrow as its getting late but knowing the relative position of chord intervals makes things so much easier. Many moons ago Stitch put up some scale boxes from Fretjam.com that showed the CAGED scales in INTERVALs not the usual "what fingers to use" that is the common depiction of scales. And this really opened my eyes. And if I know the theory behind a chord and which intervals are needed to construct it I can easily visualise where they are.

So if you know a major chord is I III V or a minor is I IIIB V, those interval diagrams show that V is always on top of the I/Root and III is always 1 string down one fret back (and the IV is always below the I/root great for 12BB ie equals from root drop a string in same fret for IV then go up two frets/two semi tones for V)) so therefore for minors IIIB is one down two back. Ok you have to adjust for the B string but knowing where there intervals are relative to the root makes finding chords so much easier.

If you understand that theoretical approach to chord construction the Stitch Yellow Box diagrams I bang on about make it so much easier to see and understand how triads are constructed across any group of three strings. And across more than 3 strings for open triads.

Cheers

Toby
 8) 

Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: tobyjenner on June 28, 2020, 08:18:43 am
Gordon hope this help you visualise the triads. Although this is just the E shape major scale, the positional relationship applies to the other 4 shapes.

https://imgur.com/a/i7p3rFZ
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: sairfingers on June 29, 2020, 09:13:45 am
Thanks Toby, that diagram is really helpful. I’m making some progress with triads and like everything else, it’s more practice and study that’s required!

The thing I’m not so keen on at the moment is mixing them in with barre and open chords in songs. I’ve been trying this (and of course it’s a good way to learn triads and their relationship) but because they are played on 3 strings they sound ‘thin’ compared to the other chords. I suppose they should really be played as a second guitar along with another guitar playing full chords and the overall effect would be good.
My project this week is to create some some full chord progression loops and then play along using triads.

As an aside, I hope all good with you over in France. We normally take our caravan to France for 3 or 4 weeks in the summer. Not this year! Hopefully by next year things will be back to normal.

Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: stitch101 on June 29, 2020, 04:04:32 pm
Triads and double stops arebest used as fills and rhythm/lead playing.
Margaritaville is a good example of triads. Drift Away is a good example of
double stops.
Doing a loop of a song is a great Idea to practice both triads and double stops.
I keep using both as an example because they are the same shape and are used
in pretty much the same way.

Once you see how scales, chords, diads, triads, double stops all are smaller versions
of each other thing open up all over the neck.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: CT on June 29, 2020, 04:17:31 pm
This has really shown up the weaknesses in my fretboard knowledge. Strings 1,5,6 are perfect due to my E and A barre chord knowledge, however strings 2,3,4 are not so good!

On the positive side, learning to play triad shapes is a fun way to learn the fretboard notes. I’ve got Justin’s fretboard note trainer app which is good, but I find it hard to visually and mentally translate the small screen fretboard to the full size thing when playing.
The different fretboard markings on my acoustic and electric don’t help either although I know I should only be looking at the little markers on the top edge which are the same.
Continue on with whatever courseware you are using now if it is working for you. There are a couple of 5-10 minute games that I play to stay fresh on the fret board:
1. Find all the notes: Pick a note and then locate and play every instance of that note on the fret board.
2. Loop a progression: Lay down a chord or progression in the looper and now play as many chord voices, triads, etc, as you can as an accompaniment.
Note: #1 helps with #2 and opens up scales and just about everything else. Once you know the notes you can practically build the triads, scales, etc, that go along with them on the fly. It doesn't come overnight.
Title: Re: IM-151 • Triad Chord Grips
Post by: sairfingers on June 30, 2020, 10:45:23 am
Thanks for all your input on this subject guys, much appreciated.

I’ve just stumbled on another way of learning fretboard notes (this may be obvious to everyone else but I hadn’t thought of it). If I leave my clip on tuner on the guitar while playing, I can play an individual note and a glance at the tuner tells me if I’m correct. Also picking out the individual notes in chords the tuner identifies the notes within that chord.