Author Topic: Stage 2 songs.  (Read 6277 times)

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Online close2u

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Stage 2 songs.
« on: August 11, 2011, 11:34:18 am »
Please use this thread for general questions about Stage 2 songs.

As and when video lessons are posted, go to this section for questions on those specific songs.

 :)

Online close2u

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Re: Stage 2 songs.
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2011, 11:35:09 am »
[mod edit - this post contains Q&As about A Girl Like You by Edwyn Collins, originally started by underduraltension.]

Hi everybody,

I'm new to the guitar so please be patient.  I'm trying figure out the chord changes and strumming for this song (mod edit - A Girl Like You - Edwyn Collins).  Is it Am 4 strums, followed by Dm 2 stums and Em 2 strums?  I suspect that this corresponds to the vocal section "I've never known a girl like you before".  For the following set of chord changes (Am, Dm , and back to Am), is this played for the next vocal section (Now just like in a song from days of yore) or is it to be played between the vocals?  Thanks in advance for your help.

hi there

yes sounds bout right to me Am 4  yes, then you are splitting the other but remembering it's 1st chord D D an 2nd chord your coming on the up  like U miss U D on the next chord .. and the bit after the singing is were the vocal break is if you listen to the song so you are correct then the sequence repeats



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Re: Stage 2 songs.
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2011, 11:55:27 am »
[mod edit - this post contains Q&As about Natural Mystic originally started by chix2.]


the pattern shows that you go up on the actual beats 2 & 4, that is really hard to do an i always thought you went down on the beat an as the song is reggae i thought it would be on the & off beats.

even with the constant hand moving that's hard to pull off to come up on the 2 beat an 4 made even harder by the fact your not playing on beat 1 or 3...

can you confirm that the patterns correct or should it be on the &'s

thank you


had a listen to the song and it's definitely on beats 2 and 4.
Might help if you ignore the &s and almost treat it like 2/4 time (what the "tap, up-strum" example seems to imply)
1  2  3  4
\/ /\ \/ /\


thanks tourni ;)

yes thinking of it as 2/4 brilliant idea thank you that makes it much simpler to comprehend in my head an to play...

bump up for tourni on the "applaud" there for saving  my sanity (well what little i have left anyway) ever depleting hehe

thanks again

I don't have the book and don't know if maybe Justin has written a solo rendition for Natural Mystic which requires that you upstrum on even beats but that is not how Bob played it.

Then again with the whole band the guitar part is very simple. It's just two down-strums per measure.

Now the strums are on 2 and 4 but it's not a good idea to start learning to count 2/4 time. It's 4/4 time. People try to take this short cut with 6/8 time as well and simply count it as 3/4. It's not a good idea and they are not the same.

Again, I'm not sure what rendition Justin has done but if you are playing the simple "skank" on 2 and 4 try this.

count 1 2 3 4  just dead on 1 2 3 4

Strum down on 2 and tap your pickguard on 3 strum down on 4 and tap pickguard on 1 strum down on 2 and tap on 3.

That will get your hand arm into the correct speed and after a couple times you can for get rid of the tap if you like.

Now if Justin's version adds some other stuff that requires the 2 on the upstroke that's a different story but you still should figure out just where each beat is and not try to subdivide the whole thing.

I don't think I have ever seen Bob use accented upstrokes. Even the manner in which he held his hand/pick is not conducive to upstrokes.

Same for most other roots Reggae players.

But again, even if Justin has written this for upstroke which is more of  Ska thing, you still should be able to align yourself with the rhythm and count 1 2 3 4 and should spend some time doing that. Speed up or slow down until the count is right.



i hear ya TB

1st of all its a stage 2 song so for first time real beginners yes 4 down strums were keeping it simple but justin suggests if your playing with a band or with the record a nice suggested touch is to get that groove of the 2 and 4 beats being up strums an its cool gives a definitive vibe

i just typed out in gp6 a simple vibe rhythm like were talking an it dose sound very cool, i then added second guitar electric doing simple down down but the first down ghost noted. i find it helps me if i'm stuck with something to write it out an see how it should be an can with such program here how its playing i use it gp6 as very useful tool to assist with my learning

yes i hear you TB on the other thing too, but sometimes for thing to click in i think we sometime need to let it sink in a little first simply before counting other wise.. i to in the beginning  said counted 6/8 as  3/4 but now i don't i count properly but it helped me big time to understand it doing so at fist .. it just when something new sometime it just helps to think of it a little different even thou the  2 are so very different

thank for the input TB

most songs in the book are adapted for the beginner cause that's primarily an purpose who its aimed at but loads have got it me included who is not necessarily a novice beginner so there are added bits in that justin suggest which gives the book longevity to go back and add things or if they have a jam buddy.. the book is awesome.

@ TB  interesting about saying ups more ska?, i would definitely thought reggae was off beat an upstrums too. but hey ho neither style is that familiar to me in the playing field sense..


got it it thanks TB, count 1 2 3 4 tap my foot  but as i count instead of coming down on the beat i come up its just like reversing everything like windmill going in reverse lol ..anyway i get it its cool.. sometimes i feel like i'm in the dark an really dumb then all sudden a light goes on an bingo..


Exactly!!

Watch this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkndVzfOeRc

In fact turn the sound off and count.

Peter Tosh played in a very similar fashion.

If you want to keep that whole beginners strumming / arm moving thing you need to make the movement bigger or move your arm faster and make a non-strum on 1 and 3. Otherwise you will have to do the stiffer down up2 down up4.

If this were anything but Reggae I would say stick to the down up2 but I think you will get the Reggae "feel" better by paying close attention to what Bob is doing.


interesting yes was watching an counting defintely on the 2 and 4 but his motion is clearly down down you can clearly see it...some food for thought there  TB cheers

it just goes to show its on the beats but cause of the short almost staccato quickness of it an stopping it gives a sense of uneveness to it an that sounds very cool
 8)


Quote
intrestin yes was watching an counting defently on the 2 and 4 but his motion is clearly down down you can clearly see it...some food for thought ther  TB cheers

Just remember that that is a very laid back song. So you will just get the, what appears to be a single stacatto down strum.

In reality the 1 and 3 are being counted when his hand rests by the pickguard. That's why I wanted you tap you pick guard.

Now to vary things up a bit after you get that 2 and 4 groove going try this......

2 & 3 & 4
D U D   D

But let the & 3 just be on two highest strings. You will feel it rather than actually need to count it. Just throw it in every 8 measures or so. So you guitar will sound like Skank-chicka  Skank

Now with that in mind..... when you strum the way Bob is doing it, if you look close you will see his hand doesn't just stop for a beat. It's still making "micro movements" so to speak that are actually keeping the time.

Again, you can throw all this out window if the song is arranged for up-strums on the 2. but you should be able to sit down with any song and given the time signature be able to get the correct counting figured out.



cheers again TB

well its all good i like to mix things up a little anyway so no harm in doing bit of the 2 4 an that rhythm too,i was trying it out acoustic panned right electric panned bit left, the acoustic doing just the 2 4 an the electric doing the D U D D sounded really good

its good first of all to get good vibe going but then its also cool to experiment an make things your own put my own little stamp on it

so "applaud" for you to TB thank you

Offline Porpoise

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Re: Stage 2 songs.
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2011, 07:43:30 pm »
Hey,

Can anyone help me with the strumming of the middle part in "Twist and shout" (A D E D A D E D )?

I just started out the beginner course and recieved the songbook a few days ago. Although Justin forbid me to do anything but downstrumming for now, I tried the fancy strumming patern given on page 43 for this song and for the first time, it actually sounded like something I could play while other people are in the same room.  I really wonder what the proper strumming for the middle part is.

Just to show I tried a bit myself before rushing to the forum, I think the first 5 strums go:

A       D      E
D D    D U    D

Thanks alot!

Offline old-and-in-the-way

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Re: Stage 2 songs.
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2011, 09:21:39 pm »
Justin has a twist and shout video that works up from open ADE with a capo, through open DGA to barre chords and covers the various strumming patterns that work, from all down to something closer to the Beatles' cover.

IIRC, it's something like this (but look up the vid to be sure -- it sounds right to me as I strum it here, but that means NOTHING):

Code: [Select]
A   D  E
D D DU UDUDUDUDU

Offline old-and-in-the-way

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Re: Stage 2 songs.
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2011, 06:57:27 am »
Huh.  Now I have the book to hand it seems the rhythm in question is:

Code: [Select]
A   D  E
D D DU U UDUDUDU
1 2 3 4 1 2 3 4

(I'm pretty sure I have that right and that the E starts on the last '&' of the AD bar, but again, just because I thimk I'm right doesn't mean I am right ;-) )


Am I even answering the question  that you asked?   Probably not  :-\

Offline Porpoise

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Re: Stage 2 songs.
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2011, 09:22:38 pm »
Well actually, I was wondering what the strumming patern was for the middle part that goes:

A D   E D   A D   E D
A D   E D   A D   E

as shown in the book, just above the "aah aah aah" part. If i'm not mistaken, there's no strumming patern given in the book for this middle part.

Offline old-and-in-the-way

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Re: Stage 2 songs.
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2011, 11:18:20 pm »
Ah.  Try all down 8th notes.

Offline Name Badges

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Re: Stage 2 songs.
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2011, 08:41:43 am »
from all down to something closer to the Beatles' cover.Justin has a twist and shout video that works up from open ADE with a capo, through open DGA to barre chords and covers the various strumming patterns that work,

Offline pomfritz

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Re: Stage 2 songs.
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2011, 05:58:37 pm »
Maybe a stage 2 on chords but singing those lyrics!  I had to have a litte smoke to loosen up enough to feel the emotion in the song.  Still working matching th
elyrics to the chords in the later verses.   :)

Offline bluepeter5178

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Re: Stage 2 songs.
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2011, 01:43:46 pm »
Lay Down Sally -  In verese 3 - the first line has been missed - It should read as follows:

I long to see the morning light etc

Offline Elsie

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Re: Stage 2 songs.
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2013, 04:36:09 pm »
I hope it's right to post here rather than start a new topic as the warning message said when I clicked 'reply' since noone had posted on the thread for at least 120 days. Anyway...

I'm a complete beginner just starting stage 2 songs, and it occurred to me when trying to follow 'Wild Thing' as written in the songbook that I didn't know for sure how many times to strum for each chord written, so I am after some help interpreting the music as it is laid out. 

I originally thought it was simply 4 strums between each bar line (when there are bar lines) and 4 strums per chord written, unless of course two chords were put inside bar lines and then I assumed it would be evenly split two strums per chord. However, using Wild Thing as an example, the first E chord in the 'Intro' is strummed 6 times by Justin in his video rather than 4 despite being between bar lines, and then after the intro in the songbook all the bar lines disappear so you are just left with chords. How do you know how many strums each chord represents?

I dont try to sing-along as I'm just trying to focus on learning the guitar first as Justin recommends. Surely you shouldn't have to say the words anyway to know how many times to strum if the music is written out a certain way to define it?

Hopefully I'm just missing something fundamental with respect to reading the music as it is laid out.

Any help would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 06:47:15 pm by Elsie »

Offline stitch101

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Re: Stage 2 songs.
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2013, 10:38:41 pm »
At the 2 minute mark of the video Justin shows the easiest way to strum using 2 down strums per chord
You have to start slow and work you way up to speed.
As for the intro he is strumming the E 4 time then 2 time to keep the beat.
You have to keep the beat 1234 1234 ect.  He's playing  AADD EEEE EE

Offline Elsie

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Re: Stage 2 songs.
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2013, 11:24:58 pm »
Hi

Yes, I follow the song when watching the video, but I shouldnt really have to watch the video to be able to read the music in the book, especially as there are songs in the book with no video. Shouldn't the book be telling the reader exactly how many strums per chord for every chord if you are using it to play a song? I thought it must do this and maybe I was missing something?

Re the intro, are you saying it should be 6 strums on the first E even though the book doesnt show this (it shows 4) or are you saying Justin is adding two extra strums that wouldn't ordinarily be there music wise, but he's improvising or doing it rather than counting the appropriate silent space before the next chord?

Sorry if I'm missing what you are saying, but I'm still not sure I understand if the songbook does tell you the strum numbers for every chord for every song or not, and if it does how do you know the number of strums if there are no bar lines?

BR

Offline stitch101

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Re: Stage 2 songs.
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2013, 11:47:52 pm »
I don't have the book so I can't comment on it. I watched the video on Justin's main sight and that's how
he plays it.  If you really want to learn guitar you have to use your ears more than your eyes. Justin teach
a lot of easy ways to get you started and as you improve you'll be able to add mare complex strumming
patterns to your music.

From what I've seen of Justin's book he shows the beat(timing)

Quote
Shouldn't the book be telling the reader exactly how many strums per chord for every chord if you are using it to play a song?

No music is about feeling it's not just strumming up and down. And you shouldn't use the book to play
the song. You use the book to learn the chords and how it's put together.
Then you play the song with out the book. This will become clearer as you get better and start learning
more strumming patterns.