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Tools of the Trade => Amplification, Effects, Pickups etc. => Pickups => Topic started by: julienarrijs on September 24, 2009, 09:27:05 pm

Title: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on September 24, 2009, 09:27:05 pm
hey guys

well i've posted something about this a few weeks back, saying i was wanting to swap the pup in my prs se singlecut...and well i've done a lot of reaserch since and let me tell you this....it is a pain in the ass , there's way too many pups to choose from, i wish it would be much simple:) i've listened to million of sound clips and stuff ...and it's kinda hard to get an accurate idea on how it would sound on my guitar (my prs is a mahogany body and neck with a rosewood fretboard...it's a solid body guitar, lp looking like but that has the thickness of a gibson sg)

so far i've narowed it to 2 configurations from dimarzio

a) Mo'joe bridge. Paf Joe Neck
b) D sonic bridge. Liquifire Neck

i considered a seymoure duncan configurtion sh6 distortion bridge - SH1 neck but i find it a tad too agressive for my taste

what i'm looking for tonewise is versatility, i'm playing stuff like neoclassical, early metallica stuff, ratm, joe satriani, jason becker, some john mayer kind of blues, i'm not trying to emulate the tone of these bands and styles though, i'm looking for an articulate tone, somehow not too specific but the pickups would have to handle goin from clean to crunch to high gain while still being articulate and defined...since my stock pups are getting quiet muddy on high gain settings.

what do you think of that ? any other suggestions ?
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: Dan Graves on September 24, 2009, 10:16:01 pm
Articulate tone = Bareknuckle pickups, a set of Mules to be exact.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on September 25, 2009, 09:45:52 am
i must say that i knew by name the "bare knuckles "pups, but everytime i browsed their website i didn't really feel like it was the real deal...until i listened to sound clips yesterday...and this sounds really good

i like both (from what i heard on recordings) the mule and ss rebel yell. do you have any experience with those ?
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: LievenDV on September 25, 2009, 10:57:17 am
the website itself does not represent the quality; it are indeed all the sound samples by the devoted users you need to check
(in the end, that's what matters most)
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: agordon on September 25, 2009, 01:11:04 pm
julienarrijs: I feel your pain with the pu selections.  Too many out there.  I went crazy trying to figure out what to put in my warmoth strat when I built it.  I wound up having to install 2 different pu's in both the neck and middle position before getting it right.  I think your just going to have to take your best guess knowing that you may have to change them out.  Just dont cut the leads too short when you install them so you can have the option to resale the pu's if you need too.

So you think the stock SE pu's are too muddy?  I really like how they sound personally.  Im very interested in your findings though because it may influence me to swap mine out too.  I wonder how a SD pearly gates or Gibson classic '57 would sound in it?
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on September 25, 2009, 03:02:02 pm
to lieven : well you're totally right about that, plus it kinda feels nice to buy something that has been hand made and that is not some generic junk you bought falling for the marketing speach that came along it.

to anthony : well you're right about the fact that they're good pups, i actually like em for stuff like heavy blues, and even the clean are intersting when you back down the volume nob, though i'd like something a bit more articulate and that handles better real high gain setting, i think when playing stuff like early metallica (orion main riffs for example) or some machine head riffs (slanderous, ...) the stock pups are loosing a lot of articulation and definition.. but i will still store them somewhere

I think i have a winner, i fell for the Steve Stevens 'REBEL YELL' humbucker , i might place on order on them sometimes soon.

this might interest  you , it's a sound clip made with the very same guitar we both own, the PRS SE SINGLECUT loaded with rebel yell pups

http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=17047.0, it makes me think of zack wylde tone when he played on a gibson SG

there are options on the pup i don't really get : what should i order for my prs

Spacing : 50 or 53mm ?
conductor : 4 or braided 2 ?
Leg : long 1/2" or short 1/4"

and what those things refer to ?

and about the installation itself, do you think i should get them installed for me or should i give it a try by myself...since it shouldn't be rocket science...but i still don't know a thing about it.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: Dan Graves on September 25, 2009, 03:41:56 pm
In reverse :

Spacing is the width of your bridge pickup, either 50 or 53mm, so measure it from left to right and see what it says.

Conductor for is the wiring, 4 means you have all the wires to do a coilsplit or out of phase setup *needs either extra switches or push/pull or push/push pots*, 2 conductor is straight up humbucker wiring with no options for the above.
I got the 4 conductor, in case i ever wanted a coilsplit or coiltap on my Rebel Yells.

Legs depends on how fat your guitar body is.
Long is for Les Pauls and similar, short is for Fender.
Easiest way to determine that is to compare to a Les Paul and a Strat.
Whichever is the closest match wins, so to speak.

As for the Rebel Yells, i love mine, but John Mayer style blues...
I dunno man, i never got them sounding quite that good doing blues, which is why i suggested the Mules.
If you are in doubt, email or PM Tim (Mills) from the BKP forum, he's the owner and builder of these pickups, he will have a good idea of what would suit your needs best.
He answers all emails and PM's, and his advice always worked perfect for me.

Here's what Rebel Yells do best, IMHO :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIJYa6nnIYk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v90A9P8D_a0
Yes, that's me  ;D
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: agordon on September 25, 2009, 05:43:49 pm
Those pickups do sound good, but how do they sound on a clean or low gain setting?  Like Dan said, not sure you will get that Mayer tone with these.

Id get the 4 conductor so you can have the option to split them later down the road if you want.  And you will need the short leg mounting.  Im not sure about the pickup width.

If your somewhat handy you should be able to install the pickups yourself.  I installed some for the very first time with very little (as in 2 or 3 times) previous soldering experience.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on September 25, 2009, 09:27:25 pm
you guys are right about the mayer blues thing.
when i bought the prs i wanted a mean axe, since i had a strat and didn't feel very inspired to play stuff like RATM, Machinhead, ... on it...so i told myself that i would stick to the strat for cleans and get an other axe for heavier stuff...hence my attraction to the rebel yells....but meanwhile i came across demo of dimarzio pups http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoXRJ1QwNTs (the mo joe/paf joe config) that seemed to offer the best of both world..and since i'm spending most of time on the prs i thought it'b quiet cool .... but the thing i'm affraid of would be to get pups like the mule and thinking afterwards that it's not mean enough for my taste.

to dan : thanks for all the info, i've mailed the guy from bareknuckles explaining him what i was after...what's the guitar you're playing on the vids ? a gibby ?

to anthony: well soldering doesn't scare me...it's more the question of where to weld wires on and stuff ...i looked at the schematics on the bareknuckles website and it seemed quiet vague to me
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: Dan Graves on September 25, 2009, 09:37:42 pm
Epiphone, Custom shop.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: agordon on September 25, 2009, 10:30:05 pm
You dont need to completely wire everything, your just adding the pu's.  There are two main wires (each a twisted pair) that come off the selector switch.  On mine 1 is white and the other is yellow.  Each twisted pair main wire has 2 internal wires - 1 black and 1 white.  Just cut these a few inches from where they terminate on the switch and solder the new pu wires on to these.  Looks like PRS uses black as ground and white as hot.  Just match hot and ground to the new pu's.

If your unsure you can wire them with wire nuts just to test it and then solder them when you know its right.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: Dan Graves on September 25, 2009, 11:21:24 pm
julien, that vid is useless for anything other than getting an idea of the sort of tone, as i don't speak any french.
But the tone that guy is getting can be had with a set of Mules.
And harder stuff too.

Several different examples of what the mules can do :

Clip by Tim and HJM : http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=143.0

? : http://gsqd.com/mp3s/MuleTT.mp3

Heavier_Then_Hell's Ozzy clip : http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8638.0

? : http://soundcloud.com/indysmith/test-recording-les-paul-blackstar-ht5c-sm57 (Blackstar HT-5 combo ? Interesting)

Clips by _tom_ , almost all Mule clips : http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=870027
And more by _tom_ : http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=493678&songID=7291917
Tom does a lot of metal/stoner metal with his mules, but also a lot of bluesy stuff.
And the list goes on.

Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on September 26, 2009, 09:17:51 am
thanks dan , that was VERY useful,i spent some time listening to all those clips.. and man tom's quiet of a player huh. Sick tone....and i see your point...the mules get the job done..and i must say they seem to deliver a much warmer and vintage tone than the dimarzio mo and paf joe.
 
nevertheless...based on what i've heard i still find the rebel yell more appealing

did you hear those clips ? http://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3433.0....i kinda like it on clean settings !

i think i'll need to process the info for a couple of days before i make up my mind for good and make the order ...in a perfect world, i'd load my prs with RY and i'd get an agile that i'd load with mules..but maybe i'll do that later too .

to anthony : well it sounds much easier that way...that i think i can do. i'll give it a shot....and save 50 euros in the process :)
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on September 26, 2009, 10:39:27 am
that steve stevens video is quiet sick too...i'm assuming he uses the rebel yell : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFdPGD-enZo&feature=PlayList&p=5743AE1F07D9EC83&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=26
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: Dan Graves on September 26, 2009, 03:37:10 pm
That last video, those are not Rebel Yells.
And yes, i know all the RY clips, i also (obviously) know what these are capable of, and again, they have a sick tone, but you will not get a John Mayer type of sound from them.
Best you can do is a very gritty, sharp blues.
One way you MIGHT coax that kind of tone from a Rebel Yell is to get the 4 conductor wiring and then coilsplit both humbuckers.
You'd lose the hum cancelling in split modes, but it could make a lot of difference.
You could ask around the BKP forum and see if anyone has any good experiences to share when it comes to coilsplitting a set of Rebel Yells.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on September 26, 2009, 08:19:32 pm
well yeah i understand i won't get even close to a mayer tone with the RY.
I played on my strat today, worked on some john mayer blues solo (everyday i got the blues...great solo) and well it felt great....so i don't think i would need to split coil the RY, i think i might just load the PRS with RY and play the mayer stuff on my strat. i'll sleep on that but i think it might be where i'll head.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: agordon on September 26, 2009, 11:34:48 pm
Hey, Id be interested in your take on that Mayer song.  I really like his blues style.

I too like Dan's idea of splitting the coils.  That would require changing out the pots and much more soldering though.  Definitely worth considering.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: Dan Graves on September 27, 2009, 12:31:27 am
Depends on how he wants to do it, Anthony.
In any case, we're looking at 2-4 extra solder points, 6 at most, depending on the how and what.
It's not that much more complicated, you just need to put the right wire on the right tab on the push/pull or push/push pot... or (mini) toggle switch, if he would go that route, but that would mean extra drilling.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: TB-AV on September 27, 2009, 01:50:45 am
It's quite possible you already have in your guitar what you want.

If it's muddy try wiring them in parallel. See if don't like that.

Can be done with a switch as well.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: agordon on September 27, 2009, 04:15:37 am
Very true Dan, but soldering on those push/pull pots is not an easy task.  I was able to solder the standard pots fairly easily, but the terminals on those push/pull pots are so dang small and the control cavity always seems just small enough to give you problems.

How do those pu's sound when they are split?
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: Dan Graves on September 27, 2009, 05:05:48 am
Almost like single coils ?
Dunno, i can't really define the difference too well, it's something that needs to be heard IMHO.
I'll see if i can dig up some soundclips.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on September 27, 2009, 07:50:34 pm
well i have a super distortion ( single coil sized) in my strat bridge position that i connected to a pull/push tone control ( i didn't do it myself, i paid 50 euros to have it done) and i does sound like a single coil, it sounds just as good , if not better than the original pup when i tap it...

but i'm not sure i want to go down that road on the prs..it would mean changing the tone and vol control...trying to do it myself or having to pay between 50 to 70 bucks to get it done, plus the cost of the pots (i assume it would be around 20 bucks each)

I'd be looking at 40 to a 100 bucks on top of 200 for the pup....i might probably get the mule and a boss sd1 for the same price, if not less, without all the trouble....but most of all i'm not sure i'm looking for the single coil tone on my PRS, since i already have a strat. But anyways i'll still get the 4 wires option so i can eventually do it if i feel like it

what is parallel wiring ? and what are the pro's and con's of it ? and what does it involve on the technical (soldering) side ? ..and it not so much that they get muddy but they loose a lot of articulation and definition on very high gain settings and drop tunings.i'm not sure it would do something about it, would it ? 

i still don't know which pup to get still (if i'm going down that road) i've listened to all the clips from tom Dan mentionned, and the guy can get quiet a tone, i'm assuming he uses an OD pedal, but still , and the tone is somehow fatter then with the rebel yells

and to anthony ; i'll record the solo when i'll have worked it throuh, i've completed like 3/4 of it so far and i'll send the link to you. how's you version of slow dancing in a burning room goin ?

Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on September 27, 2009, 08:59:51 pm
to dan : i just got an answer from Tim, he suggested to get a RY in the bridge and a Mule in the neck.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: Dan Graves on September 27, 2009, 09:24:28 pm
If that's what Tim says, i'd follow the advice.
He's advised me well with both the Rebel Yells and Miracle Man set i use, both where perfect for my needs.
Maybe you could ask him to try and match the Rebel Yell with the Mule when ordering, but i'm assuming that if he says it's ok, it'd work fine.
Have you decided on what kind of custom covers (if any) you would get ?
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on September 27, 2009, 11:00:13 pm
well.... i like the aged nickel and the black satin :)
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: Dan Graves on September 27, 2009, 11:02:50 pm
Don't get both, that'd look silly  :D ;)
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on September 27, 2009, 11:05:53 pm
that would not be far away from the tremonti style...you get an open pole on the bridge and a chrome one on the neck..can get sillier than that :)
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: agordon on September 28, 2009, 03:18:48 am
and to anthony ; i'll record the solo when i'll have worked it throuh, i've completed like 3/4 of it so far and i'll send the link to you. how's you version of slow dancing in a burning room goin ?
Havent worked on slow dancing in a burning room much at all lately.  Ive always wanted to learn everyday I have the blues song, but never taken the time.  Now you will save me lots of time.   ;D ;D  Let me know when you get it ready.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on September 28, 2009, 08:41:02 am
well i'm just working on the solo, u'll be on your own for the rythm part :)
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: TB-AV on September 28, 2009, 03:08:07 pm
"what is parallel wiring ? and what are the pro's and con's of it ?"

In a humbucker you have two coils. they can be connected in series ( typical ) or parallel ( not so typical ).

Both circuits are humbucking as opposed to simply dropping a coil to get single coil.

Pickups are inductors electrically speaking. That is what makes them different from each other. They of course also have capacitance and resistance and magnets differences, but at the end of the day you are hearing an electrical circuit.

This circuit can be formed in many ways. Rewinding a new pickup. Going with some sort of active circuit. Even changing a cable. Cables have no magic in them, it's simply the capacitance change people hear provided the cable is well made.

All pickups have a frequency response and towards the end of that ( the higher frequencies ) there is a bump. A small area where frequencies are enhanced. This bump can vary in intensity. Same as boosting a band on an EQ. Often times just before this bump is a slight dip. After the bump which is known as the resonant frequency then the signal rolls off very fast. This area of the frequency spectrum encompasses several musical notes. Changing capacitance moves this entire area of dip-bump-rolloff either higher of lower in the entire spectrum.

So for instance let's say setup A covered the area 3K to 4K. Setup B might cover 3.5K to 4.5K. So the dip/bump/rolloff effects different frequencies just like an EQ.

Going to parallel reduces the inductance but increases the resonant peak by 2 and remains humbucking. Single coil increases them by almost 1.5 but is not humbucking.

I have read reports of a guitarist/enginner that did quite a bit of experimenting in changing pickups and eventually found that parallel cut the mud out and I believe he said approached the tone of much older pickups as opposed to newer ones.

It's a simple thing to do if you have 4 wires. Normally the two coils are connected as follows. (minus)coil1(Plus)---(minus)coil2(plus). That leaves you with one (minus) and one (plus) to connect to output.

That might involve 4 wires Red(minus) Black(plus) White(minus) Green(plus). So black and white hook together and read and green go to output.

To change you disconnect all 4 wires. Then connect red/white and black/green. Those two sets of wires go to output. Red/white to ground and Black/green to Hot.

It's pretty much the cheapest and easiest thing you can do.

Terms I've heard associated with it. Clear, open, expansive, etc.

HTH, but by all means if you are going to all the trouble and expense to add new picks, at least add those options in with switches.

Here are some diagrams.

http://www.1728.com/guitar.htm


I think your pickups ( in an effort to play hard driving music ) are simply too hot. The best Bar-B-Q is not made with the biggest match to light the fire so to speak.


Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on September 28, 2009, 03:22:43 pm
well thanks for the information, i'll definitely spend some time reading the link you provided and i will eventually probably have some new questions for you !

but this sounds tempting since i'm in no rush to get new pups...i'll probably give it a trial shot at a piece of junk i own ( that i cannot call a guitar) that i use for decoration...a 50 bucks china made strat looking guitar...i'll probably mess with it a little to get some soldering and wiring experience before i give it a shot on my prs.

well i'll read all that stuff for now and i'll make up my mind

thanks
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on September 29, 2009, 11:12:39 am
ok i've went through the info you gave me and it sounds interesting

nevertheless, my axe is fitted with stock pups that are not likely to have a 4wire setting ( since it's an import PRS not an american)

i don't really feel confident about drilling a hole on my guitar to install the dpdt switch to go from series to parallel wiring.

if i get it right parallel wiring would get me a brighter tone with the cons of less output volume...wich is not exactly what i'm looking for since i want the same amout of output volume and overdrive with more articulation in the tone

so i think i'll get the bareknuckles pups  for that purpose (the high output volume with the articulation) but they'll come with 4 wires wich leaves the option open for parallel wiring....that i find interesting tonewise...so are there any other solutions for the switch, like would it be possible not to drill a hole in my guitar and to connect to a push/pull pot or something similar ?

Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: LievenDV on September 29, 2009, 11:46:14 am


i don't really feel confident about drilling a hole on my guitar to install the dpdt switch to go from series to parallel wiring.
-->like would it be possible not to drill a hole in my guitar and to connect to a push/pull pot or something similar ?

jup; seen guitars with 2 buckers, both with a tone control pot that could be pushed an pulled for coil tap for example
invisible to the eye, no extra drilling but bit more complicated wiring.. (just an example, not exactly what you asked for)

anything is possible; bu some parts/brands are more suitable for some scenario's.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: TB-AV on September 29, 2009, 01:34:45 pm
"if i get it right parallel wiring would get me a brighter tone with the cons of less output volume...wich is not exactly what i'm looking for since i want the same amout of output volume and overdrive with more articulation in the tone"

Not exactly. The volume decrease will be less of an issue. The tone response will contain less bass information. Bass is where the mud is.

Thus you may well achieve the articulation you seek with similar output.

Taking the cavity cover off your guitar will reveal how many wires rather quickly.



Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on September 30, 2009, 11:22:15 am
well as suspected, i have a 2 wires configuration.

i think i'm going to place an order on the bareknuckles..since i'm  convinced that they are great pickups...but i'll make sure to get the 4wires setting to be able to go parallel wiring if i feel like it
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: TB-AV on September 30, 2009, 01:36:42 pm
Good idea.

If you do like it and ever want to use those old ones in parallel. You can still do it but you have to unsolder and resolder the actual coil wires where they connect on the pickup.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on October 12, 2009, 09:10:51 am
allright, order placed on bknuckles pups, a rebel yell (bridge) and a mule (neck) combo !
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: Dan Graves on October 12, 2009, 09:25:42 am
Welcome to the BKP club then  ;D
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on October 12, 2009, 12:21:22 pm
well ty,

i'm just afraid it'll turn to a major GAS and that i'll soon decide to change the pups on my strat too :)
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: LievenDV on October 12, 2009, 05:57:16 pm
the moment you discover that your tone control and especially your volume knob have a use now, yes, GAS will be ignited
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on October 12, 2009, 08:25:47 pm
i kinda was affraid of that :)
i can't be a hundred percent sure since i haven't installed the BKP yet so there's still a chance ( a small one i reckon) that i might not spend most my cash on guitar gear.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on October 16, 2009, 09:36:28 pm
allright so i've got my BKP this morning.

the packaging is just really cool. especially the rebell yell box !
the goodies are just too good to be true...one set of string wich each pup..that's quiet nice !

the thing is that i ordered wide spacing pups (according to my measures the actual spacing on my prs is 52mm, agordon confirmed that) while specifying the model and brand of my guitar with my order, and i got delivered std spacing pups, both of them...wich is quiet odd....but i'm guessing that those guys know what they doing. Nevertheless i mailed Tim from BKP's to ask him if i need to worry about it or not. What do you guys think about that..i've read that even though the string spacing is wider on PRS, american PRS do come with std spacing pups as stock ??
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: Dan Graves on October 16, 2009, 09:44:03 pm
Hmmm, not quite sure on that one, i'd wait and see what Tim says.
Or just take out the bridge pickup (don't desolder, just take it out) and put in the RY to see if it fits.
Cause there's no arguing with a fitting pickup  ;D
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: agordon on October 17, 2009, 05:36:15 am
Yeah, if it physically fits, then its probably ok.  another thing is hold the BKP pickup above the strings (strings installed on guitar).  Line one side of the poles up on the low E and see if the pole pieces sit about in the middle of each string.

Dont forget to do a before and after recording of that guitar.  I really want to hear the difference to see if I do the same.   ;) ;)  Thanks bunches.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on October 17, 2009, 05:08:41 pm
well tim (the boss from BKP) said he did it on purpose, since i do have a stoptail and that the poles would sit outside the string spacing with wide spacing pups...and i guess he knows what he's talking about...but i'll still check if the poles are in the middle of the string.
 
now that i have the pups...comes the task of installing them. Wich i decided to do myself :)

but i don't really know how to do that...i'm assuming that i would have to remove the strings from the guitar...remove the pups...solder them. replace them.set the pups height , restring the guitar and that would be it

the things that i do not really know about is how io install the springs around the screws...i guess there are things to do to prevent the spring to jump in my eyes. Will i need to solder the wires on the volume pot or to the wires in my prs ?

if you guys could think of steps that i should follow to ensure that the pups will be installed properly i'd really appreciate.

to agordon...i recorded the john mayer thing this morning...and i also tried to record my PRS with stock pups to compare before and after to pups upgrade...but since i'm recording using my camera phone, i can't seem to record with high distortion settings..it gets inaudible...i'll try to get some other recording device and see how it goes.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: Dan Graves on October 17, 2009, 06:46:09 pm
Take the pickup ring off of the body (don't unscrew the pickups, ONLY the ring !), then unscrew the old pickups and take out the pickup screws and springs, take the BKP's, put the new screws that came with them through the ring, put the springs over the screws, and then screw the whole thing into the BKP's.
That's all there is to doing that.
Then put the braided wires into the cavities and thread them to the electroics chamber, and put the rings with pickups back onto the body.

Soldering wise : use desoldering braid to take off the old pickups (don't just cut their wires to save time!!), and use good quality solder to solder in the new BKP's.
There should be a soldering schematic with the BKP's, if not, check their website, or the PRS website if need be.

This video could possibly be useful, start viewing after 6:30  : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB9la3yeUqw
Or check some of the other videos on replacing pickups on youtube, like this one by Seymour Duncan : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEbAOxc5UTk
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: agordon on October 17, 2009, 08:34:36 pm
Dan, do you think it makes a noticeable difference by soldering directly to the switch rather than cutting the existing pu wires and soldering to them?  The reason I ask is because I did this when I built my warmoth strat.  First I had the wires directly to the switch and then cut the pu wires to save time when I replaced the pu.  Honestly I did not notice a difference at all.  I understand the extra solder joint adds resistance and hence voltage drop and all that, but I really wonder if it makes a noticeable difference.  Im not asking because I disagree with you, Im asking because I honestly dont know.  Ive only dealt with the situation one time.

Also, Im not sure if you have seen inside the cavity of this guitar, but all the negative/ground connections go to 1 point on the selector switch.  There are like 4-5 wires connected to 1 small point in the bottom corner of the cavity.  It wont be easy at all to get all those wires back correctly in that small area plus there is lots of existing solder at the junction (at least on mine there is) so you would need one of those solder "suckers" (for lack of better words) to remove all the solder.  I would be torn.  The correct way is to solder directly to the switch, but being an amateur I would think hard about tapping into the existing pu wires.  Any thoughts about this?

julienarrijs: Ill give you a little hint that I learned when building my guitar.  Use some electrical tape to tape the end of the existing pu wires to a long piece of temporary wire.  Pull the temporary wire through the wire way when you pull out the old pu's and leave the temporary wire in there with wire hanging out on both sides of the wire way.  Then tape the open end of the bkp wire to the temporary wire (from top of the guitar) and use the temporary wire to pull the bkp wire through the wire way into the cavity.  I found it very difficult to get the 4-conductor humbucker wire through the wire way without doing this.  I use this method every time now and it saves me headaches.  This is probably not necessary with 2-conductor pu wire.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: Dan Graves on October 17, 2009, 09:24:49 pm
It's mainly just good practice anthony, and it prevents problems with the old wiring.
I've never soldered into old wires, so i have no diea if it would cause issues, but i can see why it could be bad, with multiple solder joints that can go bad, wire that could be burned by resoldering, etc.
And like i said, if you're removing the old pickups, use desoldering braid, it should pick up all the old solder, if you use it the way it's supposed to be used.
Or you could use one of those fancy vacuum desoldering pens like the one i have in the workshop, but it really shouldn't be necessary.

As for hard to reach places in the cavities, you can always unscrew the pots and such and lift them out of the body for soldering.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: julienarrijs on October 19, 2009, 02:27:54 pm

Also, Im not sure if you have seen inside the cavity of this guitar, but all the negative/ground connections go to 1 point on the selector switch.  There are like 4-5 wires connected to 1 small point in the bottom corner of the cavity.  It wont be easy at all to get all those wires back correctly in that small area

as you said the wiring schematics in the PRS are quiet a nightmare, especially for people with very little soldering experience. I felt up to the task when I thought it would mean soldering two wires together, but i'm not really sure i want to do this bymyself anymore. I think i'm gonna get it done by someone else with a lil more soldering experience

and thanks dan for the video link, it made everything seems much simpler,from the video i got an accurate idea of what it involves and everything seems quiet easy..but still i don't feel up to the ask when it comes to my guitar soldering schematics.
Title: Re: PUPs upgrade on a PRS SE SINGLECUT
Post by: Dan Graves on October 19, 2009, 02:37:40 pm
Then don't do it yourself, let a guitar tech/luthier do it instead.
Worst thing you can do is work on something when you're not confident you can make it work.