Author Topic: Translation of Justin addressing the audience ("you")  (Read 3323 times)

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Offline simonlehman

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Translation of Justin addressing the audience ("you")
« on: September 02, 2012, 02:35:13 pm »
Sorry for the many new topics, but I think it keeps it a bit more organized this way.

Another thing that I found somewhat hard to decide how it should be translated was the "you" Justin uses to address the audience. It can be either translated as "du" (I don't think a formal "Sie" fits Justin's style) or "ihr", that is, it can be understood as addressing just a single person watching the video or addressing all the people who are watching it (like a teacher talking in a group lesson). To me, it initially sounded more like a "du", but a some points, Justin says something like "... many of you will ...", which can only be translated as "ihr"/"euch" and thus, I think, all the other "yous" have to be translated that way.

This of course also applies to all verbs, which have to be put in the proper form, that is "2. Person, Plural".

So, do you think that using this form everywhere is right or do you think Justin "switches" between two forms (which is a bit weird, because the english language does not really allow to differentiate between the two)?

Offline jacksroadhouse

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Re: Translation of Justin addressing the audience ("you")
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2012, 02:54:29 pm »
"Ihr" in that context is used nowadays mostly by people who try to avoid deciding on "du" or "sie", which (no offence to anybody doing this) I find a littlepathetic. It's like that infamous "man" in the German language. And on a YT video, you'd be primarily adressing a single person, this is not a classroom situation. Imho ;)

I'd say, "du" is the proper form for something like this, so I wouldbn't go down that road, unless the term is clearly meant as plural (like in your example), in which case it would of course have to be "ihr" or "euch". It may not always be clear what J meant at that moment, but I'd still prefer "du" when it's clearly singular.

Offline simonlehman

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Re: Translation of Justin addressing the audience ("you")
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2012, 04:34:57 pm »
I don't know if it is even possible to use "ihr" to avoid deciding on "du" or "sie". "Ihr" is just as informal as "du" (at least to my ears), it is just the plural form of it, while "sie" is the formal address of a single person or a group, as there is no difference between the singular and plural form. Maybe it is just my personal use of it, however, I am teaching some classes (not music related) and depending on the audience, I am using either "ihr" or "sie". Addressing a group of adults with "ihr" would sound really weird (if I don't really know them). It would just as weird as addressing a single person with "du" if I don't really have a reason for doing so.

So, yeah, this is really the reason why I brought this up. Some people hear "you" as "du", some would hear it as "ihr"/"euch", some would hear it as "sie" (which I doubt in this case, but you never know ;) ). I find it weird to translate you as "du" everywhere and then switch to "ihr" just where I can not use "du" anymore. Just as an example from the lesson I just translated, first with only using "ihr":

Quote from: Stufe 8 Übungsplan (Gitarren Lektion BC-189) Gitarre für Anfänger Stufe 8
Ihr habt es geschafft! Ihr seid am Ende von Stufe 8.

Es liegt nur noch eine Stufe vor euch.

Die schlechte Nachricht ist,
dass auf dieser Stufe viel zu tun ist

das ist ein Übungsprogramm von
bis zu 50 Minuten pro Tag.

Nun, für viele von euch wird das zu viel sein

also könnt ihr das auch gerne halbieren

so seid ihr bei zwei 25 Minuten Übungsprogrammen

die ihr täglich wechselt.

...

Now with using "ihr" only where necessary:

Quote from: Stufe 8 Übungsplan (Gitarren Lektion BC-189) Gitarre für Anfänger Stufe 8
Du hast es geschafft! Du bist am Ende von Stufe 8.

Es liegt nur noch eine Stufe vor dir.

Die schlechte Nachricht ist,
dass auf dieser Stufe viel zu tun ist

das ist ein Übungsprogramm von
bis zu 50 Minuten pro Tag.

Nun, für viele von euch wird das zu viel sein

also kannst du das auch gerne halbieren

so bist du bei zwei 25 Minuten Übungsprogrammen

die du täglich wechselt.

...

While in the beginning it does not really matter how it is translated (and I initially started with using "du"), the mixing of "ihr" and "du" at the end of this example sounds not right to me. I know, some people use "du" even when addressing a group or as replacement for an undefined "man", but I don't know if I like that style ;) So, it's probably just me "hearing" it in a different way. It might also be that way, because Justin uses "we" a lot, which also gives me the feeling he is talking about a larger group... but well, that again is only me and it is perfectly fine to say "we" when doing a 1-on-1 lesson.

Are there other translators around who want to state their opinion on this matter?

Offline Cars10

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Re: Translation of Justin addressing the audience ("you")
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2012, 08:42:35 pm »
Are there other translators around who want to state their opinion on this matter?
Well, yes, me again ;-)

I was thinking about this to, when doing some check of a translation where someone switched beween "du" and "ihr" several times.

Well, to me it would be more fitting if Justin adresses me directly. As jacksroadhouse stated, in a YT video is most probably almost al the time adressing a single person.

Your example is not so missfitting I think.
In the beginning Justin talks to the person in front of the PC and than he referes to the mayority of people doing the course.

I have been trying to suggest a "better" translatin.
But after starring on both of your suggestions for a while I think both of them will work.
The first one switches from adressing a single peron to adressing several but it make sens because of the reference to "many of you" (or what ever it was in the original).
The second just switches back again faster.

Anyway, what wold Mark Twain have done with this? ;-)

Regards,

 Cars10
In the end it's all Country Cash!

Offline simonlehman

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Re: Translation of Justin addressing the audience ("you")
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2012, 09:52:02 pm »
Hey, good to have someone else around.

Ok, so it starts to feel like I am the only one hearing it as if Justin is talking to a group of people. But let me try to convince you anyway ;)

What I wanted to illustrate with my second example is the following: When talking to someone, it is pretty much impossible to switch to "ihr" just for one part of a sentence or even one whole sentence. Imagine someone is talking to you and no one else is in the room. The person says "Dein neues Übungsprogramm wird bis zu 50 Minuten lang sein". So far, nothing is weird. Now, the person adds "Für viele von euch wird das aber zu viel sein". I bet you start wondering to whom the person is talking now, because you actually thought that this person was only talking to you. The only way to express something like that would be not to use "ihr", but say something like "Für die meisten ist das aber zu viel". This way, you are not addressing anyone directly, but making a general remark.

So, this is what got me to the point that I am hearing Justin addressing a group of people. And I am not even sure about the YouTube argument. Are people who record themselves to post on YT commonly behave as if they talk to a single person only? I have also seen it the other way around and, imho, it also makes more sense to me. I mean you are posting a video on a platform visited by millions of people a day and most of the time, you are also intending to reach many of them. Why would you talk like you were talking with only one of them? Of course, it is possible to do it that way and there are also many who do, but I would not assume this for everyone. Especially when someone like Justin is recording a video, as he knows that he will talk to a bigger audience and many people watch his videos.

But anyway, I think if most people prefer to be addressed individually, that is fine too. In that case, however, I would suggest to never use "ihr" and use some "general remark" kind of thing (like in the example above). It just feels strange when someone switches just briefly to addressing a group of people and then continues to talk only to me.

Offline Sorgenfrei

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Re: Translation of Justin addressing the audience ("you")
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2012, 04:09:10 pm »
Hey there,

I had the same problems with this translation of "you" in a video and made a comment about it.
Personally, I prefer the translation with "du". In my opinion, Justin is facing one person in front of the screen, so it's like an individual lesson between two persons. The usage of "du" fits better to this kind of atmosphere. Although "Ihr" doesn't sound wrong either, i would prefer "du".
I think we agree, that "Sie" is not correct in this context?


Greets

Simon

Offline simonlehman

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Re: Translation of Justin addressing the audience ("you")
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2012, 09:43:45 pm »
Ok, I give up ;)

But can we at least agree on not using "ihr" at all and translate phrases like "many of you" to "die meisten".