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Site Lesson Specific Questions => Scale Lessons (SC) => Topic started by: justinguitar on July 14, 2008, 04:34:02 pm

Title: SC-301 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale: Essential Information
Post by: justinguitar on July 14, 2008, 04:34:02 pm
Questions...

Lesson Link: http://justinguitar.com/en/SC-301-MinorPentatonicScale.php
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: j10jep2 on August 01, 2008, 06:05:02 pm
i know the first one is in A minor but what are the others? or does it depend on where on the neck you play these scales?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: knighty 1 on October 01, 2008, 12:21:48 am
Questions...
            hi justin, do i need to know all 5 pentatonic exersices by heart as you said for the major scale
                                       thanks 4 making things clear
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Inspired Insanity on October 23, 2008, 07:49:13 am
i know the first one is in A minor but what are the others? or does it depend on where on the neck you play these scales?

hi j10jep2...
The potition in the chord boxes are all the Aminor pentationic scale. This is because the ROOT notes are 'A' therefor the scale is Am pentatonic. Im still a beginer to all the scale stuff but ive picked that up so far. I dont know what the positions for the other scales such as Cm pentatonic are but im prettu sure all those poitions hes shown are Am. I hope this was help enough. :)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Inspired Insanity on October 23, 2008, 07:53:40 am
Questions...

With the scale postions shown in sc 002...are they all Am pentatonic? If so where can i find the rest of the minor pentatonic scale postions. any help is much appreciated.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: JoshLovesMusic on October 23, 2008, 09:44:34 pm
I'm sure I could help you with that but do not fully understand what you are asking...

Also this has lead me to an idea that Justin's first post should also contain a link to the lesson this thread is about, in this case the Minor pentatonic, will help those trying to help others, say like Inspired here, is asking about something from the lesson, with a link it means those who can try to help can easily navigate to the lesson and check the page to answer. Saving time for the guys helping.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Inspired Insanity on October 24, 2008, 03:26:59 am
I'm sure I could help you with that but do not fully understand what you are asking...



hi josh

uhm yeah im just starting out with scales. I mean in that lesson hes got 5 minor pent positions. Im pretty sure they are all Am as their root note is an A so i take it that all those positions contribute to one scale.Therefor i was just wondering what the other minor pent scale postions are? For example Cm or Gm...

Thanks in advance for any help.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Quark on October 24, 2008, 05:02:09 am
Quote
Therefor i was just wondering what the other minor pent scale postions are? For example Cm or Gm...
Ok, if you take position One (E-shape) and start this on the low E string 5th fret then you are palying Am as you have already determined. Now if you play position One starting at the eighth fret on the low E String then you are playing the Cm pentatonic. (the eighth fret of the E string is the note C). If you start on the 3rd fret of the low E string and play Position One you are playing Gm pentatonic (3rd fret on the low E string of course is the note G). You can move position one up and down the neck. The root note will be on the low E string.
Now remember that you can use all five positions for each Key. Start with position one for all keys then work on to the next position. Hope this helps.

W
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: angle_fbi on December 07, 2008, 01:52:31 am

hello mr jason

this is your youngest brother abdulla from " BAHRAIN " small country in asia

teacher i want to ask you that theres a teacher taught me a minor pentatonic scale but not as the same way that you taught as

see below to the diagram

(http://up1.m5zn.com/photo/2008/12/6/10/3fsdorhts.jpg/jpg)


i hope that you understand the diagram because i just did it..


so mr jason i am confuse now

which minor pentatonic scale should i practice?

the one that you taught us? or the one who's my teacher taught me in the diagram above?


i am waiting for your replay

regards
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: PhillD on December 08, 2008, 04:54:58 pm
angle_fbi - not exactly sure what your diagram is showing but I'm guessing the confusion stems from that fact you can play a minor pentatonic scale in multiple positions. You may have learned a different position to the one Justin shows and that's why your confused.

If you are still confused then detail the fingering for a two octave version in Am. I will then try and help you out.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: juindjmj on December 28, 2008, 10:41:55 pm
ok. i know all the positions in the key of Am.. and now i would like to play songs in this key.. but the problem is that i don´t know any songs and i am an intermediate player.

I like blues rock, rock, blues, may be pop, like cream, zeppelin, clapton, beatles, etc 

can anybody tell me a few songs in the key of Am?

thanks a lot.. and sorry for my english
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: MrRoboto on December 28, 2008, 11:19:45 pm

Hello All,

In Justin's rendition of "Crossroad" and elsewhere, he make reference to a Pentatonic "shape," which appears to involve making a Minor Barre chord shape in the position where he wants to do the scale (e.g. 5th fret for A) and then rotates it to play the rest of the scale. Are my eyes deceiving me? If I've got this right, is the pentatonic shape covered in some lesson I haven't come across yet or am I totally out to lunch here (always a possibility)?

Thanks a bunch,

Matt.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: stevendale1 on January 03, 2009, 01:52:14 am
Greetings,

SC-002 The Minor Pentatonic Scale lists the shapes as being 1-E, 2-D, 3-C, 4-A and 5-G.  It seems to me the shapes are actually 1-G, 2-E, 3-D, 4-C and 5-A.

stevendale1
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on January 03, 2009, 09:10:01 am
They are being named after the major chord that would sit over those root notes - look at those root notes, if they are A notes to make A major chords you would form the shapes as given.

Position 1 - E shape
Imagine an A major barre chord at fret 5

Position 2 - D shape
Imagine an A major chord in the D shape at frets 9  and 10 (with first finger holding bass note A on fourth string at fret 7)

Position 3 - C shape
Imagine an A major chord in the C shape with either barre or capo on fret 10

Position 4 - A shape
Imagine an A major chord in the standard open position or at fret 14 with barre or capo on fret 12

Position 5 - G shape
Imagine an A major chord played in the same way as an open G chord with barre or capo on fret 2 (or barre or capo on fret 14)

Hope this helps
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: stevendale1 on January 04, 2009, 10:52:43 pm
Thanks for the reply.  I see a different naming convention used for the five minor pentatonic forms.  As shown at http://www.highcountryguitar.com/caged.htm (you have to scroll down to see the pentatonic forms).

stevendale1

Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Stray_cat59 on January 09, 2009, 10:25:08 pm
Ok, when it comes to scales, I'm a bit lost.. I know the 5 pentatonic patterns, so theres 12 keys, does that mean theres a major and a minor pentatonic for each one? Whats the diffrence betwin, say G pentatonic major and minor? My main goal now is to figure out how the pentatonics work and to master it.. I know the G major pentatonic all the way down the neck, but where do I go from there..?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: stevendale1 on January 10, 2009, 01:45:37 am
There are five pentatonic scale patterns.  A particular pattern played in a particular position on the fretboard covers both a major pentatonic scale and a minor pentatonic scale.  This is because every major scale has a relative minor scale containing the name notes.  For example the C scale (CDEFGAB) and the A minor scale (ABCDEFG) contain the same notes - but with a different root.  If you start with C and follow the major scale intervals you get no sharps or flats.  If you start with A and follow the minor intervals you get no sharps or flats - the same notes,  different root.  Similarly, the particular pentatonic pattern in a particular position contains the notes of both a major pentatonic scale and a minor pentatonic scale.  For example, on the below URL, diagram 1 shows both an A minor pentatonic (minor roots shown, including index finger on the 6 string in the 5th fret which is an A) and a major pentatonic (major roots shown, including pinkie on 6 string in 8th fret, a C).  (Slide this form towards the bridge one fret and you have an A# minor pentatonic and / or a C# major pentatonic.)  To continue playing your A minor or C major lead up the neck you shift patterns as shown.  Sorry so long.  Hope this is helpful.

http://www.i-love-guitar.com/support-files/guitar_scales_pentatonics_c_aminor.pdf

stevendale1
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: PhillD on January 20, 2009, 10:25:55 pm
KoolPC this is where we can answer your thread question on scales:

Here is a simple show of the scales in tab rather than diagrams, although learn the diagrams back from this.

A Pentatonic Minor - 5 positions 1 octave
1.
e                  3   5
B         3    5
G  2  5
D
A
E

2.
e                           5
B                5    8
G      5    7
D  7
A
E

3.
e     
B                       8    10
G            7    9
D  7   10
A
E

4.
e   
B                             10
G                   9   12
D       10   12
A  12
E

5.
e   
B   
G                      12  14
D            12  14
A  12  15
E

Notice anything interesting about the last fret numbers on the string and the first fret numbers on the same string in the following position - yep they're the same.
So if you just played position 4 and want to know position 5 you know in position 4 you played 12, 12, 12 as the last notes on the strings and the root in 5 position has to be an A so its a 12. So 5 position starts as 12, 12, 12 on those respective strings. Now you can figure the rest out from there.
Easy huh.

Hope this has sorted out any issues


Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Koolpc on January 20, 2009, 10:42:21 pm
Sorry, still looks confusing to me. Don't understand the diagram at all now!! lol

How does 1. relate to this picture:

(http://www.justinguitar.com/images/SC_images/Scale_MinPent-1.gif)

What fret do i start on? Is it number 2 or what?

Do i work from left to right, Low E to High E? I,e: 1(R) + (4) then (1) + (3) etc? Going down and back up again and again?

Those numbers are the finger to use?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: PhillD on January 21, 2009, 08:59:52 am
KoolPC that is a two octave version of what I tabbed for you, so for clarity here is a two octave version (I set this as no. 2 in A).
The chord box works from left to right with left being bottom E (6) string and the right being top E (1) string.
Where it says R it means a root note so find, in my case, A on the 6th string (if you don't know its the 5th fret (a nice marker dot one). Now stick your first finger on that string (hence the 1). Next using your little finger (4th) play 8th fret of the same string (note how far apart the R and 4 dots are for your fret).
Now move down a string and with your first finger play the 5th fret of the fifth string, then the 7th fret of the fifth string with your 3rd finger. Keep going until you get to the end.

I listed this as no 2 when doing A as the root note of the scale is the first note, so in the lowest point on the fret board you can play A Minor Pentatonic with two octaves, you have to start on 5th fret of E string.

Does this make sense now?
Here's A in two octaves.
e                                                      5   8
B                                           5    8
G                                5    7
D                      5   7
A             5   7
E   5   8

Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Koolpc on January 21, 2009, 07:47:43 pm
Thanks. Understand the top Pic but not the one you have drawn! lol Sorry.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: PhillD on January 21, 2009, 10:51:44 pm
KoolPC what I have written out is pretty much the same as Justin's scale box diagram, but in tab form for a specific root note, ie A.

The tab tells you the fret, the string and the order to play them in.
You will need to learn how to read tab if you want to progress with guitars as 90% of the songs you come across will be tab'd out. So I'll give it one last shot.

If you look at the letters on the left of the tab then these are the string letters on your guitar, so bottom string (fattest) is E, next one towards the floor is A and so on until you reach top string (thinnest) which is also e. Way of remembering is Eddie Ate Dynamite Good Bye Eddie.

Now the numbers being shown are not the fingers to use, but the fret to place your finger on. So a 5 means the fifth fret of whatever string the number is on. You read tab left to right and fret whatever notes the tab indicates and play any string with a number. If the numbers were on top of each other it indicates play them both together so this:
e 0
B 0
G 0
D 2
A 2
E 0
would indicate play all the strings but fret the A and D strings at the 2nd fret. Or in other words play Em open chord.

The tab I wrote and the chord box is exactly the same, but my tab version applies only to the A minor pentatonic, for say the B minor pentatonic simply shift all those numbers up two frets (because you start on B as the root, which is the 7th fret). This is the beauty of transpositional scales, learn one in one position and you can play any of the other roots as the shape stays the same, you just move up or down the fretboard to find your start point!

Take my tab - stick your first finger on A (5th fret) note of the E String and play it, then pick the strings fretting at the frets I have listed in the tab and you will see it all makes sense - oh and you will have just played your A Minor Pentatonic Scale. Then take Justin's scale box diagram and do the same, it will produce the same results if you start at A. Once you can relate this you have just learnt a valuable thing about tab for future song reading.

If its still confusing let me know and I'll see if I can make it any easier but if you try playing it then it should all become a lot clearer!

Hopefully this is making some sense now.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Koolpc on January 21, 2009, 11:11:33 pm
KoolPC what I have written out is pretty much the same as Justin's scale box diagram, but in tab form for a specific root note, ie A.

The tab tells you the fret, the string and the order to play them in.
You will need to learn how to read tab if you want to progress with guitars as 90% of the songs you come across will be tab'd out. So I'll give it one last shot.

If you look at the letters on the left of the tab then these are the string letters on your guitar, so bottom string (fattest) is E, next one towards the floor is A and so on until you reach top string (thinnest) which is also e. Way of remembering is Eddie Ate Dynamite Good Bye Eddie.

Now the numbers being shown are not the fingers to use, but the fret to place your finger on. So a 5 means the fifth fret of whatever string the number is on. You read tab left to right and fret whatever notes the tab indicates and play any string with a number. If the numbers were on top of each other it indicates play them both together so this:
e 0
B 0
G 0
D 2
A 2
E 0
would indicate play all the strings but fret the A and D strings at the 2nd fret. Or in other words play Em open chord.

The tab I wrote and the chord box is exactly the same, but my tab version applies only to the A minor pentatonic, for say the B minor pentatonic simply shift all those numbers up two frets (because you start on B as the root, which is the 7th fret). This is the beauty of transpositional scales, learn one in one position and you can play any of the other roots as the shape stays the same, you just move up or down the fretboard to find your start point!

Take my tab - stick your first finger on A (5th fret) note of the E String and play it, then pick the strings fretting at the frets I have listed in the tab and you will see it all makes sense - oh and you will have just played your A Minor Pentatonic Scale. Then take Justin's scale box diagram and do the same, it will produce the same results if you start at A. Once you can relate this you have just learnt a valuable thing about tab for future song reading.

If its still confusing let me know and I'll see if I can make it any easier but if you try playing it then it should all become a lot clearer!

Hopefully this is making some sense now.

Gee, many thanks mate. Thanks for putting time into teaching me. I appreciate it. So, just to clarify:

A Pentatonic Minor - 5 positions 1 octave
1.
e                  3   5
B         3    5
G  2  5
D
A
E

I know the letters are the strings. so i would put my 1st finger on the string G at the 2nd Fret and say the 3rd finger on the String G at the 5th? Always working from left to right?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on January 22, 2009, 06:58:53 am
congrats on patient replies philld

koolpc

it would really help you to watch justin's video lessons

really ...
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: PhillD on January 22, 2009, 11:39:18 am
KoolPC you can use whichever figures you want, however to me it makes more sense to have your fourth (little) finger do the 5th fret. It is a personal choice though, there are no hard rules, it is just neater, quicker and will build your little finger strength. Something you will need in the future.

Put your hand on the fretboard with first finger at 2nd fret, the other fingers will naturally take the 3rd, 4th and 5th frets and so you don't have to jump about. With scales you always have your first finger playing the lowest number fret and the other fingers playing the next frets along wherever possible. This minimises jumping about the neck and means you sound more fluid and fast.

No problem with teaching people - if I hadn't had help from mates I wouldn't be half the guitarist I am today (that's not a great improvement anyway lol). Just make sure you pass on the knowledge like Justin does and get more people into music.

If you need anymore help let me know but I'm at work today and teaching later so it might take a bit to reply.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Koolpc on January 22, 2009, 11:36:14 pm
congrats on patient replies philld

koolpc

it would really help you to watch justin's video lessons

really ...

I did say that i have watched Justins Video but he has no close up while doing the scales on the one i watched! The video was too far away to see what his fingers were doing!
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on January 23, 2009, 07:17:16 am

I did say that i have watched Justins Video but he has no close up while doing the scales on the one i watched! The video was too far away to see what his fingers were doing!


koolpc

ok

try watching this vid

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RZRw1m2yW84


ps sorry that this isn't a justin link but supplementary tuition is ok in my book
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: PhillD on January 23, 2009, 09:16:28 am
KoolPC here is the fingering I would use for this scale (its exactly the same as the chord box diagram) in brackets next to the fret numbers of the tab so
E 2[1] would mean E string, 2nd fret using first finger.

This is in no way a standard notation and you will probably never see it again but this might clarify something. So here it is:

A Pentatonic Minor - 1 octave
1.
e                  3[2]   5[4]
B         3[2]    5[4]
G  2[1]  5[4]
D
A
E

So the scale fingering is 1st finger, 4th finger, 2nd finger, 4th finger, 2nd finger and then 4th finger.
A simple rule is to look at a scale, figure out the lowest fret you will use, this will almost always be done by the first finger. Look at the highest fret you will use in the scale, this should be done by your 4th finger. Now if the scale is only four frets wide you know all your fingerings without having to move. Think about it this way, if you use your first finger on the 2nd fret then your 2nd finger naturally falls on the third fret, your 3rd finger falls on the fourth fret and fourth finger lies on the 5th fret. If this doesn't make sense then move your the whole scale down a fret to start on the first fret - now your fingering should equal the number of the fret you are fretting! Oh if you don't know this is A flat Pentatonic minor.




Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Koolpc on January 23, 2009, 11:16:56 pm
Hi

Gee, superb help. I think i get it now. Only problem is my fingers don't span the frets properly!! Need to limber them up!!

Many thanks guys for your superb help. I will have a go tomorrow and report back.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: askip3 on February 03, 2009, 07:45:08 pm
I've searched everywhere so I apologize if this is a repeat question, but regarding scales...Should I practice using the same finger pattern in all positions up and down the neck, or is it Ok to just use three fingers above the 12th fret where things get so cramped.  I am asking, what is the proper way to do it?  Thanks!
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: PhillD on February 03, 2009, 09:12:16 pm
Once your past the 12th fret you can use three or sometimes two fingers without problem as there isn't the space. With Minor pentatonic you can even get away with using 1st and 3rd fingers for it all.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Elrohirguitar on March 10, 2009, 02:21:40 pm
I just stumbled on a great song to practice minor pentatonic scales: Gasoline Alley by Rod Stewart. I had started picking out the song and realized that I was essentially playing the Em pentatonic scale. Much more fun than just playing a scale.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Plan.B on March 14, 2009, 01:19:59 pm
OK I've got loads of questions about scales..and I'm about to explode with tears  :'(  I've been messing up soo much! Please help me!

1.  In the minor pentatonic scale, can I put those shapes on any fret on the guitar? Why/Why not? If not how do i know where to put them?

2. Is there such thing as an Am/Bm/Cm/Dm/Fm/Gm minor scale ?

3. How come there's 2 root notes on the diagram?

4. How can you tell if a songs in the key if A/B/C/D/E/F/G?

5.When improvising/soloing on songs can you use any other notes or only those ones? (By can I guess I mean should)

6. Justin said on the video that you should start on the root note, is that for soloing or just so it sounds good when practising?

7. What's the major scale? Is it the same thing as the major pentatonic scale?


8. I don't understand the formula TS ^ T ^ T ^ TS ^ T. I could memorise it but I wouldn't understand any of it. COuld someone please help?

9. When soloing  do you have to go in order? I mean from one to the other, not in order or not backwards...


I think that's it :)

I really appreciate it. I love this site it's great for people who don't have the money to spen


PS I imagine some of these questions are stupid sounding but better to be safe then sorry :)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on March 14, 2009, 01:37:38 pm
1.  In the minor pentatonic scale, can I put those shapes on any fret on the guitar? Why/Why not? If not how do i know where to put them?[/quote

Yes and by doing so you change the key to whatever the root note of the new position is ...

at fret 5 key of A
at fret 10 key of D etc .... learn the notes on at least E and A strings to fret 12



2. Is there such thing as an Am/Bm/Cm/Dm/Fm/Gm minor scale ?

do you mean minor pentatonic scale?
If so yes, see answer above.
If you mean minor scale, yes ... but forget all about those for a while yet.



3. How come there's 2 root notes on the diagram?

root notes are the same note an octave apart ... remember 'the sound of music' ...


do re me fah so la ti do
do a deer a female deer, etc

do and do are the same note - octaves apart

4. How can you tell if a songs in the key if A/B/C/D/E/F/G?]/quote]

by the underlying chords ... lots of mentions in Justin's lessons



5.When improvising/soloing on songs can you use any other notes or only those ones? (By can I guess I mean should)

stick with the minor pentatonic until you are comfortable and familiar then incorporate blue note after that the dorian...see the lessons in Blues section


you could also learn major scale to help you understand the theory and give some more soloing ideas but not essential

6. Justin said on the video that you should start on the root note, is that for soloing or just so it sounds good when practising?]/quote]
for practise, to get the sound of it clear in your ear ... when soloing you will very often end a lick or phrase on the root but not necessarily


7. What's the major scale? Is it the same thing as the major pentatonic scale?
no, the major scale is the building block of all western music, it has seven notes

the pentatonic is five notes and is drawn from notes of the major scale with a change to one of them - the 3rd is flattened (played a half tone lower)



8. I don't understand the formula TS ^ T ^ T ^ TS ^ T. I could memorise it but I wouldn't understand any of it. COuld someone please help?
T stands for tone ... notes that are two frets apart

S stands for semi-tone...notes that are adjacent on the fretboard


9. When soloing  do you have to go in order? I mean from one to the other, not in order or not backwards...

absolutlely not...it would sound dull and boring, watch Justin's first vid on Blues licks in position 1 and how to start using them


Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Plan.B on March 15, 2009, 10:21:02 am
Thanks close2u   :)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Im_from_Russia on March 17, 2009, 01:38:16 pm
Hey guys, have just a one question, is it important for all fingers of the left hand to be very close to the strings, which even do not playing the note? (i mean do the staff like in the exercise of minimum movements) cause my finger 2, which is not used in the first given Minor pentatonic is a bit far, mb it's better to keep him close? mb for the future improvisation or it doesn't matter...?

thank you very much )

Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Flux on April 02, 2009, 11:17:20 am
OK, question:

If you were playing along to a song in the key of Am then when playing lead can you use notes from all five positions? To put it another way, can you move into different positions?!
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on April 02, 2009, 11:49:23 am
yes absolutely and you want to develop expressive phrases that link the positions

this all becomes clear as you work through the lessons on the blues minor pentatonic / licks / linking positions that Justin shows
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: PhillD on April 03, 2009, 11:28:34 am
Flux as close2u says you eventually want to be able to move between scale positions seemlessly, for instance building a run that spans two or three scale positions is a great way of getting up and down the neck without just jumping a few octaves.
Remember once you get beyond the twelfth fret everything repeats so you can essentially play the same riff you just played near the knut at the bridge.

If you want to practice moving between shapes look at the start and end notes on each string between each shape. See a pattern or overlap? Well if you want to jump you can simply hammer on, or slide or whatever to go higher frets, or pull offs and slides to go lower frets and a new shape.

This where sounding expressive kicks in as you have so many things to play with your spoilt for choice, probably find you end up playing about a thousand variations when you practice! Pretty soon it doesn't sound like your playing scales anymore.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: thirdeyetc on April 08, 2009, 06:42:38 am
Wooohooo. Finally someone discusses linking up the positions and why you'd do it. Exactly what I was after. This so amazing to me. Five notes. Five Positions all linking up like a big puzzle. How'd anyone ever figure this xx--xx out? Mind blowing.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Plan.B on April 11, 2009, 09:58:45 am
Hello

1 How come there's different shapes in the minor pentatonic scale? A...G..C etc? Do ALL scales have different shapes?....Isnt that just a new scale? OR are they used in certain cases?

2 Justin said that you can move a scale anywhere. Does that mean I could start it on the 5th,4th, 3rd ... string and if so wouldn't that just be the same as the scale beginning on the 6th string with a different root note hence when soloing, there's no difference?

3 I still don't understand the formula TS ^ T ^ T ^ TS ^ T ..I understand what they stand for ...but don't understand the formula

Thanks a billion
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on April 11, 2009, 10:20:31 am
1 How come there's different shapes in the minor pentatonic scale? A...G..C etc? Do ALL scales have different shapes?....Isnt that just a new scale? OR are they used in certain cases?

the same 5 notes in different positions on the neck and, of course, as you move up the neck, the pitch rises .. but the same scale because it is the same 5 notes

position 1 of a minor pent repeats - find it starting at fret 5 and fret 17 (an octave higher)

different shape patterns appear due to the asymmetric tuning of guitar strings (there's a proper name for this I'm sure)


2 Justin said that you can move a scale anywhere. Does that mean I could start it on the 5th,4th, 3rd ... string and if so wouldn't that just be the same as the scale beginning on the 6th string with a different root note hence when soloing, there's no difference?

you can move it anywhere so that you are then able to play the same scale pattern in a different key!!

do not move a minor pent position 1 up two frets and continue playing over (for example) a blues in A ... because you would be playing a b minor pent ... by shifting where the scale (root note) is you change key

the patterns stay the same though

3 I still don't understand the formula TS ^ T ^ T ^ TS ^ T ..I understand what they stand for ...but don't understand the formula

it's just the way it is (convention)


 :)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Plan.B on April 11, 2009, 10:55:44 am
I still don't understand the answers to questions 1 & 2  :'( :'(
I'm soooo confused right now, my brain doesn't work logically  ???
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on April 11, 2009, 11:02:45 am
plan.b

say where are you at now in terms of your learning the scales and musical know how ... then an answer can be pitched accordingly
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Spin on April 15, 2009, 12:41:20 am
Oh wow...that link to high country guitar was amazingly helpful. I've known the minor pentatonic (the G shape one) for a long while now, but when I started to learn "the major" I saw people doing it differently. They didn't talk about the notes or anything, just the shape. Suddenly all those solos and runs that start in open position and end up halfway up the neck make sense. I can't believe I actually understand the connection now! (or all the practice I have ahead of me now lol)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: oasis94 on April 15, 2009, 05:42:05 pm
hi, i was wandering...

if you are playing a song in the key of C, and u want to play a solo over it, can u play the minor pentatonic scale over it? and do u play the c minor pentatonic, or the A minor (relative minor) pentatonic scale?

thanks
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Simonovski on April 15, 2009, 08:22:01 pm
So I understand that I can move the A Minor Pentatonic scale to the 8th fret, for example, and that makes it the C Minor Pentatonic scale. But what if I move it to the 6th? Can you have the A# Minor Pentatonic scale?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Spin on April 17, 2009, 02:47:41 am
You can have a minor pentatonic scale in any key, flat or sharp. Its just a pattern of available notes, and there's no reason why you couldn't use any root note that you want.

From the High Country Guitar link earlier (http://www.highcountryguitar.com/caged.htm (http://www.highcountryguitar.com/caged.htm)), if you were playing in the key of C the relative minor would be Am...so you'd play on the 5th fret. As long as you're using the "normal" shape that we all seem to learn first. If you want to spice it up a bit you could play one of the other shapes starting at the appropriate note on a different string.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Wrettie on April 18, 2009, 08:10:40 pm
Hi guys,

Im having a little problem here. I was listening to a song called Spoonman (by Soundgarden) and I was wondering which minor pentatonic scale should I use to improvise ?

Main riff uses these chords: F5, D5, G5, A5 and C5
According to this, the song seems to be in a key of C.

Question1)

So, can I use any of the minor pent scales to improvise the song or make up my own solo ? (key of F, D, G, A or C minor pent. scales). Or can I use maybe couple of them by changing the scale "key" in the middle of the song ? Or is there only one minor pent scale that I could use ? To make this simple. Lets say that Im using only position 1 (E-shape).

Question2)

Same as the above but the chords were F, Dm, G, Am, and C (5 chords of the key of C).


-Wrettie

PS. I know that the song is played in drop D, but lets ignore it to make this simple :)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: docal97 on May 01, 2009, 04:21:18 am
So are there any specific lessons to link the pentatonic scales?  I think this would be a great lesson for Justin to consider posting(unless I have missed it's location on the site, but I don't think so).  I do see reference to a video by Justin called sc-025, which I thought would be relevant, but I can't find it anywhere.

I'd appreciate any comments/help.

Thanks!
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: servello on May 01, 2009, 05:00:00 am
http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BL-027-LinkingPositions.php
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: MediaMan09 on May 19, 2009, 07:05:14 pm

First post.

Question 1) I find the graphics you have , (in this case for the minor pentatonic scale) for the 5 patterns, to be invaluable, Do you have simialr graphics for some ogher scales, such as :

- the 5 patterns for major pentatonic ?
- the 5 patterns for the major (ionian) scale ?
- the 5 patterns for the minor (aseolian) scale ?
- the 5 patterns for the Blues scale ?
- the 5 patterns for the Mixolydian scale ?

Question 2)  Keeping with minor pentatonic scale for now, I get (more or less) that any of these pattern can slide up or down the scale, and that for a specific position on the fret board, the scale begins with the lowest root. My question :Is there are ready reference that tells me the correct set of psoosible pattern for a particular root/note/key, eg:
      For the "C"  minor pentatonic,
         use pattern 1 (root starting in fret x or y), or
         use pattern 2 (root starting in fret x, y, or z) or
         use pattern 4 (root starting in fret x, y)
         do not use pattern 3 or 5      
      For the "C#" minor pentatonic,
         use pattern 2 (root starting in fret x or y), or
         use pattern 3 (root starting in fret x, y, or z) or
         use pattern 4 (root starting in fret x, y)
         do not use pattern 1 or 5
      For the "D"  minor pentatonic,
         use pattern 1 (root starting in fret x or y), or
         use pattern 4 (root starting in fret x, y, or z) or
         use pattern 5 (root starting in fret x, y)
         do not use pattern 2 or 3
      For the "E" minor pentatonic,
      etc



Ref: http://justinguitar.com/en/SC-002-MinorPentatonicScale.php
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on May 19, 2009, 08:20:48 pm

First post.


hello ..  :)



- the 5 patterns for the Blues scale ?

yes there are ... and the dorian modes that match ... look under the blues lessons

...
         do not use pattern 3 or 5      
      


...
         do not use pattern 1 or 5
      
...         do not use pattern 2 or 3
      
...      etc


You can use any of the patterns 1 2 3 4 and 5 by picking your root note to match the key

eg I IV V blues progression in A

use A minor pentatonic from any of the 5 positions/ patterns...


I'm not sure why you seem to be saying that you cannot use some of the positions ... that is not correct

 :)

hope that helps
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: MediaMan09 on May 19, 2009, 08:55:08 pm
may thanks. Follow- ups :

Q1
Re graphics, I still cant find some on the site. Can you supply a link?

 - 5 patterns for minor pentatonic scale -  http://justinguitar.com/en/SC-002-MinorPentatonicScale.php
 - 5 patterns for major pentatonic -  http://www.justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=10428.0
 - 5 patterns for major (ionian) scale -  http://justinguitar.com/en/SC-001-TheMajorScale.php
 - 5 patterns for minor (aeolian) scale  -  ???
 - 5 patterns for Blues scale  -  only found 3 ?? patterns here : http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BL-012-BluesScales.php


Q2
Re what patterns  can be used for what key, I gather you saying that, for Minor pentatonic (and perhaps for any scale), that any of the 5 patterns and be used to play any of the 12 keys( ie any of ( C,C#,D,D#, E,F,F#,G,G#,A,A#, B?? ). Correct?

Is there not a ready reference that says:
-   Pattern 1 starting in the 1st fret means you are playing an X scale
-   Pattern 1 starting in the 2nd fret means you are playing an X scale
-   Pattern 1 starting in the 3nd fret means you are playing an X scale
-           .....
-   Pattern 1 starting in the 15th  fret means you are playing an X scale
-   etc.
-   etc
-   Pattern 2 starting in the 1st fret means you are playing an X scale
-   Pattern 2 starting in the 2nd fret means you are playing an X scale
-   Pattern 2 starting in the 3nd fret means you are playing an X scale
-           ...
-   Pattern 2 starting in the 15th fret means you are playing an X scale

Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on May 19, 2009, 09:12:59 pm
pattern graphics


 position 1 lesson BL 012
http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BL-012-BluesScales.php

position 2 lesson BL 016
http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BL-016-MinPentPos2.php

position 3 lesson Bl 021
http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BL-021-MinPentBluesPos3.php

position 4 lesson BL 024
http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BL-023-MinPentBluesPos4.php

position 5 lesson BL 025
http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BL-025-MinPentBluesPos5.php


Dorian scale positions 1-5 lesson BL 028
http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BL-028-DorianApproch.php

may thanks. Follow- ups :

Q1
Re graphics, I still cant find some on the site. Can you supply a link?

 - 5 patterns for minor pentatonic scale -  http://justinguitar.com/en/SC-002-MinorPentatonicScale.php
 - 5 patterns for major pentatonic -  http://www.justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=10428.0
 - 5 patterns for major (ionian) scale -  http://justinguitar.com/en/SC-001-TheMajorScale.php
 - 5 patterns for minor (aeolian) scale  -  ???
 - 5 patterns for Blues scale  -  only found 3 ?? patterns here : http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BL-012-BluesScales.php


Q2
I gather you saying that, for Minor pentatonic  ... that any of the 5 patterns and be used to play any of the 12 keys ( ie any of  C,C#,D,D#, E,F,F#,G,G#,A,A#, B?? ). Correct?

yes

Quote
Is there not a ready reference that says:
-   Pattern 1 starting in the 1st fret means you are playing an X scale
-   Pattern 1 starting in the 2nd fret means you are playing an X scale
-   Pattern 1 starting in the 3nd fret means you are playing an X scale
-           .....
-   Pattern 1 starting in the 15th  fret means you are playing an X scale
-   etc.
-   etc
-   Pattern 2 starting in the 1st fret means you are playing an X scale
-   Pattern 2 starting in the 2nd fret means you are playing an X scale
-   Pattern 2 starting in the 3nd fret means you are playing an X scale
-           ...
-   Pattern 2 starting in the 15th fret means you are playing an X scale




yes you are right and the ready reference is the ROOT note that you find in the pattern starting at fret x, y or z etc


so fret 12 position 1 ... key of E


fret 12 position 2 ... not the key of E because the root is not the first note of that pattern .. the root is the C# on the D string at fret 11 so play this position 2 at fret 12 in key C#
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: MediaMan09 on May 19, 2009, 10:22:19 pm
Why do some scale generators show a pattern for MINOR PENTATONIC (for example)  that is DIFFERENT from the five patterns ??

eg: http://jguitar.com/scale?root=C&scale=Minor+Pentatonic&fret=1&labels=letter&notes=sharps

In this example, one can produce 18 differnt scales, all for C MINOR PENTATONIC.. some which have one of the 5 shapes, some which do not. Are they all valid??

Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: MediaMan09 on May 20, 2009, 04:02:11 am
OK. I've been trying to get my head around this in a 'visual' way, and I think it finally clicked once I came up with a presentation format that works for me.  Thought I would share it in the hope it may help others.

See: http://ca.geocities.com/[email protected]/docs/MediaMan09-MinorPentatonicScales.pdf

I've seen bits and pieces of this on the web, but not quite in this format or completeness. For me it answers a lot of questions, and it helps form a baseline reference to ask even more questions and continue the learning.

I plan to do the same for a few other scales ( ie Major, Minor, Blues, Pentatonic Major)

I would welcome any comments/suggestions/corrections etc

Thanks.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on May 20, 2009, 06:37:15 am
everything you have created is good and correct ... but ... you're spending time reinventing the wheel ... this stuff is already out there

try this site

http://www.studybass.com/tools/chord-scale-note-printer/
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: MediaMan09 on May 20, 2009, 11:10:36 am
Thanks. Yes there are many tools out there, including the one at  jguitar.com which I referenced earlier, but these all appear to be one-at-a-time scale generators. I was looking for the 'big-picutre, something that that showed me, all at once:
- all patterns
- all positions for each pattern
- all root notes shown in their fret position
- all scales labelled in each position
- all frets shown for the entire fretboard  with frets numbered frets and notes shown
- printable (so even if I am not near a computer, I can practice - I  keep these sheeets in a binder and grab the binder when I want to practice

So while there are many elements of this out there, I have yet to see one that had it all.

As I said, it helped answer a lot for me, Your mileage may vary!



Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on May 20, 2009, 11:20:29 am
Like I said - everything you have created is good and correct.

My reservation is down to the fact that, in actual playing, you will be using - [say in the key of A] - A minor pentatonic in any of the 5 positions, linking those positions up and down the fretboard.  You may just use position 1 of A minor pentatonic and play a decent solo.  You will not be using position 1 pattern in all keys if you are playing in the key of A.  The diagrams in this sense do not give you an overview of what scale patterns / positions you can use to any particular chord progression or song.

They are good and correct but not sufficient so I'm simply trying to suggest you attempt to use what already exists before spending more time oing what might not be necessary.

 :)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: MediaMan09 on May 20, 2009, 11:41:29 am
Yes agreed. These dont show or describe linking positions up and down the fretboard or state what scale patterns / positions you can use to any particular chord progression or song. That was not the intent though. I need to crawl before I walk. I was just trying to grasp some basics. Recall where I am coming from, Yesterday I still didnt know where position 1 of A minor pentatonic was !!!  So linking patterns and chord progression, while needed, was miles ahread of where I was trying to go.  It's only a learning aid for a beginner like me with more questions than answers.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on May 20, 2009, 12:35:05 pm
Understood ...  :)


And in that case I would strongly advise that you concentrate on just one key at a time ...

It's good to have the graphics for the others but train your muscle memory in A minor pentatonic position 1 ...

the A minor pentatonic position 2 etc


Only when you are fairly fluent and / or confident at this should you start moving to other keys ...

trust me ... that's where I'm at in my learning and moving keys really messes with your head at first 
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: MediaMan09 on May 20, 2009, 04:03:23 pm
Excellent suggestions.....I will indeed start with A Minor Pentatonic and work my way up the patterns....which I now know means:

- Fret 5 , Pattern 1
- Fret 7 , Pattern 2
- Fret 9 , Pattern 3
- Fret 12 , Pattern 4
- Fret 14 , Pattern 5

I assume !
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: MediaMan09 on May 20, 2009, 10:49:27 pm
QUESTION ....

Re the A minor Pentatonic example, if I start with Pattern 1, and work thru to Pattern 5, then my scales would be as follows:

Pattern 1 (E-shape): Frets 5 thru 8 (Root = 6th string, Fret 5)
Pattern 2 (D-Shape): Frets 7 thru 10 (Root = 4th string, Fret 7)
Pattern 3 (C-Shape): Frets 9 thru 13 (Root = 5th string, Fret 12)
Pattern 4 (A-Shape): Frets 12 thru 15 (Root = 5th string, Fret 12)
Pattern 5 (G-Shape): Frets 14 thru 17 (Root = 6th string, Fret 17)

HOWEVER, the following also seems to work:

Pattern 5 (G-Shape): Frets 2 thru 5 (Root = 6th string, Fret 5)
Pattern 1 (E-shape): Frets 5 thru 8 (Root = 6th string, Fret 5)
Pattern 2 (D-Shape): Frets 7 thru 10 (Root = 4th string, Fret 7)
Pattern 3 (C-Shape): Frets 9 thru 13 (Root = 5th string, Fret 12)
Pattern 4 (A-Shape): Frets 12 thru 15 (Root = 5th string, Fret 12)

So when someones says to play all 5 patterns for A Minor Pentatonic, do you start with the E shape (with notes spanning Frets 5 thru 17 as )...or do you start with the G-Shape ( with notes spanning Fret 2 thru 15)? In both cases the root is the same (6th string, Fret 5).


This is illustrated on the last page of this doc :http://ca.geocities.com/[email protected]/docs/MediaMan09-MinorPentatonicScales.pdf (http://ca.geocities.com/[email protected]/docs/MediaMan09-MinorPentatonicScales.pdf)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on May 21, 2009, 06:33:53 am
Well spotted - the scale patterns are a continuous pattern up and down the neck.

The position 1 is the one with the root note matching the lowest (bass) note of the pattern.

BUT ...

position 1 does not mean there are not other patterns lower down the neck. These are identical to those further up the neck ... this is simply due to octaves. The easiest one to realise this from is E minor pentatonic which starts with position 1 at the open string position then goes through all 5 positions before starting to repeat at fret 12 ... the octave of the open strings.

 :)

Having said that - stick with A minor for now.

Keep at it and don't worry too much ... enjoy the playing and the sound you make.

 ;D
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: MediaMan09 on May 21, 2009, 11:05:17 am
The position 1 is the one with the root note matching the lowest (bass) note of the pattern.

position 1 does not mean there are not other patterns lower down the neck. - stick with A minor for now.


But thats my question.
- I am sticking with A minor for now
- I am playing the lowest root not eof the pattern (6th string, Fret 5).
- I am starting with the first position

The question is I have two choices for that first position - which one should I spend my effort on?  Do I:
- start with the E shape (with notes spanning Frets 5 thru 17 as )...or do I
- start with the G-Shape ( with notes spanning Fret 2 thru 15)?





Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: MediaMan09 on May 21, 2009, 11:43:04 am
I checked Justins videos ( at SC-024) where he demos the 5 patterns, and he does start with higher version of Position 1, ie

Pattern 1 (E-shape): Frets 5 thru 8 (Root = 6th string, Fret 5)
Pattern 2 (D-Shape): Frets 7 thru 10 (Root = 4th string, Fret 7)
Pattern 3 (C-Shape): Frets 9 thru 13 (Root = 5th string, Fret 12)
Pattern 4 (A-Shape): Frets 12 thru 15 (Root = 5th string, Fret 12)

..and for the final pattern he shows both, in this order:

Pattern 5 (G-Shape): Frets 2 thru 5 (Root = 6th string, Fret 5)
Pattern 5 (G-Shape): Frets 14 thru 17 (Root = 6th string, Fret 17)

So now I am really confused as to which 5 to practice on, ie

Option 1:
Pattern 1 (E-shape): Frets 5 thru 8 (Root = 6th string, Fret 5)
Pattern 2 (D-Shape): Frets 7 thru 10 (Root = 4th string, Fret 7)
Pattern 3 (C-Shape): Frets 9 thru 13 (Root = 5th string, Fret 12)
Pattern 4 (A-Shape): Frets 12 thru 15 (Root = 5th string, Fret 12)
Pattern 5 (G-Shape):Frets 14 thru 17  ([/b]Root = 6th string, Fret 17)

Option 2
Pattern 1 (E-shape): Frets 5 thru 8 (Root = 6th string, Fret 5)
Pattern 2 (D-Shape): Frets 7 thru 10 (Root = 4th string, Fret 7)
Pattern 3 (C-Shape): Frets 9 thru 13 (Root = 5th string, Fret 12)
Pattern 4 (A-Shape): Frets 12 thru 15 (Root = 5th string, Fret 12)
Pattern 5 (G-Shape): Frets 2 thru 5 (Root = 6th string, Fret 5)

Option 3:
Pattern 5 (G-Shape): Frets 2 thru 5 (Root = 6th string, Fret 5)
Pattern 1 (E-shape): Frets 5 thru 8 (Root = 6th string, Fret 5)
Pattern 2 (D-Shape): Frets 7 thru 10 (Root = 4th string, Fret 7)
Pattern 3 (C-Shape): Frets 9 thru 13 (Root = 5th string, Fret 12)
Pattern 4 (A-Shape): Frets 12 thru 15 (Root = 5th string, Fret 12)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on May 21, 2009, 12:30:29 pm
I checked Justins videos ( at SC-024) where he demos the 5 patterns, and he does start with higher version of Position 1, ie

Pattern 1 (E-shape): Frets 5 thru 8 (Root = 6th string, Fret 5)
Pattern 2 (D-Shape): Frets 7 thru 10 (Root = 4th string, Fret 7)
Pattern 3 (C-Shape): Frets 9 thru 13 (Root = 5th string, Fret 12)
Pattern 4 (A-Shape): Frets 12 thru 15 (Root = 5th string, Fret 12)

..and for the final pattern he shows both, in this order:

Pattern 5 (G-Shape): Frets 2 thru 5 (Root = 6th string, Fret 5)
Pattern 5 (G-Shape): Frets 14 thru 17 (Root = 6th string, Fret 17)

So now I am really confused as to which 5 to practice on, ie


You have already said you are just getting to grips with position 1 .. keep at it.

Then 2, then 3, then 4.

!!!!! Very important - don't be in a hurry ... work really hard on all positions before moving on !!!


When you get to position 5 you will be a much more accomplished player than you are now and will want to use both positions that you refer to. 

Fine.

If you want a definite choice between them I think that you would benefit from playing the higher position at the 'dusty end of the neck' before the other though.  It continues your path up the neck and it just gives you that range of notes all the way up.

The other is important too. When you start playing in other keys you will realise why you need to be able to go both up and down from positon 1 patterns.


In the meantime ... relax and enjoy your learning.  You seem to be getting too hung up on something that Justin does teach step by step.

 :)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: MediaMan09 on May 21, 2009, 03:15:39 pm
So that appears to be Option 1. Thanks.

By the way, it's not that I am hung up on this - just cautious - I dont want to spend hundreds of hours practising something only to find out later that I am doing it all wrong. Much safer just to ask first!

Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on May 21, 2009, 03:28:02 pm
Always good to ask - keep asking - keep playing!!
 ;D
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: MediaMan09 on May 22, 2009, 12:35:01 am
Man its a lot easier on paper!

Getting there, but that pinky finger is a bugger. No problem on the high strings but just doesnt work on the low strings. I know, pratice, practice! How important is the pinky anyway ???!!!
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: whiteboy1150 on June 08, 2009, 02:13:05 am
Whenever I see Justin doing scales his hand lies perpendicular to the neck (fingers pointing towards the ceiling) all the way through. When I'm doing the A minor pentatonic scale I start like that so my pinky reaches the 8th fret of the 6th string but after that my hand sort of rotates (the same position it would be in to bend) for the rest of the scale. I find this way makes me able to go faster and feels more natural.

I'm not sure if this is incorrect and I don't want to keep doing scales like this if it's going to cause problems in the future. Any advice would be appreciated.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: ButterFingers on June 19, 2009, 10:08:00 am
Guys please help me

I am learning the minor pentatonic scales and have read most of the info. I understand most of it, but I have to make sure about this one thing:

Let's say the song that I want to play along to is in the key of A, do I then play the A minor pentatonic scale (using any one of the 5 positions with root note A) or what? ??? I know it has been asked before, but I did not see an answer...

Thank you.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: richard91 on June 19, 2009, 11:41:49 am
Guys please help me

I am learning the minor pentatonic scales and have read most of the info. I understand most of it, but I have to make sure about this one thing:

Let's say the song that I want to play along to is in the key of A, do I then play the A minor pentatonic scale (using any one of the 5 positions with root note A) or what? ??? I know it has been asked before, but I did not see an answer...

Thank you.

A major or A minor  ???

If A minor, then yes that is perfectly correct using any 5 positions with the root note A.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: ButterFingers on June 20, 2009, 07:42:24 am


A major or A minor  ???

If A minor, then yes that is perfectly correct using any 5 positions with the root note A.
[/quote]

But can I still use the minor pentatonic scale if the the song is in the key of e.g. G Major, or can it only be used with Am, Bm, Cm etc?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: ButterFingers on June 21, 2009, 09:47:09 pm
Little help please (pretty please)

Can I use the minor pentatonic scale for playing along to a song in the G major key for example? Will it be the E minor pentatonic scale that goes along with a song which is in G major key? Or what?

thanks.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: PhillD on June 25, 2009, 11:42:20 am
What you are talking about is the relative minor of a major key, to find the relative minor of a major scale find the sixth note of the major scale -that's the root of your minor scale.

In your example you'r espot on that G major has a relative minor of E minor. So then you can use Em pentatonic as its basically a cut down E natural minor.
You'll also notice that G major and E minor only have one sharp note in the scales, so if your in doubt that's a good check to do.
Basically the minor scale is the same as the major scale but starting in a different place (6th note of major scale) so follow that method and your sorted.

Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: lazybones on June 30, 2009, 03:09:46 pm
Hello there!

I got 1 question:

When I`m playing the minor pentatonic scale, my fingers tend to touch the lowest strings(which are not played at the time). For example - when I am starting the scale, lets say Am pent, pos. 1. - while playing the A note, my first finger slightly touches the 5th A string. The same thing is also happening for other fingers, when I am playing up and down the guitar neck. Is it allright? Or should my fingers be more rounder, so I`m touching ONLY the pressed string?

P.S. sorry for my english

Will be waitin` for the answers, thanks!
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: mstivi on July 03, 2009, 01:03:10 pm
hi.. I apologize if this is a repeat question...
o.k i'm starting now with the scales...
so in the beginners course here.. i learn'd the minor scale but only position 1
now that i finish the course and started the Intermediate Practice Routine
and in the scale Picking part it say to do it on the major scale position 1..
so now on the Knowledge part it say to learn scales.. so which one to start with major or minor ( i mean the 5 positions) ?????

and another question...
in the Scale Formula of the minor(TS ^ T ^ T ^ TS ^ T)... what is the Tone+Semitone?? which note is it?

thank you
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: PhillD on July 04, 2009, 03:30:19 pm
mstivi if you apply the formula to the minor pentatonic  you'll be able to see what that interval formula means.
Lets take A pentatonic minor for instance.
Stick your first finger on A of the 6 th string. Now we want Tone + Semi-Tone interval up from A (with each semi-tone equalling one fret) so 3 frets higher than A = C.
If you carry on using that formula you can work out the notes you will be playing.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: lazybones on July 05, 2009, 01:01:06 pm
Anyone?

Hello there!

I got 1 question:

When I`m playing the minor pentatonic scale, my fingers tend to touch the lowest strings(which are not played at the time). For example - when I am starting the scale, lets say Am pent, pos. 1. - while playing the A note, my first finger slightly touches the 5th A string. The same thing is also happening for other fingers, when I am playing up and down the guitar neck. Is it allright? Or should my fingers be more rounder, so I`m touching ONLY the pressed string?

P.S. sorry for my english

Will be waitin` for the answers, thanks!
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: lazybones on July 07, 2009, 07:49:34 am
 ???

Seems like this forum is dead, or no one wants to help...

Anyone?

Hello there!

I got 1 question:

When I`m playing the minor pentatonic scale, my fingers tend to touch the lowest strings(which are not played at the time). For example - when I am starting the scale, lets say Am pent, pos. 1. - while playing the A note, my first finger slightly touches the 5th A string. The same thing is also happening for other fingers, when I am playing up and down the guitar neck. Is it allright? Or should my fingers be more rounder, so I`m touching ONLY the pressed string?

P.S. sorry for my english

Will be waitin` for the answers, thanks!
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: PhillD on July 07, 2009, 08:45:18 am
Sorry been busy and not seen this in a while.
Ideally you shouldn't mute the strings above you should cleanly touch the individual strings, imagine if you were playing a double stop using the 1st and 5th of the scale you'd end up with a dead note.

However it is not the end of the world if you are doing individual notes.
Check the following:
1. You are pressing on with the tips of your fingers
2. You aren't pressing on too hard - if your fingers go white its a sign
3. Look at your hand position
4. Check the action of your guitar (probably worth getting it professionally setup and if you are on a strat style maybe stick 9s on it, les pauls possible stick hybrid strings or stick with 10s) as a high action means you press on harder to fret and press hard and your fingers spread out.

Don't worry too much though
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: lazybones on July 07, 2009, 11:41:26 am
Thanks for the reply.

When I am playing, strings above my fingers are not touched - I am only touching lower string(s)(starting on the 6th, slightly touching 5th string). And I am using fingertips. On the 12 fret, strings are about 6 to 7mm from the fingerboard. Should I lower the action?

Actually, I am considering getting private teacher. Don`t want to develop any bad habits.

Another thing, that I noticed - when I was playing 2 notes per ~ 160, I couldn`t go any faster, even with a lot of practice. Probably my picks angle was not precise enough.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: PhillD on July 07, 2009, 10:34:28 pm
Unfortunately without knowing your guitar and how it feels I couldn't tell you if that is too high for that guitar. It could be that any lower would cause it to buzz like a swarm of angry bees and so you'd be stuck with it. Best bet if its never had one is to take it and get it setup, you will feel the difference immediately.

If you are muting the string below again this points to a hand position issue, do you do it when fretting a C chord for example or is it just when doing solos?
Professional lessons are always a wise investment as with the best will in the world neither I nor even Justin can hope to help you in the same way a one-on-one lesson can, Justin is just a hell of a lot cheaper and damn good. They can also save you a lot of pain and bad habbits so learn a few chords and go and see one, if they don't help you can always leave. Remember though you are the customer and they should help you not spend all their time playing.

As I said muting a string you aren't playing isn't a hassle and you can play a double stop in 5ths without too much trouble either if its the string A string muted from an E string as you will be fretting the A string at a higher fret.

Take a photo (multiple angles please)if you get chance of you fretting a string and I'll see what I can see. If its too difficult don't worry.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Protogoras on July 07, 2009, 11:37:36 pm
hello, i  just want to play blues thats all i want,how should i get start to do for this i dont know . what should i do .would you please tell me in an order that can help me ...? i know the first step of the stairs which it s scales..

Thank You
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Linsen on July 07, 2009, 11:53:52 pm
http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BL-000-Blues.php
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: lazybones on July 08, 2009, 06:51:02 am
I got Mex Stratocaster. Seems like the action is OK, I lokeed at it once more - it is about 5-6 mm at the 12 fret.

I checked my fingering more carefully one more time. It seems, that I am only muting the A string, when starting the pentatonic. Apparently, when I am going down the scale, my fingers get more rounder and does not touch strings below.

Sorry about the fotos, got no usable camera at the time.

I have been playing guitar about 6 months, and I am at the near end of BC v1. This is absolutely the last time to get a private teacher.

Thanks for the pointers,
cheers!


Unfortunately without knowing your guitar and how it feels I couldn't tell you if that is too high for that guitar. It could be that any lower would cause it to buzz like a swarm of angry bees and so you'd be stuck with it. Best bet if its never had one is to take it and get it setup, you will feel the difference immediately.

If you are muting the string below again this points to a hand position issue, do you do it when fretting a C chord for example or is it just when doing solos?
Professional lessons are always a wise investment as with the best will in the world neither I nor even Justin can hope to help you in the same way a one-on-one lesson can, Justin is just a hell of a lot cheaper and damn good. They can also save you a lot of pain and bad habbits so learn a few chords and go and see one, if they don't help you can always leave. Remember though you are the customer and they should help you not spend all their time playing.

As I said muting a string you aren't playing isn't a hassle and you can play a double stop in 5ths without too much trouble either if its the string A string muted from an E string as you will be fretting the A string at a higher fret.

Take a photo (multiple angles please)if you get chance of you fretting a string and I'll see what I can see. If its too difficult don't worry.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: SLASH_IS_ROCKGOD on July 16, 2009, 07:20:05 am
i know the first one is in A minor but what are the others? or does it depend on where on the neck you play these scales?

hi j10jep2...
The potition in the chord boxes are all the Aminor pentationic scale. This is because the ROOT notes are 'A' therefor the scale is Am pentatonic. Im still a beginer to all the scale stuff but ive picked that up so far. I dont know what the positions for the other scales such as Cm pentatonic are but im prettu sure all those poitions hes shown are Am. I hope this was help enough. :)

to play it in another key, like Cmin, just translate it c. Instead of A being the first note you play, make C the first note you play, and then just play the scale as normal. that's about it.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: iceman on July 30, 2009, 09:57:53 pm
Hi,
Just a small question for the practice.
Justin says to "start on the lowest (pitched) root note", so do I infer from it that (for example) for practising the D-shape minor pentatonic, do I start from the 4rd string (D string) which has the root note? So, I dont need to play the E and A strings then? Then, why give their notation anyway?

WoW! Understanding scales are tough! lol..  :-\
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: PhillD on July 31, 2009, 08:54:21 am
The extra notes are there so you can see where you can go if you want to throw in extra notes to link to other scales. The scale generally runs from a root to an octave or back again (the R's in the diagrams as they are the note that is the same as the scale name ie A pentatonic minor begins and ends on A note). So in the D shape there is only one octave (1 R to another R) however all the notes that were between those two Rs are repeated above and below and as they are from the scale they can be played and not sound terrible.
For instance start on D string Root note and play all the way to R on the B string is 1 octave, you could then continue to the high E string and it would sound ok.

However if I just wanted to play a single octave of the scale I'd start at R on the D string (root) and head to R on the B string (octave)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: iceman on August 01, 2009, 11:25:14 am
Got it. Thanks man.  :)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: AusLucas on August 16, 2009, 11:11:50 am
Heyz
thanks for your lessons Justin

just wondering why there is no link for
SC-025 • The Minor Pentatonic - Melodic Patterns
SC-026 • Legato Pentatonics

Are you still creating these?

thanks mate ;D
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: richard91 on August 16, 2009, 03:36:55 pm
They are on Justin's long 'to do' list.
Those without links have not been created yet.

 ;)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale unclear
Post by: wakefieldyorkshire on August 24, 2009, 09:40:20 am
If i was playing lets say for the sake of simplicity in C major. Should i play over it in the pentatonic scale of C minor which will include E flat and B flat, or should i play over it in the relative A minor.   
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: luvbuzz on August 24, 2009, 10:12:21 pm
Hi not sure if im doing this right? my question is - what scale positions go over which chords and how do you know this

eg. with position 1 E what chord prog would that work over and how would i know which pos to play

hope that makes sense and its in the right place

thanks

Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale unclear
Post by: Zapped on September 01, 2009, 09:42:25 pm
If i was playing lets say for the sake of simplicity in C major. Should i play over it in the pentatonic scale of C minor which will include E flat and B flat, or should i play over it in the relative A minor.   

Actually, either of those ideas might work. If you play the C minor pentatonic (notes C Eb F G Bb) over a C major progression, you are intentionally introducing dissonance when you play the b3 (Eb) or b7 (Bb) - it's a bluesy, gritty, rock'n'roll vibe.

If you choose to A minor pentatonic over a C major progression, we actually call that a C major pentanonic (notes C D E G A). The notes are the same as the A minor pentatonic, but the root of the C major pentatonic scale is different than the A minor pentatonic (it's C instead of A). Using the C major pentatonic over a C major scale progression would sound consonant - an upbeat or folk vibe.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Zapped on September 01, 2009, 09:45:50 pm
Hi not sure if im doing this right? my question is - what scale positions go over which chords and how do you know this
eg. with position 1 E what chord prog would that work over and how would i know which pos to play

Each position uses the exact same scale - the exact same notes.  If the scale you've chosen fits the song, then every position works.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Vay on September 03, 2009, 10:36:17 pm
i was studying the circle of fifths and i was thinking about the relative minor for each majors, and i did some research on minor scales and i got confused a little during the research because of the 1-b3-4-5-b7, and i am guessing this is not a natural minor scale with whwwhww?

i applied the formula to notes A through G including flats or sharps and i got it wrong and i applied it to Major scales and i got it right...

Do all scales always use the major scale as a reference for building that particular scale such as the minor pentatonic?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Zapped on September 05, 2009, 11:09:02 pm
i was studying the circle of fifths and i was thinking about the relative minor for each majors, and i did some research on minor scales and i got confused a little during the research because of the 1-b3-4-5-b7, and i am guessing this is not a natural minor scale with whwwhww?
i applied the formula to notes A through G including flats or sharps and i got it wrong and i applied it to Major scales and i got it right...
Do all scales always use the major scale as a reference for building that particular scale such as the minor pentatonic?

If you're asking if the numbers we use for degrees of the scale - whether they're arabic or roman - always relate back to a major scale, the answer is yes. So back to your example starting at A, 1 means A, 2 means B, 3 means C#, 4 means D, 5 means E, 6 means F#, and 7 means G#. So the b3 is C-natural and the b7 is G-natural. You do have to know the notes of the major scale if you want to map the numbers (along with any flats or sharps) back to correct note-names.

You don't want to read b3 as "flat the third degree of a scale" because that will mess you up if you think the scale is minor. 3 always means "major 3rd" and b3 means "minor 3rd".

The A natural minor scale (notes A B C D E F G) is written 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7, or I bII bIII IV V bVI bVII in roman numerals. However, it's most common to reserve the roman numerals for triads built on the scale degree, not to simple refer to individual notes. So, for example, bIII in A means the C major chord.

We also use upper-case Roman numerals for major chords, lower-case for minor, and add a superscript "o" for diminished (or just a simple "o" in plain ASCII like an online forum). So the triads in A minor are really I biio bIII iv v bVI bVII (chords Am Bdim C Dm Em F G).
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: AICD99 on January 13, 2010, 03:51:09 pm
Questions...

OK, so newbie here. I have been struggling, with the help of Justins site, on scales. You can move each position up and down the neck right? Can multiple positions be incorporated in a song provided they are the same key? When playing multiple positions in the same key, you must start on the root note for whatever position you are currently using and continue from there? In other words, using Am Pent, If I start playing a solo in the 1st position at the 5th fret, I can move toward the bridge to the 17th fret 6th string and play the same 1st position but an octive higher? Or I could play some other position but must start on the root note? uggggghhhhh. I must be missing something. Also the chords to play underneath the notes are derived from the notes contained within the key? :c so much to think about, I can't imagine how folks do it when intoxicated.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: nephente on January 13, 2010, 08:59:20 pm
Hey AICD99,

Quote
Can multiple positions be incorporated in a song
A BIG Yes! All positions represent the same scale, they contain the same notes and you can definitly move up to the 17th fret with the Amin Pent.
The different positions are a convinient way to gather the notes of the scale within reach of your fingers, so you don't have to slide up and down the neck all the time.
And if you change position during a solo, you don't have to start on the root again  :). If you practice a scale you want to start and end on the lowest root to get uses to how the scale sounds.


In the simplest case you can play any chords from the (full) Aminor scale, which is the same as Cmajor, underneath your Amin Pentatonic. I that case the backing and the lead share the same notes.
The funny thing is, that the minor pentatonic is heavily used in Blues, where it is played over a MAJOR chord progression.
The basic Blues progression in the key of A is A7-D7-E7 which contains the note C#. The Amin pentatonic on the other hand has a natural C in it. One might think this should sound rubbish, but truth is, it works wonderful.

Might be, the last paragraph is a bit ahead of you, or my explanations suck ;)
My recommendation is to check how the major scale works and how chords are constructed so that you can relate the minor pentatonic to it and see how it fits all together. I believe Justin did some lessons that matter to. Or you could get his 'Practical Music Theory' eBook which should cover it and which seems to be highly recommended around here.

Hope I could help a bit!
Nephente
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: asylum on January 14, 2010, 01:11:29 pm
Quote
The funny thing is, that the minor pentatonic is heavily used in Blues, where it is played over a MAJOR chord progression.

well yes but its also used over minor chord progression.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: nephente on January 14, 2010, 03:55:59 pm
Yeah, sure it is. I think i wrote that before. I didn't mean the minor pent. is used exclusively over major progressions.

Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: AICD99 on January 18, 2010, 11:52:15 pm
Hey thanks for solidifying that for me. So you change scale position/shape in order to play higer/lower or to make something easier to play? so a reason to move from 1st position Am Pent to the 2nd position would be for ease of play for say bending a specific note, needing to play a little higher, or both? I havne all 5 positions memorized I just don't know what or how to use them. I see the positions in some tableture but sometimes there are extra notes thrown in. It just seems that I have all the info I need to know I just haven't connected it all. ???
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: AICD99 on January 18, 2010, 11:57:03 pm
also, can I play the 2nd position of the Am Pent at the 5th fret exactly where the 1st position was?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: asylum on January 21, 2010, 07:43:43 pm
no if you play second pos of the minor pent starting at the 5th fret you are then playing in the key of F# minor, just look at position 2 and see where the root note is, its on the D string, so if you start out at the 5 fret of the E string (thickest string) you will see that the root note is on the F# note on the D string.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: SteveW on February 05, 2010, 03:52:19 pm
I’m brand new to the guitar and I guess I’m trying to do 3 things at once, play notes, chords, scales etc to learn the positions (and toughen up my finger tips), learn about music theory (what’s a pentatonic scale, what’s a perfect fifth and why is it so called, etc) and lastly to try and play tunes, licks, riffs, etc. I wonder if anyone can clarify for me the music theory of pentatonic scales. In his video Justin shows an Am Pentatonic being ACDEG but then confuses me by saying that the degrees in the Minor Pentatonic are the first degree, the flat third, the fourth, the fifth, the flat seven and then the octave again. So, here’s my confusion. It seems that is only Cm Pentatonic that has flats in the 2nd and 5th notes and the Notes Circle has no Cb so how can the 2nd note of the Am Pentatonic be a 3rd flat. I think I’m confusing notes and harmonics but am not sure as to why or how?! ???
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Bootstrap on February 05, 2010, 11:09:55 pm
Hi Steve W and welcome.

I suspect you would benefit from learning about the Major Scale and how it works as everything reall stems from it.

The major scale of any key always follows the same formula R, T, T, S, T, T, T, S where R is the root, T is a full tone (or 2 frets on your guitar) and S is a semitone (or one fret).

Before I go on you mentioned that the is no Cb - there is but we usually call it the note B - there is only a semitone between B & C and E & F all other notes are a full tone apart.

So using the full A major scale and following the above formula the notes be A, B, C# (because of the semitone gap between B&C a full tone jump takes you to C#) D, E, F#, G#.

So that is the A Major Scale - to convert it to a full Minor Scale we flatten the 3rd, 6th & 7th degree of the Major Scale so the notes you would end up with would be A, B, C, D, E, F, G (which incidentally looks just like the C Major Scale just starting in a different spot and this is known as the Relative Major to the A Minor scale).

The Minor Pentatonic only uses 5 notes from the full Minor Scale the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, & 7th which is A, C, D, E, G.

Because we relate everything back to the Major Scale Justin describes the A Minor Pentatonic as the 1, b3, 4, 5, b7 of the A Major scale - which as you can see from the above, it is.

I hope I haven't confused you further - feel free to clarify. You might also want to consider buying Justin's Reall Useful Guitar Stuff - Practical Music Theory e-book.

Good luck with it.

Cheers, Bootstrap
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Bootstrap on February 05, 2010, 11:39:05 pm
Sorry didn't answer your Perfect 5th question - firstly because it is neither a minor or a major interval - the naming of these intervals has to do their relationship with the root note and the harmonic nature of the way it interacts with the root.

Without going into too much confusing math or music theory (some of which I don't quite get myself yet) but if you were to look at it in frequency terms the 5th is exactly halfway between the root & the octave eg an A note @ 440hz would have an octave @ 880hz and the 5th (in this case an E note) @ 660hz and harmonically this is really cool. It gives what is known as "consonance" between the notes. 

If you want to drive yourself mad start to check out the ratios of the the different degrees of scale to the root... But learn about the Major Scale first!

But for now just take it that both the 4th and 5th are perfect intervals NB the inversion of each is always the other - eg A to E is a perfect 5th and E back to A is a perfect 4th. Perfect :)

Cheers, Boots
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Bootstrap on February 06, 2010, 12:29:12 am
Sorry can't edit from mobile....

But one thing that might clarify understanding of the perfect intervals is this.

The ratio of the perfect 5th to the root is 3:2 (ie 1.5 to 1 - which you can see clearly in the 440hz to 660hz exmaple above) and the ratio of the perfect 4th to the root is 4:3.

Now think about the ratio's of how we like to see things - 3:2 is the same as 6:4 - which is a very common photo size - 3:2 is roughly A4 paper. 4:3 is a common aspect ratio for TV's or light projectors.

We see things in these ratio's as "perfect". Incidentally a popular way to increase something in size is to double it ie every aspect is twice the size of the original - a perfect replication if you will only double the size.

Well here is the scoop - we like to hear things at these ratio's too hence the perfect 4, the perfect 5th & the perfect octave.

B :)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: SteveW on February 06, 2010, 08:47:36 am
Bootstrap,

Many thanks for this erudite response and bearing in mind that it'll take a day to inculcate through the grey matter and now I need to look at Major scales too, I think I'll get it sometime tomoz! The subject matter, to me anyway, is really interesting but I've ignored it all my life - just enjoyed listening to Gilmour, Clapton, Hendrix, The Edge, etc without any classical understanding. The more I understand the more I realise I don't know. It's a long road but every step is progress!

However, on the Perfect Fifth issue, I think it is called "perfect" because mathematically the frequency difference in cents (1/100 of a semitone) is near enough "bang on" the actual notes in terms of sound listening quality of an instrument, whereas most other harmonics have a built in error that we can hear but ignore as they are more than 50 cents out. The fifth is different and very close so it's perfect. Justin points to Wikipedia which helped me (if one doesn't dig too deep into advanced maths).

Thanks again.

Steve
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: cora on February 18, 2010, 10:26:33 pm
ouhhhh la la. ???
I am getting crazy at this scale lesson.
I have hew questions, I feel stupid learning that as I don't really understand  :-\
So I am trying to learn the first position.
Justin explain that if you look the root note you know the note of the scale?
But how do you know which one is the root note ( if you don't have the graphic)? And why E shape for the fist one?
Then I would like to know how long it took you guys to play this scale properly, because I just have this feeling that my hand ( to be precisise me little finger) is not working at all for this exercise.
Hope you'll understand my questions and it doesn't sound too stupid  :-[
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on February 19, 2010, 06:40:32 am
ouhhhh la la. ???
I am getting crazy at this scale lesson.
slowly slowly catchy monkey  :)


So I am trying to learn the first position.
Justin explain that if you look the root note you know the note of the scale?
But how do you know which one is the root note ( if you don't have the graphic)? And why E shape for the fist one?
1st position
root note = 1st note you play with 1 st finger on thick e string

why don't you have the graphic?
it's here
http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BL-012-BluesScales.php

Then I would like to know how long it took you guys to play this scale properly, because I just have this feeling that my hand ( to be precisise me little finger) is not working at all for this exercise.
Everyone is / will be different

these are good exercises to stretch and strengthen your fingers to you can play scales (and everything) better
http://www.justinguitar.com/en/TE-000-Technique.php

especially for your curent situation this one (about half way down that page)
http://www.justinguitar.com/en/TE-001-FingerGym.php


Hope you'll understand my questions and it doesn't sound too stupid  :-[

you are not alone !!   ;D
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Scarletcreek on February 19, 2010, 05:41:46 pm
Hey, i got a question about the patterns. If I understood correctly, than E shape root note will always be on lowest E string?
If that's the case, than D shape pattern lowest root note will always be on D string? If not, why did'nt Justin use the root note on E string 5th fret?
Maybe I just should stick to the pattern graphics and always search for root notes on strings where R is indicated first? I'm confused.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on February 19, 2010, 09:00:05 pm
...Maybe I just should stick to the pattern graphics and always search for root notes on strings where R is indicated first? I'm confused.

yes

you're getting confused
follow the graphic and the vid lessons
 :)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Tomps on February 26, 2010, 04:32:20 pm
Hi!

I have one question. Is it always that if the song is in the key of X I should play my scales from the key of X? Just asking cause for example in Highway to Hell by AC/DC Angus Young plays the solo from A with minor pentatonic, but according to this: http://randscullard.com/CircleOfFifths/ the song is in the key of D.
How come he plays the solo from A in a song key of D? Can I play solos in the key of Y even if the song is in the key of X?

-Tomps
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale [SOLVED]
Post by: Galacto on February 28, 2010, 07:43:06 pm
Hi!
I'm a self learned guitarist from sweden whos been playing guitar for 15 years. But have never cared to learn and understand scales and notes or stuff like that, until now.
So I'm about to learn playing guitar again  :)

Now my first question on this forum is about the pentatonic scale.

On the site I was reading about the scale shapes and the first position is E-shape.And the first note you plays names the scale. So is the E-shape played starting at the 12:th fret?

The second position is D-shape but where is the first note played?
and so on.....Please explain this to me so I can keep learning!!

hmmm....nevermind...just figured it out! 8)
Thanx
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Bootstrap on February 28, 2010, 10:08:24 pm
Hi Galacto,

The "E-shape" refers to the pattern that is built around E-shape barre chords - sometimes referred to as position 1 - the sweet thing is if you learn the pattern you can play the very same pattern commencing at any point up or down the fretboard.

So if you were to commence the pattern on the 5th fret of the 6th string you would be playing in A - if you moved that down to the 8th fret you would be playing in C - commence on the 10th fret you are playing in D.

The way Justin teaches this scale is for you ultimately to learn 5 patterns that are built around replicable open chord shapes played as barre chords up the neck ie C, A, G, E, D - collectively known as the CAGED system.

Hope that makes some sense to you.

Welcome to the orum and enjoy.

Cheers, Boots
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Mkkl on March 31, 2010, 07:02:40 pm
I have (a) question(s) about improvising.
I just started out with scales and stuff and I have got the Minor Pentatonic in position one fully. But I'm kinda tired of practicing already and I have to do all the other positions to. So I tried using only the notes in MinPent and listening to the song and finding a bassnote which matches the sound of the song, and I could do quite something with that. (More than I thought)
But this is not really the concept of improvising I think... I know you have to know in which key the song is. But I'm not really sure how to do it, and I am wondering things like, does a song change in key (I think so) how often in general. How to make a good change of the key in which your soloing, so from A MinPent to lets say G MinPent. Can I find it somewhere here on the site. Or could someone answer the question on the forum or send me a useful link?

Thanks already!

Michiel.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on April 02, 2010, 01:02:45 pm
Hi!

I have one question. Is it always that if the song is in the key of X I should play my scales from the key of X? Just asking cause for example in Highway to Hell by AC/DC Angus Young plays the solo from A with minor pentatonic, but according to this: http://randscullard.com/CircleOfFifths/ the song is in the key of D.
How come he plays the solo from A in a song key of D? Can I play solos in the key of Y even if the song is in the key of X?

-Tomps

I saw this question ages ago and was waiting for a theorist to answer.
Since then I've studied a little theory and am going to attempt an explanation (that may need adding to or correcting).

 :)

1st

I think that Highway To Hell should be looked at as in the key of A.  The verse contains A, D/F#, G and E.  The chorus takes out the E chord and plays the A, D and G chords in a slightly different order / pattern.  I understand why you looked at the circle of fifths – this seems to be a classic three chord rock ‘n’ roll / 12 bar progression.  The circle of fifths suggests that D = I chord, G = chord IV and A = chord V respectively.  However, I would suggest that the ‘tonal centre’ for this chord progression is the A chord.  Everything starts on it and resolves to it.

2nd

Angus Young solos using both the A minor pentatonic and A major pentatonic scales in this song.  
Here is the A major scale, and those two pentatonic scales:

A major                A  B  C#  D  E  F#  G#  A
                       1  2  3   4  5  6  7   8

A minor pentatonic     A     C   D  E      G
                       1     b3  4  5      b7

A major pentatonic     A  B  C#     E  F#
                       1  2  3      5  6



Here are the chords for the chorus:
A major                A     C#     E  
G major                G     B      D  
D major                D     F#     A

So, selecting from the two A pentatonic scales you have the notes:
A  B  C  C#  D  E  F#  G


These are played against the chord notes:
A  B  C  C#  D  E  F#  G

Do you notice the similarity?


3rd

Lets run with your idea that the song is in the key of D and do a similar analysis.

D major                D  E  F#  G  A  B  C#  D
                       1  2  3   4  5  6   7   8

D minor pentatonic     D     F   G  A     C
                       1     b3  4  5     b7

D major pentatonic     D  E  F#     A  B
                       1  2  3      5  6

So, selecting from the two D pentatonic scales you have the notes:
D  E  F  F#  G  A  B  C

These are played against the chord notes (re-arranged to start from D):
D  E  F#  G  A   B  C  C#

These are not a perect match…. Does that mean you couldn’t shouldn’t use these scales?
How will that F note in the D minor pentatonic sound if you play it over the progression that has no F in any of the chords?
What will the C note sound like against the A chord that carries a C# note?

Play around – see what you get.
If it sounds good it is good.

For further explorations of this try some of Justin’s lessons on Practical Music Theory (downloadable e-book … highly recommended) and Modes.
Also, this thread might give insight:
http://www.justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=20950.0;topicseen.

And try reading some other threads discussing keys, scales and modes.  

I hope that helps.

I hope someone can fill in any detail I left out or (worse) made mistakes with (I’m still a novice at this theory business!).
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: LeRoiLightning on April 14, 2010, 05:12:35 am
In the lessons, I find the finger numbering really confusing. For example, we have 5 digits on our hand but the lessons have the pointing finger as 1. I think it'd be easier to read if the thumb was 1 and the pinky was 5.

Mind you, I also find the chord charts difficult to read (or translate to the guitar) because they're vertical. I'd find it easier if they were rotated 90 degrees to the left - to match how most of us actually play chords on a guitar - ie it would suit the majority of players (right-handers) and, for printed copies, left-handers could just turn the paper around. Sigh, sometimes it takes a newbie to think of these things.  ::)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on April 14, 2010, 06:36:44 am
In the lessons, I find the finger numbering really confusing. For example, we have 5 digits on our hand but the lessons have the pointing finger as 1. I think it'd be easier to read if the thumb was 1 and the pinky was 5.

the numbers refer to the fretting hand ... the thumb is not used to fret the guitar strings ... you only use your four fingers for that

Mind you, I also find the chord charts difficult to read (or translate to the guitar) because they're vertical. I'd find it easier if they were rotated 90 degrees to the left - to match how most of us actually play chords on a guitar - ie it would suit the majority of players (right-handers) and, for printed copies, left-handers could just turn the paper around. Sigh, sometimes it takes a newbie to think of these things.  ::)

just this ... or use pencil and paper and draw your own up ... or use this great website tool:
http://www.studybass.com/tools/chord-scale-note-printer/
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Steve St.Laurent on May 23, 2010, 07:26:14 am
They are being named after the major chord that would sit over those root notes - look at those root notes, if they are A notes to make A major chords you would form the shapes as given.

Position 1 - E shape
Imagine an A major barre chord at fret 5

Position 2 - D shape
Imagine an A major chord in the D shape at frets 9  and 10 (with first finger holding bass note A on fourth string at fret 7)

Position 3 - C shape
Imagine an A major chord in the C shape with either barre or capo on fret 10

Position 4 - A shape
Imagine an A major chord in the standard open position or at fret 14 with barre or capo on fret 12

Position 5 - G shape
Imagine an A major chord played in the same way as an open G chord with barre or capo on fret 2 (or barre or capo on fret 14)

Hope this helps


I'm trying to wrap my brain around this and can't seem to grasp it.  Position 1 - do you mean A Minor chord at the 5th fret?  I can see a 6th string root E shape minor barre chord at the 5th fret there but a major doesn't make sense to me.  All the other positions don't make any sense to me at all - what do you mean by an A major chord in the D shape at frets 9 & 10 (with first finger holding bass note at fret 7 4th string)?  Could you explain each finger position because I'm just not able to grasp that.  Maybe I can figure the others out once I understand that.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on May 23, 2010, 07:38:16 am
Steve

the caged system is built on major patterns/chords

the minor pentatonic is minor based ... so a 3rd in a major becomed a flattened 3rd

see if this post helps

http://www.justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=13145.0

Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Bootstrap on May 23, 2010, 11:32:04 am
Steve, initially I found it easier to just look for the root notes - for example in the key of A wherever you can find the note A on the 6th, 5th & 4th string you can play any of the patterns Justin shows using the CAGED system for the Major Scale with a root note on that string - to play the Minor Pentatonic you can either learn the specific patterns or suss it out from the Major Scale patterns by playing 1, b3, 4, 5, b7

Over time as your knowledge of barre shapes evolves and your knowledge of notes on the fretboard increases, you will if you are vigilant start to see the shapes @Close is talking about and you will see the chord tones appearing in the familiar E, A, C, G & D shape no matter what the chord is.

Finally - if you have a squiz into the circle of fifths you will start to see the relationship between the Major Scale and the Minor Scale - once you understand this bit it starts to get a whole lot less scary as you realise there aren't a gazillion things you have to learn because to quote Dirk Gently there actually is a fundamental interconnectedness of all things  :)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Steve St.Laurent on May 24, 2010, 04:19:17 am
I understand the root notes and how the patterns work - that isn't a problem.  What I'm having a hard time with is understanding why pattern 1 minor pentatonic is called an E shape, pattern 2 minor pentatonic D shape, etc.  close2u's explanation said to picture a MAJOR barre chord and see where it's in pattern 1.  I don't see that at all.  Here's the diagram:

(http://justinguitar.com/images/SC_images/Scale_MinPent-1.gif)

I don't see an E shape MAJOR barre chord (which it would have to be to be an 5 at the 5th fret right?) in there - the 3rd finger on the 3rd string would have be be up one fret.  I DO see an E shape MINOR barre chord in there which would make sense since this is a minor pentatonic scale.  

Pattern 2 I can see a D minor open chord shape in there

Pattern 3 I haven't learned a C minor chord shape (I'm just finishing up the beginners course) but I worked one out on the chord worksheet and I can see a C minor in there

Pattern 4 I can see an A minor open chord shape in there

Pattern 5 I haven't learned a G minor chord shape but I worked one out on the chord worksheet and I can see a G minor in there

Here's what I see:

(http://motosportsdesign.com/stevest/minorpent1.jpg)
(http://motosportsdesign.com/stevest/minorpent2.jpg)
(http://motosportsdesign.com/stevest/minorpent3.jpg)
(http://motosportsdesign.com/stevest/minorpent4.jpg)
(http://motosportsdesign.com/stevest/minorpent5.jpg)

Does that make sense?  If so my confusion came in that close2u's explanation mentioned major chords everywhere.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on May 24, 2010, 07:07:06 am
...
(http://justinguitar.com/images/SC_images/Scale_MinPent-1.gif)

I don't see an E shape MAJOR barre chordsee a G minor in there...


it's there take away the notes labelled 4 and the g string note labelled 3
what is now needed to make a major chord shape?
and that note on the g string would be the 3rd of the  major scale being introduced - in the diagram now you have a flat 3rd in the barre

re-read the thread I linked in my last post
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Steve St.Laurent on May 24, 2010, 07:25:45 am
I've got it now but at least for me it seems easier to just see the minor chord in the shape rather than adding a note that isn't there to make up the major chord.  Thanks for the explanation - I wouldn't have worked it out without it.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on May 24, 2010, 08:09:29 am
... it seems easier to just see the minor chord in the shape rather than adding a note that isn't there to make up the major chord.  ...

I know what you mean but ....

everything is derived from the major scale ...

have you got RUGS ... really useful guitar stuff ... a great buy from Justin if you want to understand this stuff
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Steve St.Laurent on May 24, 2010, 08:17:37 am
I have part one and have almost finished it.  Will be working on part 2 once I have this one nailed down.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Mustafa on May 26, 2010, 05:16:17 am
Hello! Greetings my fellow guitar players!

I got this little problem with practicing scales.
I want to train my fingers and study scales the best way. I want to practice scale with max. effection. I want to get the full out of it. The time for scales Here is what I wrote down how I think I should practice and how I see it. :)

Lets take the pentatonic scales. The point is first to learn the shapes by hear so I can see it in my minds eye, right?
1. I will take one shape in a day and practice it. I will do the finger flappings and the little movements first. Then I'll use the BPA to work my speed up gradually to my max. or the level where I can play comfortably. Thats just playing the scale up and down.
2. Then maybe I use the same speed I got and play the scale up and down using random direction changes and use longer/shorter note values.
3.Then I'll play in intervals. Each day with 2 different intervals? Lets say in 3rds. And all the other intervals the next days. This is good for my fingers and trains the ear aswell.
4. Then I'll play four notes in a line aka 1-2-3-4 pattern. This is very good for my fingers.
5. Then what? I know I got something here but is it good enough or am I missing something? Will I get better at the guitar by just doing this?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: KimUtley on July 05, 2010, 05:25:22 am
Regarding the G Shape minor pentatonic scale. It appears to me that there is some finger crunching going on between the 1st and 4th fingers on the 1, 2, 5 and 6 strings. I noted that an alternative is to use fingers 1 and 3 for the 1, 2, 5 and 6 strings, however I'm curious why that would not be the recommended 'style'. Is there some kind of inherent flaw using this over the recommended method?

Also, I noticed in the major scales the method of using the ring (4th) finger to ease transitions in a couple of the shapes. Why is is not recommended on some (at least one) of the minor pentatonic shapes such as the C shape on string 3 (when descending, using the 4th finger, instead of 3rd?


Thanks for any tips in advance,

Kim
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: reeve sinclair on August 02, 2010, 02:22:09 pm
What does justin mean by " to use scales"?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Moriador on August 08, 2010, 06:38:38 pm
Hey all,

Is there not a mistake on the pictures? Is not the min pent 4 the D shape ?

Thx
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: XamTheOne on August 08, 2010, 08:24:19 pm
Hey all,

Is there not a mistake on the pictures? Is not the min pent 4 the D shape ?

Thx

It's the A shape.  Try practicing it in open position, with the (1) being open strings, it will make sense.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Moriador on August 08, 2010, 10:21:02 pm
Hello Xam,

thx for your answer, but what (1) are you talking about? Open positions, like open strings notes?

I mean I do not see a D shape in the 2nd figure but more in the 4th one .

Cheers
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: XamTheOne on August 08, 2010, 11:29:45 pm
Hello Xam,

thx for your answer, but what (1) are you talking about? Open positions, like open strings notes?

I mean I do not see a D shape in the 2nd figure but more in the 4th one .

Cheers

Sorry, I meant the dots labeled (1) on the picture, the number indicates the fingering.  Try to imagine the nut where the (1) dots are .  And yes I'm talking open strings.

Maybe the reason you see a D shape is because you're thinking about D major with the little triangle.  But that doesn't fit, since the root note isn't 2 frets behind.  If you try to overlay a D minor shape, it won't fit either, whereas a A minor shape will.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Moriador on August 09, 2010, 08:06:30 am
Hey,

1°) OK so I now see the Aminor shape. So on position 1 we see a Esus4, but what about positions 2,3, 5 ? Do we have to imagine that the nut is where the first note (first one from the real nut) is?

2°) So what do I do with open strings? I play open strings? Which open strings should I play and can't I play the note indicated buy justin? Damn my questions look like a 5 year old child... !!

3°) While I am at it... Are the 5 positions playable anywhere on the fretboard? Or does the position 1 start on the 6thstring 2nd fret exclusively, the position 2 start on the 6th string 3rd fret only ...etc ??

PS : Sorry for the 3 questions in a row... I am really confused with these scales positions and do not know where they are applicable .

Cheers
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: XamTheOne on August 09, 2010, 08:46:39 pm
Hey,

1°) OK so I now see the Aminor shape. So on position 1 we see a Esus4, but what about positions 2,3, 5 ? Do we have to imagine that the nut is where the first note (first one from the real nut) is?

2°) So what do I do with open strings? I play open strings? Which open strings should I play and can't I play the note indicated buy justin? Damn my questions look like a 5 year old child... !!

3°) While I am at it... Are the 5 positions playable anywhere on the fretboard? Or does the position 1 start on the 6thstring 2nd fret exclusively, the position 2 start on the 6th string 3rd fret only ...etc ??

PS : Sorry for the 3 questions in a row... I am really confused with these scales positions and do not know where they are applicable .

Cheers


People here aren't afraid of questions ;)

1°) If you want to see chords inside of scale shapes, you can imagine the nut where the first note is.  You'll see that several chords fit into a scale.  But that's not the real point.  I think you should think the other way, and ask yourself which scale fits a particular chord.  It's a little unnecessary when you just want to learn the scale.  You should practice it latter, and do it just by ear.

2°) Since the all the notes on the diagram are part of the scale, moving everything to the nut means that you do play open strings. Let me demonstrate.

e 0 3
b 0 3
g 0 2
D 0 2
A 0 2
E 0 3

Play it from the lowest to the highest note and then back to the lowest note. That's E minor Pentatonic.

3°) This might be the source of your confusion.  The diagram is not supposed to represent a particular part of the neck, so it's not the second fret or third fret only.  It's any fret, anywhere on the neck.  It all depends on what key you're playing in.  If you play in A, you can use position 1 at the fifth fret, or position 2 at the 7th fret, etc. because that's where the root note falls.

I hope it's clear that each note must be played individually and separately.  Scales are used to play melodies, and positions are made to memorize ways of going from one note to another.  At least that's how I see it.  There are many other ways of playing a scale, a common way is sliding from a position to another.

Always a pleasure to help ;)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Moriador on August 10, 2010, 02:26:43 pm
Hey Xam,

Thanks a lot for your explanation. A great one I have to say. I do understand more things now.

Just to be sure, you say if I play the A min pent scale position 2, I will have to play on the 7th fret. You mean the 7th fret on the 5th string is that it ?  So I will play:


E 8
E 10
A 7
A10
D 7 (root note)
D 10
G 7
G 9
B 8
B 10
e 8
e 10

Cheers !
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: XamTheOne on August 10, 2010, 08:07:41 pm
Hey Xam,

Thanks a lot for your explanation. A great one I have to say. I do understand more things now.

Just to be sure, you say if I play the A min pent scale position 2, I will have to play on the 7th fret. You mean the 7th fret on the 5th string is that it ?  So I will play:


E 8
E 10
A 7
A10
D 7 (root note)
D 10
G 7
G 9
B 8
B 10
e 8
e 10

Cheers !
Yup Moriador, you got it!  (Tu serais pas Français par hasard?/You wouldn't happen to be French by any chance?)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Moriador on August 11, 2010, 09:55:45 am
Si :) Comment tu as deviné?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: XamTheOne on August 11, 2010, 12:42:42 pm
Si :) Comment tu as deviné?

Je sais pas, une façon de parler peut-être ^^ à un moment tu as dit "applicable", bien que c'est de l'anglais correct, je crois qu'on utilise plus souvent "appliable" :)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Moriador on August 11, 2010, 03:30:09 pm
Hehehe :)

En fait on dit bien les deux en anglais avec une préférence pour applicable généralement. Mais de facon c'est encore un mot que les british/ricains ont piqué au Francais (vieux francais plus précisément:) ). Donc les deux c cool :)

Bon jte sors pas ma science non plus, mais les langues étrangères c'est mon domaine donc bon :)

D'ailleurs tu as aussi un bon niveau d'anglais je dirais pour faire des explications comme tu fais!

Tu es d'ou ?

C'est bien aussi je pourrai venir te poser des questions en francais !! C'est ptet plus simple pour apprendre ce bordel qu'est les gammes. Bien que je sois maintenant habitué au systeme de notation anglais.. humm.

A+
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: XamTheOne on August 11, 2010, 06:30:18 pm
Oui je me suis rendu compte de ma connerie après l'avoir écrite :)

Je suis à coté de Lille, je suis français par mon père et canadien par ma mère.  Mais je pratique trop peu l'anglais à mon goût :)

Ici, vaut mieux parler en anglais comme ça tout le monde comprend, après si t'es vraiment dans les choux je t'enverrais un MP en fr, et tu réponds sur le forum comme ça tout le monde peut profiter de la discution.  Pour une fois que je squatte un forum ...  :D
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Moriador on August 12, 2010, 04:59:20 pm
No worries :) Sorry for people who do not understand french. This won't happen again. Or you could also try to learn French ;)

Keep in touch Xam
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: patstrummer on August 15, 2010, 12:09:40 am
Hi justin

Big fan of your lessons and material - I have even bought some stuff!! :) but I think there are some bits that need joining up.

Isn't there a "disconnect" between lesson Sc-001 major scales and sc-002 minor pentatonic scales?

In Sc-001 you take us through how major scale shapes can be identified and named by the major chord shapes that they contain.

So in Sc-001 position 1, E shape is called an E shape because, with the shape at the open position (ie imagining the nut at the middle fret line on the diagram ie 4th fret from the top) the red chord tones make an E major chord. And so on with all the position/shapes.

But in Sc-002 the shape "Min Pent 1" is described as "position 1 E shape" ; surely it isn't. Its a G shape.

Its the position 5, G shape from Sc-002 ie a major scale shape with the following changes to make it a minor pentatonic scale;

1. two tones are dropped from the 7 tone major scale to make it a 5 tone pentatonic (the 4th and the 7th )
2. and the natural minor is just a major scale with the root starting 3 semitones below the root of the major scale (on the 6th degree) so the root from the major shape is just slipped back three semitones to make it a minor scale root position.

So isn't it the case that

Min pent 1 is not position 1 E shape but position 5 G shape
min pent 2 is not position 2 D shape but position 1 E shape
Min pent 3 is not position 3 C shape but position 2 D shape
Min pent 4 is not position 4 A shape but  position 3 C shape
Min Pent 5 is not position 5 G shape but position 4 A shape
 where the letters refer to MAJOR chord shapes in the open position

I know that there are MINOR chord shapes in the MIN Pent scale shapes (eg you could say scale shape Min Pent 1 is position 1 Eminor shape but I don't believe thats how its been explained anywhere in the mnaterial.)
There are a lot of confused people on various threads relating to scales struggling with this and maybe some connecting up could help ?

You know 100 time more about the guitar and its music than I do and can I apologise in advance if this is covered somewhere in the vastness of your material :)

I trust that my comments are taken in the positive spirit with which I proffer them

All the best

Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on August 15, 2010, 08:34:33 am
Hello patstrummer, welcome to the forum, your issue comes up often ... read the posts on page 9 of this thread and see if you can make sense of it ...

Also look here ...

http://www.justinguitarcommunity.com/index.php?topic=13145.0
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Tomps on September 18, 2010, 03:55:25 pm
Hey,

I'm a little confused about these minor and major scales. Let's say that I have a song in the key of C/Am and I want to improvise over it with minor pentatonic scale. Because it's minor scale, should I use A Minor Pentatonic? But then again the basic blues Justin teaches is in A (major) and still use A Minor Pentatonic.
I have noticed that A Minor Pentatonic is like a simplified version of C Major Scale, and also noticed that it sounds good to play with either of them. I just need some explanation. Please.

Thx.

-Tomps
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on September 18, 2010, 04:59:21 pm
Hey,  I'm a little confused about these minor and major scales. Let's say that I have a song in the key of C/Am and I want to improvise over it with minor pentatonic scale. Because it's minor scale, should I use A Minor Pentatonic? But then again the basic blues Justin teaches is in A (major) and still use A Minor Pentatonic.
I have noticed that A Minor Pentatonic is like a simplified version of C Major Scale, and also noticed that it sounds good to play with either of them. I just need some explanation. Please.
Thx.
-Tomps

Hi Tomps ... see if this video helps ... it's a study piece by Geoff Whitehorn that I have somewhere ... the chords are C, Aminor, F, G ... the first part is solo using A minor pentatonic (C major pentatonic) and the second part is C minor pentatonic ... can you hear the difference between the major and minor pent? ... bright to bluesy

 :)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Tomps on September 18, 2010, 09:17:38 pm
Hi Tomps ... see if this video helps ... it's a study piece by Geoff Whitehorn that I have somewhere ... the chords are C, Aminor, F, G ... the first part is solo using A minor pentatonic (C major pentatonic) and the second part is C minor pentatonic ... can you hear the difference between the major and minor pent? ... bright to bluesy

 :)

What video? There's no link or anything  :o  :D

-Tomps
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on September 19, 2010, 10:26:52 am
ok, sorry

fixed

 :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av-OcprLxoI
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Blackadder on September 19, 2010, 02:24:55 pm
Hey Justin. I got quite big hands so everytime i play this scale i can reach all with my third finger with ease. I find that my third finger is way more accurate than my pinky... Can you use your third finger instead of your pinky in this exercise?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on September 19, 2010, 02:54:22 pm
yes, what ever finger suits you ...

ps

can you adjust your avatar pic size 80x80 or less

 :)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Tomps on September 19, 2010, 04:15:03 pm
close2u, thx for the vid. I think I understand know.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it like this: You can use both of them A Minor (C major) Pentatonic or C Minor pentatonic in the key of C/Am, difference is just that if I use the minor pentatonic of the Major (key C, use C minor pentatonic) I will get a bluesy sound. And if I use minor pentatonic of the Minor (key Am, use A minor pentatonic) It's like using a simplified major scale. Right?
At least that's how it sounds to my ear ;D.

-Tomps
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: LBro on May 20, 2011, 04:57:09 am
Ok,
I was thinking I was starting to understand this theory stuff and now I am not so sure. Here is my question(s).

I have or lay down a rythem backing track in say A. Now I want to play  in the Minor Pentatonic Scale over the top of it so I pick the root scale located at the 5th fret on the 6th string.

1. Am I ok to do that and will it all sound cool, no matter the cords? - I have tried it and most sounds decent... but it seems to depend on the actual cords used.... hum.. I must be off on my theory stuff.

2. Would I be better off to use the major scale in A and more of the notes would "fit" and "sound" better?

3. Or is it with the scale depending on the mood I want to impart with my riff? Meaning if I want to impart a happy molody I use major scales and if I want to impart and bit down sound I use the Minor Pentatonic?

4. Ok so here is a curve ball. Can I only use the Minor Penatonic scales over minor cords in the key of A for this example?

5. Is it that only the cords that have root notes contained in the scale that will alow them to "fit" when I play the scale over the top of them?

Yes I am seaching and a bit confused, that I am willing to admit, thus your answer may help to right a sailing ship that is listing.

Thanks for your help,

LB
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Jaroot on November 13, 2011, 02:48:35 pm
While having a chat in Ustream Justin showed us chords which are belong to minor pentatonic scale. Unfortunately it hadn't been recorded, and I have memorized just some of them. But the actual question is: Is pentatonic harmonizing the same way as the diatonic scales?

LBro
You have probably found your answers already, it was a long time since you've asked but:
1) Minor pent. works almost every situation, even over some major chords. If all chords in your backing track belong to the key of A, it will sound OK. But to sound really good, I guess you should think about every chord and play certain notes over them.
2) I think if you play over chords which are come from A major, you better use A major scale instead of minor pent. and it will sound totally different. Plus with additional notes you can create more tenshion and release. For me, minor pent. works great in minor key, and over dead major it sounds not so great.
3) Minor and major are completely different emotional qualities. The Major perceived as happy, bright, etc and the Minor perceived as sad and dark. It's about some intervals which determine tonality, i think. For example 3rd degree above the root is very important. But many rock riffs are neither major of minor because they consist of power chords (root and 5th) and don't have determinative notes. If you compose a real minor riff, you won't be able to use major 3rd while soloing over.
4) You can use one minor pent. scale over whole bunch of minor chords in a certain key. If some chords don't belong to one key, your scale will probably sound rubbish over them
5) Hmm, i guess you can use minor pent. scale over 7 chords of the diatonic minor, but I am not sure about II chord which is diminished though. Over VI chord in A minor key which is F major you can use A minor pent. scale in spite of the fact that F note can't be found in your A pent. scale. So the short answer to your question is "no".

I hope I am not misinforming you :D I hope Justin will answer too.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: jphils on November 14, 2011, 07:53:13 am
hi! First i want to commend Justin & d moderators of these forums for painstakingly taking out the tym 2 offer such detaild help...i hv a couple of questions though.. Firstly i have issues with finding the key of a song.i'm sorry if i'm askin this in the wrong forum...bt is ther any possible way i cud get help on this?
Again i heard frm someone that the key of a song can only be the major of that note wether the natural or sharp/flat note, never the minor or dim, aug etc...is this true?
Also i'd like to knw, does the minor pentatonic scale work for every kind of music, because i'm african and though i listen to western, i'd still like to apply this to home music but it doesnt seem to work.... I'm so nouveaux to all this, help pleassseee!!
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: LBro on November 14, 2011, 07:20:43 pm
Jaroot,
Hey - Thanks for the reply as that is a pretty good answer. I have not been into my Theory as much lately due to illness but what you say makes sense. Sadly my guitar playing is suffering as well in the advancement area. I am still trying to play every day when I feel up to it.

I knew there was a reason minor pentatonic fit over many things I just did not know why. The "off" notes were also a puzzle to me. I mean by ear you can learn by trial and error to avoid the bad notes over chords, but much better to understand the why of it all. You seem to have this one down and it makes sense to me.

LB
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Jaroot on November 14, 2011, 10:13:56 pm
I'm glad I helped. It's very useful to know intervals. Because scale is just a set of intervals. You know, minor pentatonic can be seen as natural minor without 2nd and 6th degrees above the root note. For example over classic minor chord progression in Am: Am, G, F you can use A minor pentatonic which is a simple way or you can use A natural minor with additional two notes (B and F), so you can create more interesting sound. For example landing on F note when it comes to F chord (classic example solo to Stairway to Heaven). By removing 2nd and 6th we no longer have any half-steps in the scale, so it's easy to create a strong melody. Plus, minor pentatonic over dominant chords = classic blues sound :)
I suggest you to watch this lesson: SC-014 • Relationships between notes and chords.

jphils
Not sure that I understand everything but:
You heard wrong. As far as I know, we have 12 keys (number of notes in our most common music system). Plus every key can be major or minor. For example F# major, F# minor, A major, B minor etc. Every key has a relative key, they share the same notes and chords. Example: C major and A minor, E minor and G major. So every major key has relative minor and and vice versa. You just start from different root note so you ear knows there the tonic center is. Check out Circle of fifths, it's pretty logical.

I don't think that minor pentatonic works for every kind of music, because it is regulated by western harmony rules. In some kind of music may be different system of tuning, intervals, rules or whatever.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Drubbing on February 23, 2012, 02:34:35 pm
I've got to ask: how long does it take to get it together with scales? I've been practising the minor pent for nearly a month now, and I still suck. Badly. I'm still on the first shape. I've not moved from there because I can't even get through that slowly without stuffing it up, I'm as poor now as I was 3 weeks ago.

I'm progressing ok with everything else, and starting on stage 3, chords and changes are all improving a lot. But the MP is just going nowhere. I keep picking the wrong strings that I'm supposed to be fretting, and that throws me off, and then I end up messing my fretting up and getting out of sequence.

What to do? It doesn't help my action is a little high, and when I've the capo on the 3rd fret (when practising one of the songs), then the MP is a little easier, but it's no fix to help me improve.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Bootstrap on February 23, 2012, 04:24:45 pm
Drubs - it isn't the minor pentatonic you are having trouble with - it is picking accuracy, and to a lesser extent fretting accuracy you are having trouble with.

This is normal for a beginner.

Can you truly touch type - ie not look at the keyboard and type accurately? How long did that take?

It's all about having a point of reference.

In typing (if you're doing it right) your fingers intuitively find the home keys A S D F & J K L - the F & J have the little bumps on them so you can feel them and not have to look for them. Once your "home", your fingers know where all the other keys are.

In guitar, some people can just start on a string and know where all the other strings are - mere mortals "anchor" the pinky of their picking hand on the pick guard for their point of reference.

Like most things on guitar - it takes time to become proficient.

One exercise I used to do was pick the open 6th string, then the 5th, back to 6, then to 4, back to 6, then to 3, - 6 2 6 1 and then reverse it.

One thing for certain - if you practice hard and get better at picking accuracy - learning other patterns will seem like a snap and you will wonder why learning position one took so long :)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on February 23, 2012, 08:52:55 pm
... I'm progressing ok with everything else, and starting on stage 3, chords and changes are all improving a lot..

As ever bootstrap gives good advice.
I have to ask if you are trying to run befor you can walk.
You're only on stage 3 ... is that of the beginner course?
If so, then you may need to rein in your ambitions a little and build up some pre-requisite skills first.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Drubbing on February 23, 2012, 11:45:23 pm
Thanks for the perspective fellas, yes I'm on the beginners course. I'll redouble my efforts. I might still get my guitar action sorted too, if I don't make progress after a while, it's definitely on the high side, but I've a cheaper guitar, so there may not be much wriggle room.

Boot, your analogy is bang on, I'll try your home key suggestion. Yes, I did learn to TT, back when I was a kid working for the postal service. But I've long since lost the 'touch'. I was trained on minimal, and then blind keyboards. Took 2-3 weeks of 8 hour days to reach the required standard for speed and accuracy. So 100+ hours. I'm nowhere near that.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Drubbing on February 25, 2012, 12:47:14 pm
One exercise I used to do was pick the open 6th string, then the 5th, back to 6, then to 4, back to 6, then to 3, - 6 2 6 1 and then reverse it.

One thing for certain - if you practice hard and get better at picking accuracy - learning other patterns will seem like a snap and you will wonder why learning position one took so long :)

Noted. A good point, that never occurred to me.

What I'm trying is 2 strings scales at a time, E, A, back to E. I'm trying to dial in my 'home keys'. Then adding in D as I get in a groove, then G etc. This is helping, but it's picking on the way up I tend to stuff up, so I should probably do the reverse from the bottom too. It'll take time.

Any other picking tips/drills to mix up the practise?

I'm pretty buzzy on the big E with the pinky, hopefully practise will fix that too.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Bootstrap on February 25, 2012, 01:35:40 pm
Drubs - all of Justin's technique exercises will help.

At stage 3 - I think you should just really concentrate on your chords with particular attention to hitting the right string for the bass note ie the E A & D strings as appropriate for respective chords - that in itself will start to build your spacial awareness.

When you have a bit more time on your chops - one other thing I became mildly obsessed with for just this purpose was playing "Asturias" - it was written for piano, and is often played finger style on a classical guitar up around the 9th fret - I played it with a pick using sheet music on my steel string and interpreted the notes from the open position.

I just had a quick squiz and this tab (page 9) is close(ish) to what I played - it is a real mongrel, but a few weeks at it and I guarantee your picking accuracy will improve - I might even try and find my old sheet music and have a crack myself :) much more fun than doing mindless exercises.

http://epaperpress.com/tabs/download/tab.pdf

If you want to know what it sounds like, just do a search on You Tube :)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Drubbing on March 08, 2012, 01:54:37 pm
So after some regular practice, I'm getting there. A metronome check tells me I'm going at about 110+ bpm with few mistakes.

So I was thinking of adding the 2nd shape, but a revisit of the lesson shows that you should know how to *use* the first before moving on. Stage 3 doesn't contain any lessons/songs that require penta picking, apart from the Edwyn Collins mini lick, which I've been doing.

Do later lessons/stages have penta shape 1 stuff? If not, not sure I should stay with it when I could use my time for something else. Sure it helps with picking and getting a feel for finding your strings, but if it doesn't get any actual use til way later, doesn't seem like it's worth being a regular in my routine.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Dr Winterbourne on March 08, 2012, 04:12:37 pm
If you want to throw a solo into any of your songs, or you want to jam with your mates it will come in handy.

You really want to be very comfortable with it, I think, before moving on.

Keep going with the metronome. Getting it perfect now is so important.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on March 08, 2012, 05:57:14 pm
So after some regular practice, I'm getting there. A metronome check tells me I'm going at about 110+ bpm with few mistakes.

So I was thinking of adding the 2nd shape, but a revisit of the lesson shows that you should know how to *use* the first before moving on. Stage 3 doesn't contain any lessons/songs that require penta picking, apart from the Edwyn Collins mini lick, which I've been doing.

Do later lessons/stages have penta shape 1 stuff?

Try the Blues Lead lessons:

http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BL-000-Blues.php
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Drubbing on March 09, 2012, 01:14:15 am
K. Thanks.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: TB-AV on March 09, 2012, 02:01:55 am
I don't know what you mean about about going back and forth on the E and A then adding D but something sounds fishy about that and you could be ingraining a bad habit. your hand won't go up and down ( floor to ceiling ) and "learn it's place per string" if you stay on the bass strings only.

Justin's scales are made to play start to finish for a reason. Specific focus is one thing to perfect a lick or whatever but don't learn two strings and ignore the rest. If you are going to segregate the neck, do it by 4 to 6 fret areas nut to bridge.. not string pairs.

do string pairs or better single strings for nut to bridge scales.

Then again I don't know what you mean so maybe just ignore this.

Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Drubbing on March 09, 2012, 03:40:50 am
I don't know what you mean about about going back and forth on the E and A then adding D but something sounds fishy about that and you could be ingraining a bad habit. your hand won't go up and down ( floor to ceiling ) and "learn it's place per string" if you stay on the bass strings only.

I'm not ignoring any, I'm doing an excercise to help me pick better.

Focusing on 2 strings up and down at a time was just a way of helping with my accuracy and rhythm - to help with the full scale. I was doing 'scales' of EAEAEA, then when in a groove, EADEAD, adding in each subsequent string till I was doing the whole scale (shape 1). That, or just the extra practice has worked, as I'm a lot quicker and cleaner. Still needs work though.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: TB-AV on March 09, 2012, 04:12:04 am
Got it.

You can try string skipping too if your accuracy is off. EDBAGE type thing. Just go steady. It will help with "pick drag" for lack of a term. the problem of inaccurately moving the pick/hand from string to string.

string skipping makes you raise the pick, over the string, then down to next string. It's exaggerated at first but then get's lower and smoother. It helps prevent "dragging the pick" into the side of the adjacent string. Sort of like not picking your feet up when you walk.

Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: bradt on February 16, 2013, 08:59:10 am
When I play the minor pentatonic scale (pattern 1), the pad of my hand between the thumb and forefinger stays in contact with the guitar. Is this something I should try to avoid? I've been trying, but it's really hard to do without putting my wrist at an awkward angle.

Also, should I be focusing on only touching the note that I am currently playing with my fret hand? I can mostly do that, but I have to really arch my fingers to get that to happen on the low strings because of the length of my little finger*.

Will all of this work itself out in time, or is it just something that I shouldn't even worry about?

*- Even completely straight, my little finger just reaches the low E string.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: misterg on February 16, 2013, 01:02:02 pm
Ok, taking your points out of order a little:
....should I be focusing on only touching the note that I am currently playing with my fret hand? I can mostly do that, but I have to really arch my fingers to get that to happen on the low strings ...

Yes, in a word. Ironically, when you can do this, you concentrate on deliberately muting adjacent strings, but you need to learn to do it 'clean' first, and just touch the note that you're playing.

Quote
When I play the minor pentatonic scale (pattern 1), the pad of my hand between the thumb and forefinger stays in contact with the guitar.....

...Even completely straight, my little finger just reaches the low E string.

I suspect that these two facts are related - it sound like you need to adjust your hand position so that it makes it easier for your little finger to reach the low E.

My 0.02p, anyway :)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: bradt on February 16, 2013, 07:39:56 pm
I suspect that these two facts are related - it sound like you need to adjust your hand position so that it makes it easier for your little finger to reach the low E.

My 0.02p, anyway :)

Do you have any advice for that? Or is it just one of those things that seems to work itself out over time?

I can't really think of many ways to adjust my hand position without the guitar "resting" on the part of my hand between the thumb and forefinger.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: misterg on February 16, 2013, 07:53:11 pm
I've no idea how you are holding the guitar, but try pointing the guitar neck up higher (so the headstock is level with your ear - roughly) then get your thumb on the back of the neck. This will mean your fingers can reach further and arch around better

Apologies for posting this video yet again, but it explains what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZxdreMiHcI

Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: shadowscott007 on February 16, 2013, 08:23:04 pm
Are you saying the bottom edge of the neck is touching your hand when you are trying to use your pinky on the 6th string?

That is not a horrible thing.  I realize in the beginner's lessons Justin says to imagine an electric wire at the bottom of the neck and to keep your hand away from it.  But he also mentioned that this was a temporary thing to help you form the chords correctly and eventually you wouldn't have to worry about it.

So, this isn't a chord thing andayne eventually just happened for you.

Shadow
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: bradt on February 17, 2013, 12:30:39 am
@misterg- I suppose it would make it tough to judge without seeing huh. That makes sense. Looking at the Pebber Brown video though, I don't think my wrist is "breaking" any more than his. Maybe I am just over thinking it.

@shadow- Yes, that is pretty much the thing. I don't think I am muting anything, but figure that if it isn't ideal, it may be easier to correct now than it will be a few months from now.

I tend to do it on the G chord sometimes too when I transition to it, and on Am if I am trying to put my thumb over to mute the 6th string (nothing I can do about that one).

Quote
So, this isn't a chord thing andayne eventually just happened for you.

I don't think I follow you here.


Thanks for your help guys. I may see if I can get some pictures later, but will have to dig out the camera.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: shadowscott007 on February 17, 2013, 12:49:00 am
Yeah fat fingered that bit.

In short, I don't think you have to worry about it.  You are not playing chords.  Keeping your palm away from the neck was a temporary beginner's thing to help you get the chords to ring true.  You are playing a scale.  You are playing the low E string.  So I don't think you care.  Pictures would help, but if I understand what you are saying you are fine.

Shadow
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: misterg on February 17, 2013, 01:10:31 am
Yes, that is pretty much the thing. I don't think I am muting anything, but figure that if it isn't ideal, it may be easier to correct now than it will be a few months from now.

I tend to do it on the G chord sometimes too when I transition to it, and on Am if I am trying to put my thumb over to mute the 6th string (nothing I can do about that one).

I wouldn't worry about chords - I thought the problem was reaching the low E with your little finger without touching adjacent strings when playing a scale? If so, it would help to get your thumb on the back of the neck, rather than the area between your thumb and fore-finger (if I have understood correctly!)

0.02p

Andy

Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: seppuku on June 29, 2013, 06:08:19 pm
Hi, first post! Hope it's in the right spot.

Been playing guitar for over 20 years, but have zero theory so trying to learn.

I've just read about the CAGED system and it makes sense, but when I move onto this minor pentatonic lesson I'm stumped.

I don't see the 'E' shape or all it's notes in the position 1 diagram? It looks more like the 'G' shape to be honest.

Am I being really dense?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: close2u on June 29, 2013, 07:14:47 pm
It is an E shape ... but think minor ... can you see an A minor barre chord shape within that pentatonic pattern?
CAGED is used a frame of reference for Major / minor etc.
So in that shape you have
e - 5
B - 5
G - 5
D - 7
A - 7
E - 5

A minor in the E-shape chord right?

:)


ps welcome
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: seppuku on June 29, 2013, 07:24:54 pm
Hi, thanks for the reply!

I suppose I can see an A minor in there, maybe that's where I'm getting confused. Do the positions modify themselves if you're in a minor key? So if you're playing a minor pentatonic, you use the minor versions of the CAGED shapes?

I can see the root notes are in the places that are consistent with the positions as learnt.

But I'm not sure how I would extrapolate the rest of the notes in the scale from that.

Is it just the A minor chord shape with all the 'duplicate' notes added in?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: shadowscott007 on July 03, 2013, 11:29:35 pm
So you are at the fifth fret  playing what I think of as box 1. 

So is you playing thinking hearing Am pentatonic your root is under index finger on the sixth string (as. well as two other spots).  Anyhoo since its an E shape Am chord  you'd say that was the E shape minor pentatonic.

But if you are in the same spot playing thinking hearing C maj pentatonic your root is under your pinky (and in two other spots in the pattern as well).   In this case it is a G shape C maj chord and you'd call it G shape major pentatonic.

So E shape minor pentatonic and G shape major pentatonic define the same collection of notes in a particular spot on the neck.

Works the same way for each of the five pentatonic shapes... Dm shape/E maj shape...

Shadow
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Snaz on November 07, 2013, 02:49:44 pm
Hello. I have pretty simple question. On the website Justin shows 5 positions. But on the web I also can see different 'counting' of positions. I always thought that Justin's position 1 is actually position 2. Justin's position 2 is 3 and so on. I asked my guitar teacher and he said, that my way of thinking is good. I know that is not quite important, but i want be sure. Can anyone make it clear to me?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: stitch101 on November 07, 2013, 05:08:58 pm
Think of the positions as the chords they are derived from and not as numbers. This will clear everything
up for you.

The CAGED system(what Justin teaches) comes from the shape of the 5 open chords and their minor
shapes.

Most people start with the E(Em) shape so they call it position 1. D is 2, C is 3 A is 4 and G is 5.
Here's the 5 minor shapes. Click on the image and it will go full size and is easier to read.
(http://modernelectricbluesguitarist2011.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/em-pentatonic-scale-5-pos.png)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Snaz on November 07, 2013, 06:20:40 pm
Firstly - Don't know if you didn't notice or what, but in the D Shape there are one note out from Penatotnic. I mean, in case of Emin[as in your example] it's F#[i know it is in natural scale and still fits].

Ok, so I understand, that numbers are meaningless and i should look for CAGED Shapes. It is still not clear for me[how this shapes exactly relates this pentatonic shapes], so CAGED system'll clarify it?

And by the way. This rule applies also in other scales?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: stitch101 on November 07, 2013, 07:35:41 pm
Quote
D Shape there are one note out from Penatotnic. I mean, in case of Emin[as in your example] it's F#

Nice catch I didn't notice that I just grabbed the chart of the net.

Quote
Ok, so I understand, that numbers are meaningless and i should look for CAGED Shapes. It is still not clear for me[how this shapes exactly relates this pentatonic shapes], so CAGED system'll clarify it?

Yes the Caged system will clear thing up for you. It is easier to see the shapes if you start with the Major
scale. I'll try and use the Em in the chart to explain it with out going into to much theory.(theory is not
my best subject)  ;)

If you look at the E shape but picture it at the nut and not the 12th fret. The top red dot is your root E
the notes in the Em chord are E B E G B E The notes of the Em pentatonic scale are E G A B D.

If you play an Em chord and look at the diagram you will see the 2 note you are fretting are B and E now
add the rest of the notes of the scale to the chord which are G and A.

Now play a Fm bare chord. What you have done is move the Em chord up one fret and have to use your
index finger for the nut. Same if you move up to a Gm barre This is why it's called and E shape You can do
the same thing with all the chord shapes in the CAGED. 

It's easier to explain using the major scale so here's Justin's lesson on it.  scroll down to the bottom
of the page where the diagrams are and you'll see how the shapes relate to the chords.


http://justinguitar.com/en/SC-001-TheMajorScale.php

Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: stitch101 on November 07, 2013, 10:43:35 pm
Minor and Major chords are triads (meaning 3 notes)
Pentatonic scales Major or Minor are 5 notes(Penta meaning 5)
Major,Minor and Modes have 7 notes.

Everything is derived from the major scale.
So you may want to read up on the major scale before you start the CAGED system.
C major is the easiest to understand.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Steve St.Laurent on March 09, 2014, 10:09:22 pm
So I'm starting to work on the other positions of the minor pentatonic.  I have the 1st position down and I also have the blues scale down (adds 1 note to the scale and with the 1st position it fits right in with Justin's suggested fingering).  I've laid out this diagram of the different positions which helps me to connect them after I've worked them out (I did this for the major scale as well - have all 5 positions of the major scale down).  Now since the blues scale just adds one note to the minor pentatonic I'd rather learn a fingering of the minor pentatonic that would incorporate the blues scale if I want to play it unless there's a good reason not to.  So I've changed Justin's suggested fingering slightly (one finger up or down) to allow me to include those blues notes. 

So the question is - am I about to make a mistake learning these positions with these fingerings and should I go ahead and learn Justin's suggested fingerings shown on this lesson instead?

(http://www.motosportsdesign.com/stevest/MinorPent.jpg)
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: stitch101 on March 10, 2014, 01:46:53 am
Don't waste your time learning dots. Learn the intervals see my post 5 or 6 before this one. it lays out
the intervals. once you know the intervals the dot will make way more sense.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Borodog on March 10, 2014, 02:23:04 pm
Steve,

I don't understand; The blue notes are included in that diagram already?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: TB-AV on March 10, 2014, 02:52:06 pm
am I about to make a mistake learning these positions with these fingerings

Pos1 = No
Pos2 = Yes --- I would play low E as 2 4  and reach up 1 fret on a string for a 1 1 4
Pos3 = No
Pos4 = No
Pos5 = No


Do This
Quote
Don't waste your time learning dots. Learn the intervals see my post 5 or 6 before this one. it lays out the intervals. once you know the intervals the dot will make way more sense.

BUT.. Also see the 'Positions' as ACTUAL CHORD SHAPES.

IOW... Position 3 = C Shape Chord ( some will name / argue it is C minor shape but it's basis is C SHAPE ). this may/will have a determination as to how you will play the notes.

Also... consider that the fingering is to facilitate the playing of the scales so as to learn the notes. In practice, you may use that fingering but will probably find you use other fingerings. This is where people fall apart when they learn the scale steps and chord shapes because they have these two patterns and can't play between them. They need to be in one box or the other and can't 'tie them together'. Obviously if you tie them together you will be using a completely different fingering for any given strings.

But at the end of the day.... no you are not going to hurt anything.... just don't think that is the end of the line. There is actually a tunnel up around the bend and way back inside is a dim light if you keep moving forward. Pack a lunch.... it's a pretty long walk.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Steve St.Laurent on March 10, 2014, 03:05:30 pm
Steve,

I don't understand; The blue notes are included in that diagram already?

They are included in my diagrams - they are the circles with white in the center.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Borodog on March 10, 2014, 03:12:28 pm
Ah; they look good to me. How are they different from Justin's?
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Dr Winterbourne on March 10, 2014, 06:36:11 pm
The Blues Lead course is a good way to practice fingering in all five positions, ooh err,  using them, and changing between them.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Steve St.Laurent on March 11, 2014, 12:51:13 am
The Blues Lead course is a good way to practice fingering in all five positions, ooh err,  using them, and changing between them.

Thanks for that!  I actually had the Blues Lead Course sitting here (bought it as part of a blues package that Justin used to sell) - I just hadn't gotten around to working through it (forgot I had it actually).  Went through about 8 chapters of it tonight and had a blast with it.  I'm going to be mixing it up though.  I plan on learning the positions of the minor pentatonic (along with the blues scale using the fingerings on the charts I posted here) using the same method I used to learn the major scale (from Justin's master the major scale - it worked VERY well for me).  While doing that I'll also be doing the lead course to help learn the "language".

I'm also taking lessons again with a great blues guitarist here in town.  I took lessons from him for about a year and a half before I got very sick a little over a year ago.  My health is finally getting to where I have some extra energy and time and am able to put some serious effort into my guitar playing again.  I've been playing a good bit over the last year but most of it has just been for fun playing and performing (I'm in a church band) - I just didn't have the energy on a consistent basis to be able to do regular practice (sometimes I'd go a few weeks only being able to play in church).

Thanks for the input all.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Steve St.Laurent on March 11, 2014, 12:54:12 am
How are they different from Justin's?

If you compare them to the charts on this lesson ( http://justinguitar.com/en/SC-002-MinorPentatonicScale.php ) you'll see that I shifted some fingers off by one (using 1 and 3 instead of 2 and 4 or vice versa) so that the blues notes were right in the pattern in all cases.  I figured by doing that I could learn the two scales in one and would speed up being able to link them together and see them as one big pattern on the fretboard.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Borodog on March 11, 2014, 01:00:25 am
Steve, I hope you make a full and speedy recovery.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: murrayotl on March 17, 2014, 12:19:02 am
Hi Newbie here.

I'm learning pentatonic scale forms. Is there a way to learn the lowest the form can be played?

Like E can be 1st fret.
                                                Thanks John
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: TB-AV on March 17, 2014, 12:35:26 am
The shapes are moveable. If you play E shape at fret 1 you are playing F minor pent.
Title: Re: SC-002 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale
Post by: Dr Winterbourne on March 17, 2014, 07:11:02 pm
Hi Newbie here.

I'm learning pentatonic scale forms. Is there a way to learn the lowest the form can be played?

Like E can be 1st fret.
                                                Thanks John

I do not quite understand your question, but if you learn the minor pentatonic properly, then you will be able to answer it for yourself.

On this site, I think the best way to learn the pentatonic, the shapes, all over the neck, and how to use it, more importantly, is to  do the Blues Lead course. It totally familiarized me with the A minor pentatonic and its 5 positions, and made me feel completely comfortable soloing anywhere on the neck,using only the minor pentatonic. It is a good course to go through, from a theory and a practical perspective.

After you finish the course and know A minor everywhere, and know all the shapes, it is up to you to teach yourself, using the same method, all of the other keys. After a few, it all becomes clear.

That is what I would do, anyway, if I wanted to learn the minor pentatonic
Title: Minor pentatonic scale
Post by: lolgamer on April 29, 2018, 03:25:27 pm
Should I put my hand on the bridge while doing pentatonic scale?and also should i put my hand on bridge when strumming?

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Title: Re: Minor pentatonic scale
Post by: joueur de guitare on April 29, 2018, 03:57:13 pm
No, and no.

You need to keep your hand moving freely when you're strumming.
Title: Re: SC-301 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale: Essential Information
Post by: Rossco01 on April 29, 2018, 06:06:00 pm
The only reason youll ever rest your hand on the bridge is when youre doing muted strumming. If you feel the need try using your little finger for support on the body when finger picking.
Title: Re: SC-301 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale: Essential Information
Post by: close2u on April 29, 2018, 08:08:45 pm
I rest my hand on the bridge - it might be a bad habit but I make it work for me.
Far too many years of embedding to undo.
I tried little finger for anchoring a few times and it just didn't stick.
Title: Re: SC-301 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale: Essential Information
Post by: rohit_nsk on May 11, 2019, 03:48:06 pm
While playing with metronome is there any guideline like Major scale.

Thanks,
Rohit
Title: Re: SC-301 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale: Essential Information
Post by: close2u on May 11, 2019, 05:05:33 pm
@ rohit ...

what guideline do you seek?

Play the scale with a metronome at different bpm, slow at first until you have it right then speed up.
Title: Re: SC-301 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale: Essential Information
Post by: rohit_nsk on May 12, 2019, 07:08:57 am
Thanks Close2U.

Like for major scale - practicing scales with a metronome if done correctly with 4 notes between each metronome click you will always arrive back on the root note on the beat, every bar.

Is there any guidelines so that I will check I have not missed any beat.

Thanks,
Rohit
Title: Re: SC-301 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale: Essential Information
Post by: close2u on May 12, 2019, 09:34:01 am
Well there are 12 notes - 2 x 6 strings - which is divisible by 4 so that should work for you ... apart from when you play the scale on repeat and only play the top-most note once which means 11 ... but if you keep it going it should create multiples of 4 to fit with your metronome.

Also - use the metronome differently.
Play only 1 or 2 notes per click and then you don't need to think in terms of multiples of 4 to arrive back on the click.
Title: Re: SC-301 • The Minor Pentatonic Scale: Essential Information
Post by: rohit_nsk on May 12, 2019, 01:14:29 pm
Thanks Close2U..