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JustinGuitar Courses and Support => Beginners Course (BC) Lesson Specific Questions => Topic started by: justinguitar on October 07, 2009, 12:18:26 pm

Title: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: justinguitar on October 07, 2009, 12:18:26 pm
Lesson Link: http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BC-175-RhythmBasics5.php

Questions...
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: z0s0 on July 24, 2010, 01:20:21 pm
I was wondering when would be a proper time to put our rhythm patterns in actual play ? And when learning a song for the particular stage should we learn it with downstrums only or.. ? I mean, Justin recommends that we should be practicing the patterns without putting them in songs. Im asking this because i have some little issues with the shuffle rhythm - when i was at stage 5 i have practiced the pattern for some days, i got comfortable with playing the pattern itself but when im playing Blues in G or Blues in E i make mistakes in the changes between G7 - C7 and E7 - B7 and that's for some reason because im playing them with the shuffle, but when im strumming it with 4 downstrums everything is just fine, i have the same problem with this one - pattern #16 - it's so weird..  ???
Any ideas why is that? Or i just have to practice the patterns a little more ?

Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: Phalanx on July 24, 2010, 04:52:43 pm
I was wondering when would be a proper time to put our rhythm patterns in actual play ? And when learning a song for the particular stage should we learn it with downstrums only or.. ? I mean, Justin recommends that we should be practicing the patterns without putting them in songs. Im asking this because i have some little issues with the shuffle rhythm - when i was at stage 5 i have practiced the pattern for some days, i got comfortable with playing the pattern itself but when im playing Blues in G or Blues in E i make mistakes in the changes between G7 - C7 and E7 - B7 and that's for some reason because im playing them with the shuffle, but when im strumming it with 4 downstrums everything is just fine, i have the same problem with this one - pattern #16 - it's so weird..  ???
Any ideas why is that? Or i just have to practice the patterns a little more ?
I don't think there is a specific rule about when you should start learning songs with that strumming patterns, you just have to look what works best for you. For me personally, I'd like to practise the pattern very slowly, say at 60 BMP, till I get it perfect and them move it up. And when I can play perfectly at say 80/100 BMP including changing chords perfectly (because that is hard if your focusing on your strumming hand) I just start to use it in some cool patterns or songs. A good for this stage is 'Pink bullets' by The Shins, great song!

But really, what works for me might not work for you. Just figure out what works best for you. I like to learn songs right the first time, so I always use the correct pattern. But I start it very slowly, again at say 60 BPM, and when you can play it perfectly at that rate move it up. Hope that helps!
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: z0s0 on July 24, 2010, 11:12:34 pm
Thanks for the advice, Phalanx i will try to work it out somehow  :)
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: PattheBunny on September 07, 2010, 06:42:29 am


I am doing something wrong (catching the pick on the up strum all over the place) and watching Justin do it right is not helping me enough.  I can't identify the moment that I went off track or how to bring myself back if I keep moving, but it's stunningly blingly blangy with stings vibrating like they're chanting "om."   The down strum is pleasant enough.  But the up strum is all wrong.  I don't know if it's a pick problem or a movement problem or the way I'm holding my arm or wrist.   How do I identify the problem? 

I am using a very soft 48 mm Dunlop pick and also another pick that is probably only marginally thicker.  In many things that I begin I tend to be bold and in a hurry and kind of what, loud?  Vigorous?  I really want to be soft and gentle with this strumming stuff before I go locomotive. 

I did get some nice sound when I used the flat side of the pick instead of the tip by accident.  But I fear doing this as a habit will not serve me in the long run.  It does seem reasonable tho that the tip of the pick is going to be more difficult to get a soft sound with than a larger area.  I used my fingers for the first couple of weeks that I was playing and that was almost preferable to the sound I am making at the moment on the up strum.

Can anyone advise?

Pat
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: Tourniquet on September 07, 2010, 08:58:45 am
(http://www.hodosy-music.com/s_p_angle.jpg)

Where the red line is the pick angle relative to the strings make sure you have an angle and are not flat as in the middle picture.
Should make upstrums a whole lot easier.
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: PattheBunny on October 30, 2010, 11:12:06 pm
I just had an aha moment, I think I am three plus months of playing now.  The pick was catching everywhere when I did an upstrum a month ago.   It sounded like bling blang plonk plink and not prettily.  It was actually hard to keep playing, it sounded like I was torturing the guitar.

Of course it would have been worse to not play at all, so I kept at it.  And I didn't notice when it got better a little at a time, but it did.  And I didn't notice but six weeks went by...

Then today,  all of a sudden I felt like the pick was moving through hot butter :o :) :) ;D ;D ;D 8).  The sound was clean, clear, lovely.  Not every strum, but enough of them that it was actually a little thrilling. 

Oh the little things, how they can shine. 

If anyone else is at the plink plonk phase, don't despair.  And remember there is something entirely charming about beginner's mind.  I really want to play well, but I will miss this state of being pleased with the little things.  Beginning is a great place to be on a journey. 

Pat
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: justinguitar on January 28, 2011, 07:19:05 pm
Nice pic that one Tourni :)

And that is great Pat - well done - those little triumphs can make all the difference!
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: freokid on April 26, 2011, 03:27:51 pm
So im noticing all the Base notes for the open chords are on the the top (thickest) string of the chord. Is this always the case with open chords?
If so it makes things nice and easy to figure out.
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: Bootstrap on April 26, 2011, 11:26:55 pm
Hi Freokid,

Good noticing. :) Generally, all chords have bass note on the thickest string that you play.

Having said that, as long as you play the right notes from the chords (in any order) it is still the chord and these are referred to as inversions.

A couple of specific types of inversions that will be useful for you to learn in time will be slash chords and triads - if you go to the justinguitar site and click on chords in the left hand side index all will be revealed :)

Edit: or to save time http://www.justinguitar.com/en/CH-000-Chords.php
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: freokid on May 03, 2011, 08:52:46 pm
Thanks  for the advice Bootstrap. Ill have a look at that.   :)
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: Reemz on June 15, 2011, 07:44:31 pm
Hello everyone , i`m new here on the forum.
I have a question about this rhythm lesson. You see i`m a fingerstyle player and i really dont like playing with a pick. But this rhythm just seems unnatural to play with my fingers. And i think it`s a lot easier to play with a pick.
So my question is: is it really weird to play this strumming pattern with your fingers? Or is my unnatural feeling just because i`m not used to play this pattern with my fingers?

I want to apoligize for my bad English, i`m a Dutch teenager ;D.
Cyaa
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: Diesel McGunner on June 19, 2011, 03:28:43 pm
Quick question, is it really important to play the bass note with a down pick? I find it much easer to keep time when I play the bass as an upstrke on my way up from the upstrum of the entire chord.  can play it as a down pick but I find it much more difficult and I make more mistakes. Is it ok to play it with an up stroke or is that a flaw in my technique?
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: misterg on June 19, 2011, 08:44:48 pm
Is it ok to play it with an up stroke or is that a flaw in my technique?

I wouldn't do that - the bass note (in these lessons) is supposed to fall on the 1st beat of the bar (the '1' in the 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + count). Playing it as as up-stroke will throw the rhythm out completely (you'll be playing it as the '+' after thr 4 beat, or trying to force your hand to play uneven rhythms).

So a "No" from me  ;)

Andy
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: misterg on June 19, 2011, 08:53:11 pm
Hello everyone , i`m new here on the forum.

Hi :)

Quote
I have a question about this rhythm lesson. You see i`m a fingerstyle player and i really dont like playing with a pick. But this rhythm just seems unnatural to play with my fingers. And i think it`s a lot easier to play with a pick.
So my question is: is it really weird to play this strumming pattern with your fingers? Or is my unnatural feeling just because i`m not used to play this pattern with my fingers?

I know that people can and do play this type of rhythm with their fingers (thumb for the bass then use the back of the nails of the first two fingers to strum the rest, for example).

I think that the majority of people learn with a pick  It is a preference - if it feels better, then use a pick - it does take time to get used to one, though.

Andy
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: dougster on March 28, 2012, 08:27:46 pm
Hello!
I love the sound of this pattern, and I hear a lot of variations of pick-strum in music. But I am having trouble getting my accuracy to improve with this when the chord root is on the 4th or 5th string. It seems like about 7 times out of 8 I'll hit the right root, but those misses are hard to stamp out. Is there any way to help "feel" where to pick? Or do I just need to slow waaay down below 60 bpm, like to 30 or so, until I've got perfect accuracy and then wind it back up? How've some of you overcome this challenge?

This is the one big thing that's keeping me from graduating the beginners course!
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: jacksroadhouse on March 29, 2012, 07:49:16 am
First off, occasional misses in alternate bass strumming are kind of normal, it happens to the best of them ;)

Slowing down is good, but only as far as makes sense. You should practice slightly below your limit to gradually extend your "comfort zone".

What helped me with this when I started out was doing picking excercises to learn to hit specific strings, e.g. (string numbers) 6 5 6 4 6 3 6 2 6 1 and back again, or 6 1 5 1 4 1 3 1 2 1 and back. You can make them up as you go along (variety is key, you're practicing accuracy, not learning a pattern).

The rest of it is really just practice. You need to get your picking hand to pick the correct root note without thinking much about it.

One useful trick: like in normal strumming, try muting the 6th string with your thumb when it's not wanted, esp. when it's a chord that doesn't contain the note E. That way, if e.g. you're playing a D chord an accidentally hitting the low E, you get a little "thud" at most, but you don't turn the chord into something different.
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: YuzukiXx on April 01, 2012, 01:14:26 pm
Hi Freokid,

Good noticing. :) Generally, all chords have bass note on the thickest string that you play.

Having said that, as long as you play the right notes from the chords (in any order) it is still the chord and these are referred to as inversions.

A couple of specific types of inversions that will be useful for you to learn in time will be slash chords and triads - if you go to the justinguitar site and click on chords in the left hand side index all will be revealed :)

Edit: or to save time http://www.justinguitar.com/en/CH-000-Chords.php

Hi, everyone =)

I got a bit confused after watching the video, why did Justin say the bass note of A minor is on the 5th string?
Link to the video: http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BC-175-RhythmBasics5.php (from 2:24)
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: misterg on April 01, 2012, 02:53:11 pm
Hi, everyone =)

I got a bit confused after watching the video, why did Justin say the bass note of A minor is on the 5th string?
Link to the video: http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BC-175-RhythmBasics5.php (from 2:24)

Hi, and welcome :)

Do you remember when you learnt the A, A7 and A minor chords that you had to avoid playing the thick E string (6th String)?

It's the same here - The lowest note in the normal A minor chord is the open A string, so that is the one that's used as the bass note.

Any clearer?

Andy
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: YuzukiXx on April 02, 2012, 01:42:04 am
Hi, everyone =)

I got a bit confused after watching the video, why did Justin say the bass note of A minor is on the 5th string?
Link to the video: http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BC-175-RhythmBasics5.php (from 2:24)

Hi, and welcome :)

Do you remember when you learnt the A, A7 and A minor chords that you had to avoid playing the thick E string (6th String)?

It's the same here - The lowest note in the normal A minor chord is the open A string, so that is the one that's used as the bass note.

Any clearer?

Andy

Hi Andy, thanks for your prompt reply  :D

Just to make sure I can understand, is the bass note for D major chord the open D string? But then this is not the case for G major chord. (we have to play the open E string instead) ?
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: misterg on April 02, 2012, 08:57:23 am
Just to make sure I can understand, is the bass note for D major chord the open D string? But then this is not the case for G major chord. (we have to play the open E string instead) ?

Yes, the bass note for the D chord is the D string.

For the G chord, it isn't the open E sting - When you're playing a G chord, the thick E string is fretted at the 3rd fret, so when you pluck the E string you get a G note - the correct bass note for the G chord (rather than the E note that the open string would give).

Andy

Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: Porpoise on July 24, 2012, 04:35:59 pm
Just wondering: on the end of that lesson, a more fancy strumming patern is shown. Is there any video that talks about these more advanced strum/picking paterns? I  bought the Really Usefull strumming 1 dvd, which gives some more details on how to alternate the base, which is also nice to do. Maybe there are some extra's on this in the second strumming dvd?
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: jacksroadhouse on July 24, 2012, 05:02:04 pm
What he does towards the end is (partially) 16th note picking/strumming. The 16th note strumming as such is covered in the intermediate foundation course and on RUST II, but I'm not sure if these little tricks are on the DVD.

It's a walk-up / walk-down, where he picks an ascending or descending bass line and strums in between. It's pretty neat, but your fretting hand needs to be pretty fast as well, so more of an intermediate thing.

Did you arrive at 16th note strumming yet?

Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: Porpoise on July 26, 2012, 01:45:51 pm
I did not arrive at 16th note strumming officialy...i did experiment with it when playing some songs. I'll just buy the second strumming MP4 and see what it has in store.
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: Gavriel on May 01, 2013, 03:19:52 am
Hey guys, this is my first post   ;D

  I'm having trouble with chord changes while playing this pattern.  For example, when playing DM to GM, I can only get a good sound when leaving my fingers down until the last possible moment. I've actually never gotten  a perfect, sustaining change with this pattern.  Does this make sense?
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: jacksroadhouse on May 01, 2013, 07:11:26 am
With alternate bass struming in it's typical form, you really need to be pretty fast with the chord changes. There are two little cheats (not sure Justin mentioned them):

1) You can do the up-strum on open strings while the rest of your fingers are changing chords. Don't go for all the strings on the up-stroke (sounds horrible), just the higher (sounding) strings.

2) You don't always have to play the up-stroke as well. I started to learn this kind of strumming very early on, but with just the pick on the bass note and the down strum, and added the up-strum later when my chord chamges had become faster.

That said, of course it's a good idea to practice this strumming properly and to try and become fast enough for it. But when it comes to making a song sound good with it, a little cheating might still be okay ;)
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: tckwilson on April 17, 2018, 02:59:21 am
Do you guys just practice this strumming pattern with the strings muted like the other patterns or do you try to do it with.the chord changes right from.the start?

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Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: JerryBels on September 11, 2019, 11:23:48 am
Hello people,

So I got there, and while previous rythm guitar lessons went very flawlessly, this one is hard for me. I continued on my journey and have the same kind of problems with https://www.justinguitar.com/guitar-lessons/12-bar-blues-style-bc-183 as well.

So simply put, I'm doing it pretty well when hitting the bass note on the 6th string. That's fine, I got the rythm part right. Ths issue appears when I'm starting to want and hit another string as the bass note, say 5th string for an Am or 4th for a D.

Then my pick is all over the place. I sometimes pick the wrong one - often the string below the one I wanted. Sometimes I will pick it but with one more string - below or above it. And when trying to hit the other strings, it happens quite often I do hit the bass string again as well.

So trying to continue on my journey since it's the only point keeping me from getting to stage 8, I started to train the lessons from there as well. And then the 12 bar blues style gave me the same problem - I'm either hitting the two wanted strings so slowly they sound separately, almost arpeggiated... And if I'm doing it stronger I lose the nice touch but also hit strings below. Which are muted, so it sounds ok I guess, but it's not the goal of the lesson.

So, how can I get to improve my one string picking when it's not the 6th string? Has Justin made a video specifically to give advices on this topic? Should I simply practice at a VERY slow pace and see if it improves over the time?
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: stitch101 on September 11, 2019, 06:44:41 pm
Jerry did you miss the very first lesson on the D chord where Justin explains
the stum/pick/stum exercise?
The only way to get more accuracy with your stumming hand is to practice
accuracy slowly without mistakes.
Practice picking the bass note then stum the chord then pick the next bass note
stum the chord. Only picking and strumming the string you want.
Every day for 5 minutes for a week and it will become second nature.
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: JerryBels on September 12, 2019, 07:45:21 am
Jerry did you miss the very first lesson on the D chord where Justin explains
the stum/pick/stum exercise?
The only way to get more accuracy with your stumming hand is to practice
accuracy slowly without mistakes.
Practice picking the bass note then stum the chord then pick the next bass note
stum the chord. Only picking and strumming the string you want.
Every day for 5 minutes for a week and it will become second nature.

Hi and thanks :)

Yes I saw that course, and if practicing at 60 bpm I usually hit 3/4 well, but it's because it's very slow - when inserting even a little bit of energy in my movement, I immediately hit more strings than the one I was going for.

It's now something like two weeks that I'm doing this training 5 minutes at least every day, going for a chord progression like G - D - Am - C and back to G. I don't really see any noticeable improvements, that's why I was wondering if I was doing something wrong. But I guess I just have to stick to practicing it at 60 bpm and I will eventually get it right, hopefully.
Title: Re: BC-175 • Rhythm Guitar Basics 5
Post by: Airmiles on November 05, 2019, 11:54:30 am
Hi There

I struggled like anything with this one - even more than ties. The "B DU" was coming out more as B.  D.   U or BDU...

Eventually I realised that it's not only about slowing things down but also about breaking them down into their component parts.

So I split my practice into
D DU D DU
and
B D B D

until I had both nailed including chord changes and correct root string for the B, at which point combining them to B DU B DU felt natural.

YMMV etc. But I hope it helps some!

Cheers
Miles


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